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December 8, 2008 9:20 AM PST

Is Blu-ray becoming a commodity?--Ask the Editors

by Matthew Moskovciak
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Are all Blu-ray players created equal?

Are all Blu-ray players created equal?

"These below-$200 price points are great for sales, but what happens six months from now? Will Blu-ray become a commodity?"--Matthew

Just one year ago, HD DVD was selling tons of $99 players, Blu-ray players cost an unreasonable $400 or more, and we were advising buyers to hold off going Blu because the format wasn't quite ready yet. Now we're already wondering if Blu-ray is a commodity. It's a great illustration of how far the technology has come in just one year.

When a product is referred to as a commodity, that generally means that the differences between brands is so small that buyers treat all brands as essentially the same. For example, many would consider DVD players a commodity, and to a large extent we'd agree--aside from high-end models that offer exceptional DVD playback, most people don't care about the differences between players. That's why we've mostly stopped reviewing them.

If you look at our ratings for standalone Blu-ray players, it's easy to see that we clearly don't think Blu-ray is a commodity yet. Not all players are Profile 2.0 compliant, many don't have onboard decoding for Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, operation speed still varies significantly, and quite a few players don't have perfect video quality when outputting a standard 1080p signal. While it's arguable that the average consumer doesn't care about those aspects, we feel it's pretty safe to say buyers will prefer the Panasonic DMP-BD35 to the Insignia NS-BRDVD.

That being said, we generally feel like there's less room for differentiation on Blu-ray than there was on DVD, especially for video quality. Even the "worst" Blu-ray playback looks very good, and the major deficiency that we do see--players incorrectly handling film material when outputting a 1080p at 60 frames per second--has been figured out by brand-name manufacturers. It's only a matter of time before that trickles down to bargain players, and then they'll all have nearly identical image quality. Audio quality is the same story. Using the HDMI output, we don't hear any differences in audio quality between the players.

Manufacturers seem to be aware of this, which may be why we've seen recent Blu-ray players add streaming services, like Netflix and Pandora, to further differentiate themselves. These extra features don't necessarily have anything to do with Blu-ray, but it's a lot easier to justify the cost of a new Blu-ray player if you're also getting access to Netflix. We'd also like to see standalone Blu-ray players add Wi-Fi to the feature set, as most people don't have Ethernet access in their living rooms. (The PS3, of course, already has WiFi.) We're also seeing Blu-ray itself being used as a differentiating feature, such as the handful of Blu-ray HTIBs released in 2008. Don't be surprised to see home theater systems with built-in Blu-ray hitting the $500-and-below price point in 2009, with Blu-ray listed as merely another check mark under features.

In short, it seems unavoidable that standard Blu-ray playback is going to be a commodity in the near future. Manufacturers will try and differentiate the players with additional features, and who knows, maybe they'll even push for new technology like Deep Color or 3D on Blu-ray to keep the profit margins high. The good news for buyers is that it won't be long until they can expect basically any Blu-ray player to offer a consistent user experience.

Covering home audio and video, Matthew Moskovciak helps CNET readers find the best sights and sounds for their home theaters. E-mail Matthew or follow him on Twitter @cnetmoskovciak.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (40 Comments)
by xmendoza December 8, 2008 9:51 AM PST
I love how blu-ray exposes 40-year old actresses trying to play 20 year olds. You can't smooth those wrinkles in high-def. haha
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by Jmobie December 8, 2008 11:19 AM PST
So true. I asked my dad, "Do you really want Shine a Light on Blu-ray and see the Stones in HD?"
by gunnergoz December 8, 2008 11:34 AM PST
I have a Blu-Ray player in my HP laptop but I refuse to pay $25 bucks for a movie. It's positively highway robbery. Why pay that when regular video DVD's cost $15 at discount upon release? My HD-upscaling DVD player shows them very well at 1080i.
It seems to me that the movie industry and the Blu-Ray manufacturers think the public are chumps; well-paid, yuppie chumps.
Reply to this comment
by haphilli December 8, 2008 11:57 AM PST
It is all about people's tastes, I was watching The Lord of the Rings upscaled yesterday and it looked like crap, and that film is wonderfully shot. I usually only buy movies that I know will watch, straying away from Comedies and Dramas. WaLL-E is amazing and a noticeable difference.
by moviemaestro December 8, 2008 12:21 PM PST
I'm sure this comment was posted purely to inspire debate. Well, here it is. When you're watching a movie on a laptop screen - sure DVDs will look "fine". Watch a movie on a 42" screen (or on a 90" screen with a projector, like I do) and the difference between DVD and blu-ray is PAINFULLY obvious.
I'll gladly pay the extra $5-10 for that much improvement in quality. By all means, continue to watch your movies in mediocrity - but no need to call me a chump for appreciating the best video format on the market.
by jimothyGator December 9, 2008 1:55 PM PST
moviemaestro: I've never watched a Blu-Ray on a laptop, but I suspect you'd still be able to tell the difference between it and a DVD, as you're then dealing with a very short viewing distance.
by Renegade Knight December 24, 2008 7:12 AM PST
DVD is 480p. That does OK when upscaled. That's why you can enjoy your DVD's on your BlueRay player and have the luxery of waiting for BlueRay disks to hit the bargain bin at Wally World.
by darkpoet25 December 24, 2008 7:43 PM PST
People can obviously tell a difference when a movie like The Dark Knight can sell 2,000,000 copies over just a few days.
by dworkman December 29, 2008 3:36 PM PST
Echoing moviemaestro, clearly gunnergoz needs to compare standard DVD and blu-ray on a large screen, 50 inch or more, to appreciate the difference. I imagine you'll happily hand over $5 more then, gunnergoz.
by miltongomes August 29, 2009 8:52 AM PDT
I am a brazilian that likes very much to see films in DVD. I agree with you. Blu-Ray manufacturers think the public are chumps; well-paid, yuppie chumps. I never will pay so much for a Blu-Ray film. Why to buy a player for? Just to say you have one at home? Kind regards from Brazil, home of Bossa Nova.
by MasterJ24 December 8, 2008 11:54 AM PST
The technology is still very new. When the demand hits a certain point the prices will drop substantially.

Besides, you need to know where to shop. A blu-ray at Best Buy could be $35 and if you look on Amazon the same version would probably be $25 or so.
Reply to this comment
by ev61 December 8, 2008 11:55 AM PST
The complaining about price for discs is silly. When discussing CDs even 5 years ago, did everyone complain that a CD cost $25 at Sam Goody, therefore CD technology is dead? People who are looking at MSRP and other high priced BDs are not looking at all, but simply complaining. Less than $20 is the standard, and for the huge improvement over DVD in picture and sound, it is worth a bit of looking around!
Reply to this comment
by December 8, 2008 2:44 PM PST
Ha! Ha! No. They complained that CD's were $25 at Sam Goody and now Sam Goody is dead. Haven't seen a Sam Goody store in about 10 years.
by shinelikeitdoes December 8, 2008 5:17 PM PST
exactly..bye bye sam goody. its also the reason the music industry is completely falling apart. rather than change with the times and offer reasonable prices for new formats, the industry wanted to ride its sinking ship of price gouging for mostly mediocre to poor content.
by Renegade Knight December 24, 2008 7:14 AM PST
eh? 30 bucks a movie for BlueRay is a rip off when the DVD right next to it is 15 or less.
Now if CD's were 25 bucks and the (Insert Non Existant Format here) Right next to it that played in the CD players was 12 bucks it would be a fair comparison.
by Haasbat December 8, 2008 11:57 AM PST
The only reason I want Blu-Ray is so i can Netflix Blu-Rays and watch them for only $1 more per month. I don't find there are THAT many movies I want to own anymore. Of course, I have some classics, that I will likely upgrade eventually, once the Godfather Trilogy is quadrulply remastered for Blu-Ray. But just for watching, Netflix is like a library card, and I don't mind having them only 1 day away, so that's the only reason I need Blu-Ray. Of course, once they offer their whole library Instantly, and I have a faster broadband connection, I won't need Netflix to mail me anything anymore.
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by dworkman December 29, 2008 3:38 PM PST
Godfather has already been quadruply remastered. :)

http://www.amazon.com/Godfather-Coppola-Restoration-Giftset-Blu-ray/dp/B000NTPDSW/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1230593856&sr=8-1

Looks great too!
by tipoo_ December 8, 2008 12:11 PM PST
"I'm not a macodity!"


(Dr tran refrence)
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by shinelikeitdoes December 8, 2008 12:24 PM PST
blu ray is simply going to be too little too late to ever be as ubiquitous as regular dvd. if they DO add the netflix streaming or similar options being offered out there, most people will probably wind up finding that being more useful.

i can stream HD titles to my xbox360 right now, the selection is small but it will grow, and this will be the model of the future. monthly rental fees for access to huge libraries. the bandwidth and resolution issues will catch up eventually. with few exceptions, i could care less to ever *own* a disk anymore at all.
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by Shaun822 December 8, 2008 1:14 PM PST
The best thing that could have happened for BR occurred when Comcast, Time Warner, and other ISPs decided to limit data transfers per month. Stream 1 true full HD moive a day and you will go over the monthly HD limits in between 2 and 3 weeks (less than that if the stream includes dolby true HD sound), add in all of your other internet activities such as e-mail, gaming, surfing, etc. and that time limit goes down quicker. Or get a BR disc and watch it as much as you want without having to worry about data transfer limits.
by shinelikeitdoes December 8, 2008 5:19 PM PST
@ shaun822

i could still stream a number of movies at whatever price for exceeding bandwidth for less than the cost of ONE blu ray disk.
by skillingssucks December 10, 2008 1:49 PM PST
No you can't. The "cost" of repeatedly exceeding your bandwidth cap is termination of your account.
by Renegade Knight December 24, 2008 7:16 AM PST
@shinelikeitdoes

You can stream all you want and you still won't own the movie the say as if you bought it on DVD or BlueRay.
by loose_screw December 8, 2008 12:32 PM PST
Until blueray hits below the $50 mark, I'm not buying. Call me a late adopter, but I waited for DVD to come down in price, and am glad I'm glad I'm not one of those people who paid a premium for DVD players. I was an early adopter once (can you say minidisc? ouch), never again!
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by robertorosco December 8, 2008 1:46 PM PST
lol @ minidisc :)
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by mpheadley December 8, 2008 2:10 PM PST
I'd actually rather see Blu-Ray become a stepping stone for a new chip-based home video format. A non-recordable flash-like chip for movies (that could employ AVCHD) and flash memory for recording HD. This technology is here now. Camcorders are already doing this. Someone just needs to mass produce it and make it affordable. Would solve the problem of storage. Think about storing 300-500 movies in a briefcase! It would solve the problem of scratches.
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by Stories84 December 8, 2008 3:15 PM PST
But think how expensive blank media currently is. If an average BD title is 40GB in size, imagine what a 50GB SDHC card with media on it would cost. I mean, a blank 16GB SDHC card is around $40 on Amazon right now. I think we're still a bit of a ways away from that.
by ddiddy415 December 8, 2008 2:41 PM PST
Watch The Matrix on Blu-ray........Even if you have seen the movie a 100 times.....as soon as the movie starts.....it feels like the first time you've ever seen the movie. It just AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!! It makes the dvd version look like vhs.....ha ha ha....vhs.....thats funny
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by shinelikeitdoes December 8, 2008 5:20 PM PST
too bad blu ray cant make the matrix sequels not suck.
by VitaPrimo December 8, 2008 3:23 PM PST
My only -and stupid- complain is that they made the boxes slightly smaller than the DVD's. But, oh well, since my blu-ray collection is already growing, I guess the old DVDs will just phase out.. :)
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by emgesp December 8, 2008 3:28 PM PST
I have Blade Runner on Blu-ray, SD-DVD and VHS, so I thought I would do a pq comparison.

The most astounding difference was looking at the VHS and saying to myself, "How the hell did we enjoy this format?" It was if the once beautiful cinematography and visual effects were butchered by the worst surgeon in South America. Comparing the VHS to the newly restored Blu-ray version was a revelation.

VHS was a terrible format when it came to widescreen films. What ass-munch came up with the idea of pan & scan? The man should have been executed.
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by dirty55409 December 8, 2008 3:49 PM PST
It's not becoming a commodity quite yet. I'm not one of those idiots that says "I'm not getting it until the players are under $100" because you can hardly find a good upconverting DVD player for that price. I have 1 friend with an HDTV and he just got a blu ray player for $250 which came with 2 Blu Ray Discs... I've had my PS3 for 2 years bought Speed for $5 at Gamestop. When the BD-Rs become cheaper and people can rip blu ray discs for cheap... then it'll become more mainstream.
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by brettak81 December 9, 2008 5:39 AM PST
my Blu-ray player is my 60gb PS3. sad thing is that i don't own a single movie on Blu-ray because of the price. anytime i want a movie bad enough to buy it i'm still opting for the standard dvd from walmart, target, or even the used-dvd section at blockbuster.

$5 - $10 per movie is what i need. until Blu-ray drops significantly i can't begin my conversion of my collection just yet...
Reply to this comment
by lobo65 December 9, 2008 6:35 AM PST
You folks who say that Blu-Ray movies are too exepensive are right, but you should do what I do---buy them used from private sellers on Amazon. I usually wind up getting them for half the retail price that way.
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by drriver December 9, 2008 9:19 AM PST
lobo65 makes an excellent point --- even amazon's (as opposed to marketplace sellers) prices are often much much lower than retail. I really get a sense of finality when I buy a blu-ray. IMHO, blu-ray is as far as we need to go in terms of image and sound quality. The price for the discs will continue to drop as sony sells more PS3s and the bargain brands jump in with quality standalone players. Just a few days ago I bought First Blood on blu for $10 at the local Wal-Mart.
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by cardfan1212 December 24, 2008 6:16 AM PST
Netflix is your answer. I prefer BR when possible.

And here's why. I got a 73" Mits. I got a Klipsch sound system, denon receiver, PS3.

Now why on God's earth would i buy a dvd when i can get the movie in 1080p on a BR disc?

I know i'm not the mainstream consumer that the writer is talking about. Yep, they'll be fine getting dvd's. The problem is having something to watch them on. Flat panels or hd monitors are still being adopted and are not the norm yet. As more go this route, having bought that 1080p set, then they'll naturally look at blu-ray next. If i haven't got a flat panel, then i've no reason to look beyond a dvd.

Keep in mind, consumers know how to buy a disc and put it in. Downloading or streaming movies will take even longer to adopt IMO (keep in mind, you have to view the general consumer as totally ignorant). Not to mention, try finding HD streaming or downloading that is in the same league as 1080p?

Blu-ray will have a limited life, but that is true of any digital format. Streaming and downloading has its place but they're are more constraints...speed of ISP, availability, caps, networking, consumer know how, etc.
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by Josh BSN December 29, 2008 8:25 AM PST
No need to complain about $25 and $30 prices. When you see those, skip over them and look elsewhere. If you won't take the time to look for a decent price, then you shouldn't be complaining about the high ones anyway =D

I only have a small blu-ray library, but they are 10 of the most popular blu-rays out there, and I paid ~$15 for all but one, which I paid $18 for.
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by cpopken December 29, 2008 10:09 AM PST
When VHS first came out they were VERY expensive, after they became more popular that Betamax the prices were still about 25-30 dollars. Granted most people just rented them than bought them. VCR's were about $400-600 when we first bought ours in 85. Even in 93 when I was in college the cheapest one I could find was $200. It took a long time for the prices to come down. Most people I know didn't buy movies on VHS, they just rented them and recorded from HBO or Cinemax. That was the advantage that VCR's had over DVD's at the beginning, you could record off of you TV.

When DVD's became popular the price differences between VHS was about $15-20. VHS was about $10-12 and DVD's were 25-30. People loved the quality of DVD's and the special features, so they were willing to pay the extra money. It also took a while for rental stores to carry DVD's. When it became mainstream it really took off. People bought 5.1 surround sound systems and wide screen TV's to take advantage of the full potential of the format. Now that HDTV's are becoming more popular people are going to want to take full advantage of their purchase. I have a 55 inch TV and can notice a big difference in DVD and Blu-ray.

Streaming may be the future, but it still is about 5 years off. But when it takes off there will still be a market for discs. People still buy movies even though you can rent them, so I think people will still want to own their favorite movies. Do you want to drag your player over to your friends house to watch a movie? There is enough of a market for both formats to survive. One great new feature they have added is the addition of a separate disc for digital copy. I think it is a great idea that I can own the movie and have a copy I can put on my mp3 player or computer to watch on the go.

Blu-ray will eventually replace DVD's, but for how long remains to be seen. Something new and better may come along.
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