Comments on: Java inches closer to open source

Sun plans to open up more Java software, but will stop short of sharing the programming language itself.

[pwawright]

Some corrections

Hi, I wanted to suggest a couple of corrections to your story. First, you write "the event won't see developers get their hands on the source code for the actual Java programming". This is not true--the source code for the development kit (the JDK) has shipped along with every Java release since it was introduced 10 years ago. And as of last year, the Peabody project on java.net allows you to see all the rest of it--including the full source code for the virtual machine--Sun's implementation, Hotspot. The issue is not releasing the source code, but the license under which it is released. Until recently, any changes you made to the JDK Java source code could not be legally redistributed; this was relaxed last year so it is legal to release it within, say, a company, as long as you assume the risk of making the changes. What some FOSS advocates want is the right to take the JDK source code (from Sun), change or "fix" it, and then release those changes to the world. That's what you can't do right now.

Second, you write, "simpler, faster scripting languages are gaining interest among developers". However, "faster" in this case means "lower cost of development" or "faster time to market". Whether the scripting language actually performs faster depends on many factors. Perl will probably be faster for string operations as it can use a highly tuned C library to that end. Whether it's faster in general, or where it performs better, is a matter of benchmarking. The issue is not that Java is slow (though it is probably slower for some purposes) but that development in Java follows a traditional design-code-compile-test cycle which just takes longer, partly because of the extensive type-checking during the compile cycle, and partly because a compile needs to complete before the program can be run. Scripting languages which support a full interpreter can be run without an intermediate compile step, which some developers prefer, as they get feedback about what is wrong sooner.

Cheers
Patrick

[pwawright]

Some corrections

Hi, I wanted to suggest a couple of corrections to your story. First, you write "the event won't see developers get their hands on the source code for the actual Java programming". This is not true--the source code for the development kit (the JDK) has shipped along with every Java release since it was introduced 10 years ago. And as of last year, the Peabody project on java.net allows you to see all the rest of it--including the full source code for the virtual machine--Sun's implementation, Hotspot. The issue is not releasing the source code, but the license under which it is released. Until recently, any changes you made to the JDK Java source code could not be legally redistributed; this was relaxed last year so it is legal to release it within, say, a company, as long as you assume the risk of making the changes. What some FOSS advocates want is the right to take the JDK source code (from Sun), change or "fix" it, and then release those changes to the world. That's what you can't do right now.

Second, you write, "simpler, faster scripting languages are gaining interest among developers". However, "faster" in this case means "lower cost of development" or "faster time to market". Whether the scripting language actually performs faster depends on many factors. Perl will probably be faster for string operations as it can use a highly tuned C library to that end. Whether it's faster in general, or where it performs better, is a matter of benchmarking. The issue is not that Java is slow (though it is probably slower for some purposes) but that development in Java follows a traditional design-code-compile-test cycle which just takes longer, partly because of the extensive type-checking during the compile cycle, and partly because a compile needs to complete before the program can be run. Scripting languages which support a full interpreter can be run without an intermediate compile step, which some developers prefer, as they get feedback about what is wrong sooner.

Cheers
Patrick

[Captain_Spock]

With All Of This Talk....

... about "Giving products away for free to developers has become commonplace...." I am very curious at this time as to why MICROSOFT, IBM and SUN MICROSYSTEMS are holding on to the OS/2 Source-Codes... when it is known that a few years ago IBM and SUN MICROSYSTEMS were engaged in a collaborative project for the "DESKTOP". Just what are NICROSOFT, IBM and SUN MICROSYSTEMS afraid of in moving the "JAVA OS" into the Open-Source Community when these companies are not actively supporting or have no interest in the OS/2 Platforms! Why not just give this "Java" OS away for free...!

[Captain_Spock]

With All Of This Talk....

... about "Giving products away for free to developers has become commonplace...." I am very curious at this time as to why MICROSOFT, IBM and SUN MICROSYSTEMS are holding on to the OS/2 Source-Codes... when it is known that a few years ago IBM and SUN MICROSYSTEMS were engaged in a collaborative project for the "DESKTOP". Just what are NICROSOFT, IBM and SUN MICROSYSTEMS afraid of in moving the "JAVA OS" into the Open-Source Community when these companies are not actively supporting or have no interest in the OS/2 Platforms! Why not just give this "Java" OS away for free...!