Apple breaks up Palm Pre-iTunes lovefest
Goodbye Pre.
(Credit: Screenshot by Bonnie Cha/CNET)This post was updated at 2:56 p.m. PDT with a comment from Palm.
Oh dear. We can't say this was a complete surprise, but it looks like Apple made good on its earlier warning and put an end to the Palm Pre-iTunes synchronization with the release of iTunes 8.2.1.
In the release notes, Apple states that "iTunes 8.2.1 provides a number of important bug fixes and addresses an issue with verification of Apple devices." Not wanting to believe the news, we bit the bullet and downloaded the latest version of Apple's music software to our PC and sure enough, the romance is dead.
Just as before, we connected the smartphone to our laptop and selected the Media Sync option on our Pre, but this time, it didn't automatically launch iTunes. Instead, it was only recognized as a mass storage device, and manually launching iTunes did not surface the Pre either (*tears*).
When asked for comment, Palm replied with the same response it had when Apple first issued its warning:
Palm's media sync works with iTunes 8.2. If Apple chooses to disable media sync in iTunes, it will be a direct blow to their users who will be deprived of a seamless synchronization experience. However, people will have options. They can stay with the iTunes version that works to sync their music on their Pre, they can transfer the music via USB, and there are other third-party applications we can consider.
Obviously, this isn't the best news for Pre users, but there are alternative ways to keep the iTunes-Pre synchronization alive. For one, you could just not update to iTunes 8.2.1, or as PreCentral.net points out, there are other third-party solutions, such as doubleTwist and The Missing Sync for Pre, that will allow to sync the smartphone with iTunes.
Anyone else have recommendations or thoughts on this little battle between Palm and Apple? Please share below.
Bonnie Cha is a senior editor for CNET, covering smartphones and GPS. When she's not testing the latest gadgets, you can find her chasing after her crazy lab or surfing in the chilly waters of Northern California. E-mail Bonnie. 
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[CNET editors' note: Personal attack deleted.]
Any third party software can search your HD and organize your songs just like iTunes. Even if you have iTunes and download music that way, the third party programs can be trained to "see" the change in your iTunes folder and update their own databases.
Palm piggybacking onto iTunes for synching without paying a royalty by "tricking" the program into thinking it was an iPod was corporate theft. It's one thing for a private citizen to work out a way to "hack" the syncing, it's quite another for a company as big as Palm to try such shenanigans.
The geeks that post here (including me) are not Apple's target market.
The reason this is different is that Apple makes the hardware and the software they are bundling. MS doesn't make the computers that they were bundling IE with. It was mostly their strong-arm tactics that threatened the computer manufacturers with higher Windows prices, or, worse, no pre-installed Windows at all that the Justice Department found to be illegal. MS essentially insisted that their browser be the only browser, or the default browser, with the optional browser uninstalled and buried, or they would exact a 'penalty' on the manufacturer. That meets at least three of the five criteria for monopolistic behavior borne from market dominance. The Apple situation is not the same (legal) issue at all and they were right to protect the built-in convenience of the iTunes/iPhone synergy.
I understand your point, but disagree. MS is getting LOTS of pressure and fines from the EU at the request of other browser makers because they feel that bundling IE with windows puts them at a disadvantage. Apple is not allowing other manufacturers to interact with the overwhelming dominant music service/store/manager etc. and that puts the competitors at a disadvantage and limits the competition. Apple isn't putting pressure on others to do something, but the end result seems the same to me.
So you're flaming iTunes because your assumptions of how it & the iPod works were wrong? I prefer the close/closed integration between iPod & iTunes because they make like easier
haha i would actually rather watch you do that and be amazed by how smug one person can possibly be than watch him try to breastfeed a wolverine
Enjoy your $5 coffee.
It doesn't have to be profitable as long they make a profit off of iPods and iPhones.
You missed the point of that pretty hard.
Wrong!
There is my point
Do any other hardware/software combinations (i.e. camera manufacturers) actively try to lock out competing devices if the software is a free download?
yeah is more of a symbolic act, i forget to mention that i have a palm pre, so i know all the music that i had buy from itunes is DRM-free(well just recently, but i upgrade my DRM music to non-DRM.) but as i said earlier it not only a music store is also a app store for millions of ipod touches.
You are missing the point. It isn't the STORE, it's the iTunes interface for selecting which media to sync to the phone (or other device).
There is other software to use, it is just nice to have a one-stop shop instead of multiple interfaces.
as many love to point out on these boards, there are many superior music player interfaces out there. why doesn't Palm license with one of those companies? all those players can sort and organize your files, even those bought from Apple.
Yes web developers don't create web browsers but as a user I can either use Firefox, IE, Safari, or whatever else is out there. I don't see web developers forcing any of the web browsers to support their application.
They don't need to - all they have to do is create pages conforming to the published standards of HTML, Java, etc., and they can be reasonably sure their pages will work in all those browsers. That way someone can choose to use Firefox or whatever without being locked in to just the web sites that Firefox wants you to see.
The difference with iTunes software is they they make it hard for people from using it to sync with hardware that Apple Inc. doesn't want you to use.
Other music software follows shared protocols and/or publishes API's so any manufacturer can enable his device to sync with that software. Even Micro$oft's Windows Media Player doesn't try to make you buy a Microsoft MP3 player if you want to sync with it - they publish an API (with reasonably long backward compatibility) so many different companies' players can easily sync with the Microsoft software.
Apple's thinking is that you should buy your music from the iTunes store, use your iTunes software to download and manage your music, and play your music on an iPod or iPhone. For someone who happens to prefer the Apple product for each of those steps, that works fine. But if you want to deal with Apple for part of that sequence, but try to insert a non-Apple product somewhere in that chain, Apple wants to knife your jewels like a psycho stalker who decides you're cheating on her.
That's why some people avoid Apple like the plague. They do have some good stuff to offer, but it often comes at the price of being on Apple's leash when it comes to related products.
or you could know what you are talking about since itunes has been DRM free for months now.
The classic joke of Windows was that its shiny new features were the same features that Mac had been offering for years. Now the iPhone ads offer the radical new concept of... cut and paste? Vive la revolucion! Does it come with a free Che Guevara hat and a uniform, too?
You'd think that this blatant brand of anti-competitive bullying -- the very same kind that MS used to create their empire and that created the fanatic anti-MS counterculture that Apple feeds on -- might jolt the zombie masses from their daze.
But the garden really is beautiful, I don't know why anyone would ever want to leave...
I think you need to stop beating around the bush and just say that Apple is doing what they can to keep the Perfect People together and shun all unworthy beggars. Perhaps we can make them wear six pointed stars to help identify them too.
@shycelticwitch:
I think you need to stop beating around the bush and just say that Apple is doing what they can to keep the Perfect People together and shun all unworthy beggars. Perhaps we can make them wear six pointed stars to help identify them too."
@Vegaman_Dan--That's a little drastic don't you think? So now Apple is the new Third Reich?? I still think that if it is such a big deal that the Pre (a direct competitor to the iPhone) can't use iTunes, then perhaps Pre users should just look for alternative software. Better yet, they could ask Palm to create sync software for the Pre instead of piggy-backing of their competitor. That way, it is no longer an issue what the Pre uses. The Pre is a good device, but Palm seems to have rushed some things to get it to the market, like not creating some syncing software in the vein of iTunes or better.
Why don't we discuss how the found of YOUR favorite OS thinks he can stop a hurricane? ROFLMAO. I think it's time for Mr. Bill's annual mental health check up.
@Vegaman Dan... Your prejudice is showing BADLY. I thought you were of better character than that. At least I didn't single out any particular group of people.
Own it's made only for apple devices them do not allow it to be installed and used with a valid serial from the device you down.
What they are doing is wrong and in my view illegal.
And let me see -- which company has already been sued numerous times in numerous jurisdictions for anti-competitive behavior? Hmmmm.
If you were trying to prove how ignorant you are, you succeeded admirably. If you were trying to prove anything else -- FAIL.
Microsoft has been offering DRM free tracks on Zune Marketplace before Apple has been.
@pamulli: You're comparing Apples and oranges. Microsoft worked hard and built a dominant position in the PC OS market, then used anti-competitive behavior (threats to hardware vendors, etc.) to make sure no other OS could get a toe-hold. Apple worked hard and built a dominant position in the music player and music store markets, and they are doing NOTHING to keep other players out. Anyone who wants to make their own player and start their own store can do so -- like MIcrosoft did and like others are now doing -- without any direct or indirect interference from Apple. It's not Apple's fault that the Zune ****************, and it's not Apple's fault that Palm is too lazy to write their own software.
Only idiots conflate "dominant" with "anti-competitive". Microsoft's Office suite is dominant, but nobody accuses Microsoft of being anti-competitive in that regard. Despite numerous competitors, Office is dominant for a reason, and Microsoft has earned that success.
My love affair with Apple is slowly, but sure beginning to faulter. Can't say I'm heading back to Windows anytime soon, but iPods, iTouchs, and iPhone now are holding even less appeal then ever.
Actually I'm not surprised, but It is amazing how quickly Apple moves to shore up their Wall of Solitude that no one may cross. Can you say Monopoly... Maybe the EU and Federal Trade Commission should take a honest look at how Apple, Inc handles owning 80% of the online music market.
Either way, Palm and the Pre will move forward and continue too make strides in a positive direction towards more open standards that everyone will embrace sooner or later.
Legally the may have room to do that until the government looks at the anti-trust issues surrounding Apple's dominance with iTunes. But ethically and morally, Apple is purely in the wrong. I fully condemn all of Apple's actions on this and I'm writing my representatives in Congress, urging them to pass a law specifically requiring Apple to open up all iTunes content with all devices.
Ideally the FTC would force iTunes to be GPD'd after some heavy fines. But I know that's not realistic. My point is, Apple is in the wrong and what they are doing is not an action against Pre, it is a direct attempt to steal the property of users, and it should be treated and understood as nothing more than black hat hacking.
It would be one thing if the Palm showed up in iTunes as a "Pre" and this was a facility Apple had supported and endorsed and then pulled the plug. But that's not what happened. The Palm identified itself as an iPod, a trademarked, patented and protected product. Please, please explain how that is not infringement on Palm's part.
Again, there is no reason whatsoever anyone needs to use iTunes to sync to the Pre. There are other open applications that do it just fine, and any song bought from iTunes can be used and synced with those applications. Palm has the resources to create their own interface should they choose. That they decided to usurp Apple's interface in order to compete with Apple's products at Apple's expense is about as close to a criminal act as you can get. Rather than sue, Apple has fixed their software to prevent this illegal practice.
Most everyone complaining about this are the same people who call iTunes garbage, would never use it, etc., so why does it matter? There are better programs out there, so use them.
Apple spent money buying the original iTunes interface and employing the engineers, has spent nearly a decade of R&D time and money to improve it, without ever marketing it or claiming it to be an open standard application. Just because Palm exploited a BUG in the software Apple should be forced to accept all third parties using Apple's work without even a royalty payment or license fee?
Hatred of Apple should not blur the reality here. Palm was in the wrong, and they got blocked.
To look at it another way, Palm was basically a bar stealing cable from the bar next door. Sure, the neighbor would have to pay anyway, but it doesn't make it right. And when the bar next door finds out and disconnects the wire, it's the neighbor's fault, not the crook? And worse, Palm was using that stolen cable to compete with their neighbor, like the bar stealing cable showing sports for free, using that stolen cable, and syphoning off customers from the other place.
"Last time I checked, Palm never allowed third party, non-palm devices to use their palm desktop software (back in the day) for syncing."
Multiple companies used Palm's synching software. Palm even encouraged it. Handspring, IBM, several early smart phones- it was commonplace.
Rejoice.
You do not know what you are talking about. Mac Mail have nothing on Entourage.
I'd use OpenOffice, which runs great on Leopard. And I don't think they're going to great lengths (they probably made a minor change in code), nor do I think that they think Palm is a serious competitor. How many Pres were sold opening weekend? How many iPhone 3Gs's were sold? Hint: Pre isn't the winner here.
I love how all the insecure Apple haters have to preface their comments with "All you Apple fanboys" to make themselves feel special.
@damiandennison
I'm afraid it's you that hasn't a clue, because Entourage is a tremendous turd sandwich that I can't wait to get rid of once SL 10.6 comes out and Mail syncs with Exchange. I can't see how anyone can like it; horrible design, no where near as good as Outlook 2007.
iWork is amazing... use Keynote and you will LAUGH at PPT. Even OpenOffice is better than MS Office.
Sorry Cybervipr... i would love to see MS stop creating office productivity apps. They should stick with creating great Operating Systems... oh wait. Never mind. They should stick with creating great Mobile platforms... oh wait. Never mind. They should... oh wait. Never mind.
No more stupid half ass UI modification, no more weird compatibility issue, no more dawg performance.
Ahhhh, I so wish Microsoft to do that!!!
.... right up until something didn't work and they found they didn't have any effective support solutions.
There's a reason why enterprises choose companies that can support their products to the level necessary.
Don't get me wrong, this is definitely good news for me as an Apple shareholder. I personally have an iPhone so I don't really care what happens to Pre but just saying. In fact limiting iTunes only to Apple products = more Apple product sales = higher profit = higher share price. Not that just limiting is going to dramatically boost Apple sales since the iPhone is anyway selling way faster than the Pre.
I feel sorry for people who have already bought the Pre.
Apple's App Store and opportunities certainly bring a smile to investor faces, but I'm already overwhelmed by the 40 or so applications on my Palm Pre from both the legit Pre Store and Homebrew market and have a hard time appreciating another 30k more versions of Hangman and Fart Machines.
Thankfully Palm has opened the door to Open Source and Open Standards that simply threatens Apple's business model. Actually, as an investor, wouldn't it make since to open Apple up and bring in more buyers? More sales means more slices of the pie...but then I guess when Apple thinks they are gods nothing else matters. Sorli...
The EU case had to do with the DRM nature of iTMS. It still applies to movies and TV, but the Palm wasn't able to play that back anyway.
I don't have a Palm Pre, but I'm not rushing to install the new version of iTunes - it's just too big a gamble when the version I have is working ok right now.
Apple never has and never will target their products to geeks. They are content making products that *most* people will love. Too bad they didn't get their act together before MS dominated the PC market.
iPod technology is cool...it companies like Apple who remove the cool factor and replace it with Big Brother watching.
But it is still true that all DRM is done at the behest of studios. Since Apple makes very little money from media, they have every incentive to make the media as open and restriction-free as possible -- it would help them sell more hardware. So if you're going to complain about DRM, complain to the studios.
I used to volunteer for a local community theatare. This is akin to me asking to see someone's drivers license, and them telling them "Sorry, you're not a local, I can't sell you a ticket" (and we're a tourist town). How idiotic would that be?
And here's the answer: Apple deliberately runs the iTunes store at just-above-break-even -- meaning, after paying royalties and operational expenses, they make very little money on music & video sales. They can do that because they make their money on hardware -- iPods, iPhones, etc. It's a reversal of the old razor blades & shavers scenario -- instead of selling the shavers cheap and making all their money on blades, Apple is selling the blades cheap so people will buy the shavers.
So, whether you agree or not with Apple's business strategy, you should agree that Apple has no incentive to allow Palm to piggyback on their software (iTunes sync) and store (iTunes Store). Apple would gain very little from selling music to Pre owners, and allowing Palm to piggyback encourages people to buy Pres instead of iPhones, which means Apple loses a hardware sale.
Make sense?
Try thinking this all the way through...
Pre owners have already bought a razor (they chose a Pre...maybe because they are already tied in with Sprint or AT&T is really bad in their area) and now Apple is saying we don't want you to be able to use our blades (iTunes) on your non-Apple razor, even if that means we lose some profits.
This move isn't going to make Pre owners go out and buy a new razor (iPhone or Ipod). In fact, it might make Pre owners who were being exposed to Apple products via iTunes, turn against Apple and prevent them from becoming future Apple customers (i.e. "...screw Apple, I will never buy from them!").
If iTunes wasn't making a profit, then I could understand Apple's actions. But when a company forsakes profits...there has to be a very strong motivation for them to do so. Bottomline, Apple made this move purely to demotivate future razor buyers from buying a non-Apple razor and then try to use Apple blades (iTunes). A lot of people would view that as anti-competitive.
Boo. Frickin'. Hoo.
Pre wanted to make more money by trying to work with the user.
Apple wants to make money by heavily restricting their hardware and software.
Your memory is pretty short term I see.
Palm as a company is hardly trust worthy from its blazing record of desertions.
And cheating it way into iTunes syncing is not exactly responsible to its costumers.
Palm Pre is doing the piggy-back thing into Apple's software. Last time I checked, I dont think Zune store works with Blackberry or iPhones... How come you dont tell FTC to intervene there??
See! I can make up my own definitions too!
- by externallain July 15, 2009 2:16 PM PDT
- I smell an Anti-trust lawsuit on the horizon.
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- by C0mmanderB0nd July 15, 2009 2:34 PM PDT
- ROFL, corporations dont fear Anti-trust anymore, see how MS stalls out the Anti-trust litigation, it just doesnt fly these days.
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- by polaris20 July 15, 2009 2:40 PM PDT
- Why? You're free to use any music application you wish. Have an iPod? Use iTunes. Have a Zune? Use the Zune software. Don't like being locked into a certain app? Buy a Creative or iRiver. Have a Pre? Use the one it came with. :)
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- by pjhenry1216 July 15, 2009 3:22 PM PDT
- @polaris: You're missing the point. Why should your software lock you in with certain devices if you want to use it? If I want to use iTunes, but own a Palm Pre, I'm SOL in terms of only having to manage one interface. This is completely Apple's fault. It's not Pre's fault. Pre was like, "Hey, you already using iTunes? Well, we'll try to make this easier for you." Apple on the other hand was, "Oh, you're not giving us money? Screw you."
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- by AllenKids July 15, 2009 4:08 PM PDT
- Well don't hold your breath.
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- by aka_tripleB July 15, 2009 6:22 PM PDT
- polaris20
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Showing 1 of 5 pages (247 Comments)That's exactly what anti-trust laws are for: iPod/iTunes, Zune/Zune Marketplace, etc. Not being able to use one without the other is the definition of anti-trust.