eBay sellers to be banned from criticizing buyers
In a move to curtail retaliation by vengeful sellers in its feedback system, eBay plans to prohibit sellers from posting negative feedback about their customers.
Beginning in May, sellers will not be able to leave negative or even neutral comments about their customers, only positive feedback, said spokesman Usher Lieberman.
(Credit:
eBay)
But Lieberman says some sellers have been abusing the system, retaliating against customers who leave them negative feedback. And that has left many buyers afraid to leave honest comments, or even use the site, period, he says.
"The No. 1 reason buyers cited for decreasing or ceasing their activity on eBay was negative unwarranted retaliatory feedback they received from sellers," Lieberman says. "There has been a four-fold increase in this over the last several years. It's cited as a bigger problem than even not receiving shipment."
Meanwhile, eBay is offering more solutions to protect sellers when customers don't pay.
The move is the latest in a series of changes that involves how search results on the site will be displayed and recently announced fees for listing items.
For the record, I have nothing but good things to say about the person I bought a white embroidered linen shower curtain from last month on eBay.
Elinor Mills covers Internet security and privacy. She joined CNET News in 2005 after working as a foreign correspondent for Reuters in Portugal and writing for The Industry Standard, the IDG News Service, and the Associated Press. E-mail Elinor. 
This is a bad move on eBay's part and just one of many reasons that I will not sell there anymore. As a former PowerSeller, I can tell you stories about customers screwing me over and me having to take it, with little or no recourse. All I could do was leave negative feedback. Under this new system, even that is taken away from sellers.
Pathetic. Buyers can trash a seller, but sellers cannot give honest feedback. This renders the feedback system absolutely useless.
I've stopped bothering with ebay because I've twice had sellers
give me negative feedback when they refused to sell me the
items that I've won that have been at prices above their reserve
but below what they were hoping to get. In both cases they
were selling tickets to playoff games and hoped to get well over
face value for their tickets. In brief, they wouldn't sell me the
tickets that I won and actually had the nerve to complain to ebay
that I refused to pay them. In addition, they posted negative
feedback about me, suggesting versions of my not being a
serious bidder and that refused to pay them. As a result, I won't
use ebay, it's simply not worse the hassle, and ebay wasn't
interested in knowing what was going on. So I'd suggest that
the feedback system was useless before they made this change,
at least from a buyer's perspective.
I found out why they had almost perfect records, I was told on more than one occation I would receive negative feedback if I said anything negative about my purchase with these sellers.
For me, the Ebay experience left a bad taste in my mouth. I could not be truthful for fear of unwarrented retaliation. How was I protected?
I agree with you that the feedback system is useless but for the opposite reason you state. As a buyer, I cannot count on a sellers rating since that seller could have obtained that rating through retaliation.
I think you should be protected from bad buyers. I feel I should be protected from unscrupulous sellers. I don't know if Ebay's changes will work, but I know the present system isn't.
This story is about abuse, not use.
Some sellers threaten buyers with bad feedback right on their item descriptions; effectively extorting good feedback regardless of quality of service or merchandise.
anything. I was a regular user for many years, beginning in the
mid-nineties, buying any number of things from rare comic
books to used mac laptops to fossils.
I got burned a few times, most notably a bunch of poorly
mastered DVDs which were almost certainly pirated from a VCR
collection. And, over the years, I became more and more leery of
the process, the anxiety about whether a bid would go through,
whether a shipment would arrive, whether the product would be
as advertised.
My biggest gripe? Not the feedback system (though one seller--
the buy with the pirated DVDs did retaliate against me). Rather,
the bidding system, which I am convinced tends to maximize
prices for sellers.
Now I do my shopping for used cds and comics over on
Amazon, where the prices are lower (and fixed!) and the service
more dependable.
But I do miss the ethos of the early eBay years. Most sellers were
amateurs back then, selling stuff they didn't need any more. And
in buying you could build up good environmental karma.
Nowadays they're all professionals, selling mostly new stuff at
discount prices. The amateurs have moved to Craigslist.
I know that sometimes comsumers have unreasonable demands.
If a buyer gives a seller a negative review, the seller should have the right to rebut that point of view.
I remember being in line at a local electronics store last year. The guy ahead of me was upset that the store wouldn't take back the portable DVD player he had purchased. Upset enough to be raising his voice.
Too bad the portable DVD player was in pieces. There was absolutely no reason the store should have taken back an abused and broken item. Yet, if this had of taken place on eBay, the buyer would have the right to tell everyone how he got ripped off by the seller, but the seller would not have the right to tell people what actually happened, and how the customer was trying to rip off both the seller and possibily the manufacturer if he was trying to claim warranty.
If I was a big seller on eBay, I would seriously start thinking about switching auction companies.
Does selling on eBay not actually mean literally "The customer is always right", even if he blatantly is not right?
The truth is a three edged sword. You're view, My view and what actually happened. Leave it up to the people to read your view and my view and decide the truth for themselves.
You gotta play their game, don't CAVE!!!!
My main eBay gripe is that sellers wait till they get their feedback to give yours. If I pay on time, that's the sellers basis for feedback and all the buyer should be judged on. You can make an argument that there are some buyers that go freaky after they get the item, but that's not usually the case.
The strategy I would suggest is that comments for sellers remain in unseen limbo until they have posted their comments on the buyer.
Since many sellers won't answer complaints till a negative is made, a second strategy would be to have a 'cold war': Don't finalize negative comments until the parties have a chance to respond and work it out.
Finally, I wish negative comments could be appealed to eBay and removed. My first negative comment was from a troll who created fake auctions just to create fake negatives.
Nonpayment is not the only problem sellers face and this move will significantly weaken sellers on eBay. At the least, I think Sellers should be allowed to publicly respond to negative feedback so someone reading the review can at least hear both sides of the story when disputes are involved.
Also, the thing with buyers being afraid to leave negative feedback is a bit of a one-sided view. If a buyer does suffer from retaliation by a seller, they can always setup a new account and its not that difficult to buy stuff with 0 feedback. But if you're a seller and you receive negative feedback, your ability to sell gets hurt and setting up a new account would only hurt you more since people don't want to buy things from individuals with zero feedback.
Ok. But what if you have worked hard to get the repuation you deserve and one or two immature people put a black mark on your record. Sure you could get another account. But the point is that you should not be forced to do so because of unfair acts from others. It's like living in a neighbourhood a long time and making ties and somone comes along and starts to stir stuff up with you putting you in a bad light. Sure you could move and start again somewhere else. But why should you have to because of someone else being difficult?
First, you mention that most eBayers are people who occasionally buy and sell things. Well, that's me, I've been a member since 2001 and my feedback rating is 100%. I take pride in paying usually minutes after an auction ends, and never more than a day after the auction ends. I also take pride in shipping out anything I've sold the morning of the very next business day.
Now, I've bought a few things from sellers, paid within minutes, left positive feedback as soon as the item arrives, and yet, the seller doesn't leave me positive feedback. Why?
And how about where I pay within minutes, get a broken item in a poorly packaged white envelope, try repeatedly to get a response from the seller about it, and then, left with no recourse, leave negative feedback only to find that they're going to leave negative feedback as well. And you want me to forget about the rating I've worked so hard to achieve and open a new account? Were you dropped on your head when you were little, or was it a more recent incident?
Please put more thought into something before posting nonsense and "solutions" that don't solve anything and only suggest that the victims suffer more than they already have.
Too many sellers say "I only leave feedback after you leave me feedback". If the buyer has paid promptly why wouldn't an honest seller leave positive feedback for the buyer?
The rip off artists have abused the eBay feedback system for too long. Change was way overdue.
agreed to pay the seller some money in exchange for the
money. So when he has the money, my side of this is done, and I
should get the feedback that I'm a good payer right away, since
I've paid which was my side of the agreement.
The Ebay contract to buy doesn't include a clause that I have to
leave positive feedback as a buyer in order to receive it from the
seller. (does it?)
I don't sell much on Ebay, but when I do I always leave the
feedback to the buyer as soon as they've paid me
with an automated response. I never had any negative feedback
until I was forced into leaving a negative one for a seller, and
within seconds I was hit with one. I tried for months for eBay to
resolve it, and they wouldn't. I think there should be a system in
place for removal of this type of feedback.
But here's to Ebay for protecting the buyers!
To this end I suggest a kudos system. Instead of a list of positives and negatives. Fore example, My friend has about 50 positives and one negative. A good record. Given the ratio most people would overlook the negative and chalk it up to a bad day or an immature participant. But if we were to see a ratio of the number of completed transactions to the number of kudos, or positives, it would give as well a rounded picture of the seller or buyer. If someone were to be unhappy they could choose to not give kudos and the ratio would drop slightly. If someone felt they were wronged by the lack of comment then they too could simply decline to leave a comment. People with high transaction to kudos ratios would be trusted more often. It is simple and plain. Moreover the transition to this system is done very easily. Ebay has all the data and could just remove the negatives and leave positives vs the number of completed transactions.
On a personal note I could see this method benefiting buyers and sellers alike. If I completed a transaction and received no comment it would compell me to communicate with the other party and discuss what I could do better or even make amends. Either way it's better than a maddening and anticlimatic fight with Ebay to remove an unwarranted comment.
never left feedback even though I left a positive for them. This
would give me a 90% rating instead of my current 100% What could
I possibly do to do better than that??? I even say thank you in the
notes section of my payment.
Dana
A lot of the typed positive comments are meaningless anyway. Many sellers don't do personalized feedback. When you have dozens or hundreds a month to leave you don't type all those. We use an automated feedback page. We type in our choice of comments once (I wrote mine 18 months ago) and they are randomly applied to buyers. You can leave feedback for 200 people with 3 clicks or so. Pretty silly really. If you want to check, go to a seller with more than 1000 feedback and click on "feedback left for others."
In case you are wondering, you can only leave positive feedback automatically :-)
I've won auctions, paid within minutes, notified the seller of the items arrival the day it arrived, and thanked them for their business, and left them positive feedback, only to have them leave no feedback for me.
Trying to build my rating, this doesn't help.
http://www.hagens-berman.com/eBay_classaction.htm
"antique" lobby card for a film. Everything was fine except it
was nothing but a color copy - even though the listing was for a
"genuine" lobby card. I left negative feedback after they refused
to give me my money back and they retaliated in kind. Ebay
refused to do ANYTHING about them selling phony merchandise
or the negative listing.
A couple more experiences and I've come to the conclusion that
Ebay is nothing but the worlds largest fencing operation.
Buyers can unfairly trash a seller with feedback, but they are not able to rip sellers off other than bad checks or fake money orders. (I only use PayPal, If your credit is so bad you cant have a PayPal account, then I don't want your check.)
Once a seller has my money, they can sell me an item that is FAKE, broken, used, refurbished, or a crummy knock-off with a look-alike name.
Slimy sellers are always selling items that are "rare" with a hundred identical listings or "vintage" which means even though it was made last week, its a copy of something old.
Slimy sellers scam on shipping. For instance, its a SCAM to sell a green laser pointer with a Buy It Now price of $10 with a shipping charge of $35.00 sent by UPS. If it arrives broken (or was broken when it was shipped...) the seller will be happy to give you a $10 refund. Just mail it back, at your own expense of course.
Slimy sellers scam by selling "links" to get the pictured item for "free."
Argh! I'm sick of sellers! Again, I have 100% positive feedback, have never been scammed, but I have had sellers that ship LATE, don't buy the INSURANCE I paid extra for, leave out a few key parts that I don't get until I ask, rip me off for shipping.
Ebay used to be a much cooler place until it got taken over by drop shippers that don't actually have the product they are selling and powersellers holding feedback hostage.
dkadc: "Buyers can unfairly trash a seller with feedback, but they are not able to rip sellers off other than bad checks or fake money orders."
What are you talking about here?! There are MANY more cons as buyers than sellers. They calim not to have recieved ANY product and demand a refund. They send back items that were NOT shipped and claim "well, that was what was in the box".
You should try selling on ebay - you'd lear something.
dkadc: "Once a seller has my money, they can sell me an item that is FAKE, broken, used, refurbished, or a crummy knock-off with a look-alike name."
That is a LIE. You have tons of recourses that you can take. Everything from stopping the sale via your credit card company to contactin ebay's support team for assistance. If you get ripped off on ebay as a buyer it's simply because you have not taken the time to look at all of your options.
dkadc: "Slimy sellers are always selling items that are "rare" with a hundred identical listings or "vintage" which means even though it was made last week, its a copy of something old."
Ever heard of ebay's search feature? If 1,000 people are selling a "one of a kind item" DON'T BUY ONE! Just because you are shopping on ebay that doesn't excuse you from actually thinking and protecting yourself from obvious fraud. If you saw a car that "runs on water, will never wear out or break down, and rides better than a Lexus for $100" on the street woudl you fall for it? (Sadly I think you would.)
dkadc: "Slimy sellers scam on shipping. For instance, its a SCAM to sell a green laser pointer with a Buy It Now price of $10 with a shipping charge of $35.00 sent by UPS. If it arrives broken (or was broken when it was shipped...) the seller will be happy to give you a $10 refund. Just mail it back, at your own expense of course."
You really take the cake. Shipping involves expenses like boxes, packing materials, protective liners, insurance and the time it takes to actually box up the items and haul them down to UPS. Some ebay sellers even have their own baoxes printed so you know an item came from them. These things are called "business expenses" and, yes dkadc, expenses are passed on to consumers. (I'd hide my real name with a post like this too bro'.)
As far as returning it, why shouldn't you pay to return it? You read the description and ordered it. The shipper shipped it to you in good faith. And, again, if you think you were "ripped off" you have at least 2 ways to get your money back - ESPECIALLY since you said that you use PayPal to do your purchases.
dkadc: "Argh! I'm sick of sellers! Again, I have 100% positive feedback, have never been scammed, but I have had sellers that ship LATE, don't buy the INSURANCE I paid extra for, leave out a few key parts that I don't get until I ask..."
If you have never been scammed what the hell is your beef with anybody on ebay?
People get sick. Shipments get delayed. Orders get lost. Things get shipped late. Parts are sometimes missed when shipping to hundreds of people every day. It's called the real world - go live it and see for yourself.
As far as your insurance, did you specifically say the insurance was to be bought through the shipping company? Lots of ebay companies (even 1 person comapnies) have insurance on their business that covers things like damaged shipments and they take on the risk themselves for a fee. Make sure you are asking for the right thing.
dkadc: "...rip me off for shipping."
How exactly? By charging you for the materials and time and expenses that it takes for them to do that job for you? IF you don't want to pay shipping, go pick it up yourself. If you can;t pick it up yourself and don't want to pay for shipping, just don't buy it. Nobody's got a gun to your head (no matter how much I wish it were so).
dkadc: "Ebay used to be a much cooler place until it got taken over by drop shippers that don't actually have the product they are selling and powersellers holding feedback hostage."
Why shouldn't sellers be allowed their say in a feedback dispute? Obviously you talk a LOT about things you have absolutely NO knowledge of, and I'm sure you don't limit your unfounded accusations (remember - you said you've never been scammed) to CNET.
And, what's wrong with drop shipping? As long as you get what you pay for, where's the fire?
You need to run an online business for a while - a profitable one - then come back and recant your rant.
As others have said, a buyer can get their money back from Paypal
dkadc: Once a seller has my money, they can sell me an item that is FAKE, broken, used, refurbished, or a crummy knock-off with a look-alike name.
Unfortunately, a rip off buyer can tell Paypal the item is broken, fake, etc. when it's not and they can still get their money back. An honest seller no longer has that product to sell, and has the money removed from their account.
dkadc: Slimy sellers are always selling items that are "rare" with a hundred identical listings or "vintage" which means even though it was made last week, its a copy of something old.
Do your research. If it seems too good to be true...
dkadc: Slimy sellers scam on shipping. For instance, its a SCAM to sell a green laser pointer with a Buy It Now price of $10 with a shipping charge of $35.00 sent by UPS. If it arrives broken (or was broken when it was shipped...) the seller will be happy to give you a $10 refund. Just mail it back, at your own expense of course.
Your best defence here is to READ the listing. If the listing says $35 shipping, that's what you are agreeing to when you bid. If you think the shipping is too high, DON'T BID.
dkadc: Slimy sellers scam by selling "links" to get the pictured item for "free."
Don't buy those items then.
dkadc: Argh! I'm sick of sellers! Again, I have 100% positive feedback, have never been scammed, but I have had sellers that ship LATE, don't buy the INSURANCE I paid extra for, leave out a few key parts that I don't get until I ask, rip me off for shipping.
Mistakes happen. People get sick, have family emergencies, forget the extras. Send a (nice) email asking them what's up if it's late, or let them know they forgot something. Don't assume they are trying to rip you off, and don't go on the attack right away. One person businesses are run by PEOPLE. Cut them a little slack.
dkadc: Ebay used to be a much cooler place until it got taken over by drop shippers that don't actually have the product they are selling and powersellers holding feedback hostage.
There's nothing wrong with dropshipping. Amazon does it, most of the big boys do it. It usually works fine.
I set up automatic feedback so that buyers got a positive as soon as they paid last December. I shut it off in January. In that month I got savaged by 2 buyers that didn't read the listing and since I had already given them positive feedback saw no reason to send me an email expressing their issues. They just gave me a negative - my first ones in 8 years. Since I turned off the auto-feedback, magic, no more negative feedback. THAT's why we hold feedback hostage -- Lazy buyers who don't have enough common courtesy to send an email before they trash our reputation.
Sellers have responsibilities. So do Buyers. Sellers should be accurate in the listing, sell honest goods, ship quickly and correct any errors that they caused. Buyers should read the listing closely, do some research, realize if it sounds like its too good to be true, it probably is, pay promptly, and communicate with the seller if their is a problem. If BOTH Buyer and seller do their part everyone is happy.
eBay is not the problem. People are. You will find rip off artists everywhere, eBay, your local antique shop, the flea market, the street corner. People sell bogus goods and people buy with bogus money (bouncing checks, bad credit cards, counterfeit money) These problems were there way before eBay. They probably date back to the very first marketplace thousands of years ago. :-)
If you want to avoid getting a raw deal, read carefully, use common sense and treat people with common decency.
It's transformed itself into a large financial institution and marketing company, its revenue undoubtedly made from PayPal transaction float and fee revenue.
But eBay has quite possibly leveraged their power and dominance for as long as possible, and sellers and buyers alike are finally getting weary of it.
The facade of this great website to get great deals is cracking under its weight and people are figuring out eBay couldn't care less about WHAT or HOW people buy and sell, only that they DO buy and sell.
The buyer/seller relationship no longer exists. It used to be e-mails were exchanged, a check was mailed, endorsed, and the item got sent. It was a simple honors system (and still is, though the "risk thrill" has been lost). The feedback system was a good checks and balances system to ensure you avoided bad apples and you could trust people who had good references.
These days, like everyone else, I use PayPal to pay for items. The checkout is fast and convenient and sellers often ship me the purchase immediately. Which is nice. Cold and impersonal, but very convenient for both parties. Many sellers forget to leave me feedback (or don't care), and I tend to be correspondingly apathetic as well. Which really defeats the utility of feedback altogether.
In fact I can only imagine the current eBay management team thinks the feedback system has turned into something of the appendix in the body--it serves no useful revenue-generating function but is really starting to cost money and resources to deal with as dispute resolutions and problems grow.
eBay's focus is going to need to be restoring vitality and integrity back into their auction service. I think they sort of "capsized the boat" by charging too high fees for sellers, then sellers passing on those fees to buyers in the form of shipping. The whole community has really soured.
But I think their interest has finally tilted decidedly towards buyers because they are satisfied with what they probably believe they have established: a firm base of sellers. They want to tweak their revenue stream so that there are more buyers.
However, I could also see eBay extending an olive branch to sellers by lowering some listing fees to stimulate growth and improve relations with their source of listings, fees, and transactions.
I agree with another poster. The grassroots have moved on to Craigslist, which like Google was to Microsoft, a sleeper that may eventually make eBay irrelevant.
FWIW, ebay cares more about venue-revenue than how the seller-buyer react. There is a cold boilerplate reply from ebay (if any) when pursuin resolution. ebay now will hold payment for 21 days, until the buyer is satisfied (as a small seller, you know, I have some stuff in the attic or backroom closet that I no longer use, this is not acceptable).
The feedback system is apathetic. Buyers don't leave feedback unless they are not happy (which if you have ever worked in retail, you know there is a high percentage of buyers that will rip you off, that are never happy and want everything for free). Yes, there are sellers that rip you off too, and that can be frustrating (but Paypal protects you for small purchases).
Shipping rates have gone up (USPS, UPS...) and this is hurting sales.
There are software trolls (SIIA.net) that are lurking the backdoor system to prevent fraud of copied software (a good thing until you, an honest seller of say, an unused Adobe Acrobat for Mac, try to sell and get a VeRO ban!).
ebay hides behind "we are a venue" yet strong arms sellers and buyers.
eBay needs competition. Otherwise, it is anti-competitive (sitting on patents of age old buying process...how they get that one?), and monopolizes a market that has minimized...recession.
The positive comes from my own personal experience when I
bought a guitar and it arrived with the neck hanging off the
body. I contacted the seller to resolve the issue but didn't get a
response to my email. I was going to leave negative feedback
but realised that this seller left negative feedback in response to
previous negative comments where the buyer had been a
perfect paying customer. So I decided not to tarnish my perfect
record by getting a retaliatory negative comment.
I did get on to eBay about this, but they didn't ever get back to
me.
The other side is when sellers have genuine reason to complain
and leave negative feedback. There has to be some happy
compromise. Some buyers on eBay are psychos and they need
negative feedback left. However most buyers are not psychos
and the retaliatory negative feedback is vindictive and childish.
Some sellers just need to grow up!
I found out more about ebid at http://www.ukebid.com
eBid has been running for 10 years and operates sites for 14 countries so like eBay it's a trusted and well established auction site and not a "Here today gone tomorrow" auction site.
negative feedback against me. There is no magic system that
will work in the feedback game. One sided or two sided this will
still be a problem. They need feedback police. I gave up giving
true feedback most of the time for both selling and buying.
When selling I always waited for the buyer to leave feedback first
even if they took weeks to pay. As a buyer if there was a
problem with the item I would wait to see if the seller would
leave feedback first before leaving neutral or negative feedback
to protect myself from retaliation. This meant that most of the
time when there was a problem no feedback was left. Feedback
became a lose, lose situation.
- Meet half way
- by sparrownightmare February 6, 2008 4:54 AM PST
- I am not a big seller on Ebay but it seems to me that the common sense compromise to this situation is to allow sellers to post neutral or negative feedback, up to the time an item is paid for. I think that after an item is paid for, the buyer has fulfilled his or her portion of the transaction. Not allowing any negative or neutral feedback, even for non-payment, is going to seriously hurt the selling community.
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