Nero Liquid TV: TiVo for your PC

(Credit: Nero)

Traditionally, anyone who wanted to convert a PC into a DVR was limited to the likes of Windows Media Center, SnapStream Beyond TV, or (for the more adventurous DIYers) MythTV.

Starting in October 2008, however, people can turn their Windows PCs into a full-on TiVo DVR thanks to Nero's new Liquid TV package. The software effectively turns a standard PC into a full-service TiVo DVR, replete with the same interface, program guide, and ease-of-use as TiVo's standalone hardware DVRs--but with the added ability to burn recorded shows to DVD or export them to portable devices such as the iPod or PlayStation Portable.

Liquid TV will be available in two versions. The $200 package includes a standard TiVo remote, USB DTV tuner/antenna (for over-the-air analog and digital TV, including HD broadcasts), and an IR blaster (for controlling external cable and satellite boxes, which would then be fed into a video capture card on your PC). The $100 package is software only; it's for people who already have a TV tuner card and remote solution (or who will opt for the software's onscreen mouse controls).

The software is said to support up to four TV tuners, one of which can be an external set-top box. Both versions include a year's worth of the all-important TiVo service (required for use). Nero hasn't officially set the renewal fee for the service, but company reps suggested that it will be less than the $13 per month that's the baseline for owners of the set-top TiVo boxes.

If you don't want to use the remote, an onscreen interface can be controlled by the mouse.

(Credit: Nero)

Nero provided CNET with a quick demo of Liquid TV last week. While the company-run demo was brief (and strictly under Nero's control), it appeared to confirm that Liquid TV is almost a straight PC port of the TiVo experience. All of TiVo's standard TV-recording functionality looked to be onboard--pause and rewind live TV, commercial skip, Season Pass, WishList, search, and even KidZone.

The software's fairly muscular system requirements will preclude its running on older PCs, but the advantage is a big increase in speed and responsiveness compared with recent TiVo hardware. The software also has a control overlay, so you can easily control it with the PC's pointing device if you're sitting at the desk (instead of sitting on a sofa, for instance).

The other big advantage of the PC-based TiVo experience is DVD burning and portable device transfer. Yes, both of these features are available with standard TiVos with that company's TiVo To Go add-on software (and a compatible DVD-burning software package). But transferring the recordings over your home network and then transcoding them is a long and laborious process. The transcoding and compression phases still take time with Liquid TV. But because the recordings are already on the hard drive, things go a lot faster, and the processes can go on in the background as you continue to watch other recordings or live TV. (It's the closest thing to products like the Pioneer DVR-810H and Humax DRT800, which were among our favorite TiVo-powered set-top devices when they were first released.)

The software includes built-in support for DVD burning and transfer to portable devices.

(Credit: Nero)

So, what are the potential drawbacks? If Liquid TV is like other TiVo products, content providers or broadcasters could use program "flags" to make it impossible for certain shows to be transferred to DVD or portable (or recorded at all). But the bigger problem could be the HD issue for anyone not using an over-the-air antenna source. If you want to record a program from your cable or satellite box--for something not over-the-air like HBO, Showtime, Comedy Central, USA, ESPN--most PCs only allow standard-definition video capture (composite or S-Video). To get HD quality, there are only two possibilities: capturing the HD video output stream from the external cable/satellite box, or getting a PC with internal CableCard support. Unfortunately, peripherals and PCs with hardware support for either solution remain rare.

Note that Liquid TV doesn't offer internal support for Internet bells and whistles found on TiVo boxes--stuff like Amazon Video-on-Demand, TiVoCasts, podcast support, Internet radio, and so forth. But since you're already using a computer, all of that would be superfluous, anyway. Its absence isn't much of a loss.

Is Liquid TV worth buying? If PC makers could make it easier to get an external HD cable feed, I think it would eliminate the product's biggest red flag. Also, competing products like SnapStream's Beyond TV already offer built-in support for antenna HD recording, DVD burning, and transfer to portable devices. Still, the ability to get a true TiVo interface, the TiVo remote, and the necessary accessories and dongles in one box--along with a year of service--could well make Nero Liquid TV a compelling PC DVR option for many.

[plbyrd]

It is quite simple: I want Dish Network and DirecTV to release satellite tuner cards in PCI Express form factor. Having to come up with a device that can accept HDMI input which has already been transcoded twice (once at the satellite broadcast location, second in the HD receiver) isn't what I call optimal. I'd pay a monthly premium over a standard DVR offered by the sattelite companies. My living room PC is far and away more powerful than those DVRs and the ability to merge my TV content with my digitally stored movie collection is without a quest one of the best uses of my living room PC.

I whole heartedly agree and I would like a verson for PCMCIA as I am a Directv subscriber. It would seem as though the Satt. Companies are letting a vast resource going untapped. Please don't tell me it is a matter of hardware because it is not, but it is a matter of software for the PCs and maybe some hardware connections. If I am going to pay for these other pirates online I would rather be legal and get DirecTV for my laptop and all my desktops.

[pu2006]

I would love to see a Mac version. I've got a Mac Mini connected to an HDhomerun with elgato eyeTV and iTunes/Frontrow running all the media for my home theater. But I'm a little tired of eyeTV's interface and instability and it doesn't integrate with Frontrow very well. I mean c'mon, there's not that many models of Macs out there that they can't program a stable application. And Myth and XBMC are just too complicated.

Or maybe Apple could just add TV tuner support and recording features to iTunes or Frontrow if they can get past the fact that some people (like me) won't pay $3 to download a HD TV show and/or might want to watch live TV. I know they applied for a patent along these lines, so bring it on.

[RobertFHarwood]

Earlier Macs, I have two in my basement, have this functionality. RCA connectors along with a analog cable/antenna tunner. Very basic VCR like software. Low commpression really eat up the disk space. My wife, who is a teacher, still has a bit of material still in that format.

[Jerewhon]

Although I have a TIVo series 1 that works fine with my TV, I just bought an Elgato Hybrid Tuner which comes with EyeTV 3 software.
It is a Mac product and although I only got it a week ago, it is as good or even better than the TivO.

More info at:

http://www.elgato.com

PS: No monthly fees for program guide.

[Renegade Knight]

$13 A month for a TV Guide? Cable, and Over The Air providers should be giving this stuff away so we know what we can watch on their system. Heck TV guide can sell the service for far less like they have been doing for the past few generations.

[RobertFHarwood]

The TiVo subscription is more then just a guide. Two of the features I use most are the Season Pass and KidZone.
Season Pass sets up reccuring recording of shows by name, not day and time. If the show's schedule changes the recording tracks it. If the show is a repeat, and you are set for first run only it will be ignored, it will also pick a showing that doesn't conflict with other recordings by itself, no juggling.
KidZone starts out with picking a panel of experts who judgements you trust, then add and subtract from their list of shows. Then the only programming the kids can see are the ones on the list. Works better then just a parential control lock out.

[ianbnet]

I'm a little shocked at the article opening with "limited to the likes of..."

Each of the three products mentioned is significantly more full-featured than a Tivo, offers beautiful interfaces, and you don't have to pay $150/year for the TV guide that is a prerequisite of even using such a product.

While the Tivo is a game-changing device, with a slick and refined UI, this seems more like a gimmick than anything else, given the multiple better solutions already on the market.

[ducttape36]

amen

[djames42]

I'm glad to see the article mentions BeyondTV as an alternative. For me it's the *only* reason I still have a Windows box in the house. Not only is the interface beautiful, it pretty much supports everything TiVo does and more. It has community recommendations which likely compare with TiVo's recommendations. It creates DVDs complete with menus and chapters (and speaking of chapters, it also determines where commercial breaks start and end and creates chapter marks--and does a darn good job of it, allowing one-click skipping of the ads), and exports to virtually every portable device out there including iPods and devices that support mpeg1/2/4/DivX/WMV - I have a Mac Mini as a media center and subscribe to my recorded television programs via "podcast" which then automatically sync to my AppleTV.

For $150 you can buy a package complete with tuner card, remote and software, and unlike TiVo you don't have to pay anything to get the program guide. Granted there's a minimal cost to add the DVD and iPod support, but it's still cheaper than the initial TiVo investment.

My only two complaints with BeyondTV are that the iTunes export does not preserve chapter marks, and that it does not support a platform other than Windows. Otherwise, it's the perfect DVR replacement!

[djames42]

I'm glad to see the article mentions BeyondTV as an alternative. For me it's the *only* reason I still have a Windows box in the house. Not only is the interface beautiful, it pretty much supports everything TiVo does and more. It has community recommendations which likely compare with TiVo's recommendations. It creates DVDs complete with menus and chapters (and speaking of chapters, it also determines where commercial breaks start and end and creates chapter marks--and does a darn good job of it, allowing one-click skipping of the ads), and exports to virtually every portable device out there including iPods and devices that support mpeg1/2/4/DivX/WMV - I have a Mac Mini as a media center and subscribe to my recorded television programs via "podcast" which then automatically sync to my AppleTV.

For $150 you can buy a package complete with tuner card, remote and software, and unlike TiVo you don't have to pay anything to get the program guide. Granted there's a minimal cost to add the DVD and iPod support, but it's still cheaper than the initial TiVo investment.

My only two complaints with BeyondTV are that the iTunes export does not preserve chapter marks, and that it does not support a platform other than Windows. Otherwise, it's the perfect DVR replacement!

[zorrillaj]

Medicenter does all this already and there's no monthly fee. It has a beautiful and easy to use interface, plus you can use a microsoft remote or program your harmony for it. I don't see the point of this at all. Paying $100-$150/yearf just so you get the experience doesn't sound very attractive.

[ceeneter]

Tivo used to be the biggest media consumer ripoff. Now Nero is set to exceed them with this pile;) Existing PC products like BeyondTV and even some of the free software you can download out there, already provide this service for nothing or a very low one-time price. Why on earth would anyone pay 12-13 dollars a month for Tivo or virtual Tivo. I guess computer illiterate people? or the ones who like the way TI-VO rolls off their tongue so easily.

BTW BeyondTV started supporting HD recording ages ago. I've had three HD tuners now for over two years. If I wanted to I can add even more tuners.

[tethior]

I dont agree with the statement that "Tivo used to be the biggest media consumer ripoff". For those people who are no computer savy or who have experienced the poor signal quality from PC based solutions, Tivo is a good solution. It is an AV device first and as such provides better s/n ratio than a PC.

With the advent of the cable company provided DVR, the Tivo continues to proivde features and performance that the cable company's implementation cannot come close to.

I'm also a very happy Beyond TV user. I'm glad to see a competitive product in the marketplace!

[RobertFHarwood]

I have been a long time owner of TiVo. I bought my Pioneer TiVo with DVD burner within the first few months of it being availabe. The burner would cut a disc 4x speed. Back then TiVo had two tiers of service and the Pioneer came with Lifetime Basic included in its almost $900 price tag. For several years I didn't need cable service since I keep the TiVo at my mother-in-laws. She had cable and the TiVo recorded the programs I was interested in. On Sunday we would go over and during our visit I would burn it all to DVD-RWs.

I have a Series3HD now a days. We use TiVo To Go daily to store kids programs out to the NAS. 5 terabytes, The TiVo format files are transcoded to WMV by Roxio. Roxio does a superior job of converting to iPod, though slower. It also burns DVDs.

I find it interesting that the Pioneer doesn't seem to recognize the same broadcast flags of the Series3HD.

[dukeboy42]

One thing this does not mention is whether or not it will stream recorded show to/from existing Tivo boxes. This might fall under the paragraph that mentions it doesn't include all the "bells and whitles" of regular Tivos. That, to me, is what would make this device most useful to go with my Tivo HD.

[mados123]

Was interested when I first saw the article. Then realized that they must be kidding to think they will be competitive with this product and still have monthly fees. DIY's will not pay that much for a product like this and those probably interested in TiVo probably have their box already. BeyondTV for me also.

[fhegner]

I live in Thailand and cable and TV are PAL. What recommendations do you have for configuring a DVR? The shelf solutions are limited (there is a Philips DVR, but all it does is record live TV based only on the channel you are watching). Does Windows Media Center or the other software listed here have the ability to read the programming schedule of any cable provder?

[MisterMeister]

@fhegner

"Does Windows Media Center or the other software listed here have the ability to read the programming schedule of any cable provder?"

I have a MythTV server that handles cable schedules here in the United States with Schedules Direct for $20.00 per year. MythTV uses an XMLTV grabber for countries outside of the United States and Canada. In reality most of the PC DVRs use an XMLTV grabber and EPG data to populate the schedule database.

MythTV is a good option if your have multiple computers since you can have one machine as the server(backend) and the others as clients (frontends) or a combination of both. MythTV frontends are available for Windows, Linux, OSX, Maemo (Nokia), and there's even a frontend for the iPhone.

I would suggest using a distro such as Mythbuntu since it comes with additional dialogs and setup menus that make installation much easier. You can download it here:

http://www.mythbuntu.org/

[genemcd]

I agree with the "by plbyrd September 29, 2008 5:28 AM PDT " post.
DirecTV and Tivo are renewing an old relationship. I would like to see them take this product, add a couple of HD satellite tuners with HDMI output and run with it. Especially if the PC & Nero could work with a blu-ray burner...yeah! Give me all that and I'm there.
We currently have five (old) DirecTivos and yeah...as a tekkie geek, what is offered to the user doesn't seem to exploit the technology that much...but to my 75-year-old mother in law and my non-tekkie wife - they think the Tivo interface is the greatest way to watch TV that ever existed. If it gets too complicated, they're not going to care or use it.
I think this product is a great start, but I hope they keep evolving it. Maybe when the first "new generation" of DirecTivos come out in 2009, they'll be ready to do something like this that is DirecTV specific.

[cknouf]

There is absolutely no need for this product in the marketplace, especially when Nero Liquid TV offers ONLY the same features as Beyond TV, Sage, MythTV, GBPVR and Media Center but for a much more expensive ongoing cost for scheduling updates at an annual cost of around $99 to $156. The majority of the the previous comments already allude to this but I just wanted to add mine to the list and hope that Nero hasn't made a big mistake in developing and endorsing this product. I'm perfectly happy with my Beyond TV, SVideo input from my two DISH network receivers and will soon be adding a great new product, the Hauppauge HD PVR that provides true component video input and 5-1 Surround Sound to my PC setup.

[godzero]

FreeVo, and similar, has been around for years. No fancy box or anything but it's free. TiVo was just a ripoff of Replay anyway, and not quite as good.

[topher68]

the software might actually be worth having if you didn't have the $13 a month fee after the first year. ".......but company reps suggested that it will be less than the $13 per month that's the baseline for owners of the set-top TiVo boxes." i have snap stream's Beyond TV and for the $70 the software costs, it works just like tivo. i set it to record "all in the family" on tvland (now no longer on tvland) and when tvland changed the time slot, Beyond tv changed the recording schedule. i recorded season 4.10 to season 6.24 this way without a hiccup. and beyond tv will record a second airing (if one is available) if the computer doesn't record the first airing. also does "new/first run" or any on the recording setup

[vony__123]

thats soo cool i want one

[e-mail]

[dirk6665]

I'm going to write this from a consumers point of view. Having used MythTV, SnapStream, Tivo, Media Center, Freevo, Sonic Blue's Replay 500 and some other off-the-wall PVR software... The convergence of media into a PC format factor is getting the attention of many nowadays for sure. Let there be no doubt. My primary goal for my own HTPC is a one-stop-shop for all of my media on one remote - on one server - with an intuitive and low maintenance system that's available throughout the home. It has to have all the inputs and outputs for the general audience and us media uber geeks. The interface must be intuitive, smooth, informational without being over laden with too much frill. It should permit SD and HD video viewing and recording with all the features we have some to expect. It should support online media and have the ability to play a plethora of other digital media as well. The problem, for most, is the limits of each.

For instance, in the video realm as someone mentioned above, it's very difficult to bring the output from a 1080p HD stream from a DirecTV to a media PC. With all of the DRM going on this is going to become even more difficult as time goes on because DirecTV and the media moguls who get to decide what, where and how you can watch content are someday going to (try to..) prevent you from streaming that HD video to a capture device capable of receiving it. If it's not an authorized device ... poof! Too bad for you. Digressing from all of this and getting back on-topic of the nero LiquidTV.... I think nero is attempting to make it easier for those who want to have a media PC get into the game. Let's face reality - my parents (and probably most of yours as well) can use a computer, get email and do allot with their home PC's - but I could never see them putting together a MythTV HTPC. Mostly because much of the software out there doesn't come ready-to-go and bundled with both an easy-to-deploy hardware AND software solution. (Yes I know it exists, but read - I said EASY!)

My theory is the first developer to build an HTPC that works in a modular format - and one that can work with DirecTV/Dish/SomeCableCo. and can do this with minimal fuss and large presentation ... will take center stage in the market. Especially if the developer built it in modular fashion where you can add / remove features as needed. Need a MP3 streaming server? Select, Add, done. Don't need the RSS Feed module? Unselect, poof! Gone. DVD Recording? Select. Add, Available. Want to record a DirecTV HD program while checking out some good buy on eBay? -- you get the point.

The end result, in my opinion, is that all of these software PVR's bring some great must-have features to the table. But NONE of them have all the features one might need. In order to achieve this you go back to buildng a mosh-posh of software. Now what is the admin page for that uPNP media server again?

Once there is a marriage of hardware to meet the needs of the masses, and the software has the features needed by the audience of the world, then we can talk turkey. For now - its not the wheel re-invented... it's just a different looking tire.

My .02 cents, current value at world economy = .0001/cent

What would your perfect HTPC be?