Why don't video recorders have HDMI inputs?--Ask the Editors
DVD recorders have HDMI out, but not HDMI in. Why the disparity?
(Credit: Crutchfield)CNET reader "deesmac" asks:
Why doesn't a DVD recorder have an HDMI in, as well as an HDMI out?
It's a great question. High-Definition Multimedia Interface provides the advantage of passing a high-bandwidth all-digital high-definition video and audio signal on a single cable, as opposed to the tangle of component video plus audio cables that were required for HD. (If those terms are Greek to you, check out the connectivity section of the CNET TV Buying Guide.) HDMI is now the standard connector for HDTVs and all of the HD-capable components that connect to them--DVD players and recorders, DVRs, game consoles, Blu-ray and HD DVD players, and even camcorders and PCs. But all of those are video sources that only have HDMI outputs. You'll find HDMI inputs only on AV receivers, HDMI switchers, and--of course--TVs. So, why the disparity?
Not surprisingly, the dearth of HDMI inputs on recording devices is by design. The HDMI specification includes a copy-protection scheme known as High-Definition Copy Protection. So to use HDMI (and get the snazzy HDMI certification logo on your device), manufacturers need to ensure that their products are HDCP-compliant. That pretty much means that HDMI inputs are limited to display devices (TVs) and repeaters (AV receivers and switchers). Those repeaters are so-called "passthrough" devices--they can do little more than pass the HD video signal onto the next device (invariably, the TV). But, by definition, that HDCP-encoded video signal is designed to be unrecordable. That's why there are no recorders with an HDMI input. (You won't find HDMI inputs on Slingbox products for the same reason.)
So what's the alternative? Recorders with component video inputs are few and far between: Philips had component-in on its otherwise lackluster DVD recorders in years past, as did Sony on at least one model--but both companies have since dropped the feature. The upcoming Hauppauge video encoder supposedly can accept and process 1080p video via its component inputs. Likewise, several Slingbox models (as well as competing placeshifting products from Sony, Monsoon/HAVA, and Pinnacle) can accept component video--including HD streams--and pass it through to a TV or AV receiver. However, for recording you're pretty much stuck either with "closed box" HD DVRs or utilizing the so-called analog hole: the composite or S-Video output from your DVR, cable, or satellite box will still output an analog video signal--not in high-definition, of course--that's easily recordable. Which is why they're the only two inputs you'll find on your DVD recorder. (Speaking of which: make sure you use S-Video in--the quality is noticeably better than composite.)
The irony here, as usual, is that honest users who just want more convenience, better quality, and fewer wires are the losers--even as digital piracy remains as rampant as ever (thanks to PC-based recording, not set-top recorders). Still, don't expect Hollywood studios or electronics manufacturers to change their tune on this one. For the same reason, I wouldn't hold my breath for a set-top Blu-ray recorder in North America anytime soon (despite the fact that they've long been available in Japan).
That's the [relatively] quick answer. But if I'm wrong, it certainly wouldn't be the first time. If anybody knows of a recorder with an HDMI input (or even a component input), let us known of your discovery by commenting below.
Note: This post has been updated to include a reference to older Philips and Sony DVD recorders that offered component video inputs (thanks, Wes#1 and Matt).
John P. Falcone covers home theater and network entertainment products. He's been writing for CNET since 2002.
It's not a terrible solution, but as far as convenience it has a bit to be desired.
It's not a terrible solution, but as far as convenience it has a bit to be desired.
That said, the DVDR985 recorder was a finicky pile of junk, like other Philips DVD equipment I've encountered. It stopped working after about 6 months and I could never get decent support from Philips (they employ clueless thick-accented phone operators off-shore reading scripts) for this DVD recorder, as well as Philips DVD player I bought. The DVDR985 is now a worthless doorstop. I'll never have another Philips-anything in my house and would not endorse buying a Philips machine just to get component input.
But I digress... I believe Philips has had component inputs on several of their recorders; other brands may (hopefully) also, but I'm sure there are restrictions such as 480i-only. Component-in is going to provide a cleaner recorded signal than S-video, and would be preferred if your camcorder (or PC) provides an output for recording this way to a DVD recorder.
That said, the DVDR985 recorder was a finicky pile of junk, like other Philips DVD equipment I've encountered. It stopped working after about 6 months and I could never get decent support from Philips (they employ clueless thick-accented phone operators off-shore reading scripts) for this DVD recorder, as well as Philips DVD player I bought. The DVDR985 is now a worthless doorstop. I'll never have another Philips-anything in my house and would not endorse buying a Philips machine just to get component input.
But I digress... I believe Philips has had component inputs on several of their recorders; other brands may (hopefully) also, but I'm sure there are restrictions such as 480i-only. Component-in is going to provide a cleaner recorded signal than S-video, and would be preferred if your camcorder (or PC) provides an output for recording this way to a DVD recorder.
I see your point about why they don't (HDCP and all), but why do they need it?
I see your point about why they don't (HDCP and all), but why do they need it?
This brings up 3 questions:
1. Am I correct (as I assume) that this recording method would be impossible on a DVR recorder? and
2. When we move to all High-Def Broadcast, how is one to record the HD broadcast? and then
3. While recording in HD, how will one be able to edit out the commercials "on the fly" (so to speak) while maintaining all the HD qualities of the broadcast?
Does anybody out there make a DVR that can do this? Or, will I continue to be stuck in the dark ages with my VCRs and analog signals from the dreaded cable company?
1. True DVRs would simply pause the live stream, so yes--it would be impossible to ride the pause button to edit out commercials on a DVR.
2. HD broadcasts can be recorded on DVD recorders with built-in ATSC tuners, although the recording will not be in high-def. To record in HD, you'll either need a DVR (no commercial editing) or a more niche solution, such as a Windows Media Center PC or something such as the Gefen HDMI Recorder:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-03/gefen-dvr-records-via-hdmi/
3. While recording in HD, it'll be extremely tough to edit out the commercials on the fly. You'll need one of the specialty options listed above.
If any readers have any better suggestions or options, please respond below.
This brings up 3 questions:
1. Am I correct (as I assume) that this recording method would be impossible on a DVR recorder? and
2. When we move to all High-Def Broadcast, how is one to record the HD broadcast? and then
3. While recording in HD, how will one be able to edit out the commercials "on the fly" (so to speak) while maintaining all the HD qualities of the broadcast?
Does anybody out there make a DVR that can do this? Or, will I continue to be stuck in the dark ages with my VCRs and analog signals from the dreaded cable company?
1. True DVRs would simply pause the live stream, so yes--it would be impossible to ride the pause button to edit out commercials on a DVR.
2. HD broadcasts can be recorded on DVD recorders with built-in ATSC tuners, although the recording will not be in high-def. To record in HD, you'll either need a DVR (no commercial editing) or a more niche solution, such as a Windows Media Center PC or something such as the Gefen HDMI Recorder:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2008-03/gefen-dvr-records-via-hdmi/
3. While recording in HD, it'll be extremely tough to edit out the commercials on the fly. You'll need one of the specialty options listed above.
If any readers have any better suggestions or options, please respond below.
2. So you're recording to standard VHS and THEN to DVD? I wouldn't recommend that, because you're just lowering the quality of your video by doing that. Your video has a VHS-quality bottleneck if you do that. If you would record to your DVDs directly from your TV source (as with a standalone DVD recorder), then you'll maintain DVD-quality picture, and you can in fact pause the standalone DVD recorder just like a VCR. Not only that, but some allow you to just record straight through and then do split-edits to remove the commercial blocks between show parts (especially those DVD recorders with hard disks).
3. As for recording HD to removable media, read the above comments for the current disappointing answers.
But perhaps there is a workaround.
I have found a device called a
"HDMI/DVI Scaler". A box which costs about $230 which converts HDMI to DVI and vice versa.
http://www.hdstep.com/Atlona-HDMI-DVI-Scaler-with-Analog-Digital-Audio-p-17507.html
Now, could I use the output from my Canal+ decoder in HDMI, pipe it into this converter, and get DVI output to put into a high quality HDMI capable recorder? Is this a useful avenue to be pursuing ?
Second question: I would like to network the recorder so that I can grab stuff I have recorded and store the files on a server on my local network. It seems very rare to have an ethernet connection on the recorders, although in my initial research I have found one that has one, the Pioneer DVR-LX61D. (Unfortunately it does not seem to have DVI input ... ) In any case, is this a usual use of the Ethernet connection on these devices, should I find an acceptable one? Is the disk readable (or writeable for that matter) from the network ?
Many thanks for your help.
Jon Cooper
Etretat
France
-
by sg71music
February 1, 2009 5:48 PM PST
- HELP! I do not have an HDMI tv. But I do have a digital box so I can receive digital tv.
-
Reply to this comment
-
(19 Comments)I use my video recorder with progressive scan to dub from VHS to DVD and record from tv to DVD.
Can I use a new JVC DRMV79B video recorder that has HDMI ?
Please reply. Many thanks