Comments on: PC pricing, demand take hit in second quarter

Second quarters tend to be a disappointment for makers of PCs and chips. This one was no exception.

Just build it

Why spend tons of money on machines that use low quality parts because they're built in bulk. Just buy the parts and build a better box.
http://www.techknowcafe.com/content/view/551/43/

[Earl Benser]

Cheap PC's ....

...... are at the core of the problem. Once PC manufacturers
went for the bottom line and forgot about quality, the PS was a
junk product. MS could get away with a junk OS. And publishers
could get away with junk apps.

No one had any respect for quality - but why should they|? Most
users judged only by price, and the cheaper PC models won.
Actually, it was generally a correct decision, most PC users were
general incompetent on the computer and ran only simple
programs and MS's embedded 'apps'. And for those, the cheap
PC was generally adequate.

My PSC's are stuck with Windows XP - bad as it is, it's all that is
really available. And my main PC run a 3 GHZ Pentium 4 and
uses 768 MB of RAM - I need some quality in that unit. The rest
are 500 MHZ Celerons with 384 MB of RAM (compaq 5600
series). And I have a fairly full range of apps to operate my
company's business.

For serious computing, however, All the PC's lose out to my
array of Mac's (OS9 thru OS 10.4.7, 350 to dual 1250 MHZ
speed, 1.25 to 2.0 GB of RAM, and Mac versions of most of the
useful PC apps). XP can't compare to OS 10.4.7, the Mac apps
have all the features the PC apps lost, overall operation is far
more professional, I'm not constantly bombarded with error
corrections labelled updates, and I don't fight the generally
useless embedded software MS uses to kill independent
publishers.

So I agree with saving your money as long as the PC
manufacturers continue to try to 'out-cheap' each other, And
were I to get a new PC, I might just build it myself where I know
the quality and full capabilities of the parts being used. And I
could avoid the tendency of the PC to use cheap screw
approaches like USB 2 rather than FireWire. But then, I would
have to consider using Vista. And at best, I am five years away
from that move. MS needs the time to revamp an essentially
early Beta design into something approaching useful. And even
then, I'm not sure I see anything tjat might be a useful
improvement.

But then, as no end of other writers will clearly explain to you, I
am not a fan of the PC or MS. In addition, I don't drive Fords or
Chevies. I don't like beer or professional 'wrestling'. Most
networks TV shows don't even qualify as junk. And Kerry was a
waste of time (Bush wasn't a whole lot better). So don't waste
your time telling me I walk to a different drummer. I know I do. I
just hate being around lemmings.

[sdsdv10]

Are you sure....

From the low to mid-range I don't believe this is the case. I just purchased a refurbished Dell Optiplex GX620, with a 670 P4 CPU, 2GB of RAM 160GB, Dual layer DVD write, MS XP Pro etc with a 3 year warranty for ~$1200 shipped to my door. The CPU and XP Pro license alone would cost me >$800 at newegg. There is no way I could have bought the rest of the stuff (PSU, motherboard, HD, memory, etc) and had it shipped to my door for less than $400, unless I bought at the very low end. I built my own computer two years ago, so I know how to do it. When comparing prices you can only compete with with the OEM's at the very high end stuff. I have done more than a half a dozen comparisons in the last 18 months, and the OEM were always at least 5-10% under what I could buy the parts for myself. Don't believe me, check out any HP, Dell, Lenovo low to midrange system and select the same parts at your favorite etailer. At $1500 or less price point, the OEM's will always win.

As for Dell quality, I know I have read all the horror stories on the web to. But my 5 year old Dell Dimension 8100 is still going strong. Added more memory and a dual layer DVD writer. I will get a good couple more years out of it as a desktop (just for web browsing) until I turn it into a RAID server in the basement.

Just build it

Why spend tons of money on machines that use low quality parts because they're built in bulk. Just buy the parts and build a better box.
http://www.techknowcafe.com/content/view/551/43/

[Earl Benser]

Cheap PC's ....

...... are at the core of the problem. Once PC manufacturers
went for the bottom line and forgot about quality, the PS was a
junk product. MS could get away with a junk OS. And publishers
could get away with junk apps.

No one had any respect for quality - but why should they|? Most
users judged only by price, and the cheaper PC models won.
Actually, it was generally a correct decision, most PC users were
general incompetent on the computer and ran only simple
programs and MS's embedded 'apps'. And for those, the cheap
PC was generally adequate.

My PSC's are stuck with Windows XP - bad as it is, it's all that is
really available. And my main PC run a 3 GHZ Pentium 4 and
uses 768 MB of RAM - I need some quality in that unit. The rest
are 500 MHZ Celerons with 384 MB of RAM (compaq 5600
series). And I have a fairly full range of apps to operate my
company's business.

For serious computing, however, All the PC's lose out to my
array of Mac's (OS9 thru OS 10.4.7, 350 to dual 1250 MHZ
speed, 1.25 to 2.0 GB of RAM, and Mac versions of most of the
useful PC apps). XP can't compare to OS 10.4.7, the Mac apps
have all the features the PC apps lost, overall operation is far
more professional, I'm not constantly bombarded with error
corrections labelled updates, and I don't fight the generally
useless embedded software MS uses to kill independent
publishers.

So I agree with saving your money as long as the PC
manufacturers continue to try to 'out-cheap' each other, And
were I to get a new PC, I might just build it myself where I know
the quality and full capabilities of the parts being used. And I
could avoid the tendency of the PC to use cheap screw
approaches like USB 2 rather than FireWire. But then, I would
have to consider using Vista. And at best, I am five years away
from that move. MS needs the time to revamp an essentially
early Beta design into something approaching useful. And even
then, I'm not sure I see anything tjat might be a useful
improvement.

But then, as no end of other writers will clearly explain to you, I
am not a fan of the PC or MS. In addition, I don't drive Fords or
Chevies. I don't like beer or professional 'wrestling'. Most
networks TV shows don't even qualify as junk. And Kerry was a
waste of time (Bush wasn't a whole lot better). So don't waste
your time telling me I walk to a different drummer. I know I do. I
just hate being around lemmings.

[sdsdv10]

Are you sure....

From the low to mid-range I don't believe this is the case. I just purchased a refurbished Dell Optiplex GX620, with a 670 P4 CPU, 2GB of RAM 160GB, Dual layer DVD write, MS XP Pro etc with a 3 year warranty for ~$1200 shipped to my door. The CPU and XP Pro license alone would cost me >$800 at newegg. There is no way I could have bought the rest of the stuff (PSU, motherboard, HD, memory, etc) and had it shipped to my door for less than $400, unless I bought at the very low end. I built my own computer two years ago, so I know how to do it. When comparing prices you can only compete with with the OEM's at the very high end stuff. I have done more than a half a dozen comparisons in the last 18 months, and the OEM were always at least 5-10% under what I could buy the parts for myself. Don't believe me, check out any HP, Dell, Lenovo low to midrange system and select the same parts at your favorite etailer. At $1500 or less price point, the OEM's will always win.

As for Dell quality, I know I have read all the horror stories on the web to. But my 5 year old Dell Dimension 8100 is still going strong. Added more memory and a dual layer DVD writer. I will get a good couple more years out of it as a desktop (just for web browsing) until I turn it into a RAID server in the basement.

[sdsdv10]

Ah, you made my point...

All from Newegg, a major supplier of OEM parts.

Complete desktop computer from Acer;
newegg_dot_com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16883103017
included motherboard, 2GB RAM, Intel 940 dual core CPU (there wasn't any AMD X2 models listed), 200GB hard drive (7200rpm SATA), power supply (although at only 300W, however it does comes with 3 year factory warranty), keyboard, mouse, case, XP Pro, a dual layer DVD burner and the mentioned 3 year warranty for $940 (plus $27 shipping). It uses integrated graphics, but does have a 16xPCIe slot. A XFX 6800GS PCIe card is $195 (plus $7 shipping). So, for a grand total of $1169 (including shipping) you can get a similar system to the one you mentioned for ~$1300 (Eliminating the extra hard drives, also as you mentioned. As these would add the same cost to either system). So, for about $140 less than you

If you really like to build your own systems, that is great. But people should really stop using cost as the main reason. OEM?s can build the same or similar system that a person builds at home for essentially the same or less cost. There are other reasons to build you own, but price really isn?t one of them anymore.

So, I stand by my statement. With a little searching and effort, below the $1500 price point you can get a very nice OEM system that will meet or beat a home built system.

Regarding purchasing OEM parts, beside optical drives, hard drives and operating systems, what can you by OEM. Sure you can get OEM CPU?s, but then you have to get a separate HSF and they are often more expensive OEM than retail box (check out newegg Opteron prices). Motherboards, I don?t think so. You need the I/O plate and cables anyway. Cases don?t come OEM (from the big name companies, like Antec or Lian-Li), neither do power supplies (again from the major suppliers). For memory, I found a $6 difference on Crucial 1GB DDR2 667modules (OEM $124, Retail $130), not really 50%, closer to 5%.

Let me restate, I am not against building computers myself (I built my own PC two years ago). But it shouldn?t be stated that cost is the major factor for the decision, because this is simply not the case. If you like to just know how to do it, to lessen you anxiety on working/fixing them, enjoy it as hobby, do it for a job are all good reasons to build your own, saving money isn?t because you won?t really save all that much.

[sdsdv10]

Sorry, wrong place

This was ment as a reply to Bob Smith. Stupid me, clicked the wrong link.

[sdsdv10]

Ah, you made my point...

All from Newegg, a major supplier of OEM parts.

Complete desktop computer from Acer;
newegg_dot_com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16883103017
included motherboard, 2GB RAM, Intel 940 dual core CPU (there wasn't any AMD X2 models listed), 200GB hard drive (7200rpm SATA), power supply (although at only 300W, however it does comes with 3 year factory warranty), keyboard, mouse, case, XP Pro, a dual layer DVD burner and the mentioned 3 year warranty for $940 (plus $27 shipping). It uses integrated graphics, but does have a 16xPCIe slot. A XFX 6800GS PCIe card is $195 (plus $7 shipping). So, for a grand total of $1169 (including shipping) you can get a similar system to the one you mentioned for ~$1300 (Eliminating the extra hard drives, also as you mentioned. As these would add the same cost to either system). So, for about $140 less than you

If you really like to build your own systems, that is great. But people should really stop using cost as the main reason. OEM?s can build the same or similar system that a person builds at home for essentially the same or less cost. There are other reasons to build you own, but price really isn?t one of them anymore.

So, I stand by my statement. With a little searching and effort, below the $1500 price point you can get a very nice OEM system that will meet or beat a home built system.

Regarding purchasing OEM parts, beside optical drives, hard drives and operating systems, what can you by OEM. Sure you can get OEM CPU?s, but then you have to get a separate HSF and they are often more expensive OEM than retail box (check out newegg Opteron prices). Motherboards, I don?t think so. You need the I/O plate and cables anyway. Cases don?t come OEM (from the big name companies, like Antec or Lian-Li), neither do power supplies (again from the major suppliers). For memory, I found a $6 difference on Crucial 1GB DDR2 667modules (OEM $124, Retail $130), not really 50%, closer to 5%.

Let me restate, I am not against building computers myself (I built my own PC two years ago). But it shouldn?t be stated that cost is the major factor for the decision, because this is simply not the case. If you like to just know how to do it, to lessen you anxiety on working/fixing them, enjoy it as hobby, do it for a job are all good reasons to build your own, saving money isn?t because you won?t really save all that much.

[sdsdv10]

Sorry, wrong place

This was ment as a reply to Bob Smith. Stupid me, clicked the wrong link.

[john55440]

Fourth Quarter Demand

Fourth quarter demand should be interesting:

Some people may hold off their purchase, so they can get Vista preinstalled.

Some people may rush to purchase a WinXP machine, to avoid Vista preinstalled.

[john55440]

Fourth Quarter Demand

Fourth quarter demand should be interesting:

Some people may hold off their purchase, so they can get Vista preinstalled.

Some people may rush to purchase a WinXP machine, to avoid Vista preinstalled.