Comments on: Microsoft, Adobe squabble over PDF

Breakdown in talks over the use of Adobe's PDF in Office leaves Microsoft bracing for an antitrust battle in Europe.

[jeffhesser]

sounds like a missed opportunity

If MS could offer a seperate Office product that was more expensive but offered PDF editing abilities then I can't beleive they would pass that up. It is just one more opportunity to make Office more powerful and adobe can fade further into the background. Seems like it would be a solid step toward their end goal of world domination.

[Tanjore]

Open office offers PDF capabilities why not MS Office

Why is adobe complaining about microsoft offering to save the documents in pdf format?!!!

Isn't this an opportunity for Adobe?

Open Office allows users to save documents as PDF!!! and adobe does not have any problem with it.

[Stan Johnson]

world domination?

Both these companies are too big for their britches. They are both greedy and both want to dominate the world. I use Adobe products more but agree with Microsoft on this. MS should be able to add the PDF capabiltity for free. Especially that it has been there in past versions. Adobe will only be hurting their PDF format because office users with need to choose a different option than PDF.

[SystemsJunky]

So Its Okay for Apple

To integrate PDF within its OS, free of charge. But MS putting it in office is Taboo? Okay whatever...Looks like metro will become the standard document format for windows then. Thats OK, Id rather use Metro than the buggy, slow, resource hog AKA Acrobat...

[technewsjunkie]

Apple?! How did they get in here?

Who says Apple isn't paying a fee for pdf integration?? Point me to that info please.

[sunergeos]

Yes, it is OK because

Apple is not a convicted monopolist and Microsoft is. Being a monopoly requires that they have to play be slightly different rules than all others. And the conviction means that the competitors are allowed to enforce those rules.

Besides, I'm not convinced that Apple does not pay royalties.

Apple does pay?

OS X uses the PDF technologies for much of its display
technologies and the license it from Adobe. Save as PDF is but one
of it's uses.

[dansterpower]

You'll Have to Use PDF

You may get to use Metro a bit, but you'll have to use PDF as
well -- here's why.

PDF will remain and grow stronger as the king because it is the
defacto standard from which all corporate documents are
produced for print production. Some companies will export to
metro as well, but time and resources will make this the
exception.

PDF is far from "slow and buggy," by the way, and I would know
-- I build and test about 100 pdf files weekly.

DJO

[technewsjunkie]

Need more details!

Is Adobe saying no free pdf Reader in Office unless MS charges for an editable version??

In any case, this is goingto be a battle royal.
I'm so sick of MS trying to own everything!

[Riyan.M]

OpenOffice does the same

OpenOffice has this feature since their first release. It can convert the Open Document files to PDF from within the program without installing anything else. SImilarly, you can convert the slide shows to Flash (swf) files. I am not sure if they have a deal with Adobe, but since OpenOffice is free, I assume they don't.

I see this integrated functionality as a good step for Microsoft. People will get functionality of two programs for the price of one. Besides, there are a lot of freeware programs available which can convert any Office document to PDF. for example Primo PDF. So even if Microsoft doesn't include PDF capability within Office, people can install these freewares and make PDF files for free (though a lot of people are not aware of these freewares)

Apart from that, a lot of higher end features, like PDF with videos, PDF with fillable forms etc can only be done by adobe.

Let's see where this lawsuit goes.

[Stan Johnson]

Adobe needs to get a clue...

Stop being greedy!

[unknown unknown]

RE

Companies are out to make money. Microsoft has a proven track record of being a bad actor in the market. They licensed the right to build a JVM from Sun and included proprietary extensions, that is until Sun sued them. They use their dominate position to hijack technology, I can't say I blame Adobe for not wanting to grant Microsoft the ability to use PDFs.

[amigabill]

Huh?

MS thinks Adobe will sue for antitrust because MS won't seperate Adobe's thing and charge extra for it?

I'd imagine that Adobe gets paid either way. How is it better for Adobe that the consumer needs to know to specifically buy PDF support? How is it better for Adobe that the consumer then feels he or she must pay extra for it, and buy yet another addon to get it?

This is nuts. I think MS is goofy for assuming Adobe will do this, and I think Adobe would be goofy if MS's assumption is actually true. I don't pay extra for or have to obtain PDF export support seperately from OpenOffice...

[samkass]

FUD

This story is complete FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) on Microsoft's part. Creating PDF documents doesn't require Adobe's permission-- the file format is publicly available. It's possible Microsoft wanted to license Adobe's PDF library for inclusion in their software, though, for which they should no doubt pay a fair price.

I sense that Microsoft is just trying to create an excuse and sympathy for their own PDF-like technology they're introducing in Vista/Office next year.

[Tanjore]

Microsoft needs ADOBE - NO FUD

ADOBE PDF is accepted as open document standard!!!(according to atleast Masschusets).

Microsoft PDF-like file format is not a open document standard!!!

[umbrae]

Who Cares...

You should not be using Microsoft Office anyway. Always better to use as little MS software as possible.

[pdude]

Message has been deleted.

[Stan Johnson]

That depends...

...if you live in the REAL world.

[webbbaron]

Everyone should charge

If they want Microsoft to charge, they should require all apps to charge.

[fafafooey]

Let's face facts

Adobe does not want Microsoft to include a Save as PDF feature in Office because that's the primary reason why people buy the full version of Adobe Acrobat.

If Office includes this feature, a large majority of users will have no need to buy Adobe Acrobat, and it will hit Adobe hard in the pocket.

Once again, it becomes Microsoft's responsibility to provide for the sales/usage of another company's software...

The PDF format is either open or its not. If Adobe can stop them from writing PDF's, who's next?

First they came for Microsoft, but I didn't speak up because I was a Microsoft-hater. Then they came for the...

[Secesh]

OpenOffice doesn't have PDF

Not like Microsoft wants it, anyways. To Save a file as a PDF using OpenOffice, you have to "Export as PDF". Microsoft wants to include PDF in the "Save As" drop down box in their upcoming release.

This to me is the critical difference -- Adobe does not want people to do a straight "save as".

[rjdohnert]

Exact same thing

Although it might seem different "export" and "save as" are the exact same thing although terminology is different. Microsoft does not allow users to edit straight PDF files.

[Mendz]

Adobe Shaken

Adobe opens up PDF.

Adobe maintains Acrobat which sales rely on PDF.

Adobe wants broad PDF use in the market.

Now Adobe wants to prevent Microsoft to natively support PDF in Microsoft products.

What obviously surprise those in the know is that Microsoft is potentially Adobe's biggest partner given that Microsoft has a global market share that can definitely promise the broadest use of PDF.

Apparently, Adobe's interest is focused on protecting Acrobat's sales and maintaining their competitive stand with PDF supporting partners and customers. Are they shaken by the "PDF killer" potential of XPS? Or is it because Adobe's licensing model for PDF is not good enough to work with (or earn enough from) Microsoft?

Right now, sadly, the open standard PDF backfires Adobe.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...

[jmhmaine]

Poor Integration with Plug-in

I've been using the PDF plug-in since Office 97 and I have had issues with the setup and integration of the plug-in with every version, including Office 2003(Acrobat versions 4-7). This wasn't isolated to one PC, this was on 6 different PCs, from Windows 98 to XP.

I use it frequently, and every time I click the PDF icon I wonder if it will work. I've had to reinstall countless times. If I install a service pack or security update related to office, it will likely require a reinstall of the PDF Plug-in.

So long story -- short, life would be much better if this was integrated as a "Save As" or "Export To" option in offfice. I. as well as most users see the benefit to the PDF format, read-only, universal readable document format.

But Adobe needs to realize that after 4 versions of PDF plug-ins for Office, they don't have what it takes to design and implement a smooth plug-in.

[chukieb]

PDF made easy

Two quick comments:
1. Why does anyone care about this. in OpenOffice you just hit the "export directly as PDF" icon: done

2. You want to print anything from windows directly to pdf? All you need is PDF Creator: http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator/

[chukieb]

http://sourceforge.net/projects/pdfcreator

this is all you need

[ChazzMatt]

Adobe is full of liars

"Adobe publishes the PDF standard in its entirety and makes it available for free, without restrictions, to anyone who cares to use it," Adobe Senior Director of Public Policy Michael Engelhardt wrote last year in a letter to a Massachusetts state senator. "No one needs permission from Adobe to build their own product with the PDF standard."

http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticle.jhtml?articleID=188701361

[booboo1243]

goodbye, Acrobat Standard and Pro

A client asked me to price out some software, including Acrobat. I inlcuded pring for Standard and Pro, along with a note about a free product called PDF Redirect. I asked him what he needed Acrobat for and he said he needed to print PDFs that were to be emailed. He didn't know anything about forms or any other feature Acrobat offers. Needless to say he chose the free PDF printer. If this is a typical Acrobat customer, then expect sales of Acrobat to decrease dramatically as MS adds this functionality to Office/Vista.

[Lex Man]

What's the point in PDF's anyway

I have to admit that I've always hated PDF's. Acobat Reader has always been a horribly slow program and doesn't add anything on top of any other text document except you can't edit them.

[onthesidelines]

Adobe is a bit hypocritical...

Autodesk, the monopoly in the CAD space, includes PDF and its own proprietary format DWF. No comments from Adobe. Hmmmm.

Adobe, the monopoly in PDF sets up OEM deals with other software providers to integrate its own save-as PDF technology in the application, preventing other third-party developers from selling plugins. Hmmmmm.

The government approved PDF as an accepted standard based on Adobe stating that anyone can develop to the PDF specification without restriction. Odd that their licensing agreement reads to the contrary. Did the wool get pulled over the eyes of our Senate? Hmmmmm.

So, where should the antitrust suit begin?