Comments on: Is the $199 PC doomed to fail?

NComputing CEO Stephen Dukker writes that a computer cannot exist independent of basic economic realities that govern the world.

[bjdooley]

Bullocks!

While the known computer base has remained stable, it is impossible to tell how far the recycled computer base has expanded, and used computers are still probably far ahead of any of the new cheap computer initiatives (and everyone always seems to forget the Indian one). Electricity and communications are probably the chief obstacles, rather than system availability. Still, and all, a laudable effort.

[Phillep_H]

And bovine excretment

How many businesses were still using a 286 and DOS without an internet connection 10 years ago? All of a sudden a 1 Gig machine with broadband is needed?

There's a heck of a market out there for a small laptop that can run all day on batteries, but there isn't much profit to be made off them.

[gggg sssss]

recycled bull crap

even the poorest of consumers can't get by with a 286, 308 or even P, PII. Want to see pdf? watch a flash? Edit a Word doc? Run Quicktax? And why would anybody buy a 300 recycled PC when you can get a $399 NEW pc from dell - and the spread is often less. Where do you find windows 95 drivers for a any printer you can actuially buy today? etc etc

[Scopeman58]

Double Bollocks

It takes a US-centric and tech-centric view to envision mainframe-like "shared computing" or the thin-client models as the solution for the third world. I suggest you actually go to the third world; they have an entrepenurial "shared computing" resource now - it's called a locally-owned Internet Cafe, and it's full of recycled system deemed "underpowered" by non-tech-savvy Westerners.

Without too much effort the third world has not only found out how to effectively timeshare these sub <$300 machines (they use a free market model) but they have given rise to millions of small businesses running on these time shared systems.

This solution requires only connectivity, electricity and a continuting cascade of hardware from the upgrade cycle. Which means the real answer to hooking up the third world are groups like Geekcorps, not another thin client business looking for a market.

[JohnMcGrew]

Absolutely

Could not have said it better myself.

Part of the problem (like most of the arrogant western-world's approach to third-world aid) is the idea that we can hand out these "this is what we think you can handle" concepts when what they are actually happy with is the building blocks of what we've already had. In other words, in order to really grow, they need to experince what we have in the past. They aren't going to learn anything from these packaged "just add water" approaches.

The thin-client model for places that totally lack infastructure just sounds like a business plan looking for an excuse to happen. It's not what they need.

[Penguinisto]

Bollocks Aplenty!

[i]"Only if you believe that OLPC and Intel's $200 laptop, with their PDA-like, seven-inch screens and obsolete processors are the answer."[/i]

Yes, Stupid, it [i]can[/i] be.

I can confidently say that it is very possible to run servers for HTTP (Apache), SMTP (via postfix), MySQL (yes, you read that right), and a whole host of other enterprise-grade server software on one of those laptops you so easily deride, even chaining them together to create an impromptu but damned workable basic infrastructure. The only limitation is storage space, which a few USB external disks can cover without too much cost or bother.

Deride it all you want, but it is this spirit of improvisation which often creates the largest and most fundamental changes.

/P

[abfalter]

Yet More Bullocks!

Author states: "The price of a base-level personal computer today is about $400. That hasn't changed much in the last ten years, although the power this computer delivers has increased profoundly."

Bwa, wha? The price of a base-level computer
10 years ago was no where near $400. It was
more like $1000-$1500.

Hard to take the authors opinions seriously
when he makes such outrageous remarks. I
stopped reading the article after that bit
of nonsense.

[rk2469]

Like everything else

It seems that people who are proposing the $200 PC not only dismiss principles of Economics but they repeat this every where in life. They have this Utopian idea that thing should be xyz. The produce significantly degraded experience at the end. people are lauded because of their Utopian idea rather than for their (long term) results.

Do people who have an access to Internet do better? Are American school students do better because they have the access to the Internet? US students are still ranks 26th and 28th in the world in Math and Science. US is producing uneducated and unskilled workers only from high school level but college level as well.

The idea that if Rwanda or Sudan had the internet, it would solve their current or future political problem is a simpletonian idea. How long have we been seeing hungry African people on TV. it never ends. Per haps, it's not the computer or the internet. What would they do next? US has been fighting poverty for almost 100 years at cost of $6 trillion money transfer. Yet, John Edward is flying everywhere to find poverty. His solution is to give pay checks to those who work. Brilliant, isn't it! Imagine, you give a paycheck to those who work in America! Move mover Sam Walton, we need the Ed-Mart.

$200 iPhone? Would iPod solve problems? If they just listen to Paris Hilton's song, they would be a lot better off? Or maybe, Umbrella ella ella?

Ideas like this fail every where. Yet, they are allowed to get away with their no-results without any consequences. Remember the ?Red Campaign? how they spent $100 million to collect $11 million as of 02/2007. also, the end poverty thing, ?ONE? by Bono of U2, He makes a t-shirt that?s made in Lesotho that cost $54? donates $0.25 into actual charity, which is made, managed, and sold by his wife. He tells everybody else to pay taxes, yet he evades paying taxes. I am not pro-tax but this guy tells everybody else to pay more taxes but not him.
It seems that people who are proposing the $200 PC not only dismiss principles of Economics but they repeat this every where in life. They have this utopian idea that thing should be xyz. The produce significantly degraded experience at the end. people are lauded because of their utopian idea rather than for their (long term) results.

Do people who have an access to Internet do better? Are American school students do better because they have the access to the Internet? US students are still ranks 26th and 28th in the world in Math and Science. US is producing uneducated and unskilled workers only from high school level but college level as well.

The idea that if Rwanda or Sudan had the internet, it would solve their current or future political problem is a simpletonian idea. How long have we been seeing hungry African people on TV. it never ends. Per haps, it's not the computer or the internet. What would they do next? US has been fighting poverty for almost 100 years at cost of $6 trillion money transfer. Yet, John Edward is flying everywhere to find poverty. His solution is to give pay checks to those who work. Brilliant, isn't it! Imagine, you give a paycheck to those who work in America! Move mover Sam Walton, we need the Ed-Mart.

$200 iPhone? Would iPod solve problems? If they just listen to Paris Hilton's song, they would be a lot better off? Or maybe, Umbrella ella ella?

Ideas like this fail every where. Yet, they are allowed to get away with their no-results without any consequences. Remember the ?Red Campaign? how they spent $100 million to collect $11 million as of 02/2007. also, the end poverty thing, ?ONE? by Bono of U2, He makes a t-shirt that?s made in Lesotho that cost $54? donates $0.25 into actual charity, which is made, managed, and sold by his wife. He tells everybody else to pay taxes, yet he evades paying taxes. I am not pro-tax but this guy tells everybody else to pay more taxes but not him.

[J.G.]

Racism, stupidity not answer

This comment is so screwy that one wonders if the person who wrote it is even passingly in touch with reality. A bunch of unproven anecdotes attacking 'liberals' offers no real insight into solving the problems of developing countries. Nor do these remarks have anything to do with the topic under discussion.

The claim that there is something inherently wrong with Africans that is the core of rk2469's 'wisdom' is just plain, unadulterated racism.

[cambarne]

Open Source Tool Box For the Developing World

And next you will be writing to say that if People in Developing Nations where given wood working tools then they would be of no use because they have no spare parts (eg blades for electric jigsaws etc). Stop reporting out of your arse and Profiting from the negative all of the time.

[00rb]

Huum, not sure about failing; they just got a 3m unit order...

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_6449076

[bobcode]

Used PC sales and give aways show the success of it.

Used PCs simply sold on eBay or simply given away shows the success of the $200 PC. Not everyone needs, wants or really knows what do to with more. Running PINE would be adequte for many many people. Trouble is, they are likely technophobes or computer-shy. Intel-Asutek's $300 10" laptop with RHEL4 would be adequate for one on my projects, and might be affordable for someone I know.

OLCP is pursuing a nonexistant market. That's why he's targeting government buys. Government buying those machines means there is no market. The self-saficentcy reenforces the point.

[J.G.]

You have DC, they don't

The OLPC computers will be used in environments where electricity is either not available or unreliable. Used computers require DC so they are not a solution to the problem OLPC is meant to solve. The OLPC computers are designed to run off batteries, wind power, cranking, etc.

Governments will buy the computers because the children's parents can't afford them. Also, education is a government function.

It amazes me that some people fail to grasp that circumstances in an affluent society differ from those in most of the world.

[ahickey]

Different solutions for same problem

Different solutions for same problem

Thin clients are great where there is a connection to the internet/network location
But where there is no connectivity or even reliable electricity the OLPC initiative is a better match.

For Eco-system. Remember all the programmers and support people who earned a living as computers became more important. If OLPC works then local people should have the chance to gain through software and support.
With a thin-client all the support is maintained by the network owner, so there is very limited opportunity for local people to gain.

Finally, remember the 80s when a lot of people who now read news.com began learning about computers on Commodore/Atari/Sinclair computers. A lot of people have their careers based on their early tinkering and development. This is what I believe the OLPC project is work towards.
Children get the change to learn/experiment and gain skills that will be valuable to them in the future. Not a bad goal.

It should be great to see the effect this has on the local economies when the OLPC has been running for a few years.

[protagonistic]

RE: Is the $199 PC doomed to fail?

Is it just me or does it appear that the author has no grasp of the
concept behind the OLPC initiative?

[mrzonbu]

Read about life with a $99 PC replacement

I've been following this particular topic for some time and I've started a blog to explore whether you can really replace a desktop PC with a $99 black box, with a broadband connection.

More details on my blog:

http://mrzonbu.wordpress.com

[Will Radecki]

Room for everyone

It?s unfortunate that you took an either/or approach to the issue of bringing computing technology to developing countries. Many of your criticisms of OLPC and other low-cost initiatives are valid ? they are being introduced into a weak ecosystem, and it will be a challenge to fill in the component parts of the value chain after the machine?s introduction.

However, it?s a big world, whether you view it as a market opportunity, a target for philanthropy, or a collection of societies that are better left to their own devices. There?s room enough for everybody, and the high demand for computer usage in developing countries will likely be met by a wide variety of computing solutions.

The simultaneous use of one modern, powerful PC by multiple users is one of many viable options for reducing the cost of computing ? a goal for many people in both developing and developed countries. Several companies have played with the idea, but larger multinationals have shied away from it, believing a multi-user system would cannibalize their individual-user PC sales and put further pressure on already slim margins.

Ncomputing, Userful, and a few other companies have figured out that multi-user computers can be profitable while meeting a key user demand (i.e., lower per-seat costs). For those who are interested, Vital Wave Consulting (where I work) has produced a brief report on the business case for multi-user computers. Visit http://www.vitalwaveconsulting.com/publications-2.htm for details.

[Phillep_H]

Centralized resource

You know what happens when a new resource is made available to a village? The most powerful person in the area grabs control and uses it to maintain power and wealth. Put in a mainframe or anything that can be grabbed by someone, and it will be.

[pugster]

The problem is software/bloatware

Stephen Dukker is obviously promoting thin client solutions. While this sounds nice, you need to stay connected to the central server all the time. These $199 pc's are small, portable and most people won't be connected to a central server all the time.

Most of these people in the third world country don't use the latest and greatest software. They have modem connection and use older pentium II, pentium III, athlon processors and others pc's that the US corporate companies dumped. Just think if they can get the same kind of hardware with the smaller footfront.

The problem is the software support. OLPC have created one software image that everybody can use. Most people with the $199 eee 701 would just want to surf the web, send e-mail, and maybe use some nifty programs that doesn't require the horsepower.

[cyclelogicpress.com]

Doomed?

Hopefully the governments of these countries have more money
than their citizens or this thing ain't going to fly.

[Dennis Kearns]

$200 PC

For me I think the Pc cost is econdary to the high cost of getting on the internet. The high fees the ISP's charge do certainly cause a lot of people to abstain for PC purchase. As for the $200 PC the is an article about a new laptop from Sweden costing $150 that surely is below $200 and I hope the internet suppliers fall in line with pricing accordingly

[Ken from Chicago]

$100 wifi computers ALREADY exist

Only we call them cell phones, but they are just really small computers. And even where there are gaps in cell towers, people will WALK--like what ALREADY happens in some "3rd world" villages where the whole village shares a cellphone.

The only "problem" is "keeping up with the Joneses" or the upgrade / obsoletism syndrome referred to in the article. Those expectations are "1st world" expectations of computers.

It's just like many in America expect cars to have power locks, windows, heat, a/c, radio, remote locks but in many countries those would be viewed not only as options but luxuries.

Plus the major workload on home computers tends to be high-end 3d / video graphics for games / video yet aside from them, most people wouldn't "require" them.

Besides, the most popular online activity is email.

-- Ken from Chicago

P.S. One could easily add peripherals for those who don't want to thumb-type on a cellphone keyboard or watch a cellphone display screen.

[Troll Hard]

The $199 Desktop PC is not that far away

http://news.com.com/Wal-Mart%2C+Kmart+to+sell+Windows-less+PCs+on+the+cheap/2100-1040_3-229887.html

Wal-mart, K-Mart, planned to sell a $299 Geos based PC called the Global PC. Reported by CNet news.

The iToaster was reported to be a $199 BeOS based PC.

I think we will see a $199 Linux based PC soon. Wal-Mart used to sell $199 Linspire/Lindows based PCs, and I think the Linux community can pick the low level parts that don't cost too much to build $199 Linux desktops. Or at least bundle them with an ISP contract to reduce the price to $199 or lower.

[wallinger1]

Linux and power saving cpu's have sovled those issues

I read this and said did he even read about the thing I mean everything he said was addressed by Linux OS or the design he is pro microsoft and thinking in those terms I.T. is done by the Linux community so this whole article is just bashing a good thing that they wish they had thought of.

[J.G.]

It's about education, not business

Dukker is a confused person. He thinks that the issue is establishing IT businesses in the developing countries served by OLPC. These computers are intended for education, not business. The computers will serve as a way to provide the information in books without the costs of buying millions of books for the children. Connectivity will be achieved via mesh networks (computers connecting to each other); Wi-Fi, and interaction with wired computers that will sometimes serve as mainframes.

Dukker wants to sell his product regardless of whether a market is suited to what he is offering. The education market in developing countries is not.

I will keep the name of his company in mind so I can warn people away from it.

[x1134x]

Here's an idea you dolts!

how about instead of OLPC they try first olpAc One laptop per *american* child. Much easier, more feasible and would actually make great change. These damn idealogues **** me off when they operate with this "global concience". Need I remind them that the USA is on the GLOBE!

"Helping people in the developing world cross the digital divide is a fundamental act of decency, generosity" -- -- BAARRRF! Help the americans cross that divide 1st, you're putting the cart before the horse. This is the eventual result government enforced charity, USA charity is taken care of by forcible taxation and redistribution of wealth. Companies no longer think of being philanthropic within the US because 1. it (the charitable need) already has a law, a tax and a system to feed it, or 2. They're idiots who think the US has progressed far enough and is somehow "leaving the third world behind" and shouldn't progress furthur until we catch the rest of the world up. There's a reason its sometimes referred to as "the turd world" the people themselves have let *themselves* get left behind. When they are done with their stupid civil wars, find borders and democracy, they'll catch up quick, and since we cannot FORCE democracy on the turd world, (as is evident in IRAQ) we will just have to be content to wait it out for how many ever generations it takes for these people to produce progeny that will move ITSELF forward.

The *only* good thing about this is - at least for now,- there is no OLPTWC (one laptop per turd world child) tax forcibly taken from me.

I would *NOT* be infavor of a OLPAC tax per se but I would donate an amount of money to that cause.