How smoking can ruin your Mac

I have nothing against smoking, save for the difficult odor that emanates from every part, breath, and piece of clothing belonging to a smoker. I could no more live with a smoker than I could live with a third ear perched off the end of my nose.

However, I am embalmed in a curious sympathy after reading a report from The Consumerist concerning two Mac users whose AppleCare warranties appear to have been voided due to the presence of cigarette smoke in their homes.

One, named Derek, recounts the tale of his overheating black MacBook. He took it into the Apple store in Jordan Creek, West Des Moines.

He told The Consumerist: "Today, April, 28, 2008, the Apple store called and informed me that due to the computer having been used in a house where there was smoking, that has voided the warranty and they refuse to work on the machine, due to 'health risks of secondhand smoke.'"

He continued: "Nowhere in your AppleCare terms of service can I find anything mentioning being used in a smoking environment as voiding the warranty."

Will a Marlboro Lights habit makes this cute thing inoperable?

(Credit: CC Galaygobi/Flickr)

Derek's resulting appeal to the office of Steve Jobs bore him no joy, so he resorted to blowing some compressed air at the machine, leading it to restart its wondrous functions.

Then along came Ruth, who took her son's iMac to an authorized repair center. After five days, they apparently told her they couldn't work on it because it was contaminated with cigarette smoke and was therefore a bio-hazard.

When Ruth appealed to Jobs' office, she said she was told by someone named Dena that nicotine was on OSHA's list of hazardous substances.

However, as she wisely pointed out to The Consumerist: "OSHA also lists calcium carbonate (found in calcium tablets), isopropyl alcohol (used to clean wounds), chlorine (used in swimming pools), hydrogen peroxide (also used to clean wounds), sucrose (a sugar), talc (as in powder), etc... as hazardous substances."

One final appeal to Ruth's local Apple store failed, as she was allegedly told that tar from cigarette smoke had made it uneconomical to even attempt a repair. Ruth claims that only one person in her household smokes.

So now might I hand this distinctly painful issue over you, the technically brilliant reader. Perhaps you are even an employee of Apple and have stumbled upon this page in search of a little light relief.

What is the science of all this? And what might be the appropriate commercial response? Should Apple place a clear disclaimer referring to secondhand smoke in the AppleCare terms? Or should Microsoft make a new Laptop Hunter ad in which a very attractive, happy person says, "I'm not cool enough and I smoke, so I would never be able to get a Mac fixed"?

[nate2551]

I've never smoked and I am not around people who smoke but this is just ridiculous. I'm an Apple fan but this is just ridiculous. Apple is being stingy.

[sharmajunior]

Sounds like 2 people going back to Windows...

It's time for Applecare Reform! Write your Apple Representative and demand reform! No more "existing conditions" and no more "disqualifications of Insurance". The time is now fellow "CPU-Baggers".

[Mergatroid Mania]

I am of two minds concerning this. I have worked in an electronic repair shop for 20 years, and in the industry for 25 years.<br /><br />I've seen it all. I've seen machines so contaminated with grain dust that they caused me a severe allergic reaction. I've seen video game consoles that have had animals or toddlers pee on them. I have seen units with beer spilled in them, coke and just about every other kind of liquid. I've seen machines with dead mice and insects in them. We've had machines with live cockroaches in them, not to mention spiders. Machines with mouse droppings. Heck, recently I worked on a 26" LCD TV where the owner told me it was his kids' TV and they missed it because they were real sick. Needless I caught whatever germs they left on it and was sick for two weeks.<br /><br />Now to the point. I have worked on monitors, TVs, copiers, game consoles, computers, laptops and just about everything else that was so covered my tar from smoking that it disgusted me to even touch it. However, being a professional, I put some rubber gloves on, repaired the problem circuit, and then cleaned all the tar off of the machines (inside and out) so that the customer was impressed with our service. I have told several of them that a thick enough layer of this tar might cause parts to operate warmer than they should be. However, I have never voided anyone's warranty (and it was and still is my decision to make).<br />OK, I hate to start a flame war here, I really don't have anything against Macs. However, I really hate Apple. I think they are a snobby company for snobby people. They are always "my way or the high way" and "we'll tell you what's good for you" and "if we want your opinion we'll give it to you" (sorry Mac fans). I started hating them when they sold their Macs without a keyboard, and charged extra for them. They're excuse was "You don't need a keyboard to use a Mac". That was back when the Commodore Amiga was failing because of poor management at Commodore, and I sold my Amiga and had a choice to make: PC or Mac. Well, it was Apple itself that convinced me to go with PC.<br />This is just one more thing on top of a large pile of crap that is Apple.<br />I challenge those technicians to prove they are professional in any way, and not the elitist snobs I think they are.<br />I have a little news for them too. There is no second hand smoke in those machines. It's all gone. In case they don't have the education to know it, smoke is a gas and gas dissipates. Therefore there is no "second hand smoke" in these machines, and that makes you Apple techs either stupid or liars (I'll let you decide which one).<br /><br />As for the company itself, I think these people should contact some lawyers. The company obviously is ONLY INTERESTED IN "My way or the Highway" ONCE AGAIN! The person these people talked to was most likely not a tech, technologist or engineer and would have no clue how cigarette tar effects electronics. Their poor excuse that nicotine is on the harmful substance list is just that, an excuse. A simple pair of rubber gloves solves that problem.<br /><br />What we have here is snobby Apple techs, most likely also snobby non-smokers (or as I like to call them extremest non-smokers) who all work for an elitist snobby Apple company all collectively sticking their noses in the air because they're too good to help a loyal customer. I hope the customers in question went out and bought a PC.<br /><br />This is why I will never in my life purchase an Apple product. If Steve Jobs invented a machine that would allow people to live forever, I would choose to die of old age rather than purchase anything from Apple.

[kojacked]

Mergatroid Mania: <br /> <br />Dude! That was epic! I couldn't agree with you more.

[mnhthegreat]

@ Megatroid Mania: You just made my day! Awesome and very true!

[steve5200]

Mergatroid Mania, you are my new hero.

[ckh1272]

@Mergatroid Mania--I see your point on the first part of the post. It is completely your decision to do those repairs, as well as your time and money. Do you cover this under a warranty?? Obviously, if it's out of warranty, you charge them right?? Whether you fix it or not is not the real issue here. As any decent serviceman would do, you diagnose, offer the solution and hopefully charge accordingly. It is matter of whether the customer should take some responsibility for smoking around their equipment and not keeping it clean. However, the second part completely reveals your bias. It's easy to get the sheep to agree with you, but this situation is not unique to Apple and you should know that. All major electronics brands have similar criteria regarding these issues, but somehow singling out Apple is easier and more convenient, because just by mentioning "Apple" in this article got CNET FOUR pages of hits, just since yesterday. Think that would have happened if this were about Dell, HP, or Sony?? I somehow doubt it.

[ckh1272]

@Mergatroid Mania--I will say one more thing regarding this article. If Apple did tell them they wouldn't fix it because of second hand smoke, that is flat out retarded on their part. Somehow though, I get the feeling that there is more to this than is being revealed.

[pjhenry1216]

@ckh1272: If an appliance has its warranty voided from being in a smoking household, well, it should say that. Apple is breaking their own contracts by not offering support for someone who has not broken their terms of service.

[ckh1272]

@pjhenry1216--Maybe you should read the terms then. They all have their vagaries. Like I said before, there is more to this story than what is being said here. If some idiot from Apple actually said that, they should be fired. However, we all know that there are two sides to every story, so time will tell on this one.

[shiningdevil]

Oh my God, Apple. Oh my God. *facepalm*

[Random_Walk]

I'm thinking that most other OEMs are pretty similar, depending. If you've ever seen some of the worst cases of tar buildup, it's pretty easy to tell how it died.

[Mergatroid Mania]

I disagree. Tar is not going to kill a machine unless there's a ton of it, and I've seen some pretty extreme cases.<br /><br />However, even if they did void the warranty, that's no reason to tell people it's going to cost more to repair than it's worth. These techs are so snobby that they have only ever worked on things in pristine condition. Well, I think it's time someone took them out into the real world to see how things really work. Cleaning cigarette tar off of electronics is not a difficult thing to do, unless your nose is stuck too far up in the air.

[jakemochas]

they always try to find excuses to not replace a perfectly valid piece of equipment

[Perry_Clease]

"they always try to find excuses to not replace a perfectly valid piece of equipment"<br /><br />ALWAYS! Please, we know of two incidents and while there may be more of them out there say that they ALWAYS find a way not repair/replace is a real big exaggeration.

[5k4k1dhtp]

@ Perry_Clease<br /><br />Ever heard of the 2005 iPod Nano class action lawsuit?

[MyRightEye]

No Nate, this is not at all ridiculous. As one that repairs Macs for a living, I have seen this several times. I now refuse to service Macs that are clogged with thick yellow tar. The smell takes days to leave my office, and you have to wear gloves. Forget it, they can go elsewhere.

[dacopper]

Thick yellow tar? Are you sure it's not your ear wax falling down somebody's keyboard? ;) That's just disgusting! Wash your ears mate! Seriously though, I'd imagine you'd have to smoke about 100 packs a day for the next year or 2 just to create this kind of concentration of nicotine tar. I'm guessing you're just speaking of your ignorance since you've no idea what tar is, do you? :)

[ittesi259]

Do you repair Macs under the AppleCare warranty and therefore its terms of service? If you do are you not required to honor those terms of service which do not have a clause voiding the warranty due to smoking? <br /> <br />Is Apple not violating a contract in this manner?

[protagonistic]

The two commentators to your reply would seem to be either clueless or smokers. My grandfather used to smoke a pipe and tar would definitely accrue from the smoke. I have come across the same thing in the past when fixing PC's. You can smell it as soon as the PC comes through the door.<br /><br />I don't see why this should be treated differently than any other form of user abuse. It is something you choose to do and as such the consequences are yours to bear. But Apple probably should make that clear in the agreement.

[No Man]

I've never repaired computers in a smoking environment, but I have repaired quite a few digital projectors from bars, and I can totally sympathize. The A/V company I worked for ended up creating a special service contract specifically for bars because of the damage the smoke did. Optics, LCD's, IC's, fans, filters... everything. The things looked and smelled like they had only barely survived a house fire. And while the quantity of smoke in a home is usually far less than a bar, the person smoking is also usually much closer to the computer, so the concentration of smoke in the immediate vicinity is probably about the same.<br /><br />At the same time, however, as I said, we created a special contract specifically for this situation. Apple would probably be wise to do the same with their AppleCare contracts.

[atomD21]

I've worked on a few PC's (not Macs, but largely the same guts) belonging to people that smoked. They were the nastiest machines I have ever worked on. The heatsinks and fans were all completely clogged with tar ridden dust that no amount of compressed air was going to fix. I had to almost completely disassemble everything to get it all cleaned, and the entire house stunk for a couple of days. I can understand not wanting to work on them, but unless it's specifically stated in the contract, Apple can't simply decide they don't feel like it because it's icky. Protaganistic, I agree that it should fall under user abuse, but it needs to be stated as such.

[Mergatroid Mania]

Snob, I work on products like this all the time. Afraid to get your hands dirty? Wah wah, it's smelly, I don't want to do it. If I was your boss I'd fire your butt. The customer is way more important than your sense of smell being offended.

[baconstang]

Smoke is why most recording studios ban smoking in the control rooms. Totally screws with switches and pots. <br />In a computer the optical drive and cooling components can be compromised. <br />If someone uses their computer and keeps an ashtray right next to it, chain smokes.... that'll do it.

[Perry_Clease]

"Is Apple not violating a contract in this manner?"<br /><br />No necessarily. If it goes to court we will find out, I doubt that the smokers will even take it further than they already have.

[Renegade Knight]

You better get that put into the warrantee. Otherwise I expect you or whoever else to fix my Mac.

There is your Apple Customer Experiance right there: "Forget it, they can go elsewhere." Thanks MyRightEye for clearing that up for us. <br /> <br />I am with Megatroid as my family and I have had very similar experiences with Apple and their product line and the support team?s attitude. I also saw a comment regarding if this was Dell. Well my Dell computers have always honored the warranty and replacement parts sent the next day and did not required to be returned. Dell accepted the fact that some customers are technical enough to handle the electronics.

[gerrrg]

FWIW, don't smoke.

[weegg]

I have no qualms with this. Smokers are not allowed (without bunny suits) and smoking is forbidden in server rooms (at least those workplaces that know better).

[baginaface]

One more reason I will never, ever buy a Mac.

[chabig83]

It would make more sense to say, "One more reason not to smoke".

[stiff_kitten]

Then you will never buy any computer. Every single computer manufacture has voids warranty from smoke damage. Not just cigarettes but damage caused by any natural and/or unnatural occurring smoke.

[viper396]

This is a stupid reason to start another Mac vs PC debate.

[atomD21]

Seriously, smoking around your computer is just about the same as wrapping it in a blanket and covering all the fans and vents. The thing can't breathe and will overheat after a while.

[Mergatroid Mania]

@stiff_kitten<br /><br />You're full of it buddy. I've been repairing computers for over 20 years, and I don't void warranties due to tar. The ONLY reason I would is if the tar caused a fan to quit working, and that has not happened in over 20 years. So, stop saying things like "Every single computer manufacture has voids warranty from smoke damage." because it's just not true. If you're not a tech working to repair these types of things, then maybe you should stick to talking about things you know.

[jakemochas]

owned haha

[Perry_Clease]

"I've been repairing computers for over 20 years, and I don't void warranties due to tar. "<br /><br />They didn't void the warranty, they refused to work on the Macs. Once again I ask the question. Did the smoker talk to a manager about the situation, or did he just walk out in a "huff"

[Lerianis3]

Sorry, but no, they don't, stiff_kitten. The last time something like this came up (a few years ago) it was HP who was trying this bull, and they got LAMBLASTED by the judge in the case, saying that there was absolutely no reason to make NON-FIRE smoke damage void the warranty.<br />He ruled immediately for the people who were suing HP, and HP was VERY lucky that the people in question just wanted their computer fixed.

[shinji257]

@Perry_Clease: Actually if you read the article again you will see the part where it specifically states that the warranty was void due to cigarette smoke.

[ChukchansiDan]

But.... if there is no documentation upon purchasing a mac that specifically tells you Apple will not attempt a repair... Aren't they legally obligated to fix it if it's still under warrant? Kinda like the sticker on a hard drive that says "Warranty void if removed"?

[TujuMaster]

The terms of the Apple Care warranty clearly state any "manufacturer's defect" or "wear and tear from normal operation." Smoke would be covered by insurance, not a warranty or an Apple Care.

[Mergatroid Mania]

It should be covered unless the tech can prove that the tar caused the computer to fail. If you have a bad hard drive, or a bad RAM chip, there's no way you can prove that was caused by the tar. You can't prove that the part would not have failed without the tar. The only exception would be a moving part that won't move because it's stuck.<br /><br />I would appreciate if the non techs would stop talking like they know all about it. If you don't repair this stuff, then you don't have a clue.

[lordmorgul]

@Mergatroid Mania: unless rather than being a tech that repairs them you're an engineer that designs them. Tar inside a computer can easily create extensive over-heating in localized areas due to build-up of dust. The over-heating does not necessarily leave any external signs of damage, yet could be the direct cause of failures. Therefore, you can argue that the dust caused the damage or the tar caused the damage, but either way the user subjected the machine to abnormal operating conditions due to their own behavior and choices.<br /><br />We've been pushing the edge with most portable computers and their limited heat dissipation, high-frequency processors and busses, and frankly designing for the conditions caused by even a very limited tar build-up is not reasonable. Apple and many other manufacturers know this and consider it to be abnormal; whether their warranties continue to cover it for fear of customer backlash, or whether they do not, is somewhat beside the point... the customer is damaging it and shortening its lifespan by the build-up of tar whether it fails in the short term or not. Even after cleaning the computer it may have residual effects from over-heating and later fail causing major repairs... and a company should not have to be responsible for that damage when they know what conditions contributed to the failure.<br /><br />Apple should revise their warranty to clearly state that smoke damage voids the warranty. If they do this there should be no argument a customer can make here; the computer is being damaged, they can choose to stop damaging it.

[Lerianis3]

Ah, but then you are going towards trying to regulate a person's CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT to do what they want in their own home.<br />People forget that: these things when they try to dictate what people do in their own homes (unless it DIRECTLY AFFECTS THE MACHINE (sing it with me)) is not allowed by law.<br />Smoke damage from cigarettes? I am sorry, but I have been in homes where people have smoked PACKS A DAY.... and guess what? No bigger problems cleaning their computers and other equipment than in a regular home.<br />It's a BS argument that Apple is trying to push here, and just another way for them to 'weasel out' of their warranty obligations. They are asking for a lawsuit here.

[FlyingGoat]

Lerianis3: Smoking does directly affect the machine and, more importantly, the time and effort needed to properly fix it. Read the descriptions of cleaning smoker's PCs above. The warranty does not cover cleaning tar residue from PCs. I suspect if the owners of the Macs Apple refuses to fix cleaned the residue from their computers themselves, Apple would be happy to repair them, though I could be wrong.

[Renegade Knight]

@TujuMaster <br /> <br />Exposure to smoke, dust, hair, and dander, is a hazard of normal operation. Ignoring that they would need to show the tar build up actually caused a problem. <br /> <br />Apple should honor the warranty unless they can show an external cause. Refusing to work on it merley means they didn't show any cause.

[macdannyk1_dotmac]

I agree with MyRightEye - I've seen many a Mac laptop which reeks of tobacco smoke on the outside and is literally clogged up with yellow tar which attracts dust like a magnet. I'll put some gloves on and have a go at it but it's usually too late, the excessive heat has done the damage.

[Mergatroid Mania]

Prove it. Unless the ports are literally clogged with tar, there is no proof supporting your statement. I would like to see pictures of these machines supposedly so clogged with tar that they raised the temp enough to kill the machine. You'd have to almost completely block all the vents, or jam the cooling fan. Unless you're saying your Apple Notebooks are so crappy they can't stand an increase in temperature of a few degrees.

[ckh1272]

@Mergatroid Mania--I think someone needs to step down from their horse for minute and think about someone other themselves . Just because build your own systems and will fix them doesn't mean that Acer, Apple, Dell, HP, Sony, etc. will. There are always going to be variables, but if you think that tar is the only issue, you are being either short sighted or flat out lying. I'm sorry, but if someone comes to me about their board frying and then I take it apart and see that everything has a lovely "brown and yellow" tint to it, my advice to them is to buy a new system. Here's the problem with your logic. You say to prove that smoking caused harm to the computer. I say disprove it because smoke is like dust and we all know that dust is an enemy to electronics and that is a fact. If you don't realize this, then maybe you are in the wrong business.

[Lerianis3]

ckh1272, it's called EXPERIENCE. Mergatroid doesn't need to step down from his 'high horse', because he is on it rightfully. If he, as I, have seen NO problems from tar buildup in computers...... then he is just stating his experience.<br />And no, tar is NOT like dust. The fact is that people keep on saying 'Cigarette tar gets in everything!' Well, I just helped someone move into a house where there were heavy smokers 6 months ago. AT FIRST there was a large smell of smoke.... but after opening all the windows and doing some REGULAR CLEANING.... the smoke smell disappeared... totally!

[ckh1272]

"by Lerianis3 November 21, 2009 11:36 AM PST<br />ckh1272, it's called EXPERIENCE. Mergatroid doesn't need to step down from his 'high horse', because he is on it rightfully. If he, as I, have seen NO problems from tar buildup in computers...... then he is just stating his experience.<br />And no, tar is NOT like dust. The fact is that people keep on saying 'Cigarette tar gets in everything!' Well, I just helped someone move into a house where there were heavy smokers 6 months ago. AT FIRST there was a large smell of smoke.... but after opening all the windows and doing some REGULAR CLEANING.... the smoke smell disappeared... totally!"<br /><br />@Lerianis3--You just made my point right there. CLEAN the stuff people before blaming the product. Rule that side out. Having said, none of know what really happened here as we are obviously only getting one side of the story. Also, maybe it would help to read up on what smoke CAN do to electronics in the long term.

[thedementedboy]

At Lerianis3:<br /><br />What are you talking about "Ah, but then you are going towards trying to regulate a person's CONSTITUTIONALLY GUARANTEED RIGHT to do what they want in their own home"<br /><br />This has absolutely NOTHING to do with it. Apple is simply saying they don't want to deal with computers that have been corroded with tar, although I think this is pretty stupid since I too have worked on computers from smoking environments, and it really isn't a big deal. They may stink a little bit, but when you love working on computers, WHO CARES?<br /><br />You're right, idiot, per the constitution, anybody can do whatever the hell they want in their home, and apple isn't trying to say you can't smoke in your home if you want to have your computer repaired by them. What they are saying is that they don't want to work on a computer if they think it has been AFFECTED. Big difference.<br /><br />I just love how so many dumb ***** get on here and try to sound smart by bringing up constitution and what not.<br /><br />Apple sucks, and anybody who actually knows and cares for computers will tell you that.

[MaggieRed]

Could be some legal challenges coming from this.

[jakemochas]

good people pay a lot of money for "instantly voided" warranties... apple will do whatever it can to make sure you don't walk out with a working product

[Perry_Clease]

"good people pay a lot of money for "instantly voided" warranties... apple will do whatever it can to make sure you don't walk out with a working product"<br /><br />That is a bald faced lie and you know it!

[Lerianis3]

Perrry, no, it is not a bald-faced lie. Apple is WORSE than HP when it comes to abiding by warranties. If they can find ANY REASON WHATSOEVER to void a warranty and make you purchase a new machine... they will do that.

[ckh1272]

@Lerianis3--The satisfaction ratings of Apple compared to HP tell a different story, but hey, whatever makes you feel better.

[Renegade Knight]

@Perry_Clease <br /> <br />Nope. That's what Dell did to me. I had a spill. Got some sticky keys out of it. Then the video went out on my Dell laptop. I sent it in. They said "Nope,Spill voids warranty" I said "check it, if the spill caused the video to go out, I'll pay, if not you cover it" " they didn't. <br /> <br /> I paid a local shop to look at it, and learned the spill was contained to the keys, The keys worked, thus there was no point of failure to spread. The spill wasn't an external cause, and the vide fell within the warranty. However Dell policy instantly voided my warranty on something that didn't cause the problem.

[bryan.teague]

It's my home it's not illegal and this is total ********. Unless there is something stating this when you buy the machine I don't see how it can be enforced legally. What next I can't have a beer within 25 feet of it.

[baginaface]

100% agreed!!!!!!!

[shuyin84]

if you knew how to take care of your electronic devices, you would know that cigarette smoke and electronics don't go together.Plus, if you read the apple care warranty, it clearly states that the warranty does not cover damage caused by smoke and fire, and what are the two main features of a cigarette but smoke and fire. So I guess your sorry out of luck. You should learn to treat your electronics with more care.

[protagonistic]

Actually most electronic equipment warranties are voided by abuse. It all depends on what is considered abuse. I used to repair mainframes years ago and smoking was never allowed on the floor. If someone wanted a smoke they had to go outside so the hazards of cigarette smoke to computers has been known about for years.

[Random_Walk]

throwing around large buckets of water is perfectly legal in your home as well, but good luck getting a warranty repair on a dripping wet television or computer. <br /><br />(...and yes, I smoke. Outside, on the deck - where it belongs).<br /><br />And yes, tar buildup is very real on computers, or any other surface for that matter. My old man was a two-pack-a-day kind of guy (before he eventually quit)... and I distinctly recall taking a razor blade to his CRT screen once a month just to get accumulated tar off of the thing.

[Deelron]

As long as you don't pour your beer into it, sure. Unfortunately you can't keep the smoke out and just to concur with those who fix them, its pretty obvious when you open a repair up if it's from a smoker or not, I personally don't care either way but anyone who has fixed one can tell the difference.

[Agrainofsalt]

Yes, you can drink your beer next to your computer. But, if you spit your beer on it you will void the warranty. So if you smoke next to your computer, don't exhale as it is pretty much the same as spitting your beer. It will just take longer to do damage.

[Mergatroid Mania]

Beer and cigarette smoke have completely different effects on electronics. It would take only one beer to ruin a computer, but it takes years of smoking to build up enough tar to raise the temp enough to damage electronics (unless they're really crappy electronics).<br /><br />Computers only have a one year warranty. I seriously doubt anyone could build up enough tar in one to kill it in a year.

[zMudvayne]

"It's my home it's not illegal and this is total **********. What's next I can't have a beer within 25 feet of it."<br /><br />Equal arguments could be made against you having a beer within 25 feet of your machine, yes. If your beer was close enough that you knocked it over and it splashed inside, that would be LIQUID DAMAGE due to USER NEGLIGENCE. Smoking in your home spreads into the machine regardless if you're 1 ft or 25 ft away. Furthermore, the legality of smoking or drinking is not in question. In the same regard to Lerianis 3, your "constitutional rights" do not cover you damaging a product and expecting it to be repaired because its "under warranty."<br /><br />I personally know of the resistance presented by Apple to perform under warranty repairs, and that's not right, but I've encountered this same resistance with every company... It costs to perform repairs and stores are taught to eliminate these costs. Apple is not alone in this and the fact of the matter is these people destroyed their machines through a negligent habit.

[killa08]

@ Mergatroid Mania <br />Applecare runs for 3/4yrs

[Renegade Knight]

@shuyin84 <br /> <br />By the terms you stated, Apple would cover the repair if it's not caused by smoke. Blaming smoke before you even examine the laptop is wrong.

[nuthouse-me]

I worked IT for a company a while back. One of our remote Laptop users brought in her computer because it was crashing before even getting to Windows. After a little digging found that her fan had stopped working and the computer over heated. Not thinking anything of it at the time this person was an in home smoker. I started to take the laptop apart. I was going to replace the fan and hope not to much damage had been done yet. I hadn't even finished popping the bottom off. Ash started porring out of the bottom. It was literly jam packed with ash. Every creves was solid and the fan finaly had no room to turn. The fan sucked all the ash in and packed it solid. I tried scraping it all out. and cleaning it with air. But there was to much damage. If the user hadn't been smoking this would not have happened. I wouldn't expect Apple to replace my laptop if I used it at the beach and sand got sucked in. This should be no diffrent. They caused there own damage!!!

[atomD21]

Was she using it as an ashtray? I've seen tar, but ash... wow.

[Mergatroid Mania]

I have seen this before, and it is a legitimate reason to void a warranty, however ash is quite different from tar.

[Lerianis3]

I am sorry, but there is no way that ash could get into the fans, unless this lady had her ashtray right where the intakes were.... no damned way!<br />If this woman truly had that much ash in the machine..... she was either running it while her house was burning down around her or she poured a whole cigarette tray worth of ash into the computer ON PURPOSE.

[bburn--2008]

This is complete BS! Apple should be ashamed and deserve a good beating in court on this one. There are toxic and chemical gases EVERYWHERE that are much worst for your health than tar on computer hardware. Give me a break, geez, people really are going nuts with this second had smoke kills business.<br /><br />And no I am not a smoker nor do I defend them. I just think this is total rubbish.

[ckh1272]

Since you don't smoke, then you don't have a clue as to how much exposure is involved. I used to work in the Pawn business for nine years and I can personally attest to the smoking issue. I can't tell how many laptops, TVs, Home Theater systems, etc. I have cleaned. After a good cleaning, it's amazing how silver colored laptop can turn to wonderful shade of nicotine yellowish/brown. The few I have had to take apart are a lesson in what not to do with your electronics. Smoke outside if you need to, but even a pack a day of smoking puts that lovely tint on your home products over time. God forbid if you are smoking more than cigarettes. If you don't keep them clean inside as well as outside, issues are going to happen. These articles are nothing but bait for fodder. The proof is in some the comments here. ("how dare Apple"). Look behind the spin people and use some common sense and you will find that this isn't as outrageous as you may think. The rules of lint, cat hair, dander, etc. around electronics also applies to smoking. There is no guarantee that things will go bad but they are at risk.

[amwoolner]

I too am one of the techs that has worked on computers with smoke damage from cigarettes, I can tell you that it is NOT rubbish and that smoking can totally wreck a computer (mac or PC). It's worse with laptops given the space constraints. What it does is leave a layer of sticky tar on the components inside. Normally dust doesn't "stick" to the components but the tar acts like glue to the dust. Over time that just acts as an insulator so the heat can not escape and it overheats... now, was this the cause of the problems in the two examples in the article? I don't know, but I don't think it's unreasonable for Apple to consider smoke damage from cigarettes as falling under the clause about smoke damage. That's kind of a no duh!

[protagonistic]

Yet another clueless person who has obviously never worked on computers belonging to heavy smokers. Such damage is completely avoidable and as such I see no reason it should be fixed at the manufactures expense.

[Mergatroid Mania]

The three of you are nuts. I work on these same types of products, and however disgusting they are you cannot prove that the tar built up enough to cause the product to fail unless it actually clogged up a moving part.<br /><br />I smoked for25 years, and I've been smoke free for 5. I know the ins and outs as well or better than anyone. You guys are full of crap.

[ckh1272]

@Mergatroid Mania--You know something? You are nuts. Ignore the whole "tar" factor for a minute and follow this equation. Smoke=Dust<br />Dust=Potential harm to a computer or any other electronic device.<br /><br />Point being, if you don't keep it clean, there are going to be problems. Why should a manufacturer honor a warranty if you are not properly maintaining your equipment, which includes keeping it clean? There are cleaning tips in every manual. Do you think they are there just for the "hey" of it? No, they are not.

[ckh1272]

@Mergatroid Mania--If you still think we are "nuts" check this out. Make sure you scroll down to the part that says "And in an effort to illustrate what we say about annual cleanings". Yes, sometimes they can be cleaned after the fact and they are no worse for the wear. However, expecting the warranty to be honored because someone did not take the necessary steps is like blaming WIndows for viruses, when 99% of the time it is user error. End of story.<br />http://www.thecomputerwizard.biz/photos.htm

[ckh1272]

@Mergatroid Mania--Also make sure that you scroll farther down to the "And Tobacco is just as bad for your computer as it is for you".

[Renegade Knight]

@ckh1272 <br /> <br />They honor the warranty becasue they gave one. If their computer broke because of a defect (that's what a warranty covers) you fix it and make your customer whole. You don't go "ewwww gross, it's got tar on it!" And send it back unless the tar was specificly the cause of the failure. <br /> <br />My experience though matches the "ewww gross" side of things and I've seen makers refuse to honor warrantys when I've spend the money to do what they would not do and show the cause wasn't what they presumed (as in I asked them to check and they fefused) it was.

[solitare_pax]

Since the hardware and technology between Macs &#38; PCs are about the same, wouldn't smoking around a typical PC create a similar toxic residue?<br /><br />What are out PC makers policies on this sort of thing - of course, you can get any old bum IT guy off the street to fix a PC for a beer and a pack of smokes, but still - is it an Apple only thing?

[amwoolner]

No it's not. PC's are susceptible to this as well. I did in home repairs, upgrades, etc. and saw many computers mac and PC that had gross insides from smoking. I would bet that there are stories people have about their PC not being covered by smoking damage, but Apple has the most comprehensive coverage in their Apple Care so that's probably why they're getting the press on this.

[Mergatroid Mania]

I work on warranty PCs all the time, and no we don't void peoples warranties due to tar. We repair the product, clean it up like new and send the impressed customer on their way.

[Renegade Knight]

@Mergatroid Mania <br /> <br />That's exactly what I'd love to see from the computer matkers these days.

[DragonWizard]

"Apple has the most comprehensive coverage in their Apple Care so that's probably why they're getting the press on this." NO IT ISN'T THE REASON!!! It is because the writer of this story is a hate monger and writes articles guaranteed to start flame wars.. It is why he does not mention PC problems from the same reason... This article is biased and this writer is DEFINITELY biased.. Boycott Hate Mongers like this guy and his articles.. It is the only way to stop seeing biased stuff here.. It is the only way to kill flame wars because of hate articles...

[dacopper]

The logic is simple. If there's nothing about hardware smelling like smoke in the warranty, you can't deny it. You can't blame poor quality of your product on some one's bad habits. Smoking being a second-hand hazard to techs is a bad argument also. There are more hazardous materials inside computers that they have to deal with on daily basis, so if to follow their logic, Macs can't be repaired period.

[TujuMaster]

It's not a quality issue, it's a warranty issue. Take out your computers warranty and show me where it says that your computer would be fixed if it got contaminated by your own misuse? Sorry, it's not going to happen.

[amwoolner]

Using logic as your opening remark is interesting since there is no logic in your post. First, unless you've opened a computer that has had smoke damage from cigarettes, please don't comment on the smell or health hazards. Disgusting is an understated way to describe the situation. Second, Mac's can be repaired but the rate of NEEDING to be repaired is so much less than PC's... and I'm not even a Mac fan; just a former tech that has no dog in the fight. I like them both for their particular uses.

[Seaspray0]

@amwoolner. "...the rate of NEEDING to be repaired is so much less than PC's". Total BS. <br /> <br />http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10400447-1.html <br />Who makes the most reliable laptops?

[redgeminipa]

@ Seaspray0<br /><br />That article doesn't hold merit. Square Trade warrants new and USED computers alike. There are far more USED computers being sold on eBay that have ST warranty coverage than new ones.

[Renegade Knight]

@TujuMaster <br /> <br />The warranty normally says external causes are not covered. That means tar has to have been a real and actual means to failure for the warranty to not cover a repair.

[DragonWizard]

Nobody ever heard of a mask and rubber surgical gloves.. Something they should be doing in the first place I would think.. No, it is just too much bother to fix something so they just reject it for any reason they can.. I bet if you offered them money they would fix it...

[SilentDaeth]

Utterly ridiculous. I grew up in a family of smokers and have been muckin around with comps since my Tandy and IIe, and have yet to see a tar buildup on any comp. Granted, smoking creates more dust and the comps get dustier, but a film of tar? No way. And if anyone working for apple isn't going to honor their warranty based on that, they better list it in the warranty. They think thats a problem, thats fine, but you better let the public you are selling it to know its a problem, or do what they paid you to do and fix the comp. And to MrRightEye, I won't tell you how to run your business, but, the smell of a burnt board or a fried PSU doesn't bother you?

[ckh1272]

You are in denial my friend. Maybe you clean your systems more than most people, but I have seen enough TV tubes turn brown over time (from not being kept clean). Seeing as how the old Tandy's were white, I promise that over time (and not that much time at that) they get a lovely yellow tint to them without being cleaned. Believing otherwise is absolute ignorance. If it has become a common issue for Apple or anyone else, then a clear policy explaining their stance is necessary and should be laid out up front like everything else regarding warranties.

[Renegade Knight]

Yes a film of tar. Like you I grew up in a family of smokers and didn't realize how bad I stank and how much tar was on things until I moved out and then came back for a visit. Talk about an eye opener.

[Kev50027]

Although this is insane, if you use your computer as an ash tray, you deserve sub-par treatment. If you smoke, use compressed air to clean out your laptop every once in a while, or deal with the consequences (along with the ugly teeth, crinkled skin, disgusting smell, and shorter life)

[dacopper]

I wonder if same treatment applies for people who use their laptops for beer mug coasters and nacho trays. I have to agree here though, you can't use your laptop as a trashcan and have it repaired every time spilled coke burs a circuit.

[ckh1272]

Exactly what I am trying to say. We have to use a little common sense here.

[Lerianis3]

Not all those things apply to people who smoke, KEv50027. I have a cousin up in West Virginia who smokes packs a day, has no ugly teeth, crinkled skin, disgusting smell, and he is on track according to his doctor to live to 100!<br />That is NOT true with everyone.... it isn't even true of 1/2 of smokers.

grrrrr nachos! why am i on this diet!

[Perry_Clease]

Let us get some confirmation of these stories before accepting a "report."

[stiff_kitten]

That is the biggest problem with The Consumist; anybody can say anything without any proof or citation, and if presented in a believable fashion it is taken at face value. In regards to the site itself there is no in house fact checking.

[Perry_Clease]

"That is the biggest problem with The Consumist; anybody can say anything without any proof or citation"<br /><br />I am not saying that it didn't happen, it may very well have.<br /><br />A question for the persons who couldn't get their Macs repaired after being denied. What did you do right then, did you ask to speak to a manager?

[stiff_kitten]

This is just now making the news? <br />An Apple Care Specialist told me about this nearly 10 years ago. <br /><br />And guess what? Every single computer manufacture has a similar warranty smoke damage void. It is not limited to just cigarette smoke, but any and all damage caused by smoke from any source.

[MrRetardo]

Wow! Really? Its kinda funny since I repair computers for a living. With Dell's warranty, it doesnt matter if you smoke around it, spill wax on it, drop it, run over it, or drop it in the river..... THEY REPLACE IT ALL!!! <br /><br />Maybe Apple's warranty just sucks??

[DragonWizard]

"Maybe Apple's warranty just sucks??" Maybe you shoul.d just quit believing every flame worthy7 word that comes from this hate monger in every story he writes...

[kevin_robert]

I repaired Macs for 4 years and smoked a pack a day during that entire time. I refused multiple repairs due to the build up caused by smoking. If you have never seen it, don't assume you know what you are talking about. I no longer work for Apple, but they are in no way legally responsible for the smoke build up you put into your machine. Smoking next to your machine does not void the warranty, and neither does drinking a glass of water. Think about it.

[Lerianis3]

Then you were breaking the law, kevin_robert. Most states do NOT allowed you to void warranties unless the behavior of the person in question was.... outrageous. Smoking in your own home = not outrageous behavior. Not in the slightest, and you could have been sued and THOSE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE WON if they would have wanted to be nasty.

[killa08]

@ Lerianis3 <br />like he said, think about it....smoking a cig next to your computer doesn't void it neither does drinking water by it. But if you spill that water on/inside te compter it will damage it and so will having your computer taking in all that smoke. Thats like having regular dust that is in the air in you computer or building a sand castle in it. Same dirt, just different amounts and origin.

[Renegade Knight]

Most warrantys cover defects. Tar isn't a defect, and a spill doesn't automaticly cause harm. If by chance the Tar did cause a failure then perhaps it's not covered by warranty. If it didn't, then Apple (and you in your Apple days) should have fixed the machine. <br /> <br />@killa08: <br />A spill may damage the machine. It may not. If it doesn't and the machine fails for other reasons. It's covered under warranty. Some makers have a policy that says "any spill will be cause for refusal" but unless the warranty says that (policy isn't the warranty) it may be covered. If the warrany does say that about the spill then you can get in a pissing match over a healthy sneeze and snotting all over your computer even if you clean it up.

[richardk32]

The beer may not be a good example - spill one into your Mac and you probably won't scoot under the AppleCare wire, just as you wouldn't if you dropped your Mac into a pool, chlorine or no chlorine. I do agree Apple should make it clearer that excessive internal build ups of any kind may be considered collateral damage. I sympathize with smokers, seeing how miserable, long, and unsuccessful withdrawal can be. But smokers are often in serious denial about how much their addiction affects their environs. My wife only smokes on the terrace, and yet the rooms nearest the door always smell, and cleaning the terrace table results in several yellow, sticky paper towels. Ditto the car, even though she hangs the cigarette out the open window and exhales out as well.

[Lerianis3]

I don't think so! If you were TRULY getting that much stuff off your furniture where your wife smokes.... it wasn't just from your wife. There had to have been DOZENS of smokers smoking there. I've cleaned stuff in homes where there were 4 or 5 smokers...... no 'yellow build up' on jack! Even the walls were THE SAME COLOR THEY WERE WHEN THE PEOPLE MOVED IN, contrary to what other people have said about places where smokers were.<br />No deterioration at all. Some people are drinking the Apple Kool-Aid here too much... and the drugs in it are beginning to have their effect.

[ckh1272]

@Lerianis3 --And you are drinking the denial kool aid. I moved into an apartment two years ago, where the previous tenant lived there for a year. Two people lived there and they both smoked. After I moved in there and started cleaning the walls, as well as everything else, they "magically" changed from off yellow to original white. That didn't happen by accident. There was a yellowish/brown tint on everything, and I do mean everything so don't go around spreading BS about smoke in a house just because you have some grudge against Apple. As I said before, time will tell what really happened to this person's computer.

[cigargod]

One of three things: there are more people smoking at that table, you do not clean the table but once a year, or the yellow sticky paper towels are not from the tar. By terrace you do mean outside right, if that is the case you are full of crap or there is something else you failed to mention.

[quirK]

Lerianis3:<br /><br />His wife, or your wife?<br />His house, or your house?<br />His terrace, or your terrace?<br /><br />Don't create your own reality-distortion bubble; you DO NOT know all there is to know about smoking after-effects.