Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD reviewed, and why Panasonic is rated higher

The Pioneer PDP-5020FD is an absolutely fantastic HDTV with outstanding black levels, but ultimately we preferred the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U.

For quite some time, the battle for CNET's "Best HDTV Overall" has essentially been between Pioneer's and Panasonic's plasmas. Plasma technology may be losing market share every year, but it's still the clear winner when it comes to image quality, thanks to deep, rich blacks that LCDs still can't match. And the conventional wisdom lately has basically been that Pioneer is the best bet for flat-panel videophiles, due to its industry-best black levels (excluding Sony's little OLED set.)

We posted our full review of the Pioneer Kuro PDP-5020FD on Friday, and home theater buffs are likely to be surprised that it's actually rated lower the Panasonic Viera TH-50PZ800U. We fully expected the resulting angry e-mails and hundred-post AVS Forum threads, so it's worth explaining the ratings, which we've put a lot of thought into. Our opinions are all in the review, but here's the short version:

Pioneer crippled the picture controls
If you're into home theater, you know that a properly adjusted display requires some tweaking in the user menu to get it to look its best. Unfortunately--and somewhat inexplicably--Pioneer dropped many of the picture controls that would allow savvy owners to get a better picture on the PDP-5020FD. You can't adjust the color temperature or the primary colors, which is a real issue because the primary colors of the PDP-5020FD aren't that close to the broadcast standard. More picture controls are available on the step-up Pioneer Elite Kuro PRO-111FD, but be prepared to spend about $5,000 for it.

The diminishing returns of blacker blacks
We love deep blacks on HDTVs. Nothing makes a picture pop more than rich blacks, and it's the the biggest component of what makes an image look good. That being said, the closer we get to "absolute black" and infinite contrast ratios, the less incremental increases in black level affect the overall picture quality--in our experience. When we compared the PDP-5020FD and the TH-50PZ800U side-by-side, there was no doubt the that Pioneer is the black-level king, but both sets are so good at getting dark that we felt that color accuracy wound up being a more important factor--and the Panasonic easily trumped Pioneer in this regard.

The new design negatively affects the viewing experience
This might seem like a major nitpick, but I noticed this as soon as I sat down to watch the PDP-5020FD. The frame surrounding the actual panel is very reflective, and the panel itself it inset a significant amount. The problem is that in a completely dark room, you can easily see the light from the screen reflecting off the inside of the bezel, which makes it look like a halo surrounding the screen--very annoying. This may not show up in every home theater, but it's definitely distracting, especially on an HDTV that's built for videophiles who care about details like that.

The PDP-5020FD is really expensive
This didn't necessarily go into the rating, but there's no denying that for the vast majority of buyers, the Pioneer PDP-5020FD just isn't worth the huge premium over the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U. The difference is about $1,500 at current market prices, and we really had a hard time finding reasons to justify the extra cost. Yes, the PDP-5020FD produces the darkest blacks of any plasma we've reviewed, but the Panasonic TH-50PZ800U has great blacks as well and its color is a whole lot more accurate.

That being said, let's not lose sight of the fact that the Pioneer PDP-5020FD is still an exceptional HDTV--we rated it 8.4 overall, which is pretty darn high on our scale.

What do you think? Do you think the Pioneer's superdark blacks make it the best set, or do you think the Panasonic's excellent performance for $1,500 less is a steal? Sound off in the comments.

[HHaller2]

I love Pioneer, and own a 5080...but I have to agree with the reviewer. Stripping picture controls from a high-end TV--especially one with this price tag--is a big no-no. Enthusiasts could go into the service menu, but that's of no help to the average joe.

At least the Kuro devotees can take solace in the fact that the Elite model, with it's picture tweaking abilities, should still be the undisputed king. Will CNet review that since they reviewed both the Panny Z800 and Z850???

[ControlCAL]

The Pioneer 9G Non-Elites (PDP-5020FD / PDP-6020FD) can be calibrated with ControlCAL.

ControlCAL allows you to access the RGB Highs/Lows and actually SAVE them for the AV Selection Movie.

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78

ISF Professionals who can calibrate the Pioneer 9G Non-Elites (PDP-5020FD/PDP-6020FD):

http://www.controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93

[jackte50]

Do you think that the Pioneer 5080 is a better buy than the Panny Z800 or Pioneer 5020?

[cnet2cnet]

First of all, you (David Katzmaier, Matthew Moskovciak, C-NET) should check your facts, before you make such outlandish statements.
Otherwise, you will lose any credibility you have left of being ?impartial? reviewers of plasma panels or anything else for that matter.

Here are passages from the reviewers own words about black levels?.?Still, when the PDP-5020FD's black frame appeared just a couple hairs lighter than the black screen itself, we found our eyes gravitating toward its picture IN PREFERENCE TO THE OTHERS.?

And again, about color accuracy? ?These issues certainly didn't spoil our enjoyment of the film, however, and the combination of deep blacks and accurate color decoding
ALLOWED THE PIONEER TO BEAT THE REST OF THE DISPLAYS AT PRODUCING RICH, SATURATED COLORS.?

In other words, you are plainly stating that not only do you prefer the black levels of the Pioneer but also it?s color rendition, as ?imperfect? (by a hair) as it may be.

YET, the major point that you keep coming back to, both in the C-NET review and the above summary, seems to be the ?fact? that the Pioneer 5020 is $1500 more expensive than the Panasonic PZ800U, and that this difference in price may not be worth the deeper black levels and the preferred PQ of the Pioneer.
Yet, if you checked the prices of the advertisers on YOUR OWN site, you would discover? surprise, surprise? that the price difference is only around $500.

Now, if you don?t like the retailers on your own website, you can also check the website named after the big river in South America (or any number of other retailers) and guess what you will discover? That?s right, the price difference is STILL only about $500.

BTW, don?t bother telling me that the $1500 is the MSRP price difference and that is why you are using it. The majority of people don?t pay the MSRP price, and it is totally misleading using this exaggerated difference as a factor in your comparison and ratings.

And now that we know for a FACT that the price difference is NOT $1500 but a mere $500, is the Pioneer worth the extra 5 bills? You bet your derriere it will be worth it to some and not to some others.
But you owe it to your readers to get your facts straight so that they can make an informed decision based on facts and not fiction.
I hope you will correct this falsehood in your review and adjust your ratings accordingly.

Cheers

[spur76]

I'm sorry, you guys sound like a bunch of us in a thread trying and begging to get credability for your opinion. Like a ref at a game, YOU BLEW THIS RATING and youre sticking by it. This article was even more pathetic than the original review. Stick to the facts. Even now you still say that Pioneer had the best black levels but then you take it away from them and give it to the Panasonic.....because...........oh what the hell............both Tvs were close, so because Panasonic has better color accuracy, we'll give it to the Panny. Dont you think that most people with a high end Plasma are going to have it professionally calibrated anyway? Then to end your article you hop on the money wagon again. Even though you say no, no, money was not a factor. Bottom line, like the 5080, when Pioneer first releases a new TV the prices are high. I remember that the 5080 dropped almost $1000.00 in the first year at Best Buy (Thanksgiving and Christmas big sales). I'm just really disapointed at CNET and question your motivation behind this review. One last point, picking on a thin bezel on the inside of the frame in a dark room........you've got to be out of your mind. If your eyes can see that, then look out Batman and Spiderman. I own the TV and I cannot pick that bezel up even when I try. Heres a challenge to you. Calibrate both TVs then review it and then tell who wins. I'm pretty sure you wont........but I dare you to do one of your head to head challenges "Pioneer vrs Panasonic" but both are professionally calibrated. THERE IT IS CNET>>>TOO SCARED?

[clifrdj]

I'm a huge Pioneer fan, but I have to say, all of your comments on this review are compelling, and I need to ask: are you all truly that upset, or are you trying to justify your purchase? Or maybe you're a Pioneer dealer worried about losing sales. Either way, I've seen both TVs side by side and the Panasonic (to my eyes) truly had the better quality picture. And that's what matters most...what each of OUR eyes deems the best.

I never would have considered buying a Panasonic over a Pioneer...until now. And remember, don't trash Panasonic too much because Pioneer panels will all be made by Panasonic next year, so obviously Pioneer feels they have credibility as well.

[mwoodworth]

I agree with the previous comments and to be fair to Pioneer, either the 111 or 151 should be reviewed since both high end Panasonics have been reviewed. I am sure Pioneer would be happy to send CNet a review sample. This review sounds like the price was heavily factored in. Price shouldn't be an issue at all. I own a PRO-151FD and paid $1500 below MSRP from a B&M company. The Pioneers (Elite and Non-Elite) can be had at BB or Tweeter for well below MSRP and they are even cheaper online. Besides the MSRP on the 2008 Pioneers is $1000 less than the 2007's. Price didnt effect your review last year. In fact, The 5080 at the time or your review was the same price as the 5020. And the bezel thing is complete garbage. I have never been distracted by the bezel. I would be more distracted by the double image that panasonics have as well as the more reflective screen. I know CNet stoped SM calibrations, but the end user can still have their xx20 calibrated and the results will far and away surpass the panasonics.

[dbs2449]

i am following this debate as someone who wants to buy a plasma now .....what is the better deal a pioneer 6020 or a pioneer 6010 for $1500 less......i need some informed opinions

[primopup]

I have the TV and i can tell you after the 150 hour burn in the colors are amazing..
I made my purchase at New Egg, and with the purchase i received a free Pioneer BDP51-D all for a sweet 2,600.00, so with the DVD player it takes the TV down to about 2100.00, you tell me were you can find a better TV at that price?
I viewed all these TV's side by side at Natural Sound, out here in MA. This TV was night and day a step above the rest...
And not only to my eyes, but to others, even the Samsung PN50A650 looked better than the Panasonic PZ800U..
I am starting to trust PC-Mag over you guys now, were the Quote "in terms of HD image quality and integrated features, there isn't a better HDTV currently available."

[tmeyers2006]

I don't own either TV, but I have seen them side-by-side on may occaisions and with different inputs, and I have to say that the Pioneer just blows the Panasonic away. I cannot imagine what the reviewers were thinking. The Panasonic was nice, but it didn't even come close to the Pioneer.

[bigmamou]

OK, I've read through everything here about the Pioneer Kuro vs the Panasonic 800U. I have done 2 months of reading and viewing research in determining which 50" plasma I want (I determined early on that the LCD's just don't measure up at this size) and I have to say............the Kuro has it all over the Panasonic in every way. I've compared the 2 side by side in many stores and one on one in homes and factoring in the street price difference of $500 or so there really is no comparison. I will be buying a 50" Kuro, the eyes don't lie! I should add I had no bias either way going into this (price was no object at this level) and I was kind of surprised at how much better the Pioneer set really was. The Panasonic is a nice set (the only real problem I have with it is NO headphone output) but the Kuro does look $500 better given that I'm going to be watching this TV for a looong time.

[unhappyowner]

I find the Pioneer brand unreliable (to say the least) and the customer support rude and uncooperative. I purchased a PDP 5070HD (the KURO predecessor) in early 2007. Last December, the video display stopped working, leaving only audio. Pioneer referred me to a licensed repair outlet who quoted me a $900 plus repair bill -- this on a set less than 1 1/2 years old!! In speaking with customer service to try to get the part at least reduced in price ($586) as a courtesy, I was blown off with gibberish that the TV was too far out of warranty -- six months -- to help at all. I find it ridiculous to spend $3,000 for a TV that lasts 1 1/2 years and then get sarcasm from the manufacturer's customer service when I express my disappointment in the product. Don't buy this brand if you expect decent treatment.

[the computer genius]

hmm. This is funny. A few monthes ago I returned 3 sonys xbr4's because of motion blur atritifacts. No one can more detailed oriented than me.

I had a Panasonic 1080P brought and in my hand. Someone told me look at the pioneer PHP 4280 which was a 720P, MY eyes poped. While still waiting for my ride and the set on the floor I told the sales person I want the Pioneer (with the reduced resolution) and I went with the pionner.

I questioned myself over and over again and went back to best buy to watch the pics side by side and in no way and I sorry about my pioneer.

My opinion on the whole thing If you want to get technical the author is right But I would still never buy a panasonic over a pionner because to me the outcome is much more pronouced in the pioneer.

[popriver]

I just purchase a pioneer 5020, I like the panny 50-800u ,all the complaints of pan's flicker help me make up my mind. $1811.+ 7% tax for the kuro

[raggmopp11]

popriver! Can you share the name of the place where you purchased your pioneer 5020? Thanks!!!