Comments on: Human chips more than skin-deep

Better health care and fraud protection may sound good, but are they worth the potential privacy trade-offs?

Religious Concerns?

Aside from the standard privacy concerns, does anyone else think that Evangelical Christian America will make some connections with the "mark of the beast" mentioned in the book of revelation, which will supposedly one day be required for basic business transactions?

[cutekangaroo]

I agree

Since I was raised with the background of the Christian belief, I
have to disagree with such technology. The beast and the
dragon (I suppose England and US) are apart of this, and with
such detailed prophecy made thousands of years ago, and with
strikingly accurate details of what will happen. The only thing
that it doesn't say is exactly what year or when it suppose to
happen, but there are many warning signs.

And so, in the end, I would rather commit suicide to save my
soul than to have such device ("mark") embedded on me.

For those who do not know what I'm talking about, grab yourself
a bible and read the Revelation (the last section of the 2nd
Testament) before the government decide to change the bible
like Henry once did.

[Jonathan]

Sure, Why not.

They are psycho about everything else about modern society.

[Brian Breeding]

re religious concerns

That is like asking if the Pope is Catholic. Of course the
fundamentalists within any denomination will jump, and already
have, on this news. ( It is after all, not new information) One of
the core psychological features of religious fundamentalism is
the need to be the embattled minority. Throughout history
literalist religious interpreters have always found ?the enemy?,
whether it was the physical manifestation of the devil, the U.N.,
or now, this digital tracking system. Look at the recent news
about fundamentalist churches being, in their words, ?attacked?
for thinly disguised political support from the pulpit. Of course,
?liberal? churches have been found equally guilty, but that fact is
conveniently overlooked by conservative pundits.

[bkm645]

Looks like John from 2000 years ago was right

Revelation 13:16&17: He required everyone ? great and small, rich and poor, slave and free ? to be given a mark on the right hand or on the forehead. And no one could buy or sell anything without that mark, which was either the name of the beast or the number representing his name.

Revelation 16:2: So the first angel left the Temple and poured out his bowl over the earth, and horrible, malignant sores broke out on everyone who had the mark of the beast and who worshiped his statue.

You may think that it will make the world a safer place now, but in the end I would wrather be in the safest of all, with God.

[Jonathan]

OK I've read sci-fi novels that are less

ambiguous about the future. Revelations is to be taken as literally as Shrubs speech?s to the American public. Interpretation is the key yo both and frankly I could probably find reference that talks about a big giant mouse making way for the apocalypse if I try hard enough.

[frankwick]

Very interesting indeed.

We've known for years rhat too much RF radiation can cause cancer. Now, reading the scripture you posted makes me wonder if the "malignant sores" will be caused from the RF?

I don't know much about the Bible. However, I have been reading about Revelation recently and it is amazing (really amazing) how much of it lines up with modern times. From the destruction and rebuilding of Iraq (Babylon), to the fact that no one will be able to purchase something without the 'mark' on their arm.

No one could have had enough insight 2000 years ago to simply make this stuff.

[bugtest]

Mark of the Beast?!

Superstitions abound! These "Stories" were written a few Hundred Years after the Philosiphor Jesus, was killed for being a hereitec. If you believe in the book of Revelation, You may as well believe in Nostrodamus, Sylvia Brown and John Edwards!
Anyone can get a few things right if you give enough wrong answers also.

[Jon N.]

666...

You're right on track Brian. Keep the message goin'! I wonder if the people out there realize just how much code goes into this technology, & that somewhere in it would be encoded a 666. If it is incoded as a number even just once, & any government or institution makes implanting it manditory, then prophesy is then made fact !!! I wonder what the 666th name encoded in the chip is?
Rev. 13:18 says, "Here is wisdom. Let him (or her) who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six."
We'll have a choice to take it or not. Don't take the mark! I'm lookin' for the return of Jesus!

[bkm645]

Thank you

It is good to see that I am not standing alone in this lost world. Let's keep this post going.

Brian Mullins

skin deep indeed...

yes you are right, but this article it talking about an implant that
can't be seen.

the mark of the beast is something that would be visible.

so again... this chip implant is no where near the mark of the
beast.

personally, i would not get it for privacy issues.

Your choice.

When I read the article, a chill went up my back. It was not a chill of Orwellian threats as the article was titled but is was a reminder that we are right on schedule on God’s timetable. It used to be hard to find stories like this describing distant technologies that could be used as the “mark of the beast”. Today it is becoming more and more common.
Do I believe that this particular device is the “mark of the beast” in revelation 13? No, I do not. These devices are still huge in size and would not be able to implanted in the right hand let alone the forehead (imagine an 11mm long pill shape under the skin of the forehead). But, like all good technological products, they will become smaller, faster and cheaper with time. When it becomes small enough to implant in the forehead, look out. But by then it may already be too late.
This product is just part of the on going acclimation process. First it was cats and dogs, next prisoners and terrorists and finally you will have choice of your right hand or your forehead.
Choose wisely.

This is not only an invasion of privacy

Look 2000 years ago it was predicted that this would happen and look what its happening it just proves how far our society has declined that we are this close to the end.

Religious reactions based on fear

I remember growing up being afraid of technology. In church I was taught that credit cards were the mark of the beast. In the past it was social security card. Now its chips implanted in humans. There is nothing that slows social progress more than those who fear that which they do not understand. "There is nothing to fear but fear itself."
Yet western society is based on fear. Christians are taught to fear God. Intellect and reason are not virtues, yet those are the ideals which have promoted a more civil and free society. Religion, on the other hand, has brought nothing but dissention and hatred.
If everyone is tracked, and the tracking is known to everyone, a more open society will be the result. When computers and the internet became popular, people were worried about Big Brother watching them. Yet the internet has had the opposite effect. It is now possible for everyone to communicate, and the government is watched. Imagine if a black person is imprisoned because they were discriminated against. Now imagine a device that says that not only was he not at the scene of a crime, but that it was a white man. This is an extreme example, but it makes a point. Even though technology can be misused, the benefits should not be used out of fear or mistrust.

Rev 13:16 KJV says "in" the hand or "in the forehead"

In the king james version of the bible Rev. 13:16 says "in" the hand, or "in" the forehead. Sounds like verichip to me

[Jonathan]

NO CHANCE IN ****!

Sorry but no way in HELL is anyone going to insert any RFID in me. Pets are fine. Products and goods are fine. My person is NOT fine.

[InetUser]

Hear! Hear!

You got that right!

That's it

I don't wanna to have microchips implanted in my body! Not that i really believe on all that neurotic think about privacy invasion or even about the cancer issue due the RF radiation.
It's very easy to the gorvenment invade your privacy they just need one photografy that they can scan your face that kind of technology is really advanced nowadays.
I just think that implanting a chip in my body is to invasive, i rather prefer use a bracelet or something that i can take off if i want.

[Tex Murphy PI]

Have faith in the government and companies

I can't beleive how fearful everyone is over a simple tracking device!

Can't anyone see how beneficial this life-saving technology can be? It can pinpoint your location in a matter of seconds - so that the government can quickly find you for:
1) Medical Assistance
2) Determining your location in the event of a hostage crisis (1 in 100 million chances)
3) Verification so that you cannot be consorting with anyone deemed to be a terrorist
4) Tracking potential terrorists (though they might have easily removed or nullified their RFID)
5) Used to pinpoint your time/date/location stamps for court (such as if you are accused of murder.

Sure, there are concerns. Menial concerns such as:
1) Unknown cancerous growths due to continuous radiation
2) Overt intrusion of privacy - hey, the government SHOULD know how often you are with your family/spouse/lover/etc.
3) The fact that the RFIDs can be duplicated and used to pin an innocent person at the scene of a crime
4) Any well-funded company can easily set up their own information collecting antennas. Sure the government won't share out the RFIDs, but once a person buys something at a shop, you've pretty much given them your RFID + name + credit card number!

No! I say TRUST your respective government. They need to know what you are doing at all times, and where you are so that they can quickly render "assistance" to you.

Companies and criminals are also bound by a moral code not to hack, impersonate, or tamper with STATIC RFID security measures.

Have faith in the government and companies folks! Because if it is good enought for your dog, Spot, it certainly is good enough for YOU!

[InetUser]

You've got to be kidding!

You've got to be kidding!

Trust the government? Trust big business?

Not on your life.
Not on my life.
Not on my kids life.
Not ever!

[cutekangaroo]

Trust??? Pfft!

Governments lies to us about everything they do. They take hold
of the media and only allow you to hear what they want you to
hear. Half lies and no truth is what it is.

Evil will say anything to tempt you to do what he wants.

Oh, and here's a secret. Those powder anthrax that came about
after 9/11 was developed by the US NAVY, powder anthrax are
not a natural form.

Are you crazy?!?!!!

Ok, I'll give you the benefits such as able to render medical assistance etc... but the consequences far outweight the benefits. You said, "Sure, there are concerns. Menial concerns such as:
1) Unknown cancerous growths due to continuous radiation
2) Overt intrusion of privacy - hey, the government SHOULD know how often you are with your family/spouse/lover/etc.
3) The fact that the RFIDs can be duplicated and used to pin an innocent person at the scene of a crime
4) Any well-funded company can easily set up their own information collecting antennas. Sure the government won't share out the RFIDs, but once a person buys something at a shop, you've pretty much given them your RFID + name + credit card number!

No! I say TRUST your respective government. They need to know what you are doing at all times, and where you are so that they can quickly render "assistance" to you.

Companies and criminals are also bound by a moral code not to hack, impersonate, or tamper with STATIC RFID security measures.

Personally I find the menial concerns more than menial. I find unknown cancerous growths due to radiation unfit for my body. The government has no right to know my every action. We supposedly live where your assumed innocent untill proven guilty. The fact that no matter how advanced the technology is, it can always be hacked, just as everything else is susceptible. As you said, any company could put up antenna's and get your info anyways so whats the use? Trust our government & our major corporations? You've got to be mad. After the unmoral conduct by several of our highest politicians & corporations (such as the Clinton's him & her, Gary Condit, Enron to name a few.) I find trust a very strong word for to use for who & what your suggesting. Then there is that little known 2000 year old document called the Bible, that speaks about this very subject. Kind of makes me think that this is a BAD IDEA! Have you ever needed the government to come & save you? If you did, I bet it took some time before they got there. Now if you get lost out in the woods because your an idiot, thats called natural selection and the government is not my babysitter nor should it be. People don't need a babysitter waiting to save them every time they do something stupid (as you suggest in the benefits section). People need to be responsible for their own actions & suffer the consequences whatever they may be.

The Pyramid of Power

The Military, Big Business, Politics and Media have all being cooperating to bring this one into being smoothly and quietly.

The Carlye group and Citibank Group have secretly masterminded this for awhile and allowed Congress to influence the FDA to approve this to continue their plan for total economic domination and control of world economy. This is modern day slavery engineered by corporate psychopaths.

For more info on the Carlye group and why we are heading into this apocalypse: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3995.htm

Watch out for that Atlantic tsunami engineered by the Pentagon. This is Black magik at its finest.

Why were Bush Senior, Carlye Executives and Bin Laden watching 9/11 in a conference room together? Maybe we should take another look at Enron and see why.

[LAMuffinhead]

haha this is funny.

[kxmmxk]

No chips

The idea of implanting chips in people's bodies is ridiculous. It offers nothing over the stated desire that fingerprints would. A system where you use fingerprints or eye scans for voluntary use would provide all of the benefits, and not necessarily any of the bad side affects.

The problem with chips is they would be on all the time. If they are imbedded there is no way to turn them off. If they are external, they can be stolen.

However, if when you go into a store and use your credit card, they scan your fingerprint or retina, it's voluntary and appropriate. If you pay with cash there is no reason to do either.

It would be appropriate to the situation instead of a continual tracking.

And, by the way, I distrust what companies are going to do with the information way more than what the government will do.

Not only ID

The technology is used not only for identification, but also for movement tracking. It'd be next to impossible to track movement with retina scanners.

Misuse is the biggest concern, chips alone will not be effective.

One item to consider is how secure the technology is from misuse. For example, finger print scanners that do not verify there is a pulse in the finger allow criminals the opportunity to "obtain" the finger and use it separate from the owner. The same can be said for the chips that can be removed from owners.

Identity verification and security will always struggle with two main conserns, storage of data and the ability to block misuse. Many agree that in order for technology like chips to work, they will need to be balanced with bio-authentication of some sort and that the two combined allow for decryption of information.

Good article.

-Anthony Hogan

[Revo]

It will be amazing how many fall for this...

When I first heard of the 'mark of the beast' long ago, I thought it would be more than obvious that people would run fast and far from such a thing. However, since witnessing recent history unfold before my eyes, and even by reading articles such as this one, Christians and non-Christians alike will welcome this new technology with open arms. Why? Fear. The events of 9-11 as well as the threat of future events will cause us to do whatever necessary to be 'safe'. That's one reason, as a Christian, it's critical to understand why we're alive on the earth- to 'die daily', to prepare people for an eternity with Jesus. We surrender to God, trust him and gain all of our sustainance from him. As we do that, fear can't win. Nothing can harm us as we fully trust God- and not man's attempt at guaranteed safety. That's why stories of martyrdom are so amazing- those people value obedience, God and his truth in the face of threat and death.

[cutekangaroo]

you're right!

God said there's nothing to fear. But if we allow fear to enter our
lives, the government will persuade us to use those implants on
us. If we don't fear, we have nothing to worry about death, and I
know that government will soon execute (yes, kill them) those
who refuses.

Its softer now that they only require you to have a social security
number, if you do not have one, either you are an illegal alien or
a terrorist. They'll change that later.

[rodnarms]

It's True

Revelation's was written between 70 - 95 AD. Jesus ascended
into Heaven about A.D. 30. It was written by John, a man who
eyewitnessed Jesus with his own eyes.

Jesus was not a philosopher. He didn't leave the option open to
that. He publicly declared that he and the Father were one and
the same, John 14:7-11. Now what would you think of me if I
proclaimed on here that me and God were one and the same
person, equals.

A decision has to be made about the man who said,

"A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another;
as I have loved you, that you also love one another."

Was Jesus either God in human flesh or a raving madman?

When I look at history EVERY man to declare themself God is
completely devoid of any love and usually ends up going down
in violence, taking all their followars with them. Jesus went down
alone, leaving his followers.

Say if Jesus was a just a man, then how come we have never
seen a man before or after with that much humility, that much
love - willing to get brutally killed, so that every person could be
capable of loving again.

[cutekangaroo]

Uh

You are probably mistaken that Jesus left alone. He left with at
least one of the theives that was crucifixed with Jesus, because
he asked to be forgived and be in paradise with him.

VeriChip human implanted RFID ?Evil--

This is from [e-mail], [e-mail]
email I found on a website

There is a USA based company called Applied Digital Solutions which seems to be intent on selling the creepiest and most threatening versions of RFID tags - ones which are implanted under the human skin.
These VeriChips work on 125KHz which copes better than the High Frequency 13.56MHz or Mobile Phone frequency range (868 - 930 MHz) Ultra High Frequency RFID tags, with absorbtion by the mostly saline liquid human body. Their range is limited, but seems to be sufficient for door scanners. Naturally, although these RFID tags contain a unique serial number, this is not compliant with even the weak EPCglobal standards for privacy, and they are too "stupid" to be "killed" or deactivated even temporarily. Obviously removal of the tags requires another surgical operation.
These so called "security" chips are the 21st century version of permanent cattle brands (indeed the original market for Verichips is for prize cattle and pet cats and dogs) or tattoos.
We find the concept completely unethical, bordering on actually evil. What is there to prevent this technology being used by exploiters of slave labor, pimps and brothel keepers, religious cults, abusive or pedophile parents or police states in order to control the movements of their victims and to prevent escape via actual alarm systems or the fear that "we will track you down if you try to escape" ?
They are being sold to the Latin American and Russian markets, aimed initially to exploit the fears of rich parents who fear that their children may be kidnapped, and who are therefore willing to electronically brand them in the vain hope that this will somehow make it easier to trace kidnap victims.
The alternative market to the forced branding of children who are in no position to object is to electronically brand vulnerable adults, e.g. those with Alzheimer's disease, again, a process likely to happen without fully informed consent. The company is also selling the concept of access to online medical records via the VeriChip RFID serial number.
If we have expressed doubts about the security and privacy implications of the EPCglobal back end "internet of things" databases, then these worries are multiplied by orders of magnitude when it comes to VeriChip databases containing details of children or vulnerable adults with, in some cases their online medical records.
The VeriChip distributor in Mexico Solusat, is proudly claiming links with the Mexican Red Cross for access to Medical Records, and the National Foundation of Investigations of Robbed and Missing Children
Why then, is Solusat not using SSL/TLS session encryption on the website through which the VeriChip RFID tag registration details and medical records can be accessed?
Why is the SQL Server administrator account and password apparently visible to any hacker or corrupt employee, simply by inspecting the HTML source code of this website?
This would be bad enough if the only thing that they were putting at risk was credit card details, but to put Children's details and Medical Records at risk over the internet or to corrupt employees in this way is criminal negligence.
The latest nonsense from the company is VeriPay, an attempt to try to convince people that electronic payments could be safely authorized using their crude technology which does not employ encrypted authentication handshakes, instead of a normal credit card.
Of course, many fundamentalist Christians see RFID technology, but especially VeriChips as the Mark of the Beast:
"Moreover, it caused everyone, great and small, rich and poor, slave and free, to be branded with a mark on his right hand or forehead, and no one was allowed to buy or sell unless he bore this beast's mark, either name or number. (Here is the key; and anyone who has intelligence may work out the number of the beast. The number represents a man's name, and the numerical value of its letters is six hundred and sixty-six.)
(Revelations chapter 13: verses 16-18)"
Any reputable companies deploying RFID tags would be well advised to help get these evil RFID human implants banned, or risk getting tarred with the same brush.

HALF TRUTH

666 In NOT the number of a man. It is THE number of man. The number of man is a social security/other identity numbers.

[MTGrizzly]

Not at that price

Surveillance cameras at every step is bad enough. Now, RFID
chips? At what price security? Not that price.

Given the government's response in unnecessarily severely
limiting personal civil liberties after 9/11, no reasonable person
can really believe the government won't use these devices in
ways that violate basic human rights. Even if the government is
prevented from using these devices, directly, they will get the
data from commercial operators and use it, "for our own good."
Personally, I have never believed, the phrase, "We're from the
government and we're here to help." I see even less reason to
believe that, if they are given a lojack to trace my every move,
they use it for anything positive.

Time to move off the grid.

[mlynch1234]

Too late...

"Time to move off the grid."

It's too late: you already have a SSN (assuming you live in the U.S.).

That number was only for "our own good" too. But look at what SSNs are actually used for today (a HECK of a lot more than providing SS "benefits").

[James Buerge]

"RELIGION" is my concern

It seems that everyone is keen on either quoting superficial
"knowledge" (hear-say) within the "evangelical church", or from
without the organization coming against religion. I understand
the distaste for religious verboseness. It is always empty and
from a conceptual head knowledge and without life and hence
incredable.
What is credable, is a religion free personal experience with the
life that is based entirely upon the tenants of the Bible and
outside of any organized "church system". The gathering of
believers is the church that is within the hearts and souls of
believers.
Also, the Mark of the Beast that brings fear to so many is
foundless. If you are a believer (in my context), then it should
not concern you. There is already a mark upon all believers and
non-believers! Ez 9.4 "... set a mark upon the foreheads of the
men that sigh and that cry ... " Rev 9.4 Hurt only those who ...
"have not the seal of God in their foreheads." The Mark of God
and the Mark of the Beast are manifested by the lives that we
live - our nature coming out of the type of life that we are living.
It is clearly visible to all.
So it doesn't matter. We all are all marked in open witness of all
eternity. An implant is not that which "Marks" us. It is the life
that we live that "tags" us with one of two marks.
Coincidently, I am concerned about my rights of freedom and
privacy and am not interested in the implants nor any of the
other violations of my will. But I realize that I will have to pay the
price and remove myself from system control that will without
question come into existance. Within three to five years it will
be sustantially in place.
Believers are now making decisions and preperations for that
which "will shortly come to pass."

re: religion

my only comment here james is to what you said, "and the Mark
of the Beast are manifested by the lives that we live - our nature
coming out of the type of life that we are living."

as a christian and believer, it is not by the live i live, not by my
actions or works (so that no man can boast,) but by my faith in
God and in Jesus.

=o)

[Not Bugged]

The mark of God

I believe that The Holy Spirit, who lives in the believer and guides them, is the mark of God.

RFID technology could save lives

if the tag were programmed with medical info such as allergic reactions, heart problems, pacemaker... in the event of catastrophic trauma, the rfid tag could be read where a bracelet or some other device could be lost. medical personnel with equipment to read the tags could react more quickly and more accurately.

ivon

[MTGrizzly]

Not quite...

This is a "reason" we are being told RFID is a "good" thing. In 25
years of professional emergency medicine on three different
continents, I can think only one or two instances where knowing
the information supposedly to be supplied by these chips would
have changed the outcome or course of a patient's treatment. In
reality, the majority of the world lives in places where medical
care is largely unavailable. No amount of information is going to
save you when you are bleeding to death from trauma and there
is no surgeon there who can stop the bleeding. In many parts of
the USA, you are much more likely to die becasue of lack of
available medical care than you are because of lack of
information. In large, urban areas, now - without the chip - in
most instances I can obtain the pertinet information promised
by the chips from a medic alert bracelet.

The claim of "Better medical care" due to RFIDs is a falacy. The
manufacturers of these chips, after having amazed themselves
with their perceived technological acumen, are now looking for a
market for their do-dad. In doing so, they have hit on two highly
sensitive areas - children and medical care. Areas they believe
people will adapt their technology without addressing the
overwhelming concerns of individual privacy and civil liberties. It
is not so much the technology of human-implantable RFIDs that
worries me as the incredible breaches of ethics and individual
human rights committed by the manufacturers of RFIDs in the
name of getting rich.

Not yet... wait for the aliens to show up first =o)

It's about the only thing I could imagine that would inspire an entire world to "get together". Faced with a new reality that we are "not alone", people will line up to get these chips. Then (and only then), it will make sense.

[squidburns]

Did you ever stop and think?

Being in technology all these years I cannot believe that anyone would want to have a chip inserted into their body.

Besides health risks and the constant monitoring there is the little problem of TECHNOLOGY BECOMING OBSOLETE! I cannot buy a laptop without it becoming 'old' in two months, why would I want a chip that will have to be 'upgraded' or replaced every two years to meet the current technology trends?

The chips will go from 11mm to 6mmm and then one or two. Then they will have transmitters, encryption, remote programming and updating software and every time there is an upgrade off to the doctor to get a new one. And who will pay for all this? I mean with all the Americans without health insurance who is going to pay $1ooo dollars per doctor visit to upgrade a tracking chip?

Sure your medical history can be stored but what if you have no medical history other than the chip implant?

Sure if a hurricane or earthquake were to kill me here in Kansas then they could find the part of my body with he chip easier. Like I care if I am dead.

It's like the schmucks that believe when the police fingerprint children 'for their protection in case they are kidnapped' that information is not saved over for when little billy starts smoking pot and his fingerprints match a bag from someone they arrest. sure it's for the children.

Here soon there will be a kidnapping or missing child that is 'found' because of RFID and every ignorant parent in the world will have their child chipped for 'their safety'

Fear will make this work.

_squid

[MTGrizzly]

Very well put...

Two of the worst things a parent can do "for" their children, in
the long run, is have them finger printed and submit samples of
their DNA. The belief this is for the "good" of the parent and the
child is shallow, especially compared to the abuses providing
such information to the government can foster.

[Not Bugged]

Designed to be permanent

The outer covering of the implanted chip is designed to grow onto the bone like coral and become permanent. It will soon be powered by the body itself, and need no other power source. Scanners will one day be able to detect a person's temperature, heart rate, and other body readings, and thereby be capable of getting medical help to them sooner. (Of course with Dubya's latest push for mandatory mental health assessments, this now-safe-&-secure implant that the masses may cling to, could suddenly become quite distressing...!)

Just the facts, please =o) (physics, not programming)

RFID, or, known by it's proper name, Passive Inductive Electromagnetic Identification Device, is a one time deal. There is no "programming" involved. It's an invention of physics. Basically, all the device does is return a number (64 bit, I think?). Once you are tagged, that's your number. What makes the system "work" is assigning that number to a record in a database.

You may read elsewhere in these responses some of the more zealous replies referring to blisters and soars. So far, medical testing of these devices in humans indicates there is no harm done. However, the testing of these devices has been limited in nature (entrance to a building, a club, etc). Once the devices go into full-fledged use (used for every financial, security, and social aspect of our lives... many multiple times per day), there will be a late "discovery" that prolonged exposure to electromagnetic fields on a daily basis, and the reaction of the devices to those fields, does 'cause "harm" in that the body will ultimately "reject" the technology.

It *is* coming folks. Bank on it. ;o)

[malabrm1]

Under The Skin

I reckon that unless a person has to sign a legal agreement to such chip implantation, it's a no go. The constitutional laws make a good case that, if inserted without permission, it is a clear invasion of privacy. But, then again, I grew up in the land of the free and the brave, where citizens were innocent til proven guilty. I liked the Tom Cruise flick about discovering he was to be accused a murderer, when he was the futuristic cop who invented tech that forecast felonalies before they occurred. It'smore like Philip K. Dick than Orwell.

[MTGrizzly]

This scenario only works because it implies a choice...

...that we get to chose whether or not we want to have the chip
implanted. While it has always been "voluntary" to procure
checking accounts, credit and/or debit cards and to provide
huge amounts of information to both the government and
private enterprise in the normal course of living, it is hardly
convenient not to do so. If you want to participate, fully, in
modern society, you have to play the game by the rules set by
the government and big business. Read "From Freedom to
Slavery" by Jerry Spence. Large corporations have infringed on
our personal civil liberties more in the recent past than the
government.

If it gets to that point, having the chip implanted will be
"voluntary", if you consider food, clothing, shelter, medical care
and other amenities of modern civilization "voluntary". I live in a
remote area of the Rocky Mountains. I can hunt for food, gather
my own fuel and build my own shelter. Even I cannot live
completely off the grid, though, because I - like most people in
the US - will require medical treatment at some point in my life.
No chip, no medical care. People who live in urban areas, which
now make up 60% of the world's population, can not hunt for
their own food, gather their own fuel nor build their own shelter
- and, mostly, they depend, either directly or indirectly, upon
large corporations to provide them with ways to earn the money
that pays for the necessities of life. When you live in Manhattan
and your employer says, "No chip, no work", how is having the
chip implanted voluntary? Are you going to go hunt squirrels in
Central Park with a rock? I have eaten squirrels, believe me, they
are not something you would want to have to count on for your
primary source of nutrition.

[cutekangaroo]

It's being changed

The constitution is being changed. New acts and laws are being
considered to take away our rights.

It may have been said that it's "the land of the free and home of
the brave", but these days, it is saying "guilty until proven
innocent".

Under The Skin

Unfortunately, the Constitution is basically non-existant. Yes, on paper it's here and politician's love to speak eloquently about it. But, the bottom line is that it's being eroded on a daily basis by judges and politician's who in a very large (and getting larger) degree are lawyers.

666 is geting close

It looks like the mark of the beast is getting close. His (The Lord) is getting close.

No, not me.

Scriture refers to this as the mark of the beast. Give it to the terrorists. Then you can keep track of them. They are typically unbelievers anyway.

[MTGrizzly]

Individual Civil Liberties and Human Rights...

...are the inherent right of all human beings. This right does not
exclude those who some define as "believers" or "terrorists". One
man's religion is another man's heresy. One man's "terrorist" is
another man's "freedom fighter". When we start deciding,
individually or as a nation, who has the "right to be free" on the
basis of some entirely subjective concept, we have become the
oppressors.

The reason we, as a nation, can have this discussion is because
we respect the rights, as set forth by the constitution, of others
and are not willing to brand them criminals simply because they
disagree with us. Let's not change that.

I.D Chips..Hello can you say "Mark of the Beast"

Here it is yet another action by mankind that proves the bible to be absolute truth again! First it was all ok because it was just our dogs and cats that we put them in, all in the name of "pet saftey". Then it was just for criminals in jails, afterall who cares about them? Now it's ok too because it will mark hospitial patients and match mothers to babies, we tag our babies! Wake up folks the next step is they will tell you it will make everything you do "simple". Wave your arm at the gas pump and fill up, just walk right out of the supermarket without having to write a check or "put in your pin", your items are tagged and you are tagged then scanned and the cost debited right out of your account. Your work credit account that is. We will then have a cashless society one where crime can no longer exsist, such as I.D theft or robbery afterall if have no cash or cards, what will they do, cut your arm off, hell yes! This is the "mark of the beast" that is foretold in Revalations. I am glad I will not be here when it is ordered that all who live will have one put in them or be beheaded! "GOT GOD?"

[frankwick]

Make up your mind...

"Hell Yes" "Got God"

Does God want his people cussing? Even if it is a "minor" cuss word when used in this context, I don't think it is appropriate for Christians to speak like that. Yes, we are blasted with it day in and day out on TV, radio, co-workers, etc... Make a stand and stand up for what's right.

[Stan Kee]

Blinded By Terrorists

This won't affect terrorists. It will affect Joe & Jane American citizen. They (Govt) will use your fear of terrorists as a justification to implant and keep track of YOU, not them. "Believers" or "Non-Believers", as you call it, has nothing to do with this, but fear does. You want to keep this from happenning, then don't vote for these fear-mongering nuts who run their entire campaign based on fear and uncertainty. Don't buy into their constant babble of terrorism, dirty bomb, and anthrax attacks. You're more likely to be killed by another American anyway. You have the power to stop this if you vote for the right people. I'm afraid most wont after noticing how people have let the government do whatever it pleases since 9/11, but hey, what can I do about it.
Most Americans don't know torture and repression by their government which is why we take what we have for granted. One day we will lose it. We will understand what other parts of the world have to deal with. We will understand this if we don't pay attention to what is going on. The builders of country knew what happenned when the government gained too much power and they knew the power of fear. They made the government inefficient to keep it from becoming too powerful. We don't understand suffering, but we may one day.

Why not?

The article mentioned that people are using it to track and identfy their dogs and cats and prisons want to use them to track inmates.
If we accept that why not accept them ourselves, in our bodies. After all we are like dogs and cats wholly owned property of the federal government, so they should be able to track and indentify their property right?
Also since the entire country is now one big USA- PATRIOT act prison, we are all inmates. I fail to see the objection to haveing the RFID's implated in every citizen. At least it's not an unnattractive barcode tattoo on our foreheads.

Come on John Ascroft, its for our safety and protect our freedoms right? Sign me up