Comments on: Google, Microsoft, Apple sued over preview icons

Arizona-based networking company sues the tech giants for allegedly infringing on a patent related to document thumbnails used in operating systems.

[js0n435]

I'm sick of these patent lawsuits. GNOME (i think) & several other environments have been offering this feature for years - at least before 1998. "First use" supercedes any patent claims. Stop wasting my time cnet with the patent claims of stupid panzys.

[ferricoxide]

Sun's OpenLook (circa late 80s) had launchable icons and document type icons. So, unless their "patent" originates earlier than that (not likely), don't see how this will stand.

[SJ2571]

How is Cnet wasting your time? They're just reporting the news. Get a life.

[Lerianis]

Actually, I have to agree with Js0n435. This is a waste of space online, considering that after MINIMAL research, these things have been around since the late 1980's.
I don't know where the patent office was when they were giving out this patent, but they must have been drunk, high, and dying of a brain hemorrhage at the same time in order to give this patent out.

[wired_x]

They're just reporting on something that's happening NOW. It is not an article about the history of these features. Like how you get newsreports of car crashes that happened last night on the freeway. Accidents have been happening since the invention of cars, right?

[Hunnter2k3]

If you don't want to read it, go elsewhere.
But we love to laugh at obvious patent trolls.

[Chukwudi]

Yeah, I'm alarmed at the many patent lawsuits CNet has reported in 2008 alone.

A lot of them have been ridiculous, and they seem to increase with the continually failing American economy (and parts of its infrastructure).

Greed is simply it.

People are filing patents to things that the hope big and small companies will make profits off of without actually having prior knowledge of it. That just doesn't seem right to me.

[maniac42]

That patent claim should be easy enough to invalidate. Programs such as Paint Shop Pro and ACD See were using thumbnail representations of graphics files for years before 2001. Cygnus is a little late to the party. It sounds about as ridiculous as SCO's specious claims about Linux and Unix a couple of years ago.

[SJ2571]

The claim is against an OS using thumbnails, not programs. There IS a difference.

[Rants&Raves]

Many of these OSes simply applied the parts of the TIFF and JPEG standards that allowed for embedded thumbnails to be shown. That also predates the patent by a long shot. I think that by the time the patent started to be worked on, it represented a normal expectation of users in 1998 to have some sort of preview of documents. I was certainly embedding such features in Windows 95-based programs at the request of users. As such, it is a patent on the trivial and obvious and helps in no way the protection of intellectual innovation.

Litigants: I've been writing software since 1981. if you'd like me to be a witness against this ridiculous claim, I'd be happy to do it.

[ElArZ]

Replying To: "The claim is against an OS using thumbnails, not programs. There IS a difference."

"Cygnus Systems targets Google's Chrome, Microsoft's Vista and Internet Explorer 8, and Apple's iPhone, Safari, and Mac OS X as patent infringers."

This is not against OSs only since Chrome, IE8 and Safari are included.

Plus, this whole patent deal is laughable at best.

[SJ2571]

Sorry, I was going by the opening paragraph which said the issue was for OSes and it didn't mention apps.

[ballmerisanape]

SJ2571,

Finder in the Mac OS is an application.

[gabeheim]

Quote: The claim is against an OS using thumbnails, not programs. There IS a difference.

SJ: I believe applications using thumbnails will be strong enough to be considered prior art. If a court is stupid enough not to accept that, then the defendants can whip out the dinosaur book (any CS graduate who took a systems course will know what that is) and provide the "Pure" definition of OS, which means that 90% of Windows, Mac OS X, and GNU on Linux are multiple applications, and not an OS proper. NT Kernel, Darwin/XNU, and Linux (kernel) are the operating systems, and they do not provide thumbnail previews. Although MS has been known to put some peculiar things into kernel space (GDI, bad idea), I don't believe they have put the higher level thumbnail abstractions there.

Their suit against google also provides strong evidence that they don't even know what the hell their patent is. If CNet's paraphrase is accurate, as mentioned, chrome can not be considered an OS component in any way, not even in the loosest definition. Furthermore it does not provide thumbnail previews of files, but rather websites, and considering that a large amount of web content is dynamic, this means that 1 webpage != 1 file. (php, aspx, etc are never downloaded to the client, the http output is a dynamic stream of data).

Of course, if MS decides to settle, but no one else does, then I smell a rat. They are often the target of trolls due to their deep pockets, but they have been known to use them for their own gain against competitors.

[MSSlayer]

An OS is a program.

[tehrani625]

That is the stupidest thing that a company could do. Unless they make an operating system of their own, then they should be taken out back and shot. I live in Arizona, I hope that the courts don't let this fly. I also think that, that is a bogus patent, its too broad and when the patent was awarded all the companies that they are suing have been using "icons" before the patent was initially created.

[G2Geo]

This guy is not going to get very far

[brokenlaw]

The whole idea here is not so much to me as whether something is valid or not. What maters here is can this guy get as much money as he can, patents like this are all over, and considering how broken the patent system is, well let just say from what I read in NY times some time ago, if it was like it is now say 50 years ago, the article said it doubted that we would have any of the technology we have today. Patents and Copyright are as broken as they can be, love to see how much worse it gets in the next 10 years considering that tech is going to accelerate and not slow down. What a joke.

[BIGELLOW]

I was just awarded a patent on the word "patent"... oh boy, will I be rich.

[EdInSac]

LOL - actually, you would get a trademark on word, phrase or image, not a patent. Too bad the US Trademark Office does not hand out trademarks like the Patent Office gives away patents!

[Thomas, David]

@EdlnSac

ROFLMAO! - Truth be told, the USPTO would probably grant a patent on the word "patent" if you fill out the application properly, and with enough techno-babble to confuse them!

[upuaut]

I have a patent on clicking the left mouse button with my right hand's pinky for browsing files on a computer. You've been forewarned.

[the_ricochet]

That sounds very painful.

[Mmmhmm]

*phew* I'm off the hook... I can safely say I've never clicked the left mouse button with *your* right hand's pinky for browsing files on a computer. I'll make sure to avoid such a thing in the future! :)

[Seaspray0]

That's just a copy of my patent on clicking the mouse button with the left hand pinky. Cease using your right pinky or I'll have to sue.

[Stephen Macklin]

I am going to patent the idea of using a small dot to signify the end of sentence

[GandalfoGris]

Then why didn't you end your sentence with a period? Are you afraid someone patented the dot first?
By the way, I patented the idea of ending questions with a question mark. The world will be better without questions, just answers.

[Goodbye Helicopter]

the mac os did this in the 90s already in at least OS 8

[assman]

The patent was awarded in 2008! A bit too late to sue anyone.. thumbnails have been used long before this year. I'm sure Apple and Microsoft have their own patents for a similar technology that was filed decades ago.

[EcuadorHomesOnline]

The article states that it's a continuation of a 1998 application. Still, there were preview icons before then. It's a waste of everyone's time and money.

[fgwgner]

This is messed up look on the bottom of their website. Microsoft gold certified partner

[Marchioly_Torma]

I hope they win. Stick it up to the big guys, Cynus. Don't let them abuse your patents!

Would you let a strange man touch your daughter? In the same vein, companies should touch your patent.

[Hep Cat]

Wow. Cygnus is a patent troll, and you're just a plain old troll.

[Seaspray0]

I hold the patent on strange men touching your daughter. I'm releasing it as freeware.

[brokenlaw]

If you really have a daughter lots of strange men are going to touch her. Its the way of the world. Unless your going to keep her in the closet and touch her yourself all men will away be stranger till you know them, then you can talk about dirty little things about your daughter

[Hunnter2k3]

Such an obvious troll, it isn't even funny.

Nobody on the internets like patents.

[strangelyenough]

I'll touch my own patent, thank you very much.

[billmosby]

Is there really any difference between a thumbnail icon and an icon signifying a file of a particular kind? Any non-obvious, useful difference? I ask because I actually find those OS X icons that are tiny representations of a spreadsheet, complete with the proper aspect ratio of the contents of the spreadsheet, a bit less informative than a standard file-type or icon would be.

Not that obviousness, prior art, or uselessness ever stopped the USPTO from issuing a patent.

In this case, I give them credit for taking such a long time to issue the patent that it actually indicates that some thought was put into the process. Or something.

[OctoChops]

this is ridiculous. the government needs to start doing something about these frivolous patent lawsuits

[rhsc]

like awarding them (lawsuits and patents alike) to patent trolls like they're doing? government action seems to be the problem, in this case

[Hep Cat]

"the government needs to start doing something about these frivolous patent lawsuits"

Hiring competent patent reviewers at the USPTO and limiting the amount of time a patent can be extended would be a great first step.

[kilabite]

Yes, that's what we need more government regulation. Great idea!!!!!

[brokenlaw]

No we don't need more Gov regulation what we need is real regulation, not this useless version we have had for some years now. Its time to put some real new rules and stop this broad ass patent system that is just designed for trolls and lawyers.

[Hunnter2k3]

I have a better idea, kill patents, period
Or kill non-tangible patents, at the least. (i'd still prefer the former)

Down with patents, down with copyright, down with trademark!
Long-live freedom.
If only the world went that way...

[gabeheim]

Here's an idea: Require every approved patent to include the names, educational background, and professional experience of the people who approved the patent.

[wkhai]

LOL, how about the courts issuing the plaintiffs a fine equivalent to the amount demanded if the patent lawsuit is found to be frivolous? that would ensure that plaintiffs are damn sure they have a case before wasting everybody's time... oh, and fine the lawyers representing them double that amount as well, plus making the plaintiffs pay for the defendants' legal fees

[fgwgner]

Michelle are you sure its a michigan based company. It says in the law suite that their are a Arizona based company

[jinx101a]

That's funny because there were news reports a few days ago that it was an Indiana company. Either way, these companies that's sole business model is to patent and then sue is ridiculous.

[solitare_pax]

These patent pirates are pilfering my patience!

Out of curiousity, who did President Bush appoint to the Patent Office to do these approvals anyways? His favorite horse from the Enron ranch?

[brokenlaw]

Close, i think it was the guy who brushes the horses.

[strangelyenough]

They call him "The Patent Whisperer."

[Thomas, David]

strangelyenough

I just busted a gut!!

[professionaladventurer]

I like the permanent injunction part. Good luck getting ALL the consumers to stop using the patent. I am pretending for a second like Cygnus really owns it, ha ha HA!

[BtmnHatesRbn]

Shouldn't these thieves also sue Xerox, who created the GUI back in the late 1960s? And the Orthodox Church, who was painting icons back in First Century, during the Roman Empire's sunset?

[brokenlaw]

Yes he should, and the lawyer should charge him until it hurts and then some more, and finally when its over, take his house. Leave his sorry ass destitute.

[SJ2571]

"E-mails seeking comment [...] were not immediately returned" -- Well, duh! Does ANYONE respond to an e-mail immediately after it's been sent? You probably sent it after 5pm too. I wish reporters would stop using this cliched phrase. Nobody will respond immediately to an e-mail or phone call, no matter what. So stop saying it. It makes you look cheap and uneducated.

[thadu83]

hilarious ain't it?
suing based on a patent that was given march 2008, and this 'technology' has been in existence for years and years now!

[MafiaPenguin]

Patent from 2008:
Mac OS X, Vista, (AND XP) all are earlier than that!

[Mergatroid Mania]

To be fair, the reporter does say "first applied for it back in 2001 as a continuation to a 1998 application".

But even by 1998 there were lots of samples of "previous art", and besides I thought the bone heads at the U.S. patent office were supposed to stop granting patents for things that are obvious?

[jinx101a]

The patent system, though needed is seriously flawed in more ways than just technology. The fact that companies can patent genetic make up I find appalling. Perhaps in 20 years you or I can be sued for having a gene that has been pantented for having anti-cancer properties. It sounds sci-fi, but isn't beyond the realm of possibility under the current rules (the idea being that, they can sell this gene and by you having it, are infringing on their patent since you can pass it along). Far fetched, I know, but it displays other ways in which the patent system is seriously flawed.

[sensi2]

US Software patents are retarded, call me captain obvious.