Microsoft exec: Mac OS inspired Windows 7

Sometimes you take a wrong turning in life and, Wednesday, a slight concussion led my eyes to fall upon the pages of PCR.

It is a little more intelligent than my normal reading matter, but I am very grateful for its interview with Simon Aldous, Microsoft's partner group manager.

He was quoted, for example, as saying: "One of the things that people say an awful lot about the Apple Mac is that the OS is fantastic, that it's very graphical and easy to use."

Perfect harmony?

(Credit: CC Esparta/Flickr)

You're waiting for the punchline, right? You know, the one about how he was kidding.

Wait away because he continued: "What we've tried to do with Windows 7--whether it's traditional format or in a touch format--is create a Mac look and feel in terms of graphics."

I know that such words might cause some entrenched foot soldiers in both of the fanchildren camps to hoot, hiss, sigh and reach for the nearest farming implement.

However, isn't it rather charming to hear someone admit that a competitor's product isn't overly expensive or overly pretentious, but that it has something about it that is good and that real people who buy real products actually appreciate?

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

hahahahah!!!!!!!
nuff said

[Mr. Dee]

The fact that the modern graphical user interface as we know it from both Apple and Microsoft are based on technology invented in the 70's by XEROX Parc, I don't see the point of your hahahahaha. Apple did the biggest last minute photo copying in August when they revealed similar features to Alt-tab Aero Live Previews in the OS X Snow Leopard Finder. Instead of fixing the bugs, they ended releasing an operating system, the 6th time around that could delete your your personal data.

[shellcodes_coder]

It's inaccurate: Microsoft Disowns Manager For Suggesting That A Mac OS Inspired Windows 7: http://gizmodo.com/5402782/microsoft-disowns-manager-for-suggesting-that-a-mac-os-inspired-windows-7

[kojacked]

Big deal. This wanna-be Balmer big shot runs the Partner network not the Windows group. The latter of course are a bit pissed at his version of THEIR work: http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windows7/archive/2009/11/11/how-we-really-designed-the-look-and-feel-of-windows-7.aspx

I wonder if this guy is packing up his office yet? What and abolute tool. Just make s... up because you are such a Microsoft bigwig.

[jezzali]

@ Mr. Dee:

When are you going to give it up Andre ? Everybody knows who you're shilling for (except topgunb2 maybe... but then again maybe topgunb2 is you). Your posts are just one predictable yawn after another. Yes, everybody knows where the laptop came from and yet you continue on as if this doesn't completely undermine whatever little pretense at credibility your posts ever had in the first place.

[solitare_pax]

Mr. Dee is correct - Xerox had a sort of skunkworks that devised the first known graphic interface on a computer. A group of Apple folks saw it on a tour of some sort, and it inspired them to create their own version. Xerox, for whatever reason, never brought their version to market.

But then, Western Union Telegraph didn't buy up the rights for the telephone when they had the chance.

Apple did get a head start, and between their own team, and outside programmers who created a number of common features - like having multiple windows open on a screen - Mac has had an excellent operating system and user interface.

The question is, will Windows 7 surpass it - or merely equal Vista? Time will tell.

[Super2online]

Once again our good friend Chris is blabbering on about something that has no basis in truth whatsoever. Read this article, and then come back and give Chris a mouth full. At least that's what I would do. Chris, next time try getting up off your can and doing a little research before you believe every piece of trash you read.

http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/windows7/archive/2009/11/11/how-we-really-designed-the-look-and-feel-of-windows-7.aspx

[Chao_Sama]

News flash. "Microsoft Exec was Fired Today"

[Random_Walk]

The bit about Xerox PARC inventing the UI is true (IIRC, the original lived on for years after being open-sourced, as X11R6, then X11. Only in recent years did it convert to XOrg).

After that, the similarities ended.

I admire the spin that was taken, though. :)

[Seaspray0]

The exec wasn't wrong. OSX is a good OS, and you can clearly see that microsoft was inspired by it. Microsoft also added a few things of their own. The result has been phenominal sales.

[snigglepop]

Apple didn't so much copy the the technology from Xerox PARC, they incorporated it. The bulk of the team that invented it became part of Apple, with Xerox's blessing. So, while it may have been invented outside the walls of Apple, the actual inventors became Apple employees and continued their work, under a company with the will to bring it to market.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

see the UI MS fans go gaga over wasn't entirely created by MS.

[Random_Walk]

I'm waiting for that one myself...

(After seeing the first RC, I really wasn't surprised - though I initially pegged it as taking its, err, 'inspiration' from KDE).

[murbo]

hey Mr. Pee, you should read that book as well.. yes Xerox invented the technology, and gave it away for free actually (what a bunch of morons). but at the same time what people are talking about isn't 70s xerox UI. that is far behind what is available today. UI's and the technology behind them evolved in 40 years dude, get over it.

----flame war alert-----
i have no idea what you are talking about when you say alt-tab live previews, macs had expose since ... like forever.
and for the last ***** time, 10.6 was reworked from ground up to use multi core systems with the gpu's, and the UI stayed almost the same from 10.5 even 10.4 because it was already simple and fast and efficient, while the last 3 versions of windose changed nothing but the ui dramatically since its crap everytime they design it.. hell ms is still trying to get the look of 10.4 and doing a **** poor job at it. you were paying ms 300 bucks for every version of windows which were nothing more than eyecandy theme packs...
i guess you can't delete your personal data in windows... wow... that must be something, ms finally got windose to be idiotproof... not
fyi- i have to utilize macs, windows, and linux pc's for my work which includes coding, cg, and simulations. im not saying one is better than the other since they are all crap in my opinion, but im sick of your dumass comments which is why i wrote all this. thanks for pissing me off at 1am at night, i owe you one...
BTW, KDE comment is totally correct. and 7's UI is fast, but visually its still crap.
----flame war alert-----

"However, isn't it rather charming to hear someone admit that a competitor's product isn't overly expensive or overly pretentious, but that it has something about it that is good and that real people who buy real products actually appreciate?"
Chris, thank you, honestly. its about time someone pointed this out. each OS has its strengths, as much as it hurts to say even windows has it strengths i will admit to that. and people will buy them for their strengths and avoid them for their weaknesses... in other words, whatever floats your boat.

[ckh1272]

"by topgunb2 November 11, 2009 10:28 PM PST
@dumbo such a long post, you are taking news.com too seriously, this place is to post flaming posts nothing more!"

@topgunb2--As one of its biggest contributors, you ought to know.

[topgunb2]

@ckh1272 , me a biggest contributer, again a misinformed post, as usual

[sharmajunior]

Well the main OSX GUI wasn't created by Apple it self either.

[tekwiz4u]

This ***** did not just say that. Steve Ballmer is going to look this guy up and call him personally to thank him....then ask him to put everything he owns in a cardboard box.

[Splashes]

Heh. I'm sure you're right. That makes this episode even more amusing.

I'm lovin' it.

[bonesbautista]

Que up the interface attorneys, Mr. Jobs!

[MPB-G17]

lol poor guy he is just saying what everyone was thinking.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

Apple is flattered :)

[Perry_Clease]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery :)

[topgunb2]

and looser is getting a dollar for each post

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Gold_Storm_Mac:

Do you have anything actually of interest or value to add to the story- or are you just trolling? Based upon your comments, the second appears to be the case.

[ikramerica--2008]

Ha, trolling. Good one, Vega...

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

http://www.zdnet.com.au/insight/software/soa/Is-it-Windows-7-or-KDE-4-/0,139023769,339294810,00.htm?omnRef=http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104689
not just apple

[frobots]

Sure Apple takes ideias from other companies... But Microsoft always copies Apple.

[BigGuns149]

They don't copy exclusively from Apple, but there is no question that Microsoft's ideas are often heavily influenced by Apple.

[Splashes]

The difference between Apple and Microsoft is this:

Apple sees an idea sitting on the shelf at Xerox PARC, recognizes the potential that everyone else missed, and brings it to market.

Microsoft sees an idea that is in a currently successful product and says, "We'll do THAT!"

Neither strategy is unethical. And when one doesn't have any good ideas, it makes sense to borrow from those who do. But only one of these strategies is worthy of admiration. And that's why Apple gets all the free press -- they've earned it.

[abcd9009]

@frobots

Here's the biggest difference between Microsoft and Apple.
Apple copies GUI from Xerox and after re-packaging and re-branding sells it to only a handful of people who can afford their products (mostly in the US).
Microsoft on the other hand, sure copies (and admits that it's copying), but the key difference is it provides an OS which everyone in the world can afford and use.

Windows is the bread and butter for millions of small businesses around the world. Tomorrow if Mac is out of the market it would have little to no impact on the economy. But if Windows is out of the market, the entire IT economy will collapse because all hardware (Dell, HP, Sony, Acer...) and software companies (Symantec, McAfee, Trend Micro... just to name a few anti-virus companies) rely on Windows sales. Don't forget the enterprise sales which would also be affected.

Sure ethically both are wrong, but morally speaking I would rather be on Microsoft's side where at least they are copying for something good - fulfilling Gates' dream of having one computer for everyone.

Let Apple create cheap computers which people and Africa and Asia can afford and then we'll talk about who's copying whom.

[Renegade Knight]

Microsoft invented the dock and discarded the idea. Apple may or may not have been aware of that when they added their own dock.

I'm sure if you dig, you would find that Apple has adopted more than a few "MS ideas".

It keeps both OS's competative.

[Renegade Knight]

Microsoft invented the dock and discarded the idea. Apple may or may not have been aware of that when they added their own dock.

I'm sure if you dig, you would find that Apple has adopted more than a few "MS ideas".

It keeps both OS's competative.

@Splashes

Xerox was worthy for inventing it.
Apple was worthy for recognizing the potential.
MS was worthy for being flexable enough to change when they need to change.

If you could roll all of those up into cone company they would do very well indeed.

None of these companies is perfectly admirable.

[Random_Walk]

"Microsoft invented the dock and discarded the idea. Apple may or may not have been aware of that when they added their own dock. "

Err, the "dock" has been present in WindowMaker since it came into existence, and was present as an addon in SunOS/Solaris' CDE (Common Desktop Environment) since the 1990s (CDE itself came about in 1993).

[nouser]

What this is the first you have realized that MS had been copying stuff (mostly unsuccessfully) for their entire life?

[jacksoncapper]

No, the report is about Microsoft admitting to being inspired by Mac OS. If I were running a software company, of course I would copy the best parts of other products. It's either providing my customers with the best, or maintain my ego and offer a poor product. I hope they all copy each other so we all reap the benefits of each company's innovations.

[frobots]

@jacksoncapper: The point is that they (Microsoft) can never come out with the "best" by themselves, they always have to imitate Apple to a ridiculous extent. They are always behind.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@nouser:

Good points you bring up. I understand that Apple invented the cell phone, AND the PDA as well. :)

[deniceels]

oh yea, and MP3 player as well... good on them. (Did I forget, they also introduce using GSM network on their phone)

[gwailo247]

Oh, no. My self esteem is so wrapped up in my operating system, any criticism of it is a criticism of me. Boo hoo. I'm going to cry now.

[istill316]

Given, he didn't say that MS took anything other than inspiration from Apple. He could very easily meant a "Mac" look and feel is one that is "very graphical and easy to use", from his previous sentence. In which case, he has rather nice rhetoric. This is still a compliment to Apple, but not an admission of theft.

[Splashes]

I'm an Apple fanboie, but I never accuse Microsoft of stealing. It is impossible for anyone to design anything in a vacuum -- we're all influenced by our experience. So all design is derivative, even Apple's. And to me, it's good sign that Microsoft recognizes they have something to learn from Apple -- that shows a bit of humility, which is appropriate given their recent stumbles. So maybe there's hope for Microsoft after all.

The main difference between the two companies, as I explained in a comment above, is that Apple is much better at recognizing the potential of a currently under-appreciated idea or technology, while Microsoft only borrows ideas that have already been proven in the marketplace. That doesn't make Microsoft bad or unethical -- just different, and somewhat less worthy of admiration, IMHO.

[Jive Turkey]

Well that explains why the Win7 GUI is so s#!^.
I would also like to add that the Mac OS is lame, it's excessively graphical and hard to use.

[ballmerisanape]

Yes. The command-line is way easier. Good thing you can boot right into single user mode on the Mac and bypass all of the fluff... it's like a time warp right into the 80s! It's even better if you turn on your black light so your unicorn posters can glow in the background!!

[SteveMcQwark]

Oh, the woe of those unaccustomed to change.

[Renderman2009]

Apple has the ability to create gadgets and softwares that are very intuitive and natural to use. On the PC, as long as it works - it's good enough. On the Mac, softwares are polished with usability and common sense.

Remember - technology has to adapt to man, man shouldn't adapt to technology.

[Renderman2009]

I forgot to mentioned: it is this ease-of-use and intuitive nature of Apple that repels a lot of geeks and nerds - they think that Mac users are dummies. They like things complicated, probably because their job depends on it.

[Random_Walk]

"Good thing you can boot right into single user mode on the Mac and bypass all of the fluff..."

-and-

"it is this ease-of-use and intuitive nature of Apple that repels a lot of geeks and nerds"

You gents do realize that a simple icon pointing to Applications -> Utilities -> Terminal would fix that, right? :)

==

"They like things complicated, probably because their job depends on it."

Actually, I like simplicity, but I really like flexibility - it allows me to provide solutions for my employers at a far lower cost and in less time. I mean, there's a huge difference between spending five minutes on a spare server with /etc/ntp.conf and /etc/crontab, and spending $5-$10k for a Stratum 1 time service appliance (the latter being rather unnecessary for most applications if you know how to use a command-line).

[Vegaman_Dan]

@ballmerisanape:

" Good thing you can boot right into single user mode on the Mac and bypass all of the fluff..."

Unfortunately doing so also bypasses any and all security built into the OS. I can walk up to a Mac and totally own the system in less than a minute and that includes changing the admin password, create extra accounts, open ports in the firewall and make it completely accessable for future use- all without your knowledge simply by walking up to the machine and hitting the power button.

That's a huge security risk right there.

[Renegade Knight]

@ Renderman2009

"Apple has the ability to create gadgets and softwares that are very intuitive and natural to use"

Some things are. Some things aren't. Same as the Windows world. When I needed to burn a Data CD the Apple way was not intuitive at all. Meanwhile under Vista I got it figured out and working. I had used neither method before.

Intuitive means you can figure out how to do something without too much work. That hasn't been the case with my swithc to the Mac OS. There are a lot of things that are not at all obvious.

[shycelticwitch]

@ballmerisanape:

" Good thing you can boot right into single user mode on the Mac and bypass all of the fluff..."

Unfortunately doing so also bypasses any and all security built into the OS. I can walk up to a Mac and totally own the system in less than a minute and that includes changing the admin password, create extra accounts, open ports in the firewall and make it completely accessable for future use- all without your knowledge simply by walking up to the machine and hitting the power button.

That's a huge security risk right there.

Dan... this is a copy and paste that you've posted at least a dozen times before... and it's wrong... and I have to wonder why you keep spouting facts about Apple that have no source to back it up...

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1352

[Perry_Clease]

As a big Apple FanMan I don't have a problem with his statement. We all have been inspired by others, our parents, our teachers, our peers. I often go to the art museum for inspiration or take walks in one of our local nature preserves.

Steve Jobs once said in a speech:

"I decided to take a calligraphy class to learn how to do this. I learned about serif and san serif typefaces, about varying the amount of space between different letter combinations, about what makes great typography great. It was beautiful, historical, artistically subtle in a way that science can't capture, and I found it fascinating.

None of this had even a hope of any practical application in my life. But ten years later, when we were designing the first Macintosh computer, it all came back to me. And we designed it all into the Mac. It was the first computer with beautiful typography. If I had never dropped in on that single course in college, the Mac would have never had multiple typefaces or proportionally spaced fonts. And since Windows just copied the Mac, its likely that no personal computer would have them. If I had never dropped out, I would have never dropped in on this calligraphy class, and personal computers might not have the wonderful typography that they do. Of course it was impossible to connect the dots looking forward when I was in college. But it was very, very clear looking backwards ten years later."

Read the entire speech at http://news-service.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html

[Splashes]

Or watch the entire speech here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1R-jKKp3NA

(~15 mins)

[Renegade Knight]

Nice. It's amazing how some things come together.

[mike.gw]

This is so funny. Windows fans hate Mac users because they view them as uppity. But anyone who was around in the mid 80s knows that Intel loving MIS guys were in love with the IBM PC. They were already running IBM mainframes in corporations, and when the PC came along, boy did they love Intel. And DOS. When the Motorola Mac came along, IBM fans felt the Mac was a TOY, and not a serious business computer like the IBM PC. So Macs were banned from corporations by the Intel MIS guys. But Mac users know that Apple has been "inspiring" PC/Intel users for decades now. Mac users aren't being uppity or cultish. But they have a well deserved right to toss a few "told you so" around. The computer that was disregarded as nothing more than a toy, has been one of the biggest drivers of user interface design for 25 years. And it's nice to hear a Microsoft engineer not be afraid to admit where their inspiration comes from. Mac users have known as much for a quarter of a century now.

[Splashes]

Well said!

[ballmerisanape]

The funny thing is.. my "toy" can get through my VPN and access my Exchange account natively.. no 3rd party apps needed.. (it's a Mac.. ). You can't do that with Windows.. and it is supposed to be the "business OS"...

[mike.gw]

Think about it... what user interfaces have evolved to the degree of the computer GUI? We just had Daylight Savings Time, and except for the most expensive devices in my home, I had to go around and reset the stove, microwave, conventional clocks, and suprisingly, my $57,000 car! And the process for all of these changes would warm the hearts of all those old MVS/OS, JCL, DOS, Unix command line loving programmers. Yes, it works, but it's as cryptic and unfriendly as can be, which is why the car is still an hour behind! Without the "toyish" Mac interface constantly pushing Dos, and then Windows design, we'd still be using the DOS command line to launch programs like WordPerfect. We'd still have keyboard templates (remember those, old guys? big business back then!) to help us remember all the keyboard commands to our various software. Nothing learned in one program would carry over to a new program. Each new software package would be like starting from scratch. How many people do you think would try a personal computer and all the software they currently use, if not for the familiarity afforded by the common toolsets of the GUI?

Bill Gates suckered some dude into selling him DOS for $50,000, while cooking a multi-million dollar deal with IBM to supply a OS for the pending IBM PC. That makes Gates a super salesman, but hardly an innovator! Windows 1.0 sucked, and so did 2.0. I wonder how many young guys realize that Microsoft PAID APPLE to license elements of the Macintosh GUI? That's right! Or that the first graphical versions of business software debuted on the Mac? Microsoft Word and Excel? Mac! They were still DOS/character based on the PC side. PowerPoint wasn't even developed by Microsoft. A small company developed PowerPoint for the Mac, and Microsoft bought the product and eventually launched a Windows version. TrueType fonts? Developed by Apple, licensed by Microsoft. So with some of Microsoft's biggest cash cows, $$$ changed hands from Microsoft to innovative people doing innovative things in the Mac world.

I'm an old guy now. 43. Got my start selling PCs in REAL computer stores back in 1984. They were business centers back then (not Best Buys!) ComputerLand, Computer Factory, Computer Depot, etc. I sold and configured IBM, Compaq, Apple for our customers. Us old guys are happy for Apple because we witnessed who actually created what, and we see Apple getting the credit that the old predjudiced IBM MIS guys had denied them.

[Random_Walk]

"The funny thing is.. my "toy" can get through my VPN and access my Exchange account natively.. no 3rd party apps needed.. (it's a Mac.. ). You can't do that with Windows.. and it is supposed to be the "business OS"..."

To be fair, you can set up a VPN now on Windows XP and newer (it's a bit arcane, but it can be done).

[Seaspray0]

@balmerisanape. Actually you can. Outlook express has the ability to connect to exchange. It's not as good as outlook when it comes to features, though. But a business OS is more than just mail. For instance, I can set the computer policies on all the corporate computers (thousands of settings), I can push applications to corporate computers from one central management console (I can remove them as well), features like this (and many more) allow IT departments to manage the entire computer infrastructure from top to bottom. A business class OS is also based on what kind of collaboration you can provide to your employees, and what it will cost to put all that into place. I'm not saying osx is a bad OS, I'm saying you can't manage it in a corporate environment.

[Random_Walk]

"I'm not saying osx is a bad OS, I'm saying you can't manage it in a corporate environment."

Err, you may want to brush up on UNIX there... you can do all that you stated and more without using a single Windows server. ;)

[Renegade Knight]

Broaden your horizons. Early Mac users were cultish and even now that Mac's rising in popularity the cultish side resents the unwashed masses joining their ranks. Meanwhile the reason most PC guys didn't like the mac was the lack of system control it gave you. You could not force a mac to do some things that were very easy on a PC. In other words Power Users were frustrated.

As for the entire concept of the PC side being lost to the command line. Nope. Too many people were working on GUI's for them to not break out one way or the other. Would windows look like it does now in a non Mac world? Probably not. Would it be pretty close? Yes. Besides Apple was a command line OS before their GUI work. They broke out anyway.

[mike.gw]

@Renegade Knight, true, no one can say for sure what might evolved in a Mac-less world, but as your 2nd paragraph seems to agree with, the Mac influence on Windows today is noticeable. Historically, it's significant. I was a computer science major in college back in 84, and I remember Mac users being excited about the new abilities the Mac afforded them. We had Atari and Commodore users to be cultish back then, and maybe even Apple II users, but the Mac was too new to develop a cult. But i distinctly remember loads of conversations about why the 8086 chip and then 80286 chip was so much better than the 68000. Systems guys were not interested in the Mac at all. That was where the cult resided... in those enclosed glass MIS centers. Now I can understand power users being frustrated with the early mac systems. But what percentage of users are power users? Less than 10%? How many people find low 1/4 mile times from sports cars essential to their daily commute? The Mac OS put significant accessable power in the hands of most people. Like the ads said, The Computer For The Rest Of Us. That didn't the cultish of us, but for those who were intimidated by the command line systems of the time. As such, Apple's done more than enough to "broaden our horizons".

[Bertbaby]

While we exchange thanks, Mac users should also thank Microsoft and Intel for the hardware platforms they run on as well.

[shycelticwitch]

@ Seaspray... you too, like Veggieman, are always throwing around "facts" that have no basis or reputable source. FYI... I have 32 Macs and 2 PCs running together on a network in a corporate office... with 100% stability. KW Media Group (founders of NAPP), have twice that many, also on a corporate network... with about 99% stability (I had a 90 day contract with them, and during that time only experienced one network issue that was resolved in less than 10 minutes.)

So your argument about Macs in the business world does not hold water. Try something else. Perhaps something you actually have EXPERIENCE with?

[cnet_x2000]

The Microsoft Exec is correct in stating what everyone does in practically every industry. - The innovation of products is basically copying existing products and making them better. Competion leads to innovation, without it, everything remains more or less stagnant. Bill Gates knew that when he saved Apple from bankruptcy.

[MPB-G17]

Yeah i guess i agree. Still their a line between copying and stealing intellectual property.

[navarone01]

I'm a OSX fanboy but you completely took this guy out of context. It may have an a compliment but it was fully backhanded. He said people like easy graphical interfaces, something OSX does well, WHAT WAS LEFT OFF was he also said "but we put that graphic interface on very stable vista core, and that the Mac platform isn't stable"

he implied OSX is a nothing more then a polished turd.

[ballmerisanape]

"and that the Mac platform isn't stable"

Even a die-hard MS shill cant say that and believe it. Everyone knows the Mac OS is rock-solid... every benchmark for multi-tasking and uptime says OS 10.xxx is the clear winner in the consumer OS market.

[MPB-G17]

Mac OS X is based on UNIX. You would have to be pretty stupid or really want to sell a product to call it unstable.

[topgunb2]

mpb you would be pretty stupid to say mac is stable,
youareanape, 5% knows mac is rock solid, rest of them are on windows

[MPB-G17]

@topgunb2

Obviously you have never used Mac OS X before.

[tmeesseman]

@topgunb2



You're a *****. First of all, Apple has 10% market share, not 5%. And that number is growing every day. Second, this has nothing to do with market share. It has to do with the FACT that UNIX is more stable. It has nothing even to do with Apple. UNIX is stable, and you're functionally retarded to deny that.

[Jeremy Chappell]

Err, what did you expect from a Microsoft employee? Doesn't make it true does it?

Next you'll be expecting Steve Jobs to be telling us how much he likes his Zune (no I don't really think he has one).

I wouldn't listen too hard when some company employee is talking about their competitors products.

[Seaspray0]

No, the mac platform isn't 100% stable. No operating system is. As for vulnerabilities, it's worse than windows.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10154662-83.html
The Macintosh and base Linux kernel operating systems have dominated the top spots for vulnerabilities by operating system over the past three years

http://i.gizmodo.com/256768/mac-os-x-less-secure-than-vista

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10199652-83.html?tag=mncol;posts
Safari hole exploited in seconds at security conference

http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10318943-245.html
Contrary to popular Mac fanboy belief, Macintosh is not more secure from a software standpoint than modern Windows

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/security-snow-leopard

[fhinner]

OK, I can crash any of the OS'es mentioned. Do this successfully every now and again with my Mac OS/x, Unix (Sun AIX and HP), Windows (Server, XP, Vista, 7) or Linux (Ubuntu, RedH, Suse aso.). It is Software and if it would have close to 99% stability it would be called Hardware.

I agree with some of what was said, I've been in this game for a long time and grew up with Apples. I admire Apple for making an idea feasible/usable (iPod, iPhone....aso.). At the end of the day I choose a Mac, because it allows me to do my work in the most efficient way, as quickly and uninterrupted (crashes/hangs) as possible to enjoy the great outdoors.

Make your choice and let other make theirs. This is not a religious discussion, it is a discussion about what purpose your use of technology has. What I read her is theoretical arguments about something "you" don't understand. Meaning what is my very personal need for technology and how I want to accomplish something.

[Renegade Knight]

@MPB-G17

I've used OS X.
I wish it were more stable.

[shycelticwitch]

by Seaspray0 November 12, 2009 7:24 AM PST
No, the mac platform isn't 100% stable. No operating system is. As for vulnerabilities, it's worse than windows.

"Can you show me where anyone above commented that OS X is 100% stable?" How about reading what you're responding to first?"

And... do you spend your entire day searching for articles that show issues with OS X? I can GUARANTEE you will find three times as many of those articles about Windows issues... but I have far better things to do with my time. Perhaps someday you will too. Any job prospects lately?

[DemonDuck000]

I think both interfaces are over done. Sort of like going into a bathroom that has carpet on the floor around the toilet and little fragrant soaps in a shell dish with hand sized monogrammed towels that are too small to dry anything. You know, sort of like a woman's bathroom that is magically never really used for what it's supposed to be used for.

Way too much ornament and they both try to help you do what you need to do except usually they just end up getting in your way.

Only simpletons who are captivated by kaleidoscopic, flashing colors like either one.

[ballmerisanape]

I don't know.. Expose', spaces, having a real multiuser OS.... efficient use of application window space.. those have helped me tremendously. If you look back at earlier versions of Windows and OS 9.. those look cartoonish compared to what MS and Apple are doing.

[tektaktyks]

omg,sure mac is nice,but not for the price,now that windows is nice too apple have to come up with something new...

[cbscowards]

Yes, that's called "competition". Without it, it's very unlikely that OS X or Windows 7 would be nearly as nice as they are.

[shuyin84]

I would say mac is worth a few grand

[shycelticwitch]

@ tektaktyks... don't close your eyes... Apple innovates on a regular basis, and you might miss it. It's why they continue to survive with only 10% (give or take) of the market share.

[paulopmx]

If you check the history on both OSes, they actually copy each other. Only Microsoft has been willing to admit it, while Apple is all denial. Before anyone says anything, I use both OSes,

[tmeesseman]

Some fool working at MS doesn't represent the entire company. If you did your research, you'd plainly see that MS strongly denies this man's claims.

[shuyin84]

wat else are they gonna do, say that he's absolutely correct?! You are an absolute moron if you believe everything Microsoft tells you, seriously Microsoft had a PR guy all over that, like a fat kid on cake

[The_happy_switcher]

LOL--Someone's getting fired. I wonder how many seconds until this ends up in the next Apple commercial.

[websterphreaky]

Fortunately Microsoft DIDN'T COPY -

the Spinning Beach Ball of Wait n wait n wait n wait ........
the Buggy Weekly Updates that Kill applications.
the Many many many Security Updates. and Patches (3 times as many as Windows).
the Kernel Panics (enjoying that Snow Leopard dopes)
the lack of features like Ready Boost (With Windows Vista ReadyBoost, you can use non-volatile flash memory to expand system RAM).
[CNET editor's note: Offensive language deleted.]

[MPB-G17]

you have so exaggerated your comment. I don't think your telling the truth either. Have you even used Mac OS X 10.6?

[tmeesseman]

-I rarely see the beach ball. Yet, somehow, I wait on my Windows machine at work far more often.
-My updates aren't weekly, nor are they buggy. All the hoo-ha you see in the media is few and far between. I've never experienced any of the things I've seen in the news.
-Security updates don't come near as often as you claim... and since when it patching holes BEFORE they become an issue a bad thing? I suppose they could do like MS and just leave the holes open.
-I haven't seen a kernel panic since OS 10.3 - and especially not on SL.
-Windows lacks far more features than OS X does (like a GOOD backup utility, multitouch capabilities, or Spaces)

You're just another MS drone... making claims without any backbone to them.

[Perry_Clease]

"you have so exaggerated your comment. I don't think your telling the truth either. Have you even used Mac OS X 10.6?"

He is another of the regular trolls, the seagull type. Don't expect to him to answer.

[Renegade Knight]

@MPB-G17

10.6 introduced the "drop your connection" bug to what used to be a very stable internet connection (I was impressed with 10.5 ability to just work on my network and internet).

That instablity is especially frustrating to college students in the middle of an online quiz or other online work they have to do.

My ablity to crash any system be it BSoD or Sinning Beach Balls of Doom means I've seen all the ways they crash and burn.

[bramathon]

Two Things:

First, Mac vs. PC is retarded. Nobody cares what your computer you use or what it can do, you didn't build it, you bought it. Anyone can do that. Go do something useful with it instead of yapping about it on the internet.

Second, and my reason for commenting, is after reading this article I couldn't help but think that if Microsoft was trying to rip of Apple's UI, they did a pretty poor job of it. Windows 7 feels pretty much like windows and the only thing that I could really see being ripped from a Mac is the dock...but docks aren't exactly a mac specific thing anyway. Sounds to me like he was saying that Apple gets a lot of credit for having a nice looking UI and they are trying to emulate that success by creating a slicker UI. Navorone01 up there seems to agree (props for looking up the quote).

Anyway, I'm tired of seeing these pointless articles that have really no purpose other than to start a flame war on cnet and get some hits. This is basically trolling on a large scale. Bye Cnet, I think I'll go somewhere else for my tech news.

[CoolArsh]

Same here probably moving to zdnet.com