The 30-year-old iPod?

Does anybody buying an iPod in 2008 expect to get more than a few years of use out of the thing? My five year old iPod still plays, but I can't get it to work in newer iPod docks or iPod speakers. My iPod is too old.

Linn's turntable has been around since 1972.

(Credit: Linn Products)

A good friend of mine plays his 30-year-old Linn LP-12 turntable almost every day. It was an expensive turntable in 1978 when it sold for around $1,200. But he's gotten 30 years of use out of the thing, and even now listens to a lot more vinyl than CD. So his $1,200 investment works out to around $40 a year to own the thing. Can you imagine anybody buying an iPod today still using it in 2038? 2028? OK, how about 2018? Hmm, I don't think so.

Linn still makes the LP-12 turntable, the model has been in continuous production since 1972, and most parts are readily available. How's that for customer service? My Linn LP-12 is almost brand new, it's just 13 years old.

OK, iPods aren't high-end devices, they're disposable technology. Fair enough, how much do you imagine you'll spend on iPods or their equivalents over the next 30 years? There was one guy who responded to my "How many iPods have you owned?" poll who has already bought 26. So he's already made Steve Jobs richer by many thousands of dollars. Over the next three decades he'll spend a lot more, and still wind up with a closet full of useless junk.

I get it. Convenience trumps quality in most things. Fast food vs. slow food; fresh ingredients vs processed, which is pretty much the same deal with music. CDs, once the height of convenience and advanced tech are now viewed as archaic. CDs are too big, too easily damaged, and cost too much--so lower-fi MP3s and iTunes have put the CD on the road to oblivion. But to vinyl loving audiophiles LPs still sound better than any digital format. Everyone else couldn't care less about the sound quality their music, it's just not all that important to them.

Or is it that people are so busy now they simply don't have time for quality. Strange, our affluence makes us go for the quickest, lower quality option every time. Back in the day writers would use the same typewriter for decades, but now we have to toss out our computers every three or four years. We're living in a disposable culture, so we need to keep buying new, ever cheaper stuff, but if you have to keep rebuying it, is it really cheaper? High-end audio can be expensive to buy, but not to own.

I'd like to hear from you guys about your turntables, have long have you had yours? Is yours even older than my friend's 30 year old Linn?

[bleech]

ELAC
35+
Don´t know the name.
Forgotten in the attic because no needles avaliable.

[bilbro6696]

I have had my turntable for six months, I know a very short time but im only twenty and I love it. I honestly think it is a preference thing, if you have the time vinyl is the way to go but I cant take my albums to work and plug it my turntable into my computer speakers, it is a trade-off.

[pubmat]

C'mon will you please??? Get off this vinyl thing....cd's are better! I can take a 100 dollar cd player with a well recorded cd and it will sound significantly better than a 1000.00 turntable. And forget about sacd.... This blog is just veiled attempt to bash digital recordings.

[scioara]

Maybe. Maybe so. But that's if - a big IF at that - you can find a "well recorded CD". Overwhelming majority, by far, are just ... cowplop.
And no, I am not one of those analog snobs, I do have way more CDs than LPs. I just happen to be able to tell the difference.

[froasier]

ok scioara, record an LP to a CD (with quality gear of course) and then see if you can tell the difference

[buzzvader]

I still have my Dual 1218 purchased from Warehouse Sound in San Luis, Obispo Ca in 1973. I just replaced the stylus on the Audio-Technica AT-!4Sa cartridge and the turntable needs to be lubed but everything still works. I also have a Dual 1009 and Sony 1100 which I presently use. This also goes along with a Harman-Kardon 900+ quad receiver, Marantz 2215B receiver,JVC 4VR-5414 receiver with built in equalizer and a set of original walnut large Advent speakers, along with a set of Altec Lansing 887A speakers. All of these are presently working and I still listen to them along with playing my albums which are about the same age.

[rayray8822]

The Real Deal (Tom and Rafe) just did a thing about how long flash drives can last . . . LESS THAN A DECADE. Since most iPods tend to be heading toward flash memory and away from hard drives, it looks like you may not be able to get your iPod nano to function after a few years of use even if you wanted it to. Disposable technology, indeed.

[Digitalvinyl]

I've owned a Micro-Seiki MB-14 turntable for 26 years. I bought it new for $200 and other than having to replace the belt, it's been flawless and with a good quality LP, the sound blows CD's away.

[pubmat]

You wish! Cd's are superior....the average lp loses 2-3db every time its played. Maybe old technology orginal issue cd's were crappy...but forget about the new ones. You have no idea what you're talking about.

[WhyFi]

@pubmat
I guess that you don't realize that, by your math, an LP would be unlistenable after a handful of plays? Who doesn't know what they're talking about?

[alan_always]

hey steve, look at the facts - ripping technology has advanced considerably over the last 8 or 9 years, so mp3s and AACs are sounding better than before while their CD counterparts are sounding worse. most new CDs (my guess is 98% or more) are so over-compressed that an mp3 or AAC generally sounds just as good as the crappy sounding CD it is ripped from.... you can't really argue with that point!

and vinyl is vinyl - and for that, i recommend this:
http://www.tnt-audio.com/accessories/knosti_e.html
holy cow, this rocks my world! it's expensive considering that it probably costs the company less than $1 to manufacture it but it works, my god... does it work!

and yes, i think we all agree that disposable technology sucks - which ocean will be the lucky one to have millions of dead ipods dumped into it? the one reason i never bought an ipod - too expensive for another piece of portable technology that i will break just as easily as every portable cd player or digital camera i've owned.

btw - did you see the video review in this ny times article a few days ago?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/technology/personaltech/10pogue.html?ex=1223697600&en=8d93782364a9891b&ei=5087&WT.mc_id=TE-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M040-EM-0408-HDR&WT.mc_ev=click&mkt=TE-D-I-NYT-MOD-MOD-M040-EM-0408-HDR

and my turntable - pioneer PL-71 with a recent small buzz that must be fixed but i'm generally loving it. it's been in the family since the 70's and will be around for a long time to come.

[micahdogger]

My grandmother turns 98 this summer. She owns and uses a sewing machine, a vacuum cleaner, and an electric mixer all built during the first half of the 20th century--before I was even born. I am sure that doesn't sit well with Wall St. driven consumer goods manufacturers who seek to achieve target sales numbers by building and selling junk. American consumers are frenzied to a froth by marketing companies and credit lenders who have succeeded in fooling many into jumping on the "curb appeal" tread mill, only to find that they miss most of what counts in life. My collection of about 2000 LP's and my 20 year old VPI turntable represent the music and style of an era--created by passionate artists who actually sang their parts without pitch-correcting computer software. I'm all for technology when it comes to life saving medicines or side impact air bags, but the entire world of digital music belongs in a sealed space capsule with every episode of American Idol...LAUNCH!!!

[texex99]

Steve,

You present a false choice between high-end, vinyl-based systems and cheapo digital. There's a wide range of choices between those two extremes and the buying decision for many people is more complex than you allow.

First, I think you're focused on the same demographic as the music marketers - teens and twenty somethings. This group certainly is guilty of the cheapo digital route and want music at the lowest possible price or free. Who cares if stolen music sounds bad - it was free to me!

Second, what good is a $5K sound system to the guy (me) who travels for work almost every week? The iPod is great because the convenience unlocks the music (i.e. the thing I get utility from). Sound systems, iPods, headphones and media are all tools to deliver the music. The quality of the tool does affect the utility derived from the music, but it is still just a tool.

Finally, people will get different levels of enjoyment out of increasing levels of quality. While I can't stand the pack-in iPod headphones and 128K MP3s sound tinny, I also can't hear the enough of a difference between a solid HK receiver and a Macintosh that cost many times more to justify the extra price. I buy audio technology up to the point that the marginal differences are no longer worth the marginal dollars. So an iPod carrying music at 256K and supporting Shure headphones is a great portable system but I could easily pay twice as much for headphones and another few hundred dollars on a headphone amp - not worth it to me. My home audio system costs ~$1,000 and it sounds great (even though I do wish I had spent a bit more for larger speakers).

Just because people don't have a turntable and actually use lossy codecs doesn't mean they don't care about quality.

[make_or_break]

Valid points, but certainly MOST DAP people don't care, simply because they don't know any better. Even with your own viewpoint, it's clear that when one gets to the nuts of it, you too don't care either ("not worth it to me"). Of course, this has been the way it's always been, whether it was iPods or Sony Walkman tape players. At some point there's that law of diminishing returns rearing its logical head.

[hfjacinto]

I was thinking about this and other than the Technics turntable I have replaced all of my components and now I am on a second (Av Receiver), third (DVD) or in cases of TV 4th replacement. The turntable has lasted over 20 years and it cost me around $200 20 years ago. I still have my dual cassette deck which is as old as the turntable, but I haven't used it in over 2 years and was thinking of selling it on Craig's List.

[bob.mcclenahan]

I just replaced my 30-year-old Dual turntable with a new Rega P3. I'm on my fifth iPod. And the records still sound better played back on vinyl.

[cromeyeller]

Thorens TD320 bought 23 years ago. It has a Grado Signature 8 cartridge. I replaced the original tonearm (that had a joint in the middle of the tube to allow interchanging cartridges) with a subsequent, and better, Thorens model.

[aaldag]

I've had a Music Hall MMF-9 for about 2 years, with a Lyra Dorian cartridge feeding into an all Linn system. I've only had vinyl for about 2 years but absolutely love it. I have a few iPods with CD's ripped at lossless through either Shure or Grado headphones. When at home, vinyl represents 80% of my listening. On the road, in the car or in the office it's only the iPod. I'm sure I will need a new iPod in a year or so. I can't imagine when I would "need" another turntable, but I'm sure I could find an excuse to upgrade.

[Serhauss]

On the latest 35 years, I bought and I used all kind of media and audio players: open reel tapes, cassete tapes, vinyl records, minidiscs and mp3 players (iPods). When I started my hobby in Audio (on the early 70's) the focus was to buy high quality audio equipments in order to get high quality sound reproduction. I still have my Technics SL-1800 turntable working since mid 70's. On the other hand, I have a iPod Nano which I use (rarely) with a Senheiser mini-phones. But I'm convinced that this is low fi music, highly compressed. I still prefer to listen my LPs!

[ematcion]

So components are meant to stand the test of time.....just not an iPod.

[butt1]

This dear-to-the-heart subject certainly beats worrying about the IRS...............and packs far more interest!! I've been a long-time audiophile, which includes the forgotten time period of audio kits (remember Heathkit, Dynaco, Eico, Scott, Allied Electronics, etc.)! And now the timely subject of CD vs. vinyl sound hits home with me as well. I don't mind CD digital sound, listening to MP3's but still have a sweet-spot for the vinyl sound. Equipment-wise, I have a Dual 1019 from about 1966 (so that's 42-years old), with the original Stanton 681-EE catridge - fabulous sound reproduction!!! Also have a 60's vintage Miracord turntable (not sure of model #) with a Shure cartridge - and 100% functional. LP's number between 500-800, and even include a large number of vintage 78's. LP-to-CD transfers have been minimal. Over the years, my audio systems included "solid-state" Dynaco (kits!!) preamp, tuner and 200w power amp. Prior to that, had a tube Dynaco (also kit) system. Later on added a 120w Kenwood tuner and integrated amp system, when the Dynaco power amp finally died. Most recent addition is a Denon 7.1 surround-sound system. The current system includes 40-yo KLH bookshelve speakers, Dynaco Aperiodic speakers and Leonhardt column speakers, again all from the 60's!! This complement functions beautifully, and only supports the fact of HIGH quality craftmanship from years past. Yes, we live in a truly unfortunate disposable era, plus we definitely lost the creative-mind set of audio/electronic kits! In this day-and-age everything comes from China..............need I say more!!!

[johnnysocko]

1979 Scott hand-me-down from my father still working like a champ. New stylus, but listening to some fresh wax on it just blows me away. Invest in good audio, and you won't be spending continually. By the way, my favorite CD player is an original Playstation, if you never tried it just for tunes, check it out. It's got some nasty processor, but get a 1001 model.

[pubmat]

People, give it up. Every major audio publication agrees that cd's are better. Lp's lose 2-3 db every time you play them, get dirty easily, the needle wears out.....on and on. Any cheap cd player with well recorded cd will blow away an lp on an expensive turntable hands down. And what about sacd, or a high end cd player? No contest.

[gort69]

Sorry pub. On a record there is almost 8 times the information compared to cd. The only way music was meant to be broken up is into 1/4, 1/8, 1/16, and 1/32 notes. And, much like Humpty Dumpty, you can never put it back together...properly. With SACD, there is very little true DSD. With DVD-A you need a monitor.
A dirty record will still play 30-40 years from now. A cd will not. Even a 90 year old record is still playable. And if your record is losing volume every time you play it, there are more significant problems with your system than just the diofference between digital and analog.

[rs125racer]

Pubmat...what a shame!!!! Publication? Please...do you "read" about what car you should buy or what restaurant will be your favorite? In a word NO! If you compare a $100 turntable to a $100 CD player IN THE 80"s then, yes, the quality was probably better. I DO have an Linn LP12 that I've owned since 1990 and have owned one of the best CD players money could buy, a Nakamichi Dragon and Dragon DAC. Operative word here is "owned". I sold it to a guy 2 years ago because I didn't listen to it..ever. I use my LP12 every night I'm home. Do YOU listen to music that much? Likely not... Do you go and listen to music live? Again, likely not! That is the standard dude. The musical experience comes from how close your hi-fi (not crappy "stereo") can get you to live. You probably trade cars every couple of years and are on your 3 or 4th iPod. I have an iPod too...that I use when I go running. As for day in and out use, my turntable is my choice without question. Funny, when I have friends over the first thing they want to do is start spinning records and open a great bottle of wine. Living is, as Robin Williams said in Dead Poets Society, about "sucking the marrow out of life" and that comes through your passion about life. I read Wine Spectator but don't fill my pantry with their top picks. You are likely and engineer who overthinks everything instead of slowing down and tasting, driving, and listening to what the best of the world has to offer. Say what you will but there are a LOT of people who would debate you on the subject and they are likely a hell of a lot more passionate and educated than you. I pitty your ignorance.

[osynnek]

I've had my Ariston RD-80 for 30 years now. I still use it more than any other audio source. I also have a pretty decent CD player. Those that have an LP and CD version of same recordings and did side by side comparisons will understand why the LP has stood the test of time over any digital format.

Recently a friend paid me by giving me his old Thorens TD160 turntable which I've hooked up to an ADC and piped the signal into my MAC for doing LP to digital conversions.

I also have an iPOD for playing music while travelling.

[gort69]

I have 3 tables. From a Thorens TD-124 to a TD147 to an Oracle Delphi 4. What I really like about the POD people is that they are listening to more music than any other group of people before them. The task that confronts the high end is simply to prove to them that we can make it sound better...and to make them care that it does.
Ivan Halbach