How much would you pay for a DVR?

(Credit: Digeo)

Recently, Digeo began selling its new Moxi CableCard DVR at Amazon for a whopping $800. That got us thinking about the whole DVR category, and how the real prices of the products are often hidden with subsidies (from cable or satellite companies) or service fees (such as with TiVo).

If you're looking for a digital video recorder, your choices are limited by how you receive your TV signal--satellite, over-the-air antenna, or cable--and how much you're willing to pay a month. Satellite subscribers are shoehorned by their provider--Dish offers the excellent ViP722 (with the SlingLoaded ViP922 due later this year), and DirecTV offers the DirecTV Plus HD DVR HR21. Antenna-only folks were the most limited: previously, the only choice was TiVo (which, again, requires a monthly or lifetime fee for service), but the availability of the DTV Pal DVR offers the promise of a no-fee DVR with support for digital and HD TV signals--just pay for the hardware, and you're done. (CNET is currently evaluating the DTV Pal DVR, and will have a review later this month.)

For cable subscribers, things can be a bit more varied--and almost certainly more expensive. Nearly all cable companies now offer their subscribers an HD DVR option. They'll tout it as "free" (in that you don't have to buy the hardware), but your bill will undoubtedly include a rental charge for the hardware (and the remote!), as well as a "DVR service fee." Want to get a real TiVo instead? That may cut the rental charge and DVR service fee from your monthly cable bill, but then you're stuck paying a service fee straight to TiVo ($13 a month, $129 a year, or a flat $400 fee for the lifetime of the box). Meanwhile, your cable company still gets in on the action; they may still charge you for CableCard rental fees (needed for the TiVo to receive digital and premium channels), plus the normal service fee on top of that (the channel charges that make up the bulk of your bill). Going with the lifetime fee (just because it's easy), that brings the real-world cost of the cheapest high-def TiVo, the TiVo HD, to around $700.

Enter the Digeo Moxi. The only post-TiVo CableCard HD DVR we've seen to date eschews monthly service fees (to Digeo, anyway) and instead is available for a one-time purchase price--of $800. (The Moxi's 500GB hard drive is more than 3 times larger than that of the TiVo HD's 160GB storage; both are expandable with external eSATA drives.) Except for a handful of extras, though--such as online remote scheduling and the ability to stream music and photos from a networked PC to your TV--the Moxi isn't offering a lot more than what you'd get from your rented cable company DVR. Compare that with TiVo: TiVo is still extremely expensive, but it delivers a growing number of network-friendly features, such as the ability to access Netflix and Amazon streaming video, Rhapsody's premium online music service, podcasts, and Internet radio--in addition to the Moxi-style online scheduling and music/photo streaming.

Meanwhile, TiVo and Moxi both suffer from the limitations of their CableCard architecture. The products can't access video-on-demand features available to standard cable boxes (a shortcoming that TiVo's ample online features somewhat ameliorates) and they may need an external adapter box if your cable system utilizes switched-digital video (SDV) technology.

I didn't get to see the Moxi demo at January's Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, but the DVR's UI got high marks from those who did. The prospect of multiroom extenders and the addition of DLNA support (better PC-to-TV media streaming) would certainly help raise the Moxi's value proposition. If my current rental DVR (a Scientific Atlanta 8300HD provided by Time Warner) costs me $15 a month, I'd have to hold onto the Moxi for more than 4 years to make the investment worthwhile. (For the TiVo, it'd be just under 4 years.) Meanwhile, if my Scientific Atlanta craps out, I need only drop by Time Warner's service center to exchange the DVR free of charge. For instance: to get in on the company's new "Start Over" service--which lets you automatically rewind certain broadcasts to their starting point while channel surfing--I need new hardware, which I can upgrade to at no cost. That service won't be available on TiVo or Moxi boxes.

Yes, I understand the idea of paying a premium for a better interface, and we really liked the earlier prototype of the Moxi we saw in the summer of 2007. But $800 is a lot of money. So, unless Moxi brings the price way down--say, $399--or adds a boatload of more features, I don't see myself trading in my current rental DVR.

How about you: Would you pay a premium for a TiVo or Moxi DVR? Or are you happy to pay $10 to $15 a month for a rental that's "good enough?"

[yanchineseguy]

Charging $800 for a DVR? Now that's moxie.

[Tinman52]

Haha. Yeah, the up front cost is killer for a business when compared to other services that spread the charge out over time. If you want to see every service broken down and offered a la carte, go to DirectTV's website. You may get some additional HDTV channels, but you end up signing contracts and getting nickle and dimed for a lot of services that Comcast bundles together.

In any event, the payments over time, with the additional services and ability to swap out broken hardware is better than the one time cost at the moment.

[SpaceDude2001]

Just take a older PC with Windows XP Media Center add two ATSC-based TV Tuner cards or usb sticks with one video the has DVI (with DVI to HDMI adapter), and you have instant cheap, recycled, and good DVR. or Add BeyondTV or MythTV instead of Media Center. You're welcome...

[thisislovell]

And you're going to watch digital and premium channels how?

[ajalogan]

They actually had another article a few months ago that asked the reader to evaluate whether they were using what they were paying for in their cable/satelite bill. Me and my wife examined it decided that we would be giving up maybe 5 shows to save around 100 bucks. We got a Vista Media Center PC and I added a Hauppauge 2250 tuner card which allows me to record two HD shows at the same time and we are set. We still get the most basic cable package (OTA wasn't very dependable) and get all our favorite shows from the big networks in HD thru QAM support. And a few of the shows on cable, we stream on the internet. It's not for everybody but it sure is working for us. Media Center as a UI is pretty nice by the way. And it's open source so people have developed programs to cut out commercials, add netflix support, weather, etc, etc. You might wanna check it out.

[McCormick97]

Thisislovell, you misunderstood the article. This DVR doesn't include the channels - even with the $800 box you still need to pay your cable or satellite company to receive the channels. The $800 payment means you don't pay monthly fees for the DVR capability itself.

[SeizeCTRL]

MthyTV FTW! I love my MythTV box. You can't beat it! Anyone who pays $800 for this is either retarded or has way too much money!

[echuffman]

I can't agree more SpaceDude2001. More people need to research/realize the power of their desktops & laptops.

"How about you: Would you pay a premium for a TiVo or Moxi DVR? Or are you happy to pay $10 to $15 a month for a rental that's "good enough?""

I also have the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD that is provided by Time Warner and probably will never switch to another DVR unless prices come way down. I've been tempted by Tivo on several occasions, but that big service fee, and the anticipated hassle of hooking it up always keep me with the "standard" box. (the flat fee that only works on a single box is no better)

Weakening my interest in alternative DVRs is access to other media sources such as the Internet and Netflix streaming over my Xbox 360, as well as Netflix DVDs. That's a lot of available content that reduces my focus on cable programming however it's packaged. Consequently, I don't find the marginal added utility of a Tivo DVR, for example, to be worth the expenditure.

[missapple27]

My TiVo has cost me more than $800 already. I bought it for $300, paid another $300 for 3 years of service, then added wireless networking for about another $100. After the one-year warranty was up, my TiVo died and I had to replace it through TiVo for another $161 which got me a refurbished TiVo plus all the shipping.

If I were to buy an $800 DVR, what happens if it dies after a year?

[Sdtrent]

Tivo Extremely expensive? Even the TiVo HD XL DVR which at $600 is cheaper than the Dieago Moxi by $200 and at 1 Gig has TWICE the storage. Oh, and the Tivo HD XL is THX Certified for any audiophiles out there. Also, there was also no mention about Switched Digital Video converters that are in-testing to allow Tivo access to the switched channels.

Anyone who has used a Tivo for a month or two and a Cable Co DVR for the same amount of time will tell you the Tivo interface is Vastly superior. It's like an iPhone compared to a Pocket PC, kind of close on paper but the user experience is so much better on iPhone. I have a hard time believing anyone who used the Tivo for a month would ever tell you they liked the Cable Co- Satellite DVR more.

Also no mention of the Tivo Desktop that lets me copy programs to my PC to watch later, watch on my laptop (while walking on the treadmill) or (more often in my case) copy to my iPod touch for my kids to watch when all else fails. Does ANY other shipping DVR allow you to copy programs to and from your computer over a wireless network? In HD? FYI, I got my Wifi adapter at TigerDirect for $15, a refurbished Netgear USB wifi adapter. A google search will show you which Netgear modules work with the Tivo.

And I did not see a mention that DirecTV will be adding HD Tivo's to there service in 2009. Or that Tivo has prevailed in recent court battles that may impact the ability of other DVR vendors to provide Tivo style features. This may or may not come to pass, you never know what will happen in the courts.

I installed a Series 3 about 18 months a go, have two UHF antennas installed to allow me to get stations that are +90 degrees apart. I upgraded the drive to 1 Gig (132hrs of HD) and still find myself deleting things to make room. With no cable and no satellite the Tivo long ago paid back the purchase price and monthly fee. In 18mos have spend $50 or so buying shows from Amazon Unbox for a couple of USA Network shows that I like to watch.

And you can order network programs from Amazon via your iPhone as well as schedule programs to record without even being home. Nice when I realize a big game is coming on that I forgot to program.

Tivo rocks.

[tylercramer73]

I agree that Tivo is the superior dvr available today. And just so everyone knows, the new XL has 1 TB, not 1 GB as mistyped above. :)

[WARP718]

Sdrent notes the outlay price of TIVO is WAY cheaper... but, doesn't mention the fees charged as opposed to Moxies' buy it and that's all philosophy-no fees. How can he make a claim TIVO IS BETTER WHEN THE MOXIE HAS NOT HAD IT'S REVIEW YET?.. (I doubt he Sdrent used it himself yet)

Sdrent does not mention the exorbitant fees, and hassle connecting, of TIVO (makes you wonder if this reviewer is a plant)
Yeah Kudos to THX, programming on the go, etc. but sh#t your over $1000.00 with Top o' line TIVO and subscription, (lifetime) plus, the cable card BS and rental fees the providers charge-if they'll give you a card. My favorite is: "we are out of stock"- (cause they want you to buy their products).I have had cable DVR, TIvo, and good ole' DVD recording.

No matter which way you slice it, it's TOO MUCH MONEY NOW for any of the systems available-they got ya' coming or going. In this economic climate, the manufacturers need to re-evaluate their pricing-or you'll be stuck with a box with no support someday...

[tbcass]

TIVO may be superior to Cable DVR but for me the huge difference in cost isn't worth it.

[grtgrfx]

Who has had a hassle connecting a TiVo to their TV receivers? I don't know anyone who had any trouble at all, and I certainly haven't had any problem connecting any of MY TiVos. Don't blow up a non-existent problem into an argument against TiVo. You may not like toe fees, but the interface speaks for itself. And installation is easier than installing your cable box itself.

[cruz78]

I will soon be building a new PC and would like to know if there is any way to reate one that will record like a DVR (on the hard drive)for my television entertainment? Scheduling is not a big issue, real time would be fine, just was curious as to how I may intergrate this addition in my new computer.

[superswiss]

Sure you can. It's called Windows Media Center and ships as part of Vista Home Premium and Vista Ultimate. If you want digital and premium HDTV you have to buy an OEM Media Center PC from the likes of S1digital, Velocity Micro, HP, Niveus and others. Dell unfortunately no longer sells a Digital Cable ready Media Center PC. The Dell XPS 420 was an excellent product. Like the Moxi and the Tivo HD, Digital Cable ready Media Center PCs use a tuner that accepts a CableCard in order to unscramble the encrypted channels.

To take it a step further, you keep the PC away in your office or closet and use Windows Media Center Extenders to extend the media center experience to all your TVs in the house. You can then watch live TV, recordings, schedule recordings from anywhere in your house and it will all get recorded centrally on your Media Center PC and then streamed to your extenders over your wired or wireless home network.

[MrHapyman]

Windows Media Center and an internal or external HD TV receiver is all you need. I use the Pinnacle Systems PCTV HD Ultimate Stick and Windows Media Center. The Ultimate Stick comes with its own excellent programming software and you can use it on different computers to watch and record shows since it is USB. But I use Windows Media Center, way more cool. Once you network your PCs, laptops and TV which I have, you can view the recorded program from your TV or any of the PCs. Windows Media Center will also let you record or save the show on any media, be it DVD, Flash Drive or some other media. I actually emailed a couple of broadcast new clips I recorded to a friend in Africa.

I bought my Pinnacle Systems PCTV HD Ultimate Stick from Best Buy for about $70 - it was on sale.

[Scott231]

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=940972 - Careful, it is addicting reading.

[Rod Roddy]

Comcast eventually crushes these companies, and makes them scream uncle! I agree, the price needs to drop like way down for anyone to even notice.

[zysmith]

I purchased a HDD Panasonic DVR several years ago. It has TV guide and holds up to 200 hours of content. Best of all, it cost around $300 bucks. Since then, the HDD DVR market has been dominated by TIVO and cable/satellite DVR's

By the time it dies, I hope that Panasonic or other vendors once again make the DVR's available. I pay enough to the Cable company as it is.

[MrHapyman]

Windows Media Center and an internal or external HD TV receiver is all you need. I use the Pinnacle Systems PCTV HD Ultimate Stick and Windows Media Center. The Ultimate Stick comes with its own excellent programming software and you can use it on different computers to watch and record shows since it is USB. But I use Windows Media Center, way more cool. Once you network your PCs, laptops and TV which I have, you can view the recorded program from your TV or any of the PCs. Windows Media Center will also let you record or save the show on any media, be it DVD, Flash Drive or some other media. I actually emailed a couple of broadcast new clips I recorded to a friend in Africa.

I bought my Pinnacle Systems PCTV HD Ultimate Stick from Best Buy for about $70 - it was on sale.

[McCormick97]

There is no reason to spend $800 on a DVR.

You can build a dedicated PC (decent graphics card, dual TV tuners, 500GB+ HD etc) with a media case for about $450. A bit more if you want a case that comes with a remote to use with it (including to power it on). Buying Vista Premium is the easiest way to get DVR set-up, but XP + Snapstream may be a little cheaper. The best and cheapest way, however, is to go with Ubuntu and get XBMC.

If you don't want to build yourself from scratch, you can get adequate PCs with Vista Home Premium installed for under $400 (just need to add tuners plus a decent graphics card - $150 max).

If you have an old desktop, and want to save more money, add a couple of tuner cards for $100.

[checodaman]

And of course all of these computers do computer stuff, like gaming on your TV, browsing...while the DVR above just kinda sits there and makes you wonder why you just spent $800 for no good reason other than pure stupidity.

[brebuch1]

Wow, I didn't realize how spoiled my family was... we have Dish Network and the ViP622. True to it's great reviews, it's easy for everyone to use, and the only hidden costs seems to be the initial 18 month contract I signed but that isn't unusual for any subsidized equipment. It has a USB port to expand storage with an extra harddrive (don't use it), and you can connect the Slingbox to view your DVR and channels from an Internet connection (again, we don't travel enough to justify the purchase). If anything, it makes me think twice about ditching Dish Network for a competitor because the DVR is awesome and doesn't add any additional cost to my service.

[iplay-iam]

I have paid a premium for TiVo and here's why. First, I have experience with DVRs from Comcast, Time Warner and DirectTV in addition to TiVo. TiVo is better than the DVRs from Comcast, TW and DirectTV. TiVo is even better than the Comcast DVR with Tivo software. TiVo works smoothly, is just fast enough, and has never frozen or had unacceptable lag like the other three DVRs tend to do at least once a month, average. So the ease of use and lack of frustration is why I pay a premium. Second, the VOD sources on TiVo (Amazon, Netflix, Disney) are cheaper per movie than the On Demand from my cable provider Comcast. Third, Comcast and Time Warner provide DVRs that do not network - I think they could, but the feature is turned off. Along the same lines, the cable DVRs, last I knew, don't allow external hard drive expansion - again, I think they could, but the feature is inactivated. Even the USB port on my last Comcast DVR wasn't active. This brings me to the third reason why TiVo gets my money: TiVo provides customers with new and better features, while cable companies are content to offer buggy software, slow hardware, and inactive features as long as you pay them for it.

[flerchin]

I had a tivo in one room, and a comcast hd dvr in the other for a while. I stopped paying for both when I realized that hulu and the rest of the internet tv options are good enough. I just connect the s-video out on my laptop to my tv, and boom, good to go.

The comcast dvr was good enough, and if i hadn't already paid for my tivo box, I wouldn't have one.

[hunkyhubby]

Is any help out there for the new programming dilemma on Directv HD-DVR ? I program my 8 oclock show and then two shows at 9. Now the Networks 8 oclock hour goes to 9:01 so I cannot program two start at 9 o'clock shows, since the max at any one time is 2, but to the DVR there would be 3!
DVR lets me adjust the start time ahead, not back, and the end time back, not ahead (when the commercials are, I guess) so that is also no help. I miss being able to program by time, my time, so...any ideas?

[Samhri]

Rental from Verizon works for me. I've had dvr's for about 5 years and have had at least 3 or 4 replaces. Glad I didn't buy.
Only wish the Hard Disk was bigger.

[cgarrett]

A fast UI would be worth a lot to me.

[poultryfish]

I'm waiting for Cablevision's feature/service that just allows you to choose what show's you want to record, and it records them online/on a server (I think) which then allows you to watch it like on-demand content. I don't think it'll get past courts, as they are fighting the fact that it breaks copyright laws. But if they could get it to work? No additional hardware for basic DVR features seems a win-win for people who don't want to spend an arm and a leg (which is why we still don't have a DVR).

[markuskcmo]

What about OTA DVRs??? I installed a digital antenna for 150 bucks and have free TV, no monthly fees, yay! But I have been looking for a while to track down a DVR and cannot seem to find a thing that does not require a subscription and I am not skilled enough to use my old PC and convert it...Am I looking in the wrong places or is the time of free (recorded) TV over?

[imedgeman]

The best option for you would probably be the DTV PAL DVR, google it, it looks pretty cool, and has no monthly subscription. Don't say your not skilled enough to use a pc to DVR, it's much easier than most folks would think, especially with Windows Media Center, or a free option like GBPVR.

[Johnny Mac 7]

Hard drives are really cheap these days. There's no reason why a stand alone DVR should cost more than $100 even with no additional monthly fees and with expansion capability (either space for an additional user installed hard drive or flash memory). I'd like to see one with a SD card slot and an expansion bay.

[viper396]

From what perspective are you assuming everything can be had for $100? The CPU and Tuner components alone can cost more then $100. The harddrive itself (assuming 500GB) would already be in the $75~$100 range.

$300~$500 would be the more realistic range if you wanted to own everything outright.