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March 27, 2009 12:27 PM PDT

The $999 PC that out-gunned the Mac Pro

by Rich Brown

< /inflammatory headline>

The Velocity Micro Edge Z5

(Credit: Sarah Tew/CNET)

We'd already acquired the Velocity Micro Edge Z5 for review purposes prior to the release of Apple's updated Mac Pro desktops, but it sure made a handy comparison even before we finished writing it up. The Edge Z5 is the desktop we used earlier this week to show that while the Mac Pro is a great digital content creation tool, and even a decent gaming system, its relative value as a gaming box falls flat compared with the stalwarts of the PC gaming world. After giving the Edge Z5 the full review treatment, we've also determined that it's a gaming star among its Windows-based peers.

You can read the full review of the Velocity Micro Edge Z5 here. The short version is that it's the fastest gaming desktop we've seen for less than $1,000. Interestingly, despite the Edge Z5's overclocked Core 2 Quad Q9400 CPU, it's application test scores fell behind a $999 system from Dell with a Core i7 CPU on some cases. Even with overclocking that's perhaps to be expected given the Dell's more up-to-date Intel chip, but Velocity Micro also lists the Edge Z5 explicitly as a gaming box on its Web site. For that task the Edge Z5 is the clear winner.

Read our review of the Velocity Micro Edge Z5.

Rich Brown reviews desktops and various other components and peripherals for CNET. E-mail Rich.
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by GibsonSG March 27, 2009 2:00 PM PDT
Who cares? I don't want to play any silly games anyways! I'll just toodle around on my Mac and be miserable forever and have no enjoyment in my life! Now if you'll excuse me, I've got poorly shot home videos to compile. LONG LIVE APPLE STEVE JOBS IS GOD! (sent from my iPhone)
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by tipoo_ March 27, 2009 2:26 PM PDT
The post so great you posted it twice, eh?
by GibsonSG March 27, 2009 2:53 PM PDT
It was an accident, sorry. My iPhone kept telling me "no no it didn't go thru!" I kept saying "yes yes!", but in the end I of course conceded to my iPhone, as it is the bringer and knower of all that is true (sent from my iPhone)
by BlitzBoy1120 March 27, 2009 3:15 PM PDT
jeez i think that poisoned apple you ate gave you brain damage. ha apple
by seven7dust March 29, 2009 2:57 AM PDT
Mr Ballmer is that you ?
by GibsonSG March 27, 2009 2:02 PM PDT
Who cares? I don't want to play any silly games anyways! I'll just toodle around on my Mac and be miserable forever and have no enjoyment in my life! Now if you'll excuse me, I've got poorly shot home videos to compile. LONG LIVE APPLE STEVE JOBS IS GOD! (sent from my iPhone)
Reply to this comment
by seven7dust March 29, 2009 3:01 AM PDT
atleast Apple has the common sense to not refer to it's user base as macs
and gives them more respect !
hey I'm sorry to say but according to Microsoft yr just a PC{tool}
enjoy you harassment -:)
by ikramerica--2008 March 27, 2009 4:02 PM PDT
wow, a machine built specifically for gaming beats all comers at... GAMING. Wow. You know, most consoles kick butt at gaming too. That proves there is no need for another computer besides a PS3 I guess.

Of course, the obvious question is: who is velocity micro, how do I get the computer, how do I get it repaired, how long will it's overclocked parts last, and how much will it be worth in trade when I want a new one? Sure, nobody wants to ask those niggling questions, but they are valid.

They seem like a good company. But let's look at their support site. If you have a problem, well, figure out who to call:
"This page is a listing of the various manufacturers whose products are used in Velocity Micro systems. Contacting the manufacturer of a specific product might provide you with more specific and detailed help than a technical service call. Additionally, you can find detailed product information and software updates. Technical information is usually located in a website's "Products" or "Support" area."

In other words, unlike that silly Mapple, or Dell or HP or whatever, when you can't get stuff to work anymore, well, VMs people can only help so much. You really need to talk to the companies that make each part, and hope they don't blame it on the "other guy."

I'm sure VM makes good systems. I'm just not sure they are right for everybody. :)
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by polis12 March 27, 2009 11:50 PM PDT
If you do not know who Velocity Micro is, then you do not know enough about computers or the computer market to be posting a comment here. Thanks for the insightful, deep, and meaningful comments though - we appreciate your ignorance.
by zgreenwell March 30, 2009 8:26 AM PDT
Normally you don't trade computers in for a new one. You can always upgrade it one piece at a time and sell your old parts. How much they'll be worth is defendant on which parts and how quickly you plan to sell them.
by renGek March 30, 2009 10:45 AM PDT
Thats like getting on a soap box in the middle of time square and saying "whats a lexus?" and then wonder why everyone looks at you crazy.
by Lerianis3 March 30, 2009 7:08 PM PDT
The point is that this machine that costs less than 1/2 what a MacBook Pro costs beat it on all levels....... that makes the MacBook a PoC, in my opinion. There is just NO reason to get an Apple computer today, unless you are stupid, braindead, and want to pay twice as much for hardware that is near obsolete.
by mikeschwartz420 April 21, 2009 1:23 PM PDT
I worked for a startup that bought a dozen Velocity Micro machines... they were **horrible**. Many of the machines had multiple hard drive failures and RAID CARD FAILURES. No joke. I would never buy a Velocity Micro machine, and to compare it to a Mac Pro, well, that's just asinine.
by streamline35 March 27, 2009 4:55 PM PDT
Cnet - you guys do realize that there is a blue ray option, right? The 1st optical drive isn't selectable, but you have the option for a blue ray drive in the second drive bay.
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by Constable Odo March 27, 2009 6:00 PM PDT
It's probably a very nice gaming computer, but I'd rather own a MacPro because I believe it will last longer running 24/7 and be better at multiple tasks. I'd be running both OSX and Windows XP or Windows 7 in VMWare Fusion. Now I prefer computers that you just put in a corner somewhere and they just run and run and you never have to attend to them. I can automate all the backups or disk clones I need.

I'm not really interested in playing games, so the gaming machine wouldn't be for me. I'm sure it would be useful for other tasks and if I could downclock it then I'm sure it would last longer.
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by 1363nd0f1337 March 28, 2009 3:55 PM PDT
Proper cooling will also help to ensure the longevity of the parts in a system with overclocked parts.
by pithenumber March 30, 2009 1:18 PM PDT
down clocking is out of the question for budget high performance

and its a gaming pc, the next few generations of games will prolly outdate it before it has time to break
by MrMurder March 28, 2009 6:43 AM PDT
Macs are good, but they're expensive. I'd rather buy a Dell PC.
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by Lerianis3 March 30, 2009 7:10 PM PDT
I have to agree. Gateway has a good gaming/business desktop that is only 2000 dollars (a drop in the bucket for everything that was included, less than HALF of what the parts in it would cost if I bought them and built the computer msyelf) and a good laptop gaming computer for 1200 dollars, that the stuff in it should cost about 700 dollars more than the computer costs.
by rmbgi March 28, 2009 8:24 AM PDT
Wow.. After the update there is no Nehlam based Xeons on PCs yet. Only right now Apple is selling them. Where is the question of comparisons with i7 Nehalem with i7 Xeon server chip
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by Notoapplefanbois March 29, 2009 8:33 AM PDT
Thats because the nehalem xeons aren't out yet. And Apple aren't shipping them yet because of this.
by pithenumber March 30, 2009 1:20 PM PDT
there are nehalem Xeon Pc's
They aren't in the consumer lineup though
by gary85739 March 28, 2009 11:02 AM PDT
A thousand $ PC vs a much more expensive MacPro...

do the math, if OSX is worth the premium, go for it,,,

the rest of us will take the thousand $ PC and use it for about 5yrs...

btw, ever heard of Linux? I hear it works on them PC's to make em FLY!
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by zgreenwell March 30, 2009 8:28 AM PDT
Linux is worse for gaming than Mac. Since this is a gaming PC, I don't see why you would buy it to just run Linux.
by Dalmatian28 March 28, 2009 11:12 AM PDT
This is NOT a news on any way. You take hype away from macs and what you are left with is one outdated low performance over-polished computer. You can build overclocked i7 that will cost you somewhere between $700 and $800 and will still beat Mac Pro in performance easily. Again...it all comes down to hype! If they had bigger share of the market you would see how truly safe they are. It is easy to be safe if nobody is attacking you! All the hackers rather target OS with 90 % of the market share than one with below 8 %. I just hope those that spend $4K for the Mac Pro can generate a good excuse for themselves, because $4K in this economy.... that hurts! It is OK ...uncle Steve will sand thank you note to all of you that made him billionaire! If you are lucky, next time he might ask you to bend-over and that way earn your next Mac Pro! Just a suggestion to save you $4K!
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by Notoapplefanbois March 29, 2009 8:35 AM PDT
if you can build an i7 for $800 then show me, the mobo and cpu cost $500 alone, add in ram, gpu, psu, case, optical drive and hard drive and your on your way to $1000
by rhbrown March 30, 2009 9:01 AM PDT
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?oc=dxcwzy1&c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&kc=productdetails~desktop-studioxps-435mt
by TechSlap March 30, 2009 9:21 AM PDT
True, as much as I like macs Dalmatian28 makes a good point on the "safe" issue. The man who hacked the mac (quite easily he might add) can be found here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/pwn2own-mac-hack,2254-6.html. Macs are less secure but also have a smaller threat level, thus there safer because of such a small threat level. Look at the question: "Alan: So, if you had to make a recommendation, Mac, PC, or Linux? Or do you find them to be equally (in)secure?" The answer is right there... And don't say, oh just based off of ones persons opinion because you know thats bull. This man is an educated professional who specializes in this stuff. Have fun!
by rrsounds@aol.com March 28, 2009 12:22 PM PDT
"It is easy to be safe if nobody is attacking you! "

BINGO! Give that man a cigar!
Some of us would rather be using a computer that nobody is attacking. It's totally irrelevant WHY it's safe!!

"outdated low performance"
Which company is the only one with the new Intel chips? Uh, er....
Reply to this comment
by nihouma March 28, 2009 1:38 PM PDT
Actually, Apple, like Linux, is free from viruses because of the root access they give to malware. Windows is the perfect breeding place for viruses, as one doesn't need root access to alter sensitive system files. People actually do write viruses for both Linux and Macs, you just don't realize it because of how Linux and Apple are designed to deal with this. First, you don't magically always have root access. Second, things don't magically just execute. Thirdly, because of the way the OSs work, they don't spread as easily. I don't know how true this is for Apple, but from what I've read, it is how it works on Linux
by Notoapplefanbois March 29, 2009 8:41 AM PDT
Intel chips which AREN'T out yet?

also the mac pro will just get owned when the 6-core P2 based Opteron's come out, now, what's 6x8 again? ooh 48 cores eh? add hyperthreading and that goes up to 96 logical cores, all running at 2.8ghz vs the 16 logical at 2.66ghz of the Nehalem Pro. add 512gb of ddr3 ram since this is a server board then add a nice powerful 5870 X2 and I think your Nehalem Pro will have lost the battle, both as a workstation and gaming PC.
by pithenumber March 30, 2009 1:26 PM PDT
@notoapplefanbois
uhhh, Opty's don't have hyperthreading
by mlcgruhlke March 28, 2009 4:38 PM PDT
I have used Mac OSX, Windows XP, Vista, Ubuntu Linux, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS and a host of other Linux desktops. For pure performance, XP beats them all. For security, Ubuntu and other Linux distro's are up to the task. For fun, well there's OSX.....which to me, is way over priced for what it offers. Apple's over priced hardware computers coupled with an average OS doesn't excite me at all. This is not a vote for Windows, Apple or Linux, but if I had to, it would be Windows XP Professional hands down any time, any where. Let's go Apple fans, my PC can best your platform at all levels without having to get a bail out to buy one.
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by Notoapplefanbois March 29, 2009 8:43 AM PDT
What spec'd pc's have you been using? Higher spec'd pc's seem to do better in vista 64 than XP.
by mlcgruhlke March 28, 2009 4:40 PM PDT
I have used Mac OSX, Windows XP, Vista, Ubuntu Linux, Mandriva, PCLinuxOS and a host of other Linux desktops. For pure performance, XP beats them all. For security, Ubuntu and other Linux distro's are up to the task. For fun, well there's OSX.....which to me, is way over priced for what it offers. Apple's over priced hardware computers coupled with an average OS doesn't excite me at all. This is not a vote for Windows, Apple or Linux, but if I had to, it would be Windows XP Professional hands down any time, any where. Let's go Apple fans, my PC can best your platform at all levels without having to get a bail out to buy one. Everyone mentions viruses but that's because most people own Windows OS' so they virus is written for them....HOWEVER, Windows users can best this by signing in as a user rather than administrator everytime they are on the machine, something Mac's and Linux distro's default to.
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by davrosthedalek March 28, 2009 7:26 PM PDT
I like games and building my own computers, plus my business software will not run on OSX. Macs are overpriced. $9,100 for 16gb of ram. Good joke.
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by Notoapplefanbois March 29, 2009 8:44 AM PDT
Well you'd think that until you look at high spec ECC ram pricing.
by davrosthedalek May 10, 2009 6:35 AM PDT
My desktop is faster than any Apple computer even if it is 3 times the price.
by Sam5271 March 28, 2009 9:16 PM PDT
I so much hate Apple fan boys.... they're just boys with toys.... Damn, they ruin every freaking story and blog... to hell with Apple and Jobs.... I only respect their ipods and their iPhone... At PC business they are not up to bar... overprices, monopolized, stripped down, nice looking toys ... that is what they are good at...
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by MacHeads March 28, 2009 9:45 PM PDT
funny i can't really find a PC including at least these ...

Two Quad-Core intel Xeon at 2.93ghz with Hyperthreading 8MB of level3 cache
16 GB of ram DDR 3 1066 Mhz
640 GB hard drive( this is a bonus item to me , i have plenty of 1.5 TBs to go around).
Quad-Channel 4GB Fibre Channel Pcie Card
Two Superdrives.

Work applications include Aperture , CS3, Maya and a few others. Mostly everything is runs at the same time so STABILITY is a REQUIRED thing.

Any ideas welcome as to which machine gets the same characteristics would be most welcome.
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by streamline35 March 28, 2009 11:50 PM PDT
And your grand total comes to $7500. Have fun with that. (and that's without even putting in a decent video card)

BTW, how is a 640gb drive plus two dvd drives anything to brag about?
by Notoapplefanbois March 29, 2009 8:51 AM PDT
Actually it's called a custom, you start with a dual 1366 mobo, add three samsung 32gb 1333mhz ram sticks, then get a couple i7 920's and oc to 4.5ghz with seperate water cooling systems. Next you'll want a couple of 512GB OCZ summit ssd's in raid then add a couple of bluray writers and add one of those cards. Then hook up the water cooled ram heatsinks to the ram and oc to 1800mhz. Then add a nice 4870 X2.

All that would cost about $6-7000, so why would I buy a mac for $500 more than a PC which would completely own it?
by ScaryMonkey69 March 30, 2009 4:41 AM PDT
Funny, my quad core 3 Ghz PC with 16GB RAM runs those same apps (except Aperture) with no problem either. For under $800
by Jefferson101 March 30, 2009 8:30 AM PDT
For Graphic Design, nothing comes close to the Mac Pro. I have one of the original Mac Pro's with the 2.66 Woodcrest Xenons in it and have been please for 3 years now. No crashes, not a hint of a virus. Easy and fast operation that can truly out task any windows PC. I wont have to upgrade for another 4 years with this thing. Thats 7 years + of value. I have not seen a Windows PC stand that test of time without reloading windows and getting blue screens. I have room for 16 gigs of ram and up to 4 hard drives in a case that can be easily opened in 2 seconds. Did I mention it has 4 PCI Express slots.
by douggdangger March 30, 2009 12:14 PM PDT
What's a Mac?

Mac and cheese?
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by kaipaniolo March 30, 2009 5:14 PM PDT
I have a really good Dell XPS gaming machine with 4G of Ram, but if I open 3 MS Office apps and one of them is Outlook, this "Gaming Machine" is brought to it's knees. That's real world, oh your games ARE your real world. Just switched to Mac last week, I got more done in the first day, with no waiting for the machine to catch up. OK, back to writing big orders so I can order another Mac.
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by Lerianis3 March 30, 2009 7:12 PM PDT
Excuse me, but I don't think so. If you are really having that problem with opening 3 MS Office Apps, especially Outlook, and your computer is bogging down......... there is something wrong with your installation of Microsoft Office and Outlook.
by shycelticwitch April 1, 2009 10:56 AM PDT
I so much hate Apple fan boys.... they're just boys with toys.... Damn, they ruin every freaking story and blog... to hell with Apple and Jobs.... I only respect their ipods and their iPhone... At PC business they are not up to bar... overprices, monopolized, stripped down, nice looking toys ... that is what they are good at...


awwwwww is somebody having a bad PC day? I am laughing so hard at this comment I can't see through the tears. Suck it up dude, Mac just WORK. That's what they are good at. What they are NOT good at is crashing, freezing, asking you if you're stupid every time you ask it to do something, and being a piece of swiss cheese for hackers to play with.

I was on my daughter's Dell laptop last weekend. Every time I wanted to install something or change something it asked me if I was "sure" I wanted to do that. What use would I have for a computer that can't protect itself... and then calls ME stupid?... NONE. Keep it. It will make a nice paperweight some day while my Mac is still surfing the web and doing high end graphics.

Still laughing.
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by Macs R We April 2, 2009 1:59 PM PDT
Next week, Rich pits a sundial against a Rolex to compare their carbon footprints. Surprise, surprise: Rolexes suck!
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by CandidCam October 17, 2009 7:50 AM PDT
VM is one of the best PC brands in America. The've been around for years - get your head out of your cheeks.
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