Why so much hate for the Memory Stick?
Sony's little pain in the wallet.
(Credit: Sony Electronics)Last week I posted a review of the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-WX1, but this post is not really about my review. It's about two user reviews (written by users I doubt have actually used the camera). One calls my review flawed, while the other praises the camera and then gives it a half-star rating out of five stars. Why? Sony's use of Memory Stick media for storage.
According to the first user review, the reason my review was "flawed" was because I didn't mention the use of Memory Stick media as a con and a reason not to buy the camera. I'm sorry, but I don't see what the big freakin' deal is with buying a Memory Stick. Yeah, it would be swell if I didn't have to pay $30 for an 8GB Memory Stick Pro Duo and instead could get a generic 8GB SDHC card for $18. But, honestly, Sony's use of proprietary media, I/O ports, and miscellaneous other technologies shouldn't be news to anyone--it's been doing it for forever. In the case of Memory Stick, since 1998. Get over it already.
The other review complains that there are only two manufacturers of Memory Stick media--Sony and SanDisk--and when the user used a SanDisk card, the WX1 popped up a message saying it may not record. Problem is, I did and do all my testing using the SanDisk card mentioned and never got an error or any other kind of message. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but I'm willing to bet there's something else going on.
Regardless, cutting a rating down to half a star strictly because you don't like buying a proprietary memory card makes no sense. It doesn't help readers or potential buyers.
There are benefits to a closed system--just ask anyone using an Apple computer. And, well, licensing fees keep a lot of companies in business. Does it suck that you are forced to buy a Memory Stick? If you already have SD cards for other products, then yes, sure. But, frankly, no one made you buy Sony products, and hey, at least be grateful it's not an xD card.
Josh Goldman is a senior editor for CNET Reviews, covering digital cameras, camcorders, and related bits and pieces, along with writing the occasional laptop or software review. He doesn't have a podcast, newsletter, or CNET TV show, but you can follow him on Twitter if that's something you do. E-mail Josh. 
http://www.meritline.com/mcirosd-to-memory-stick-pro-duo-adapter---p-36770.aspx
Problem solved. Like you said, this isn't the first coming of proprietary media, and it's been around long enough that there's work-arounds if you're that concerned.
I think CNet's reviews should take COST OF OWNERSHIP into account when giving reviews. This is especially important for printers. Ink costs HOW MUCH?
My issue with the memory stick was very real. I didnt think it was a big deal at first. I tried to format the memory card, nothing happened. This pop-up came up every time I turned the camera on, every time I went into and out of the menu system, and I had to click the "ok" button every time I saw it to get it off the screen. You guys hate pop-ups in web browsers, its the SAME issue here.
So, I called Sony, they spent about a half hour on the phone with me trying to figure this issue out. They ended up saying "it is what it is, get a Sony branded card and it will stop." I am glad it did not happen to you, but it was a very real issue to me. I actually ended up keeping the camera, but had to mail back the Sandisk card, and then re-order a Sony brand card(the Sandisk actually worked fine in my old Sony camera, so my issue was wx1 specific). Once I received the Sony brand card, it worked fine. Imagine that. So, there was "nothing else going on," as you put it.
My big propblem with this(and I am glad it did not happen to you, maybe its only x% of wx1 that has the issue), is what are the benefits to a closed system? I knew going into this Id have to get a "memory stick," it just didnt work with another brand.
Is Apple actually better because they are closed? There are too many complaints with the iphone and app submission process to say "whatever you want Apple." Does Sony make a bunch more money being proprietary? If they do, who does that hurt? You guys are supposed to be here for the consumer, and you think proprietary is good? Do you actually like DRM? Why should a consumer pay twice the amount for a proprietary cable vs a standard cable thats more universal? Are we just supposed to make the status quo and not speak up when a company is doing something many people have an issue with? Am I supposed to not say anything about HTC using a mini-usb to 3.55mm adapter for my G1? They have a work around for, so by your standards, I should just accept that and get over it.
So, with that being said, and it was a long post(and real questions for you), do you still not see a reason for consumers to speak out? Remember, you guys are for the consumer. You guys are supposed to help fight for us.
How about you start your own linux based devices?
and some of the devices are not only closed environments, they are also expensive.
You should give them for free,,,,,,
Sorry, again, I wasn't trying to suggest your problem wasn't real or that you were to blame, just that there might be a hardware problem with the WX1 or the SanDisk card (and from your comment, it sounds like the WX1 had the issue). I'm familiar with the message; I've gotten it when testing Sony's DVD camcorders when I use a non-Sony disc.
One of the benefits to a closed system is that all of the products are made to work together. Your MS issue is a good example. It seems had you just bought a Sony Stick in the first place, the camera would've worked perfectly and you would have never known anything else. Does that hurt the consumer? Sure, but again, it's the difference between getting something out of the box that works properly or taking your chances by getting an off-brand. Manufacturers usually recommend using their own products with their devices because that's what they've been tested with. Or, they'll make recommendations for products that have been tested and approved to work with their devices. Want to use something not recommended and there's a chance it may not work properly.
Everyone took away something different from this post, which I think is awesome and, well, now I have more information on what our readers are looking for from my reviews. I never said I was in favor of proprietary things or closed systems, just that a decade into Sony using Memory Stick is a bit late to start complaining about it. And I'm sorry, but I don't think blowing the curve on the star rating is the way to get your point across. You didn't show your rancor with Sony's practices by returning your camera. Instead you went and got a Sony Memory Stick because, guessing by your review, you like the camera. I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset about what happened or that you shouldn't have been vocal about it. I just don't agree with taking it out on a camera that you clearly liked enough to deal with the problem.
You may think of the use of a Memory Stick as not being a con, but realistically for many people it would be. Not only that, but I didn't see mention of the requirement of this non-standard memory mentioned in your review at all. That is not helpful to readers or potential buyers.
As a senior editor, you should be responsible enough to understand that.
However, I still don't see it as being a con other than not wanting to pay $15 extra for a Sony media card. And as jptobin pointed out above, there are ways around the problem.
I suspect the one big turn-off involves having to buy a whole new type of media (and whole new type of reader in some cases) for the creature.
I use the ancient-but-still-serviceable CF cards for my (also relatively old) Minolta Maxxum D5. Most DSLR's IIRC also use them. The reason is that you can re-use the cards you already have, you know the readers are universal, swapping platforms is just that much easier* and that even your old small capacity ones can be used in a pinch.
*well, as far as memory goes in my case... I have way too many Minolta lenses and film SLR bodies at home to justify swapping yet, but most folks usually just have whatever lens showed up with their SLR body.
I remember my very first decent digital camera - a Fuji FinePix 5000. My wife has it now as her plaything. Why? It's not because the camera was lacking (it still does a pretty bang-up job of shooting impromptu photos), but because the things required a $#@! XD chip. The average Joe can't really find readers for that type of storage anymore (so she burns battery and transfers the pix off via USB cable).
It can be a con if you have a house full of one type card but then there's a requirement for another. Not a really big one mind you, but enough to make one stop and think.
Most DLSRs sold today now use SD, not CF. Only the higher-end models continue to use CF because many (me included) have a ton invested in CF cards. But if the camera manufacturers get their way, SD will be used across the board. In fact many high-end cameras already have both CF + SD slots to support this transition.
First off -- my background -- I was the Technical Editor of Popular Photography, I was also a Commercial photographer, Fashion Photographer, and photojournalist -- in the days of FILM.
There were then TWO types/sizes of universally available and purchasable film -- 35MM and 120MM. Each of those sizes was usable in virtually ALL (remember "virtually") -- available cameras. During my tenure at Pop Photo -- 35mm was used in various formats -- like 36X24mm - Half Frame 18X24 and a few others --- but ALL with the same roll film size. And this size stemmed from common 35MM Motion Picture film as begun by the seminal Leica Cameras. In other words -- A STANDARD -- which meant it was findable anywhere in the world where film was sold.
The two and a quarter inch size -- which was 6X6 Centimeters, could also be used in cameras like the ubiquitous twin lens Rolliefllex and interchangeable lens Hasselblad, among other Square format cameras. It was also used as 6X9 in some European rectangular format cameras and Ultra-wide angle cameras like the Panoramic Widelux that I wrote about in Pop Photo.. So it was the OTHER medium format STANDARD Size roll film that was available virtually anywhere in the world, where film was sold.
Of course, in my work I used cut film from 4X5 to 8X10 studio cameras and Speed Graphic Press Cameras that virtually all professionals used and in some cases STILL use for specialized work and large posters and Billboards.
True -- I also shot with cameras like the Minox and a few other Sub-miniature and "spy" cameras -- but one chose the size for it pocketable nature and lived with the fact that you had to carry ALL the Minox or 16MM cartridge film you expected to use on a trip or an assignment -- because IF you didn't have it with you -- you wouldn't expect to find it anywhere in the world, except perhaps New York, London or Paris.
So in the case of these SPECIALIZED cameras -- you bought them for the CAMERA features you wanted and lived with and stocked up on what you would need. Availability or Cost be damned and were NOT part of the equation.
Now -- let's flash forward 50 years, to TODAY! (Yes -- I really DO mean 50 years.)
Digital photography -- which I love and passionately write about --(check out my blog WWW.NETSURFERNEWS.COM -- if you wish) is God's gift to photography and photographers. With so many choices of camera features, sizes, types (BIG, small, waterproof, still and Video) the world is our oyster. Of course, shooting Oysters in their natural environment would be much safer with one of those waterproof cameras. BUT -- the many vcarieties of CAPTURE media -- are now an IMPORTANT and often THE criteria in which of these digital marvels you might buy. BATTERIES -- are another.
To professionals and "ProSumers" -- the Availability of memory types and sizes as well as Batteries -- can be Useful or Useless, buy or don't buy DETERMINANTS!!!
So now -- let's get to what advanced photographers and VIDEOGRAPHERS -- need I say -- like me -- use to make up our purchasing decisions;
Given a list of choices for camera/camcorders and such:
Size -- big/small
Sharpness -- Resolution ? high, low
Zoom range -- normal to Super Zoom or interchangeable
Weight
Viewfinders ? optical/Wing-type Swingable LCD types
Aperture size -- Fast, Slow
Sensor -- ISO light sensitivity -- High, Low
Color quality and range
Focus Range -- Macro
BATTERY SIZE, WEIGHT, ENDURANCE, AVAILABILITY AND EQUALLY IMPORTANT ? AVAILABILITY IN THE FIELD (Where standard batteries like re-chargeable if possible AA ? or common Alkaline) are the highest choice. Many cameras because of their size or shape don?t allow the common as dirt types ? so they will be purchased DESPITE their special batteries ? because the camera itself is important enough to compromise.
MEMORY TYPE, SIZE and FORMAT-- including size in Gigabytes ? speed of transfer, availability of type ? such as FLASH --SD --SDHC ? in video ? HD (Dying fast or probably DEAD Now) ? MP4 and other ?Flash? memories, including speed of transfer to Hard Drive and into Non Linear Editing Programs.
Anyway, it may not warrant half a star out of five, but certainly it's reasonable to ding the camera for using a proprietary memory device that's more expensive than what 90% of other cameras use. And by bringing Apple into the conversation, you're forgetting the most important thing: reviews are subjective. One person's "advantage" of a closed system is another's disadvantage. So let's quit whining and remember you're paid to write opinions about tech products.
Hardware almost always uses software. And the same annoying things can be said of propriety hardware. Maybe even more so. Hardware is harder to change. So a camera manufacturer has to tweek its product line to accommodate another vendor. You end up fragmenting the customer base and the minority group will also scream and holler that they are not getting enough love. And you end up with a mess.
Look at cell phones and how just about every phone has its own proprietary set of cables and chargers. Is there really a reason why when I switch phones I have to buy new usb cables and chargers besides the fact that the connectors are proprietary?
And I think apple doing proprietary things are bad bad bad. iphone apps in particular. Why force someone to install a proprietary app when there is a perfectly good equivalent web app that runs on any platform? Whats the point besides allowing that proprietary platform from dominating a market and calling the shots. Its what we've been working away from for decades.
As for competing memory card formats, the whining is pointless. Many PC's have multi-memory card readers so accessing the content of any memory card isn't an issue for anyone. This isn't like VHS vs Betamax where you couldn't easily interchange the content on the tape.
Wouldn't make that bet - I've used cameras with XD cards, and they're no better or no worse.
Sony might have the advantage of using higher-quality materials (well, unless we're talking batteries - heh), but the mere fact of it being proprietary doesn't necessarily make it better.
To each their own.
Most products come with proprietary stuff these days. Look at cell phone chargers until the recent agreement to use micro-USB you were SOL if you forgot/lost/broke your charger and the carrier store stopped selling your phone and it's parts.
I used to have a Sony, and I actually gave it to a friend after my frustration at always having to find the special cable for it, since the standard cable wasn't compatible and my card readers couldn't read the memory card. When you're swapping between different cameras, it can really become an issue. I didn't really realize what a pain it was until I had owned the camera for several months.
But as you said, this issue has been around for a while. At this point, most people probably know whether this is going to be a problem for them or not.
Granted I think they should move to the "industry standard" if their own tech falls by the wayside, but it still isn't a big deal.
I agree with you. Although after having a owned a few camera's that use SD/SDHC the fact that Sony uses MS has kept me from purchasing their camera's and will until there isn't a camera comparable to the Sony I am comparing it to that uses SD. One thing people should keep in mind though, is just how GOOD MS/MS DUO is as a flash memory. It's base read/write speed is faster than SD/SDHC and I have found that the build quality is always a little better, since you don't have so many of those "generic" companies building them super cheap.
Yup it's annoying at times that Sony does this, but you can't knock em down just for that. It's a perfectly legitmate memory format and they support it very well. i.e. it hasn't fallen behind in development.
Perhaps the topic was to touchy for some huh lollll but the answer is right in....... jptobin's post
One could, I think, easily argue that this is the same sort of Sony-thinking that has occurred for many, many years and that has pushed them from the forefront of many consumer electronic domains (the MP3 player being the most poignant example until of late - love my fairly current model!).
Unlike Apple, whose closed system often, but not always, meant superior products, Sony can't make that argument in regard to the proprietary media.
I wouldn't knock a Sony camera that hard for its use of proprietary storage media, but I think if more folks spoke up and complained about such matters it may help move Sony away from such decisions when there is no clear advantage to their proprietary product.
There is no clear advantage with the memory stick.
In fact I have not bought a sony camera because of the memory stick. I have gone through several generations of cameras. I almost did not buy a Sony TV that had a memory stick slot! ( I did not want a memory stick {Junk} slot in the front of my TV)
The memory slot has totally backfired.
It must be a genetic defect in the Sony DNA
So, after investing $1,000 in a Sony F707 in the early days of the emerging digital camera market, I am now left with a $1,000 paper weight. I saw one on ebay for $25.00.
The camera works perfectly fine, last I checked. It's a great camera. But, because Sony abandoned me and every other F707 owner, we lost our investment in Sony. Never again. I recently bought a Canon Rebel.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6190882&type=product&id=1067390601612
Infact I even used my M2 card with a M2 adapter to plug into my MS duo adapter to use.
The main issues with newer cards are generally the maximum capacity that the device can read. Take even for example a sonyE k750i cellphone. Although mine has no problem reading a 2GB card, larger capacity ones it is unable to. But of course, I can use a similar size 2GB M2, couple with an adapter, it can read just as fine.
But no sweat, just blame on technological advances for our distress though...
I have not purchased a Sony product that requires their proprietary memory format and will never do so.
Sony brings NOTHING new to the table with their format. It is just a cheap gimmick to get a few more bucks out of every purchase and I refuse to participate.
- by Zacm05 October 9, 2009 1:15 PM PDT
- MemoryStick, as long as it has been around, has been a useless format. There are many other smaller, cheaper, more convenient forms of flash memory out there that are much more universal across a swath of electronic devices. I am sorry, but I can't buy a MemoryStick-only product. I like lots of Sony products, but the ones with MemoryStick are useless to me.
- Like this Reply to this comment
-
Showing 1 of 4 pages (122 Comments)