Blu-ray's new threat: CBHD--based on HD DVD

(Credit: Chine Informations)

Now that Blu-ray has won the format war with HD DVD we can all relax and buy Blu-ray players and not have to worry about what physical format our disks are, right?

Maybe not. Besides outside pressure from the combination of high-speed broadband and HD streaming media, a new challenger has risen to seriously challenge Blu-ray's superiority. And it's based heavily on its oldest rival: HD DVD.

Meet China Blue Hi-definition Disk (CBHD), a new HD video disk format based heavily on Toshiba's HD DVD format. Toshiba has licensed its technology to the CBHD group for use in China. The format now has the official backing of the Chinese government and some analysts think it could be the global per-unit HD leader in as little as twelve months. It's already outselling Blu-ray in China.

That's because compatible players are selling at three times the rate of Blu-ray players. In addition, the disks are cheaper to make than Blu-ray disks.

It would be easy to assume that the new format would be a China-only issue, but as English is the second most-spoken language in Asia, and China can be bullish about exporting its tech, you could see as many Western movies in English show up on CBHD as you do on Blu-ray. That means the possibility of an export grey market, one thing Blu-ray doesn't need right now.

So far it appears as if the only major U.S. studios on board with CBHD so far is Warner, but given the size of the Chinese audience and its appetite for Hollywood movies (any street corner in Shanghai will net dozens of pirate copies of U.S. blockbusters) it would be foolish for the other studios to ignore the format for long.

Together with streaming HD, this could be a one-two punch against Blu-ray that may turn into a knockout. The smug backers of the Blu-ray format need to take these threats seriously. The format can't be selling as well as Sony and its friends had wanted, so combined with the alternatives, it's clear something needs to change.

[MickBurke]

OK, this is just utter incompetence. You see, the chinese government can't force anyone but their OWN people to buy this crap, and they can't prevent anyone from getting blu-ray except their own(savagely repressed) people.

That is the only thing that this format has going for it.

I just can't fathom why you people are so pissed off that blu-ray is succeeding. This is the same hddvd fear mongering you people tried two years ago. Get over it.

[Super2online]

It's been reported repeatedly that all things considered HD DVD was the better format. The reason for it's demise was that in the end of the battle one studio caved in (after just announcing they would continue supporting both formats) and then the rest immediately tumbled.

Dispite that, Blu-ray has succeeded, it just won't acheive the same sales levels of the DVD format for several reasons. Many think the DVD format is good enough, and by most measurements it is. Most new TV's are coming with net connectivity now, which means streaming movies will give it a serious run for its money if not take over completely. Vizio just released a new brand with several models appearing that sport remotes that include a slide out keyboard in the same way cell phones feature them. When you think about it, you begin to wonder why it took them so long for that to happen. They also include Facebook and Twitter integration. Sony and others are also including these features in more models as well.

Blu-ray has succeeded, but it's glory and time at the top will be fleeting.

[Alphaman63]

@Super2online

Bollocks. "It has been reported... HD DVD was the better format". Well, it's been reported that Apollo astronauts never walked on the moon, but are you going to believe that just because "it's been reported"? Blu-Ray has always been superior -- bandwidth, capacity, potential, and open source Java solutions vs. proprietary Microsoft-only apps.

And it wasn't that just "one studio caved", but multiple studios went BR over a period of years, although there was "one straw that broke the camel's back". More importantly, there were multiple BR drive manufacturers, vs. just one HD DVD manufacturer.

[umbrae]

Ok, tons of FUD in this thread.

First off, HDDVD and BR were identical in specs. BR had some future specs that topped out HDDVD, but those have still not materialized. There were also more manufactures that Toshiba for HDDVD. There were more BR manufacturers, but only a couple at the time.

Which you choose was just who you wanted to win. Thing is China is a big market and produce a lot of what you use. If China stops producing BR discs: expect the price to jump. Also if CBDVD is popular in China and BR does not pick up then we could have the same flip flop. So this is valid, but it depends on how tough the China is on pushing this format. In the US we like to upplay our dominance, but China rules the show more than we like to admit.

[TLEIBLE]

All the Bluray backers have all so conveniently forgotten to mention the undisclosed MILLIONS of dollars they paid Toshiba to "just go away" and Toshiba being the smarter of the two took the money and ran!

Ever since Sony lost it's war to VHS they've had a bug up their @ss and would at any cost "just win one"........It's wonderful to see another format come in and challenge and already dying bluray format. They really thought the average Joe would pay $400 to $500 for an entry level player when you can buy one that up-scales for 50 bucks? Now that's brilliant marketing! LOL!

Funny how all the rental stores used to have Bluray's everywhere......now you're lucky to find one shelf. All DVD's will be dead in the next few years once streaming HD becomes perfected.

Bluray NEVER succeeded but merely existed unchallenged for the last couple of years and still was a COMPLETE failure!

[dream4game]

China is like a Xerox photocopy Machine , try to copy everything, spoiling economy of every other country , today they promote it, tomorrow they will give these copying rights to normal people ,......,

China show of them self as techy by copying others , they copy every thing from iphone to all the other things......and come out with cheaper price tag.

[SpiroExDeus]

Yeah but Japan used to have a similar reputation and now they're a world leader. I'm no fan of China but I could see it becoming a major influence on Electronics in the next few decades. If it follows a similar path to Japan it should start off doing cheap copies, move on to cheaper but better (in some areas it's already started to do this - look at the range of filetype support on some of it's DivX DVD players and it puts most other stuff in the shade - while the West & Japan work on their own proprietary formats China attempts maximum compatibility with ALL formats in some of it's better products) and when it's gained revenue start going into Research & Development and from there become a genuine heavy-hitter in the electronics world. Sometimes there's a real benefit to their being copycats. When Apple is trying to rip me off by charging £Stupid for a charging cable (that is almost undoubtably double the equally $Stupid American price) or I could order an identical cable for the ¥CheapChineseYuan price + postage which will almost certainly be cheaper and of just as high quality (it's only a cable!). I'm absent minded so cheap docking cradles and cables are important to me - I lose charge/data cables far too often to pay Apple's ridiculous prices.

[rrod182]

Yawn. Someone drank the CCA (China Cool Aid).

[thegreenmenace]

don't you hate it when you try to be witty and make a spelling mistake (Kool-Aid)

[holywarrior007]

Blu-ray has lots of challenges. Sony and its friends would have to do something quickly in order to reduce the cost of Blu-ray disks. Otherwise the format will not grow up to its potential. They tried to reduce the cost of licensing by launching a one-shop stop license. But I wonder what is its status of this effort.

[Alphaman63]

The author wrote "The format can't be selling as well as Sony and its friends had wanted". What market data do you base this statement on?

From everything I've seen and read (and I'll admit, I'm just one person who remotely follows the industry), the market growth and price-points are all within the range projected years ago. Discs are now in the $10-20 range in many stores, and players have fallen below the $100 price point well before Xmas 2009. Market sales are tracking better than comparable sales for DVD over a decade ago, showing that new media adoption is doing well.

Is it doing as well as someone may have WISHED? Probably not. Is it tracking plans? I'd venture to say probably so. I guess I shouldn't be surprised, what with this being the Crave Blog, but I'm disappointed that a blog and its associated personal opinion is hosted on a NEWS.cnet.com site.

[AddisonL]

Awww, poor liddle Matt.

Still crying over your POS Xbox 360 and HD-DVD addon?

BluRay continues to be adopted at a rate higher than the VHS to DVD transition.

Cry, Microsoft/Xbox fans, cry.

[kamiller42]

There is truth in your words. I can rely on CNet to have news that puts Blu-ray in any sort of bad light. Some people at Cnet still have sour grapes over the high def format wars.

CNet, the war is over. You loved HD DVD, but it's over. Move on. Embrace the winner. I promise it won't hurt you.

[osukef]

all i have to say....VCD....did that sh*t ever catch on here?...NO...but its huge in China. I mean, they're almost big enough to be their own world...ie - they do what they want! lol...this article a just a tad silly. I'll admit Blue Ray has a lot of hurdles to get over if it wants to be the next DVD....but just because China of all places has come up with some strange alternative doesn't mean we should be writing BR's tombstone!

Just my 2¢

[bathswana]

The PS3 fanboy meltdown in these comments is priceless.

When Microsoft and Nintendo release HD DVD versions of their consoles, it will be pure comedy gold. Hospital psych wards around the world will be full of Sony apologists weeping uncontrollably. I just hope it doesn't get ugly.

[Eludium-Q36]

I'm with Matt on this, Blu-ray is in trouble even though it's a monopoly! I don't have it, none of my friends or family have it, etc etc. The only people that have BR are those with PS3s. HD-DVD had PLENTY of features over BR (DVD play compatible, P-in-P, dual-layer [HD-DVD on one layer, DVD on another], split screen commentary, less expensive equipment and discs, and others I'm sure I've forgotten). BR won the format war because Sony et al freakin BOUGHT the Hollywood distributors! Largest scaled bribery in corp history. I for one am glad to see HD-DVD re-surge in China for now, and the world soon.

[kknights]

Are you friggin' kidding me.! Blu-ray has all those features. Blu-ray was superior in every way, the only thing HD-DVD had going over Blu-ray was PRICE!!! nothing else. Their hardware was crap. Most HD-DVD movies didn't have lossless audio. BD-J was superior then HDi. Blu-ray have higher storage capacity which allows higher video bandwidth, lossless audio, more features, etc... I use to own a HD-DVD add-on for my 360 so I know what HD-DVD is like. 30% of HD-DVD movies I rented were unplayable. 5% of Blu-ray movies were unplayable. It just to show you that the anti-scratch coating helps on Blu-ray discs. HD-DVD players were inexpensive because toshiba was the ONLY manufacturer and they were selling it below cost. No wonder no other manufacturer cared to produce it. Paramount switch over to HD-DVD because the HD-DVD group paid lots of money to them. Why in the hell would they switch over when Blu-ray were consistently selling better then HD-DVD. The ratio in sells were between 2:1 and 3:1with Blu-ray outselling HD-DVD. It's only fair that BDA played their own game as well and paid Warner Bros to support Blu-ray exclusively. HD-DVD lost regardless what dirty tactics they used.

[Preime]

At the time of the format war BluRay was vastly inferior in all but the capacity of the discs. The format wasn't complete (profile 1.0, 1.1 and 2.0 anyone), there was no mandatory minimum spec that HD DVD had, which was also why trying to play a new BluRay release on anything but a PS3 was akin to russian roulette, with players routinely refusing to play the disc (Samsung Bluray player lawsuits anyone?). I remember fondly reading about the fun people had of buying a new BluRay release, and then waiting a few weeks for the manufacturer of their player to release a firmware update so that they could actually play the damn thing. It took until 6 months after HD DVD capitulated for the first Profile 2 capable players to actually hit the market, thereby offering the same functionality that HD DVD had 2 years prior. It was crippled with Region coding, which meant you had to double check every release you imported to make sure it would play on your machine. This was the main reason why I didn't buy a Blu Ray player, and why I still haven't purchased one yet.

[c|net Reader]

When I have to replace my five year old TV, I'll get an HD flat panel of some sort. Until then, DVD produces all the picture my set can display and then some. There's no reason for me to buy a BR player or BR discs, which cost more. I'm quite certain I'm not alone, despite the large numbers who must have the latest. It may well be that CBHD or some other technology will supplant BR before I, and those like me, ever jump the DVD ship.

[Captain Bebops]

HD-DVD was the cheaper of the two formats when it came to production. Studios who were supporting both usually just put the same file on both muxing them to the platform standards. HD-DVD did not require that publishers use AACS. It made it possible for second tier studios to get into the game. Only recently were fees reduced for AACS but unfortunately BD discs still must have AACS or the BD-ROM discs won't play. Upscaled DVDs are nice (if the DVD is mastered properly) but still don't compare to a 1080p HD stream.

[ifuwereahotdog]

Wow, I guarantee you no one here has even heard about CBHD until this article, yet so many are saying its the next best thing. This is Sony bashing at it's best. Anyone who tries to release a new physical format now is basically committing tech suicide.

[Ryan_R]

The main thing I didn't like about HD DVD was how long it took to say it :)

I've already got BluRay in my PS3 and hope it stays the main format (needs to become cheaper). Internet streaming won't take of here in Australia until the NBN is rolled out (FTTN)

[DIGITAL BATH]

If you don't have a hi-def tv, or a blu-ray player, why say anything? No one cares what you think, because you're living in the past. WAKE UP!!! Until then shut up.

[BrittonKeene]

I'm excited. Sony is a dragon that needs to be slain. I'd like nothing more than to ebay my bluray player and movies and be done with them. My only hope is that CBHD can play on existing HD DVD players... which I doubt since they're using "Blue" in their title and HD DVD uses red lasers. All in all, great news though.

[Preime]

Actually, HD DVD also used a blue laser, they just happened to choose red for their packaging. Theoretically CBHD could play on HD DVD players, as they use the same data density and pitch, but the software and codecs would all need to be re-written. I suspect you would be able to eventually play back CBHD movies on your PC if you have one of the HD DVD / BluRay combo drives, but the 360 add-on and the standalone machines are unlikely to ever get official support.

[viper396]

@BrittonKeene "I'm excited. Sony is a dragon that needs to be slain".

Why?! Did someone from Sony kill your pets and ransom your kids? Why are you taking on personal vendettas against companies that don't even know you exist? I guess it's your human nature to gain enjoyment by wanting others to fail. Very pathetic.

Besides, you don't even have your facts straight, HD-DVD also used a blue laser.

[pkh]

No wonder HDDVD failed. Many still think it is Red Laser because of its colour case used. In fact they are all Blue like Bluray.

[nottatrekkie]

Buying bluray is a lot like helping "big brother" move into your house. While the Chinese gov't might normally like that - they aren't the organization that gets the information - companies in other countries are. I suspect they aren't happy about that.

Also, add in licensing costs, the copy protections, and the challenges in creating a bluray player - it is really an expensive proposition. The people that know the technology would face severe legal consequences for using the information to build something more open that could compete.

It seems incredibly ironic that China would be the country to remove constraints on freedom caused by capitalism.

[ifuwereahotdog]

This is funny, if CBHD were the next big thing, why would Toshiba be backing Blu-Ray??? You can spin it anyway you want, but the fact is the losing HD format is now backing the winning HD format. That is usually a good sign for the winning format.

http://www.blu-ray.com/news/?id=3228

And no offense, but anthing with the word "China" in it doesnt really give me much confidence.

[nottatrekkie]

FWIW, Toshiba only lost here. Reading the markets, it seems they are regrouping in China. They have licensed the technology, and they are selling CBHD players there. Only an opinion, but I would guess they are not "backing" bluray, they are only trying to make sure they don't loose name recognition while momentum builds up for this "new" format.

[robnfwtx]

My goodness I see a lot of hate in these comments. Surely everyone hasn't bought into the Blu-Ray bandwagon. I, for one, has not seen any reason to switch from my DVD player to Blu-Ray. I see nothing in the picture quality argument that makes me want to pay more per player and more per movie. In fact, if I really wanted something to work with Blu-Ray, I'd probably just get a cheap player for my PC, convert the movie to Divx, then stream to my XBOX 360 or Apple TV using the latest Firecore firmware.