April 14, 2009 4:00 AM PDT

All-in-one Nettops resurrecting desktop market

by Erica Ogg
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Note: This article has been corrected to reflect that the Dell Studio One 19 cannot be configured with an Atom processor.

Just a year ago, this category didn't exist. But after several Atom-powered all-in-one PCs debuted at CES in January, it's officially the hottest grouping of desktops on the market.

A category long dominated by Apple's $1,200 iMac is suddenly rife with nice-looking imitators that pack less power than traditional Windows desktops, but are also gentler on the wallet. They're a subcategory of desktop PCs called Nettops, and, like Netbooks, they're generally defined as a computing platform powered by the Atom processor that runs either Windows XP or a version of Linux. Combined with the all-in-one form factor and a smaller screen than most desktops (between 15 inches and 19 inches), they're essentially the Netbooks of the desktop category.

"A year ago I would have said Netbooks are not going to cannibalize the notebook market. Then the economy went kablooey," said John Jacobs, director of notebook market research for DisplaySearch. Since then, many people who needed a notebook have chosen to spend $400 on a Netbook instead of the typical $800 on a full-size notebook.

"I think we'll see something like that for Nettops," he said. "Either for retirees or younger folks who don't need the portability of a notebook, and just need something to get on the Internet and do basic computing. Nettops, and all-in-ones will be very attractive devices, and we expect to see a lot of retailers who have stayed out of it will jump into it."

The all-in-one category as a whole is expected to grow to more than 6 million units in 2009, and to over 7 million in 2010, according to DisplaySearch. That's almost an 80 percent spike in shipments, which was unexpected at the end of 2008.

Reinvigorating a tired category
In fact, the rise of all-in-one Nettops looks to be the most interesting thing to happen to desktop PCs in years. And, just as the economy helped bolster Netbooks' appeal, so too will it make Nettops more attractive to buyers, industry watchers believe.

"Right now, nothing is going to stem the losses in terms of shipment decline that the desktop PC category is experiencing, especially with the (current) economy," said Richard Shim, a PC analyst with IDC. "But Nettops and lower-cost all-in-ones will help to maintain some of the market share for desktops. It's a bright spot in the market."

All-in-ones grabbed the attention of PC makers more than a year ago when Dell, Gateway, and HP suddenly debuted nice-looking desktops like the Dell XPS One and the Gateway One. HP's was even more impressive with its touch-screen interface--and accompanying high price tag.

Then Asus, riding the momentum of its Eee PC Netbook brand released the Eee Top, and MSI followed up its own Netbook success with the WindTop. And Dell dropped its pricier XPS One for the Studio One 19, which did not come with an Atom processor, but did have a lower price tag. All of these machines also have a touch screen or tablet-like stylus input.

According to DisplaySearch's calculations, all-in-one Nettops can feasibly be built for $399 at the cheapest. Add in retailer margin and the price goes up, but not by much. These generally cost between $450 and $800. For a desktop, that's an attractive deal if you just need a computer that's centrally located in the living room or office for the kids to do homework, or just to surf the Web and play movies and music at home. And for those who don't want Windows Vista and need something before Windows 7, Nettops are the only desktops you can buy with Windows XP today.

Perfect for discount retailers
There's not a lot of hard data to gauge how well all-in-one Nettops are doing so far since they've barely been on the market in the U.S. (The biggest all-in-one market in the world is Japan, and several Nettops have been available there since late last year.)

When all-in-one Nettops do become more widely available here, they should get a boost from non-traditional electronics retailers, in the same way Netbooks have. Nettops are almost designed for discount retailers like Target, Wal-Mart, and Costco to love: all-in-one box, no need to stock many accessories, and the price is low. Right now Target sells the EeeTop from Asus, and Wal-Mart.com has an Averatec Nettop.

But there also should be some shelf space available for all-in-one Nettops from big electronics retailers like Best Buy that generally don't bend over backward to sell niche, low-margin products.

"Because of the economy, retailers were bearish on Netbooks, and they've changed their tune now that there is a nice healthy accessory market for them," said Jacobs. "Now there's that niche (they) need to fill, certain (price categories), and you'd rather sell something for $400 than not anything at all. The same will be true of Nettops."

Erica Ogg is a CNET News reporter who covers Apple, HP, Dell, and other PC makers, as well as the consumer electronics industry. She's also one of the hosts of CNET News' Daily Podcast. In her non-work life, she's a history geek, a loyal Dodgers fan, and a mac-and-cheese connoisseur. E-mail Erica.
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by Universal_Indie_Records April 14, 2009 5:18 AM PDT
Attractive looking computer. Probably something I'd purchase for my children.
Reply to this comment
by ckurowic April 14, 2009 7:35 AM PDT
Yes because you'd really be doing them a favor with that POS.
by El_Mikee April 14, 2009 6:28 AM PDT
This would have been great in my college years... :-(

Oh well, iŽll stick to my Gateway Desktop and my Macbook. :-)
Reply to this comment
by sting7k April 14, 2009 6:43 AM PDT
Ok, lets just stop here. Enough with the "Net____". What's next? Nethandheld? NetTV? NetGlasses? NetPhone? NetMP3 Player?

Nettop, please....
Reply to this comment
by rocketjam--2008 April 14, 2009 7:08 AM PDT
I second that motion.
by codynews April 14, 2009 7:31 AM PDT
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by sanenazok April 14, 2009 7:16 AM PDT
"Nettops are the only desktops you can buy with Windows XP today"

I don't get how someone could make this statement. I was pricing some mainstream Dell Vostro desktops and they all had XP as an option. It was only XP Pro, but that's what we were looking to buy anyways.
Reply to this comment
by BigGuns149 April 15, 2009 5:12 PM PDT
Hey, this is Cnet. They are known for making obvious mistakes like that.
by iBuzz April 14, 2009 7:31 AM PDT
If you already own a monitor, you'd get much more for your money if you bought a full desktop. My friend recently bought a new Dell (without monitor) for $399 that offered a 2.5GHz Intel processor, 3 GB RAM, and a 500 GB hard drive. It's a pretty zippy computer and I imagine it is much, much faster than these Nettops.

Although, I did have to go over and help him deal with Vista issues. After installing drivers for printers and cameras, he was getting UAC prompts from system files loading during boot-up, which froze the boot-up until he confirmed each one. What a pain! Also, it was such a pain trying to figure out how to turn off UAC messages on a program-by-program basis while leaving UAC on for the rest of the system.

Message to Microsoft: please make this easier for Windows 7 (i.e., don't make me have to download a separate program from your support site and then have to go through some pretty complicated instructions just to disable UAC for a single program)... but I digress. ;-)
Reply to this comment
by ckurowic April 14, 2009 7:35 AM PDT
Stupid idea.
Reply to this comment
by Jimm1 April 14, 2009 8:52 AM PDT
Stupid is as stupid does. Not everybody needs or WANTS the latest and greatest bleeding edge monster computer. Some (most) non-geeks just want a basic machine so they can do their taxes, balance their checkbook, read e-mail, deal with insurance companies, etc... They aren't writing C++ script, machine language, or playing "World of Warnuts".
ckurowic, there are other people out there, some have (amazingly) never taken computer classes or even dealt with a home PC. Lighten up.
by inachu1 April 14, 2009 7:41 AM PDT
Just as long as it can play WORLD OF WARCRAFT and COD4 then I'll buy an atom based pc too!
Reply to this comment
by pithenumber April 14, 2009 12:56 PM PDT
I doubt it, but nvidia claims that their ion platform can play COD4

so buy yourself a nettop! [not]
by jonathan0766 April 14, 2009 8:27 AM PDT
Nettop = eMachine cheap box concept circa late 1990s, but with a consolidated electronics profile (squeeze it all into the monitor space). This isn't a new concept, the only thing that has changed is how you're situating the hardware.
Reply to this comment
by BigGuns149 April 15, 2009 5:18 PM PDT
Actually the all in one form factor even using an LCD as opposed to an LCD is pretty old. I remember the Monorail had a AIO computer with an LCD monitor for about a $1000 in 1996 nearly two years before the first CRT iMac hit the shelves.
by dragonbite April 14, 2009 8:33 AM PDT
This would work great for me, the kids and my wife.

Currently my wife uses the laptop in one tight spot in the house. She doesn't carry it around anywhere and has no desire to. So a Nettop would work fine here due to small size, low sound and low voltage use! Plus one plug to plug in would be great.

The kids are not using the high-end 3D graphics of games yet (they're all under 9) so it looks to be powerful enough for them too at this time.

This would free up my laptop for my uses (portable) and reduce the electricity usage (even a little).

Since we are currently using Linux on all of the machines then I wouldn't have to worry about any performance hit for trying to run Windows Vista or 7 (can re-appropriate the current desktop if I really want to run them).

If it is powerful enough (and it doesn't have to be) something like this could also be used for a home server, since a server is on 24/7 most of the time the low-power Atom would help noticeably there and being a home server it may not have as heavy a load (as a corporate server) so the lower memory / speed would not be an issue.
Reply to this comment
by 128shot April 14, 2009 8:52 AM PDT
This is not a nettop

iMac is not a nettop

If you really think those are Nettops, than netbooks are notebooks.

really....
Reply to this comment
by 128shot April 14, 2009 8:55 AM PDT
In essence,

is the whole 'nettop/netbook' catagory all about sub 500 dollar product? (mostly)
Reply to this comment
by pjhenry1216 April 14, 2009 9:55 AM PDT
Not so much, as there have been a few about $500. In any case (at least with netbooks), I think it points to significant increase in battery life, low power usage, small form factor, and usually come with webcams and built in wireless. Aside from that, they usually drop a lot of features that are standard on most other notebooks. Basically, a netbook is just a notebook that has been specialized to be carried around and made to do one thing really well: surf the net.
by Bill_I April 14, 2009 9:36 AM PDT
When I plug a $10 telephone with 2 wires into Verizon, I get everything anyone could want. Call anywhere in the world, voice-mail, caller ID, etc. --- So now we get the computer version, a simple, cheap way to get online, Google something, and check the e-mails. Sure, it takes a pricey hot-box to play action games or do 3-D engineering design, but only the people who need such things need pay for them.
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by PCsRfun April 14, 2009 10:03 AM PDT
Sort of a mix of the disadvantages of a laptop mixed with almost the space requirements of a desktop. At least if you buy an inexpensive "normal" pc (which you could probably build for a similar price to these "nettops") you can choose to upgrade components later with minimal hassle. I would suspect that upgrading or adding hardware at a future date would not be very easy, if it's even possible.
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by seven7dust April 14, 2009 10:30 AM PDT
n e one reading this get a real computer not this crap !
15-17" displays in 2009 ! lol !
Reply to this comment
by pithenumber April 14, 2009 1:07 PM PDT
doesn't Apple have a 17inch iMac?

my mom would love this "crap" its cheap and it consumes little power and its fast enough for email and surfing the internet which is all she does
by seven7dust April 14, 2009 5:30 PM PDT
yes ! I know about the power part
but seriously a 15" display do they even make those anymore
your mom would be better of with a cheap nettop like the EEEbox with a 20" monitor

I personally would recommend a Mac mini though even a used model
you pay more upfront but at the end of the day
less maintetnence, less problems ! Macs are perfect for Moms and Dads !
by Mergatroid Mania April 14, 2009 10:37 AM PDT
Pretty expensive for what you get.

Just like another guy mentioned, a friend of mine just bought a complete computer with an Intel Duel Core processor, 2G of memory, 80G hard drive. Complete system except for an LCD monitor that he already owned...$400 CDN including tax.

Thise things are just toys for yuppies, and people who have absolutely no idea what they are buying.

For gods sake, don't stick your kids with a crippled computer.
Reply to this comment
by April 14, 2009 11:36 AM PDT
I agree that Nettops are an area for growth. Most people don't need 4 processors and 8 gigs of memory. I just "downgraded" to an Atom-based machine of my own making that could easily be classified as a "nettop". I took an old Sunray 1 thin client and ripped out the crappy inards and replaced them with an Intel Atom board. Now I can surf the web, do e-mail and 90% of what I used to do with my "cutting edge" tower system all for 29 watts of power. Now that's progress!

Pictures of my "Sunray 1 Reloaded" box here... http://www.flickr.com/photos/techno-weenie/sets/72157614473853875/
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by Dango517 April 14, 2009 12:11 PM PDT
Half the cost, twice the computer

The contenders:

http://reviews.cnet.com/desktops/?filter=100021_10446692_&tag=centerColumnArea1.0

Cnets best netbook (according to them):

http://reviews.cnet.com/laptops/asus-n10j-a1/4507-3121_7-33316326.html?tag=mncol;rnav

This is the only one reviewed that has a graphics chip at all (not a card, a chip).

There is only one reason to buy a laptop computer, portability. If you do not need to carry your computer buy a desk top computer.

Thomas Tusser said it best:

Thomas Tusser (1524?1580) was an English poet and farmer, best known for his instructional poem Five Hundred Points of Good Husbandry, published in 1557, and for the oft-repeated proverb, "A fool and his money are soon parted."

(source wikipedia)
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by halicem April 14, 2009 5:54 PM PDT
anyone panning this is obviously not the target of this nifty little product.

its designed for those who don't need all the juice of a full system. at least that's the marketing ptich.

but on the other side, people who know what their doing are lapping this up, precisely because its underpowered. it makes it a great little 24/7 machine.

consider this: a typical desktop would run around 100w-150w on the cpu alone. nettops on the other hand consume only about 30. thats big savings. not to mention it generates less heat and therefore less cooling costs.

now then, why a 24/7 machine? simple, for a lot of reasons: print server.. file server.. media server.. etc. its a great little box that can do all that. or have it the expensive way, buy a wifi capable printer.. buy an hp media server.. or a drobo.. all of them together would btw, aside from costing an arm and a leg, run up more electricity than a nettop.

so yes, aside from grannies, there are actually people who make excellent use of this product.
Reply to this comment
by 3rdalbum April 15, 2009 12:07 AM PDT
People are already having difficulty understanding that desktops are much more powerful than notebooks - they want the portability no matter how slow the computer will be.

How on earth are you going to convince people to buy these nettops? They are nearly as slow as a netbook but almost as big as a desktop. Who wants that?

I'm looking to build a similar sort of machine to use as a power-efficient home server, but that's more like a "netserver" than a low-power desktop.
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by BigGuns149 April 15, 2009 5:26 PM PDT
I agree. These products in a lot of ways are looking to serve a niche that very few people are looking to fill. LCD displays have became so cheap that eliminating the screen isn't going to make these nettops much cheaper, but a netbook would be much more versatile in that you can move it around easier.

I definitely would love to see a inexpensive, small, and easy to configure home server. For a simple data server you don't need a high end CPU. You could easily have something like that hiding in a cabinet with a small hole in the back that connects to power and a Cat6 network cable. I know a lot of people who would buy a preconfigured home server.
by donovan1983 April 15, 2009 2:22 PM PDT
If you don't think that these machines are very useful you simply aren't the target market for them. I am not terribly interested in these all-in-one nettops myself, but a nettop without a display interests me. There is at least one builder that is offering a dual-core Atom chip in one and expects the total system power draw to be in the 30 to 40W range. I'd like one as a companion to my netbook when I need something with a little more power for things like video encoding and games, as well as for a server.

The fact that I could leave it on all the time without feeling guilty for the power draw is a big deal to me, too. Just a few years ago my desktop required a 450W power supply and needed pretty much all it could provide, and leaving that thing on caused a big jump in the electric bill. When I got my iBook G4 almost 4 years ago I was amazed by how little power it drew, and the Acer Aspire One 10" I have now has even lower power draw and even better battery life yet is faster. That's a true leap forward to me.

I really hope netbooks continue to skyrocket in sales and that nettops take a good chunk of the desktop market. More efficient computing is here and the savings in upfront costs and lower electric costs, especially in large corporate offices, is a very good thing. Computers reached a point where they were powerful enough for most tasks the average user needed about 5 years ago and finally we have a reverse in the trend of bigger, faster, and hungrier. It's not so much our reliance on "the cloud", it's more that word processing, personal finance software, and music playback software just doesn't need all that much computing power.
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by BigGuns149 April 15, 2009 5:30 PM PDT
Especially with electricity becoming more and more expensive in recent years and the trend likely to continue I really like the idea of a very low power consumption desktop. A dual core Atom has quite a bit more processing power, but is still incredibly efficient compared to a lot of traditional desktops.

I don't think that nettops will be as successful as netbooks only insofar as that a lot of people like the idea of portability even if they rather take advantage of the portability.
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