Comments on: Intel rethinks Netbooks: 'Fine for an hour' but...
The smallish designs may not be the next big thing after all. Intel, whose Atom chip powers most Netbooks, says it now foresees mostly incremental gains.
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So what do I need the netbook for? I keep my old laptop in the living room by the couch, so it's always handy, got my work laptop that's always with me, and I have a computer in every room of my apartment minus the bathroom which just might be the place a netbook belongs ;)
As for would be limitations, The 16GB SSD runs fast and silently. The only reason I personally would need a larger hard drive is for my media collection, but if I'm on the go, that's already on my iPod, isn't it? I found the keyboard a little hard to use for about 5 minutes, then I adjusted to the different layout, just as anyone does for any new keyboard.. The screen is perfectly large enough to read easily (no different than a paperback or newspaper) and I have a slew of windows managing options with Linux to make the most of a limited screen.
Clearly netbooks are not for everyone. However, there are at least as many people, like myself, that find this class of computer useful and exciting. I would guess that within a few years, the traditional notebook market and the sub-notebook market will be one in the same as better balances are being struck between cost, size and power all of the time as technology advances. In the meanwhile, my netbook has been a no-regrets purchase.
I think there is also a consumer market--the "shrink wrap laptop". Make the speakers a little better, and add some snazzy skins. The 'tweens and young teenagers will love it.
Heck, the Gateway computer my parents just bought 3 months ago..... there is a BETTER one out now at the same price point, with upgrades everything: bigger hard drive, faster processor, faster DVD-Drive, and a bunch of little addons.
As a teen, I find my MSI Wind perfectly capable of playing mindless flash games. It takes no great feat of processing power to animate a few bloody stick figures. No one my age plays those games anyway, we have better things to do than rack up a few high scores in online games. Before you post, at least do a simple test by opening a game in your browser and checking your CPU usage. Go on, I'll wait. Notice that it hardly peaks past 10%, even on an old PIII?
I think you need to look up the definition of discrete graphics, because I looked on Tigerdirect and none of the laptops 700-800 had discrete graphics. Merely because the graphics chipset is Nvidia or ATI doesn't make it discrete graphics because both companies DO make integrated graphics solutions as well, which is a common misconpception. While ATI and Nvidia's integrated solutions tend to be a little better than Intel's integrated solutions neither Intel, ATI, nor Nvidia's integrated solutions provide stellar performance for games or graphics editing. Ironically, some of the laptops in $700 price range were using integrated chipsets that were only marginally better than those on netbooks. In other words your "good computer" can't do much more than a netbook graphics wise.
That isn't to say there aren't any advantages to a larger screen and an optical drive, but you aren't going to get any laptop that is decent for gaming or any other heavy graphics until you get to >$1000. Below that and you will virtually never see anything with true discrete graphics. I agree with you that some people would be much happier with said laptop, but I think you are being deceptive in implying that you will be able to play anything better than some basic online games with a $700 laptop.
The Netbook market is for people who want it for more then hour of usage. They don't want to take their $1000+ laptop with them every time, a 300-400$ netbook is more then enough for them to watch some movies, listen to some music, surf the web and use some web services, write a mail, check documents, use IM, and perhaps some light editing of photos (with things like GIMP offline on pixlr online). These are the main usages of those netbooks, and those netbooks can handle it just fine, and you can use it for several hours (depending on your battery.. 6 cells are great!), as long as the keyboard is good and the mouse pad works well, people will buy them and use them. For more then hour!
Here's a scenario I've seen few weeks ago: A family with 3 kids fighting all the times who'll use the computer. I suggested the father to have their main PC for the kids as a gaming machine, and buy 2 more netbooks, one for each kids, since those kids do most of the times web surfing, skype and IM. He invested $800 in buying 2 netbooks (MSI Wind), and guess what? suddenly no more fighting, each kid with their machine. Problem solved!
With the economy situation as it stands now, people are looking for some good solution *CHEAP*. Netbooks cannot play Far Cry? no video editing? so what? use your main machine for that and do the other stuff when you're out with a netbook. simple, easy, cheap.
In your scenario, it's most likely the kids will be at home the majority of the time when they are using their netbooks, so the battery hours is a moot point, as I am assuming your friend has electricity and power outlets in his house. $400-600 can get you a pretty damn good laptop right now, or you could save a hundred or two bucks and go with a smaller, underpowered netbook that does far less...
I was actually looking at an MSI Wind at Newegg and decided against it, as it and other netbooks seem drastically overpriced for what they have in 'em compared to laptops I see every week in sales papers.
Netbooks are lame. In a year or so, they'll be gone and people will be wondering, "What were we thinking?"
Not everyone's needs will be suited for a netbook, which is the same for mainstream laptop or a desktop workstation.
While you can do real work on them. It's not even close to ideal. Ultraportable notebooks make a lot more sense. it's the price that drives netbooks. When they increase in size to match ultraportables but still keep the price low. Then you have something real.
The use for a netbook that I'd have is while gaming to look up the walkthrough, maps etc. However for that use any old laptop would do and there is nothing special about a netbook. Thus far I've not seen anything worth tossing my old garage sale Ultraportable that cost less than the netbooks anyway while doing more work.
That disatisfaction would likely stem from the akward positioning of keys on the keyboard, most notably the shift key on the right hand side. Also, it's nice of people to make broad generalizations without telling us specifics, like which type of netbooks are returned most often? iPhones are returned at a high rate too, but does that negate the touch screen phone market?
Also, like you mentioned. The constant battle of screen size. You have to basically make the computer smaller while at the same time making the screen bigger! That's a job I would not want. Also, you have to cram as much hardware into the thing as possible while making the machine lighter at the same time. This has got to be a designers worst nightmare. Then, just when you think you're out of the woods you still have to figure out how to make the battery last! It's a like a lose lose only for you to realize it has no CD drive either. grrr.
The only reason netbooks are used at all is that computing power is finally more than enough for the average user to do their average tasks. New focus on lightweight software and web apps haven't hurt here either.
Now, if I were building netbooks I'd probably see if R&D could get some sort of mini projector in it and do away with the screen all together. Just project the image onto something, but I don't know if that's possible right now and I don't know if it would work. I think I'd like to see a prototype first.
I was looking at a new video card for my desktop...... these things are HUGE that I was looking at, and they are in the 100 dollar range. I was thinking "Jeez..... why so darn BIG!?" Answer: the thermal cooling needs. the cooling necessity was the ONLY reason why the card was so darn big, even according to ATI and NVidia. You would think, with all our knowledge, that we would have found a room-temperature superconductor now that doesn't need cooling at all.
The only place where laptops really get more expensive related to performance is when you start trying to pack serious power into them where just like you said the heat from the graphics chips is the major concern. Now, I'm right there with you on the video cards. I mean, I love my video card, but too Big!. Too Hot!. and they use Too Much Power! What to do about that I couldn't tell ya though.
But the iPhone could replace a netbook nicely.
When you consider some of the fantastic developments that are here now, like video out, the ablity to use bluetooth keyboards, predictive texting, and even more amazing stuff on the horizon, like laser projectors (www.microvision.com) and more, it really is feasible for many people to consider using their phones as their only computer.
So - $500+ for a loaded netbook or $500+ for a small notebook (but I already have a laptop) or $300 for a capable smart phone that does more in some areas and is a better compliment to my existing laptop? Such was my thinking... Currently I'm actually thinking that I can ditch Comcast and rely on 3G tethering for Internet access, and yes, I said see ya to Ameritech a long long time ago...
However, the latest designs have viewable 10" screens, 90%+ keyboards, decent processing power, and battery life in the 5-7 hour range. And they run Windows XP, which works fine with that hardware, almost everybody knows how to use it, and has plenty of software available for it.
A lot, but not all, of the usability design features are being worked out. But more needs to be done. Instead of bemoaning the fact that this isn't going to be the next gigantic thing, how about seeing what it takes to get battery life to 10 hours, with ubiquitous Internet access via built-in cellular, WiFi or WiMax.
What the netbook has shown is that people want an AFFORDABLE tool that they can take anywhere to accomplish the basics - Internet access, email, basic document viewing and editing, and enjoying multimedia. Let's see which companies truly understand this and continue to develop new netbooks.
I do hope that they continue to be made for a while. I haven't bought one yet, I'd hate to see them become a rare specialty item and have the prices skyrocket. I haven't been able to save up enough in my Ham Radio budget for a computer yet. (I'm still paying for my HF rig) but a tiny laptop is exactly the thing I need. Before them I was trying to figure out a way to make a small enough box with a mini/pico/nano ITX board.
I want one for email, web and techie stuff while also watching tv. Just enough performance for my needs and at a price point I can swallow for a toy.
I keep a 32 GB USB thumb drive and on it are synced whole directories from my server at the office and my files from the home laptop. Essentially, that thumb drive is the middle-man that keeps all in sync file-wise. Sounds complicated, but it's quite simple. And it means I have access to everything from any where without carrying a lot of extra weight with me.
Just the other day, I was in a cab on the way home. And old client wanted very specific information that would easily lead to a large sale. My HP 2133 8.9 runs XP Pro, has a 250 GB hard and a 1280x768 display res. I opened that machine, which also has a Sprint Broadband card, and I connected to SalesForce, opened my excel pre-made calcs and ran the numbers for this client, created a PDF and sent it off in email. Updated his info in SalesForce. All from the back seat of a taxi cab. And I can you the cab drive who saw all this couldn't stop asking me questions about it.
Is the HP2133 a laptop replacement? No. It runs a 1 watt Via processor. It's not going to play games. It's not great at graphical anything. But it runs Office and web apps with ease. And it's light enough to carry anywhere without starting to feel like a heavy brick. It's so small that it fits on the tray table of any airline seat. And I have used to for days on end when I travel. It's easy to get used to. I just have lighter apps on it. The full pro office suite is on it. I use Media Monkey rather than Zune on it, because Media Monkey is easy on the processor. I have a few games that are more a throwback to the 80s. Light, simple and fun for when you are stuck in a hotel. Things like Bejeweled.I have a Mobi book reader on it too. As long as you stick to office, web, and simple apps, you won't even realize you are using a 1 watt processor. But if you want to watch video from QuickTime, you will see it drops frames and not be a stellar performer. I know why I bought it. I use it for a specific purposes. And as I said, this is my 2nd Netbook. The first being the ASUS. So I am sold on the concept.
My Employer uses a Fujitsu LifeBook solely. It gets attached to a larger monitor at the office. People who really do carry around computers with them everywhere love NetBooks. I love my Tosh 15.4" laptop, which only cost $599. But no way am I going to carry it all over the place. It's a large laptop. And I like that it is large. But believe me. If you want to carry something around a lot. You don't want large. You don't want heavy. You want a small foot print so it can fit anywhere. I use mine everywhere. On the table of restaurants, tray tables, cabs, airports, even on BART in San Francisco. And every time I pull this gem out, people always ask me about it.
You want a good screen and a large keyboard. That is what was broken in the ASUS. It was 800 x 480 and the keys were tiny. The shift key was in the wrong place and that made for errors trying to type. But the HP2133 is a 92% full size keyboard, 8.9" screen with 1280 x 768 res. You can do excel on this baby. And it has the storage and memory of any laptop. 250 GB HD and a 2 GBs of RAM. Plenty for XP. The only thing holding it back is that 1 watts VIA processor and it's very small screen. But that's why I bought it. SMALL, LIGHT. It has all the features you'd need. an Express Card slot, 2 USBs, VGA, SD. This thing has more ports many 15" laptops. My 15.4" Tosh also has an Express Card slot. And so I can use Sprint Cellular Broadband when I need to.
NetBooks are popular. Virtually everyone I know either has one, or wants one. We need a $399 - $699 NetBooks. It's enough range to provide a solution to everything. Do kids really need $2,499 Macs on their desks at school, or would a $399 Netbook allow them to take notes in class and then sync with their larger notebook later in a dorm? You want a fully capable very portable Netbook in addition to your laptop. And that's not as expensive as it sounds. My 15.4 Tosh was $599. My HP 2133 was $699. That's $1,298 for both machines. Not bad at all.
Alex Alexzander
I purposely paid attention when I visit or walk by Starbucks. Nope, nada. Among all the laptops people use (just about one on each table), I haven't seen a single netbook.
It's seems to me like the economics are to buy a decked out desktop, where you don't pay a premium for portability, and as cheap a portable as you can, where you do pay a premium for portability. For instance, you save around $1k buying a desktop with the same features as a laptop. So, buy a desktop and use the savings to buy a cheap laptop. Unless, of course, you need every application or work long hours when you travel.
For email, web browsing, and writing, the netbook is perfect for me. Thank you, MSI.
Since Apple won't make one, I bought the Dell Mini. My wife has an Aspire One for <$350.
They are great little computers and light. I hope Intel understands this and keeps making the Atom.
And these little boxes are no slouches, admit-ably mine has an aftermarket RAM upgrade from 1G to 1.5 G, but it runs a full linux distro, apache, memcache, mysql and php, and allows me to demonstrate websites at full speed on the move.
Will my netbook replace the macbook, no, when im at home I use the mac, but on the road im more likely to reach for the netbook.
It has all my mail on it, via IMAP which makes it easy to handle a single inbox on multiple machines, i can answer etc on what ever machine i happen to be sat in front off.
The 8.9 inch screen on the aspire is perfectly adequate for extended use, i run eclipse on my machine to give me a full development workstation, complete with web-server and database server etc while i'm completely disconnected from the world, such as being on a flight etc.
These are fantastic little devices, weighing in a few pounds, and offering near laptop capabilities. Small enough for a glove compartment, a handbag, or a large pocket as previously listed.
Dont knock it until you try it.
PS: on and the high return rates have more to do with the stripped down linux distros that are shipped as standard on the lower end ones, than dissatisfaction with the form factor, either a full linux or windows-XP fixes that, return rates are 4 times higher for the linux versions than the windows versions. Mainly because of consumers suffering the culture shock of operating a non-MS operating system.
Like me for example. I just sold my laptop, a powerful Dell XPS 13" because my netbook fulfilled all my needs on the go.
Back in the day, I got by with a 3 year old off-lease Thinkpad X Series and my desktop. That was then. I didn't even have Daemon Tools.
Now, I have a brand new netbook which gets 6-7 hours of battery life and does most of my tasks with ease but most importantly, is small enough to be carried practically everywhere I go. My wife can put it in her purse like a paperback novel and take it out anywhere.
Instead of a wasteful expensive and smallish 12-13" laptop or an outrageously expensive 9-11" ultraportable like a Fujitsu or Sony TZ, this netbook fills my needs perfectly.
I'm sure my setup isn't for everyone, but I have to say I really think Ihave found perfection in the way I deal with my data. I do sales, and I am something of a tech and a designer all rolled into one. I need my data all the time. My Office PC is a machine I built which as a portrait display running a web app on one screen, and a landscape discplay mostly running email and excel, but somewhat often running the Adobe suite. My larger 15.4" tosh is a smaller version of the same thing, which runs at home and sits on a desk. It's never really moved from that desk.
The HP NetBook is the portable. That machines goes everywhere and runs XP Pro, Office, Salesforce, and some utilities. It just has Corel PhotoPaint X2 so I can see graphics people send me. A PDF writer which is OpenSource rather than the Adobe Acrobat Pro which my Tosh and desktop have. In other words, its a lighter, sub-set meant to go with me and provide all the tools I'll need in a very portable and moving environment.
I was actually one of the first people to get my hands on that ASUS when it released. The screen res needed to a little better. Everything about it was almost good enough, but not there. I finally decided on the HP, which is twice the price almost, and more once I added Office Pro for $399, Corel PhotoPaint for $79, and Media Monkey for $19. Some other tools I am sure I forgot. But it truly is a fully working laptop, just smaller. Some NetBooks are not fully functional. They don't have 1280 x 768, which is just about the same as a 15.4". Many have small SSD drives, or very little space. I have 250 GBs of storage. And many have small amounts of ram. I have 2 GBs. Many don't have Express Card slots. Mine does, and so I use A Sprint Card for mobile broadband.
Seriously, anyone who uses what I use would very likely agree, it's just about as close to a full laptop as it gets. I bought a very nice ultra slim and portable Sony DVD drive, which I admit I rarely ever carry with me. But it's nice to have just in case. The HP is missing an optical drive. Other than that, and other that it using a Via processor, it's just about identical in capability to that of a full laptop.
Alex Alexzander
Especially if I have to use it as a cell phone also. I can't afford to have cells and two aircards. I hope there is a wall mount for these netbooks for inside a vehicle. I like that you can add a bluetooth keyboard, and add a larger monitor, well at least on the asus901. Does anyone know if you can change the settings to keep the netbook on even if you close it? I was thinking, if you could use Skype with a bluetooth headset (do they make these for Skype or other VOIP programs online?) then you could close the netbook but keep Skype going. What if I get a Skype phone, can I use it by sinchronizing with my netbook aircard?
Also, with an external drive, could you add a program like Garmin or whatever maps program that could be downloaded. With an external hard drive you could play dvd's, correct? I am also looking into this for my spouse, he's a truck driver and would like an all in one device.
I know, I'm asking for a lot! Just like when I was a kid. I wanted the doll that could laugh, cry, eat, need diapers, crawl & walk. Never did get one!
- by ba3a November 28, 2008 6:17 PM PST
- I wonder what Scatman thinks.
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