How iTunes could become the ultimate DVD ripper--and why Apple won't let it

The iTunes Store: Apple's biggest incentive not to add DVD ripping.

(Credit: CNET)

The first smattering of user reactions to RealNetworks' RealDVD software--which allows users to legally rip DVD movies to their PC hard drives--is less than enthusiastic, to say the least. The most telling comment: "Lack of mobile device support is the killer for me." Indeed, Real's product lets you move ripped movies between a total of five licensed PCs, but that assumes they're on a USB hard drive or some sort of flash media--thus far, there's no provision for network streaming, and no support for transferring the movies to portable devices."

Of course, when people say "portable media players," it's pretty much a synonym for "iPod." And while we could imagine Real eventually cutting deals to have devices that are compatible with its proprietary RealDVD format, it's a safe bet that Apple won't be among the partners. But the whole existence of RealDVD raises another question: if Real can release software that makes it quick, easy, and legal for users to rip their DVDs to their PC hard drive, why can't Apple?

Real's software is built on the legal precedent set by Kaleidescape's 2007 victory over the DVD Copy Control Association. Provided that you are backing up DVDs that you own, doing so for your own personal use, and keeping the copy-protection intact, Real's betting that it, too, can keep the lawyers at bay. Assuming the company is correct, though, that would seem to open the floodgates for other companies to release kosher DVD rippers.

Apple's iTunes already lets you rip audio CDs--indeed, the original iTunes tagline was "Rip, Mix, Burn." One would think adding DVD ripping to iTunes' bag of tricks wouldn't be that big of a challenge. Yes, like Real's solution, an Apple-ripped DVD would have to be locked into a proprietary, DRM-encoded iTunes-only format. But for most people, that'll be a feature, not a bug. You'd pop the disc into your PC, and iTunes would ask how you'd want it ripped: optimized for Apple TV streaming or optimized for iPod/iPhone (i.e. larger, high-res files or smaller downscaled ones). Once it was in iTunes, the files could be transferred within the entire Applesphere of products: the PC desktop (Windows and Mac iTunes libraries), the living room (Apple TV), and the portable realm (iPod and iPhone).

Now, the more digital-savvy among you are already saying, "I can do all of this already." Indeed, there are plenty of freeware/shareware programs that can rip your DVDs into an iTunes-optimized format, at the resolution of your choosing, where you can then do whatever you'd like with the file--including watch it on your PC, stream it to an Apple TV, or transfer it to an iPod or iPhone. But that's still a two-step process (at mininum) that requires a modicum of techie skills to get up and running. By contrast, building the process into iTunes would make it all but a one-click operation.

Sounds great, right? Unfortunately, I think you better keep those underground freeware rippers installed--I don't think we'll be seeing this feature added to iTunes anytime soon, for two reasons. First, it's unclear if Real's legal gambit will pay off. After all, precedents were made to be overturned, and even if their position isn't legally tenable, deep-pocketed movie studios could try to tie down Real in expensive litigation--enough to make other companies shy away from releasing similar DVD-ripping software. Secondly--and arguably more importantly--it's not really in Apple's financial interest to add DVD ripping to iTunes. The company wants to expand, not shrink, the demand for its online iTunes Store: Apple makes nothing if you rip a DVD, but it (and its studio partners) split anywhere from $3 to $15 per flick, depending if you rent or buy. The company isn't likely to kill off that revenue stream anytime soon.

I'd love to be wrong on this one. It'd be great if one of the big announcements at Tuesday's Apple event was the addition of DVD ripping to iTunes. But I think this one is going to remain strictly on the "in an ideal world" wish list.

What do you think: Will Apple ever add DVD ripping to iTunes? Or are you content with DIY solutions?

[GadgetDon]

The biggest issue with what Real is doing, is how it deals with the ever-changing copy protection layered on DVDs. It's why DVD rippers (like MacTheRipper or AnyDVD) have to keep being updated. My guess is that Real is prepared to deal with just the basic stuff common to all DVDs, and maybe macrovision. But any Disney disk is going make it whimper.

They'd need the cooperation with the studios to make it reliable. Which they aren't going to get.

I do think it would be in Apple's interests. Yes, they make money from the media store...but they make a lot more on hardware.

[ev61]

I don't think Apple when I think of someone standing up for consumers rights, so no.

[UKStory1355]

I think that this is a natural and perfect progression for itunes. As the iPod line of media players is becoming more and more focused on video there will be a demand for people to transfer their DVD's to their iPod's. The third party software has been hit and miss for me. About three quarters of the time, the conversion happens without a hitch and I can enjoy watching the videos on either my nano or my iPhone. The other third of the time the videos will go on itunes, but they won't sync. Some major media player software, whether it is itunes or windows media player will have this ability soon and I hope that iPod doesn't have to play catch-up.

[kristomints]

While you're probably right that Apple wouldn't implement this feature out of the fear they'd shrink the market for movies through iTunes, I think it could actually increase their market.

I, for one, have no real interest in downloading movies. I likely wouldn't download many anyway, so I would have a small number of movies separate from my hard-copy DVD collection. I don't want to buy all my DVDs as downloads (and not everything would be available that way, anyway), so I'm not really big into downloaded and portable movies. However, if I could import my existing collection and make it portable, I would then be interested in supplementing it with a few downloaded movies.

It's the same way I use iTunes for my music. I download some music, and the rest I buy as CDs and rip. But if the only way I could legally put music on my iPod was to buy it through iTunes, then my iPod would get no use; I would go with whatever allowed me to use my existing collection first.

[ellenhart]

Yes! Apple should add DVD ripping .. especially considering the price you pay for a movie. If I'm paying $9.99 or $12.99 for a film, I'd like to be able to rip it to my hard drive. That said, I won't hold my breath. I doubt Apple will do this until they have an actual competitor who's willing to offer the service.

[umbrae]

Since there are so many good FREE ripping software, why would you want it from iTunes. All they will do is wrap it up and DRM and restrict anything you might want to do with it. Better to use software that cannot be sued or will not bend to the MPAA or RIAA.

[pjhenry1216]

You're missing the big component. It needs to retain the copyright protection. As far as I know, only iPod touches and iPhones could possibly be updated with firmware to utilize that copyright protection. Also, I'm not sure if copyright gives you a license to stream, nor am I aware of whether it allows you to manipulate the video (change the resolution).

Most of the points you're saying Apple could do are out of the question from a completely legal point of view. They'd have to acquire a license to do most of those things from the individual companies.

[atldsl]

I think dvd's are a pain and I hate getting one that forces you to watch xxx until you finally get to the main menu. Forget ripping them. All content should be had from the web for whatever the device you want to view it on. As far as the Real Networks product, I really don't want to wait for the rip and I really don't want a 4 - 8 GB file hanging on my pc where the file would look just as good at under a GB using an H.264 codec.

[fjgilroy]

I think in the long run this is inevitable and DVDs will follow the same path as Audio CDs. Around the same point most folks stop buying movies on physical media, the powers that be will realize they spent allot of money fighting a loosing battle and will give in.

[Techobserver]

Actually, apple can do one better. If the movie already is available on iTunes, they can just upload a digital copy to the library provided the DVD inserted for ripping is a legal copy.

[skidmore101]

I know I'm a few months behind, but that's a great idea. I wonder, though, how much that would cost Apple. Like, how much does it cost them to allow a movie to download?

Also, what about the videos that aren't on iTunes?

[Daniel L Smith]

Sure, the iTunes Store is a factor, but not because of the revenue stream. If this feature helps sell iPods, I'm sure that would more than make up for any lost revenue.

*But*, it's clear the studios don't like DVD ripping (for one thing, it's trivial for Joe Consumer to "buy" a $1 DVD from Red Box). And without the studios, the iTunes Store has no content.

[nyada]

Who really cares? Just another reason for someone to rag on Apple again. DVD ripping is so easy for anyone who wants to do it and it has been for the last five years. So lets not act like this is a big deal in any way...

[crsteele]

What would be great is if everyone just decided to stop supporting the studios that are too stupid to support the artists and their customers.
Then when the retards at riaa, viacom, fox etc started starving to death maybe, just maybe they would figure out that they need to start paying the artists that create the content and not screwing the buyers of that content, and the thing they will always be to stupid to figure out.... they need to stop ripping everyone off, because until the ripoff stops... everything they say is just noise... nobody is listening.

[jragosta]

"Then when the retards at riaa, viacom, fox etc started starving to death maybe, just maybe they would figure out that they need to start paying the artists that create the content"

Oh, right. Musicians and actors are starving to death. I guess Michael Jackson didn't really make $50 M per year. And all the other multi-trilionaire artists.

The 'studios don't pay artists' myth is ridiculous. 99% of Americans would just love the income of so many of the artists.

[pixelm]

aaa

[pixelm]

Your comment doesn't make any sense. Sure there are issues between studios (and other distributors) and the various people who contribute to creative products. Big dollar creative (for example theatrical motion pictures) requires lots of capital, plus thousands of people to pull off. How does piracy help the talented people who help get the pictures made. Everyone should want a bigger pot, not a smaller one - even if they disagree over how the pot should be split.

Underlying your message is a central point - of all people, why should Real - or Apple - which contribute absolutely nothing to the artist - profit from enabling piracy7

[twocentz]

Two things:

1) You assume the market of people who want to collect hard copies of movies is large enough for Apple to want to enter. It isn't. Most people are content to watch a movie once and be done with it. (The exception is parents of small children who schlep Shrek everywhere they go to keep the kid entertained.)

2) DVDs are soo '00s. The future of digital content (the present, in fact) is a move towards being able to watch anything anytime anywhere -- call it a Great Tivo in the Sky. We won't need no stinkin' DVDs.

[twocentz]

Two things:

1) You assume the market of people who want to collect hard copies of movies is large enough for Apple to want to enter. It isn't. Most people are content to watch a movie once and be done with it. (The exception is parents of small children who schlep Shrek everywhere they go to keep the kid entertained.)

2) DVDs are soo '00s. The future of digital content (the present, in fact) is a move towards being able to watch anything anytime anywhere -- call it a Great Tivo in the Sky. We won't need no stinkin' DVDs.

[albeat99]

Two problems with this scenario:

1. I do not need any more DRM in my life.

2. iTunes is already suffering from a massive case of feature bloat. Why can't it just be a nice music management program, instead of Apple's bloated Swiss army knife?

[jreuter]

Ultimately, who cares. There are plenty of free DVD rippers that are easy to use and allow portability to many different codecs, and therefore, devices. Granted, they're not legal in all locations thanks to legislative idiocy and lobbyists (think DMCA), but at some point, people just don't care, especially if they're ripping material they have purchased and are therefore not stealing. So who cares if the big players that want to lock everyone into restrictive approaches offer this or not.

[dpetrosky]

This may not be coming to iTunes any time soon but the only reason would be because of the legal threat/anger of the studios. It would have NOTHING to do with video purchases on itunes. We have already played this game with the iPod! To get people to purchase iPods you had to give them an inexpensive way to get a lot of content for them. So "RIP MIX BURN". The same is true with the AppleTV and more media rich iPods. You need a large number of consumers with the devices and then it is easy to sell them content. So adding DVD ripping, would just make AppleTV that much more valuable for it's target audience.

Once millions of AppleTV's are in home theaters, you would see a growing number of people who rather just purchase the movie ready to go instead of having to go out and purchase it and then rip it. Apple sells more hardware, more hardware equates to more online sales.

Because trust me! Just like the CD is not hurting iTunes sales the DVD will not hurt ether. IMHO

[dylan214u]

I think it may have more to do with studios that is creating the content and what it might do to sales. Apple needs the studios to sign on before anything else.

[MonkeyTrainer]

At this point in time, Apple won't go a single step in that direction. If they upset the film companies, the film companies say no more legal sales/rentals through the iStore for you. Look at music: Apple is ready and waiting to sell every song without DRM, but the record companies won't allow it because that's one of the few advantages they can provide for Apple's competitors, and the record companies desperately want Apple's negotiating position weakened.

I think it would be great for all concerned because it will create less distinction for customers between Disc sales and file sales - everything winds up a freely playable file in iTunes. As long as there is a clear distinction between the two after ripping, people will keep comparing them and seeing that DRM'ed file purchases are insanely inferior.