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October 21, 2009 8:59 AM PDT

Does losing FireWire on a MacBook bother you?

by Scott Stein
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Do you still use one of these?

(Credit: cablek.com)

Apple's announcement Tuesday of a thinner and lighter $999 MacBook, one with unibody construction and a glass trackpad, was bittersweet. It should be, for any longtime user of Macs, or digital video equipment, or older hard drives. In updating the MacBook to a much more similar look and feel to its recent MacBook Pro line, Apple used the opportunity to quietly dump one of the most distinctive and useful ports over the last 10 years: FireWire. While just a year ago the alumni 13-inch MacBooks found themselves without FireWire while the white MacBooks still had it, now the tables have turned: all aluminum MacBook Pros now have FireWire 800 ports, while the lowest-end MacBook has had its FireWire stripped out, a casualty of thinner size, engineering, or profit margins.

FireWire, or IEEE 1394, was a format jointly pushed by companies including Apple and Sony, a high-speed standard to transfer data that was a far better alternative to USB 1.0. DV cameras, hard drives, and even the original iPod all used FireWire. Having FireWire was the most important consideration when buying a new Mac. Back in 2003, FireWire was the standard across consumer electronics, especially with the rise of digital video cameras that could upload their footage to PCs for nonlinear editing.

Oh, how times have changed. USB 2.0 is pretty much the universal standard for all data transfer, and it's hard to find any peripheral that doesn't use it--modern peripherals, that is. But that's the conundrum: if you're buying the most budget-friendly Mac laptop out there, there's a good chance you own some equipment that's not quite as up-to-date, or you're simply not willing to give up yet. Losing FireWire means losing access to those peripherals.

When we reviewed Apple's lowest-priced MacBook this past summer, we actually found two of its "legacy" features--a removable battery and FireWire--to be much-appreciated options for those who still liked to carry an extra charged battery around, or for those who still owned and used FireWire equipment. Many videographers still rely on FireWire, as do IT employees. We noticed quite a few commenters from Tuesday's post who were upset about the loss of FireWire, and we sympathize. Apple started this bandwagon, and it always frustrates us when ports are adopted and later abandoned. It's not an Apple issue, it's a legacy CE issue. We were similarly upset about how the PSP Go isn't compatible with the old PSP's cables and equipment.

While introducing a great new MacBook with better battery life, a stronger chassis, and a higher-quality screen, Apple stealth-removed the FireWire port and replaced it with...nothing. USB ports are all that remain. As a MacBook and Apple user, I don't have many FireWire devices anymore, but last year I did have to abandon a FireWire hard drive that wasn't compatible with my 2008 aluminum MacBook. I thought these problems were solved as of this summer, but it's a shame to see that we're back there again.

Or maybe you're fine without FireWire? Does this bother you at all, or would you simply spend the extra $200 for a MacBook Pro? Do you budget-conscious Apple owners feel short-changed, or do you like the new additions to the white MacBook? Was losing FireWire worth it?

Scott Stein, a New York Jets fan and CNET senior associate editor, has written about tech, entertainment, video games, and viral culture for outlets including Laptop, Wired, Maxim, Esquire Online, Asylum, and Men's Journal. He also appears on the Digital City podcast. In his spare time, you might see him performing improv in New York City (when he's not being a dad).
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (81 Comments)
by cdlenfert82 October 21, 2009 9:16 AM PDT
Definitely a bummer on my end. I recently bought a iomega 500 gig laptop size portable hard drive. It has USB and Firewire support so I should be fine either way right? But to self power the drive and not have to plug into a wall I can use 1 firewire connection, or 2 usb connections. And if I used two usb connections then I'm completely out of ports. Another thing that I've noticed and maybe I'm behind on this one, is the loss of an audio line-in port. Less is Less , but at least it costs just as much!
Reply to this comment
by jaguar717 October 21, 2009 12:50 PM PDT
But having peripherals support both is a giant waste of economies of scale. USB 3.0 is coming out anyway, so why should they keep throwing resources away to cram more redundant hardware into a device that's already crowded and expected to shrink?

Firewire is HD-DVD. Let it die and let us move toward a single commoditized connector that can give us next to no latency for tiny files, and 5GB/s transfers for huge terabyte drives.
by windooor7 October 21, 2009 7:00 PM PDT
APPle hates ugly things(fire wires ,e-sata), and they are forcing their user to quickly adopt AIRport. wireless as away to transfer and connect.
by blusky08 October 21, 2009 9:54 PM PDT
Well, as the article states this is the "lowest-end" Macbook. Generally when moving down in models features disappear. That's the way it is. Macbooks do what they do very well. If you want an ultra-slim notebook that tries to do everything then get an MS based system.
by streamline35 October 21, 2009 11:54 PM PDT
blusky, the thing people complaining about is not that it doesn't have macbook pro features - it is that it doesn't have features that were originally included on macbooks. They specs are going up, but the features are going down from the last generation of macbooks (non pros).
by MeepMan October 22, 2009 4:23 PM PDT
Jaguar717, please figure out data transfer rates. USB 3.0 does NOT have 5GB/s transfer speed. It only has 5Gb/s transfer speed, including the necessary amount for overhead. Taking out overhead, you end up with 3Gb/s, which is 0.4GB/s. That is not very fast, considering the potential of the wire type and the port type and their maximum potential. IEEE1394 is upgrading to the D specification, and all it is a firmware update. That brings Firewire up to 3Gb/s with just a firmware update! No new equipment. Sounds like a much better deal to me, plus the fact that IEEE1394 as a specification does not require near as much CPU processing, since it can use the chips built into the card.
by JazGalaxy October 21, 2009 9:20 AM PDT
The life of technology in the modern era is two years or less. Why would anyone bemoan the loss of firewire? What device would you be trying to use that you couldn't, and probably should have already, upgraded for dirt cheap?
Reply to this comment
by MadLyb October 21, 2009 9:38 AM PDT
Glad you are rich. Some of us don't have a disposable mentality about our investments.

Also, consider that one port may used for many different peripherals that would have to be replaced. So, even if cheap, they add up.

I am fine with retiring Firewire if there is a comparable and inexpensive replacement, but USB 2.0 is a little weak, USB 3.0 isn't available, and eSata only addresses hard drives.
by zakb7 October 21, 2009 9:49 AM PDT
People who shoot video or a lot of stills need the fastest download speeds possible. And then again when backing up to external drives. USB 2.0 is fast, but not nearly as fast as Firewire.

The average user may not need it. But working pros and semipros, or serious enthusiasts for that matter, find it essential.
by george_liquor October 21, 2009 12:16 PM PDT
Well, now's a perfect time to get a good deal on the outgoing MacBook. It has a firewire port.
by rnaoncfixd October 21, 2009 12:23 PM PDT
@ zakb7

Hence, the Macbook Pros that have the firewire ports.
by Renegade Knight October 21, 2009 12:48 PM PDT
Because I'm tired of replacing things every two years. I've got other things on my list than "replacing perfcectly good tech with yet more tech that does the same thing".
by JazGalaxy October 22, 2009 9:47 AM PDT
I'm a graphic designer and semi-pro photographer and I really can't think of an instance where I sat there thinking "man I wish I had a firewire port over this usb port".

I'm not in any way rich, but as a working professional, having old technology is more of a liability than it is any sort of asset or cost savings.
by MickBurke October 21, 2009 9:21 AM PDT
No do whatever you want just please protect us from that awful 'bag of hurt' that is Blu-Ray!!! Thank you for saving us steve jobs, amen.
Reply to this comment
by tappy727 October 21, 2009 12:28 PM PDT
Yeah, so the only bag of hurt will be low quality HD movies from iTunes that only play on computer or Apple device. And oh, those Apple devices don't really play well with other downloaded movies. Ow.
by chriscooksey October 21, 2009 9:31 AM PDT
Although as a professional photographer i bemoan the loss of firewire as I still use it to empty memory cards faster than any other consumer peripheral, I can help but feel like the majority of the new Macbook's target audience will not share my sympathy, or even notice for that matter. My backup drives and card readers are the only devices that grace my firewire 800 port these days, but I think that most people are perfectly content with USB 2.0. It would have been nice to see Apple throw in and extra USB or two in place of the firewire though.
Reply to this comment
by cdlenfert82 October 21, 2009 11:24 AM PDT
exactly, one more USB would be a decent trade
by CedricCu October 21, 2009 9:49 AM PDT
All of my recording equipment is firewire (MOTU) so not having it would be a deal breaker. As a graphic designer, photographer and musician I am in the 'pro' computer segment, not the 'entry-level' segment, so this Mac is not made for me. Hopefully Light Peak will turn out to be a good replacement for firewire.
Reply to this comment
by z1221 October 21, 2009 2:24 PM PDT
I totally agree with you. As a musician and a amateur photographer, the lack of firewire would make it necessary for me to buy a MacBook Pro when the time comes for me to buy a portable (when I ditch my modified Mac Mini). I have too many firewire devices.
by lil-yankee October 27, 2009 1:55 PM PDT
I'm not a musician or anything like that and I too appreciate FireWire which is why I have a 17 inch pro.
Shouldn't you guys just get a pro? Thanks in advance
by elhijuela October 21, 2009 9:51 AM PDT
Apple is targeting the masses with this entry level Macbook. Except for tech-savy people, the average user don't even know what firewire is. High-en users won't buy a Macbook.
Reply to this comment
by streamline35 October 21, 2009 12:05 PM PDT
Really? Because I know a couple people (college students, like myself) that are probably about ready for new macbooks, and they have large external hard drives that use firewire. Are they supposed to blow another hundred+ bucks on new external hard drives when they have perfectly good ones that they can't connect to their computers?
by redgeminipa October 22, 2009 5:01 AM PDT
@ streamline35

No. Just spend $200 more and go for the base 13" Pro with more specs and FireWire. Plus, it has a built-in SD card reader. You really do get some nice enhancements for the extra $200. Besides, the FireWire on the MacBook was only 400. On the base MacBook Pro 13", you get one that's 800... twice as fast. USB 2.0 can support up to 480 Mbps vs. 400 Mbps for FireWire 400.
http://store.apple.com/us/product/FB403LL/A?mco=MTExOTk5NTQ#overview
vs.
http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs-13inch.html
by josh81 October 22, 2009 8:00 AM PDT
^^ Or just spend like, what, $10 for a new external enclosure. Done.
by jumpjetta October 22, 2009 9:32 AM PDT
@ redgeminipa35

My FW 400 seems to beat out USB 2.0 for transfers any day of the week mainly because (and I haven't bothered to look up specs - this is from observation) FW appears to handle multiple file copies simultaneously while USB 2.0 slogs almost to a halt if you initiate one transfer of a large file and then a second later a second transfer of another large file. FW will simply churn through both (or multiple) transfers.

Another thing is that the power handling on FW seems FAR more robust than that of USB 2.0. I have several large capacity 2.5" hard drives and none of them need power bricks with FW. The same drives also have USB 2.0 ports, but require supplemental power if connected via USB. Bleck.

Again, these are observations, not based on specs. But my sense is that the 480 mbps of USB 2.0 vs. the 400 mbps of FW has always been a "sales spec" and not borne out by real world use. It has always felt like FW 400 was over-engineered and very robust, while USB tends to run on the low-end of engineering possibilities and tends to crap out a lot or cause other instabilities.
by MeepMan October 22, 2009 4:27 PM PDT
To redgeminipa,
This is an unfortunate spec. error. Firewire has its own card in the computer to allow the card to do more of the processing and less cpu involvement in transferring files. Also, USB has a much larger overhead.
by macsound October 21, 2009 10:16 AM PDT
I think that FireWire is a HUGE format that is very widely used. Apple says all the time how USB doesnt live up to its 480Mbps and FW gets much closer to its 400. I know that using FW harddrives are fast but Video cameras are the biggest part. I dont know of a real camcorder- consumer or professional that uses USB to connect. DVCAM and HDCAM are both controlled via FW and it was nice to be able to use the macbook when you couldnt cart around the Mac Pro from the office.
Reply to this comment
by MeepMan October 22, 2009 4:40 PM PDT
Forget the part where 1394b kicks butt? That's important to note. 1394b and c specs are better, and the upcoming 1394d firmware release will kick USB 3.0 butt in its ability to move files.
by pkscout October 21, 2009 10:41 AM PDT
Last time they eliminated firewire at the low end, the only way to get it back was to go with the 15" MacBook Pro and spend an additional $500 or so. It meant you had to make a hard choice between a firewire port and a smaller computer. This time I don't think it's a big deal. The 13" MacBook is $150 or so less than the 13" MacBook Pro. I think that is a reasonable price differential for the aluminum unibody, firewire 800, and an IR receiver.
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by cdlenfert82 October 21, 2009 11:31 AM PDT
Does this not come with an IR receiver either? Man the deal keeps getting worse. I just think it's funny to claim that this is geared toward budget consumers at 900+. And that they don't know what Firewire is. I know another computer called the iBook G3 that had this basic, useful capability.
by mobilePCpilot October 21, 2009 11:41 AM PDT
As a mass recorder of over the air tv programming I go through gigabytes per day like most users use kilobytes. A normal day is 100gig+ of encoding into h.264. When I copy these files I use all of the bandwidth I can get.

Theoretically USB 2.0 is as fast as Firewire 400. But in real practice it's not even close.

With how well Macs do video. And the huge size of these video files. Apple did a disservice to it's users by dropping Firewire.
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by atomicbomb156 October 21, 2009 11:47 AM PDT
The price of the Macbook is still annoying, but I was considering buying the old Macbook since it had the Firewire port that is required for my old third gen iPod. Apple I need consistency. CONSISTENCY! Now all of Apples products don't offer removable batteries. I hate you Apple. I lost most of my respect for you back in 2005. Now there is none.
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by streamline35 October 21, 2009 12:09 PM PDT
It's true - they go through proprietary ports so fast that you pretty much have to keep spending money on adapters or just get new products all the time. My housemate has a perfectly good 17 inch apple display that she can't use with her 3 year old macbook because apple ditched the ADC video connection, and now the monitor is completely worthless. Since then, they only sane thing they did was put a DVI port on the macbook pro a couple years ago, but then they changed it back to a display port that you need to shell out for an adapter to connect it to any normal monitor.
by george_liquor October 21, 2009 12:59 PM PDT
You can get an ADC-to-DVI adapter for that monitor. Of course, to connect it to a newer Macbook, you would then need a DVI-Displayport adapter. There are good reasons why Apple added Displayport to the newer machines, but would it have killed them to keep the mini DVI or maybe add an HDMI port?
by JWilliams06 October 21, 2009 1:29 PM PDT
I agree completely. I purchased my first MacBook (Early 08 model) late last year because I was SO impressed with the iPod touch - using OSX must really make the experience better. (At the time, I was using OSx86 - but there were some issues). Sold the Dell picked up an Apple. Now, their support is MUCH MUCH better. But, I'm done with Apple.

With Windows 7 now out and the lack-luster reasons to upgrade to Snow Leopard, and them making things WAY, WAY too proprietary, I can't say I'll but another Macintosh. I don't blame them for doing what they do, (they are a business after all!) - the reasoning for using their computers over the competition is starting to get very slim. Count me one and done.

P.S. - (Not entirely Apples fault) Adobe fix Flash player for OSX, it sucks.
P.S.S. - (Entirely Apple's fault) Boot Camp drivers SUCK ... they'll never fix them. "Use Windows on a Mac" has appeared to be a "half truth".
by streamline35 October 21, 2009 3:01 PM PDT
@george_liquor

Trust me, I researched it thoroughly. The ADC-to-DVI adaptor costs $100, and then the mini-DVI to DVI is another $30. Basically it would cost $130 to maybe get it working, and it's dubious as to whether it would actually work going through that many adapters (I never found anyone online that seemed to have it 100% working).

For a $130, You could buy a decent 19" monitor these days with VGA and DVI inputs and no question about if it would work or not (plus you wouldn't be encouraging apple to constantly change and sell all those display adapters for bogus prices)
by Juice875 October 21, 2009 12:05 PM PDT
I still have data stored on 3.5" floppies, therefore Apple should include a floppy drive.

Buy an adapter and get over it.
Reply to this comment
by streamline35 October 21, 2009 12:17 PM PDT
Easy to say when you don't have expensive hardware that still uses firewire (which isn't nearly as outdated as floppies). Would you like to point out a cheap USB to firewire adapter that people could buy to use with this new macbook?
by tappy727 October 21, 2009 12:28 PM PDT
Or just don't buy the Macbook and get over it.
by MrRetardo October 21, 2009 12:14 PM PDT
Apple says you don't need it, so it must be true!! And if you're "Professional" then you can afford to buy alternate hardware. Apple doesnt make mistakes!! The only mistake made is when POOR people buy a Mac.
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by shofixti October 21, 2009 12:35 PM PDT
As long as Apple changes their stance on booting from USB, and adds USB target mode, I'm okay with it. Otherwise, losing the ability to boot externally or use the laptop as a Firewire disk is sort of annoying, as it's useful for debugging and repairs. Wouldn't be so bad except the new construction also makes it harder to get the hard disk out.

On the other hand, it's the lowest-end model, so one sort of has to expect cut corners.
Reply to this comment
by streamline35 October 21, 2009 12:43 PM PDT
"On the other hand, it's the lowest-end model, so one sort of has to expect cut corners."

Yeah, except I can remove the bottom cover of my $400 netbook by just undoing a handful of screws and removing a single piece of plastic, and voila: immediate access to the ram, hard drive, wifi card, speakers, etc... If the hard drive ever dies, it will take just a few minutes to remove, trouble shoot, and maybe replace. "Cheap" doesn't have to mean "pain in the butt". (Did I mention I can remove the battery? My current is a 5+ hour 6 cell - I'm getting an extra 8+ hour 9 cell for my Europe trip)
by tingentleman October 21, 2009 12:37 PM PDT
Still rely on FireWire for my (up to date) MOTU Audio Interface. Lots of musicians in the same boat... feels like a squeeze to get artists to upgrade all the way to a Pro. But for what? 1.5"s? We're not THAT vain...
Reply to this comment
by Renegade Knight October 21, 2009 12:49 PM PDT
I don't use Firewire, I won't miss it.
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by bboyswoosh87 October 21, 2009 1:02 PM PDT
If only they gave options whether you wanted firewire or not. I was considering this macbook, but since it does not have a firewire i will look else where. Another thing that bothers me about the macbook is that apple should give you the option of having a back lit keyboard because that comes really handy also. I honestly like the macbook rather than the macbook pro's design it just looks better to me. Now that i look at better apple does have that special apple tax that fanboys don't mine paying for.
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by evropierre October 21, 2009 1:25 PM PDT
I have to have firewire to edit my videos from my already old but semi pro camcorder Panasonic, and without Firewire, i just would not be able to do it.
So, in order to be upgrading it to a new camcorder i am eyeing (JVC GY-HM100U) which uses SD cards, i need another $ 3 500, which is a lot for a 10$ (or less) port.
And after having used the old firewire on a second generation iPod, and the USB 2 of iPhones, i can appreciate that Firewire still was faster, years ago!
Reply to this comment
by BriHi October 21, 2009 1:38 PM PDT
Firewire is going to go away soon anyway. It was best for tape based video cameras and all that is going to be a card of some type. Having said that, if you want Firewire, pay a few more bucks for the MacBook Pro.
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by MrRetardo October 21, 2009 9:29 PM PDT
Exactly!!! Poor People do NOT deserve a Mac!! If you can't afford it, or afford to keep up, then get left behind with the other poor slobs!!!
by mmntech October 21, 2009 1:41 PM PDT
I use one of the original Unibody Macbooks and the lack of FireWire was never a problem until recently. I really wish it had a FW800 port for transferring large video files. I suppose I could get an MBP but I can't justify buying a new laptop when my current one is less than a year old.

It would be nice if Apple started offering eSATA ports on their laptops, especially the Pros.
Reply to this comment
by dasspunk October 21, 2009 2:06 PM PDT
This is a huge problem for me and a deal breaker. I've been waiting to upgrade my older Macbook but I MUST have firewire. All my drives, audio interfaces, etc... use Firewire. *** Apple?

Also, there's yet ANOTHER display connection requiring ANOTHER f'ing adapter. That == suck.
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