Apple forces Microsoft to change Laptop Hunter ad

So Microsoft does keep an eye out for Apple. And perhaps even an ear out for Apple's lawyers.

Recently, Microsoft COO Kevin Turner claimed that Apple's legal vultures had called Redmond, aggrieved at alleged inaccuracies in Microsoft's Laptop Hunters campaign.

He described the call as being better than an evening with Angelina Jolie and Jennifer Aniston. Well, perhaps not quite. But he certainly used phrases like "greatest single phone call," as if only multiple phone calls from Cupertino would have made him more excited.

However, according to AdAge Microsoft has actually made changes to one of the Laptop Hunter ads.

It's the one featuring Lauren, the aspiring law student, and her mom, who claimed that Lauren usually gets what she wants.

In the original version of the ad, Lauren, who wants to spend a maximum of $1,700 on her computing dreams, offered this competing statement: "This Mac is $2,000, and that's before adding anything."

Her mom, Sue, asks her why she would pay twice the price. To which Lauren gives her the steely look of a future prosecutor and says: "I wouldn't."

This loving familial exchange has now been edited out. The old version has been removed from YouTube and replaced with a new version, in which Lauren merely says: "It seems like you're paying a lot for the brand."

A Microsoft representative told AdAge: "We slightly adjusted the ads to reflect the updated pricing of the Mac laptop shown in the TV advertisement. This does not change the focus of the campaign, which is to showcase the value and choice of the PC."

In a week in which Microsoft admitted that sales of PCs are sluggish, might it be possible that Apple's lawyers will be taking advantage of happy hour on Friday night?

With a sip of the finest chardonnay, of course.

[Get_a_life_Leo]

This doesn't make either company look good but Microsoft needs to advertise based on quality or experience not price. Surely PC makers would much prefer to sell more expensive machines but these ads simply seem to push cheapness as the main attribute of Windows vs Macintosh instead of talking about the various advantages of Windows (like the fact that even Apple makes it easy for users to run Windows natively on Macs).

The Microsoft COO has eaten crow two days in a row.

[solahere]

windows runs natively on mac cause windows allows them to...Mac are so anti-software that they do not even allow mac to be used in virtual machines...its not cause windows cant but cause apple do not want that!

and I dont think its a bad way to market based on price difference..though you are right that they should cite the advantages (if there are any :)

[solitare_pax]

Actually, you can make a PC run Mac software - do a google search for 'Hackintosh" - or better yet, browse the CNET archives where they tell you how.

[lazycat202]

who want to run Mac software on PC? geezz!

[TX-Sunset]

I always laugh and laugh when I hear or read about How great it is that Mac can easily run Windows. If MacOS is so great, why do you need to run a second OS? PC users generally never need or want another OS to dual boot. Only the hardcore IT people generally multi-boot and even then it usually Linux. And for all the Mac Fanboys that say the New MacOS is a flavor of linux, it may have been based on a great open source OS, but they closed it, locked it down and made it so no one else hass access to it anymore. So it is not really Linux anymore is it?

[mindpower]

"If MacOS is so great, why do you need to run a second OS?"

Some people want to run a few Windows programs they're used to, but in general once switchers discover that they don't really need their Windows programs (because there are as-good or better Mac equivalents) they often end up hardly ever booting to Windows or not at all.

"it may have been based on a great open source OS, but they closed it, locked it down and made it so no one else hass access to it anymore"

Microsoft basically took the BSD network stack and shoved that into Windows, how is that any different from Apple?

"So it is not really Linux anymore is it?"

It never was Linux you clueless fool. OS X's core is based on FreeBSD which has nothing to do with Linux.

[renGek]

An imitation of the real thing is always just that...an imitation and never as good as the original.
Its kind of like saying I don't need to go to paris to see the eiffel tower because its just as good to see it in Las Vegas.

[solahere]

"Actually, you can make a PC run Mac software - do a google search for 'Hackintosh" - or better yet, browse the CNET archives where they tell you how."

do you even know what the word "native" means?

[Random_Walk]

"do you even know what the word "native" means?"

Actually, the only big modification you have to do on OSX to make it run on a PC is to modify the bootloader (to rip out the TPM chip check and replace it with Apple's own Darwin bootloader, swaging it into an ISO image that you build from the install media).

Otherwise, a Hackintosh runs the OSX kernel natively on any SSE3 CPU (if your CPU is SSE2, then you do have to build/get an SSE3 emulation shim, but for any recent Intel Core Duo/Quad chip, no problem - it's native).

HTH.

Signed,
A guy who owns 'real' Macs, but loves to tinker on a Hackintosh.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Random_Walk:

"Signed,
A guy who owns 'real' Macs, but loves to tinker on a Hackintosh."

You forgot to add the term, "thief" or "criminal". Whichever you prefer

[Mergatroid Mania]

Lol, actually the article should have been titled:

MICROSOFT FORCES APPLE TO LOWER PRICES

[RompStar_420]

Mac laptops are way better, you get what you pay for, both the hardware is better and the Operating System that runs it is way better!!!!!

MS is only telling people a one-sided biased Ad campaign, but then again, all advertising is like that, so....

[solahere]

hardware is better? as far as I know neither apple nor microsoft produces thier own hardware!

if you mean the outer casing, then I dont have anything to say

[TechSlap]

I agree with solahere, the hardware components in a Mac laptop can be found in many other PC type laptops. I like Macs, but arguing that hardware is better shouldn't be the case.

[ducttape36]

apple does make some of their own hardware.

[Nataku4ca]

hardware is better....? i think u might need to research abit on that

[MyRightEye]

Ah, backlit keyboard, ambient light sensors, FireWire 800, Sudden Motion Sensor that parks the HD heads, 7 hour batteries, magnetic power adaptor that prevents breakage of internal components, keyboards that are simply the best, glass trackpads that never wear out and stay silky smooth forever, multi-touch trackpads that reduce keyboard interaction, and of course, a hollowed out slab of Aluminum for a case! I think it's safe to say, you get what you pay for, and yes, Apple makes their hardware.

[tektaktyks]

hardware is pretty much same,and u can run osx on a pc,there was a vid from cnet on how to put it on a thinkpad,theres kalyway that runs on amd's,youtube it,damn macboys r so silly...

[Alphaman63]

Apple DESIGNS its own hardware, but contracts out the manufacturing on most items.

Dollar for dollar, feature for feature, Macs are price competitive within 10% of Windows PCs, because they are basically using the same hardware internals. However, in the past Apple was known to take only those components that passed factory QA with the highest tested specs in a batch. Is that still true? If so, then it could still be possible that "the hardware is better" on the inside, too.

[TX-Sunset]

@ MrRightEye

Oh, they do make their own hardware? Where is their manufacturing plant? I have never seen an Apple Manufactuering plant. Last time I checked, they use Chinese manufacturers to make all their hardware, the same Chinese manufacturers that make many, many other devices for many other brand names. I am sure they make some equipment exclusively for apple, but again, apple does NOT make their own stuff.

[xilonic]

Good job, MyRightEye! Finally someone pointed out the myriad little things that together make that big difference.

[lazycat202]

There's no way you can learn computer skills with a mac. If you want to get in Information Technology society, do yourself a favor, get a Microsoft or Linux PC.
Sure! you can keep your mac runs for 5 years. After 5 years, just look back and ask yourself this :"Where am I?".

[myles taylor]

I think the funniest thing about the Lauren one is that if you watch it carefully, she didn't even go into the Apple store. Watch the pedestrian traffic in both scenes and you can see that she didn't even go in (or at best walked in and then walked back out without staying in for more than a second). I think that just blows Microsoft's "unscripted average crowd" thing out of the water, especially since "Lauren" is an actress.

[myles taylor]

Sorry, it wasn't the Lauren ad, but the first one they ran.

[CDubber]

It was the Lauren ad (they had two different Laurens (original!)) - the first (the redhead) is the one that walks in and walks right back out. Ah, the magic of faux reality!

[NPGMBR]

I'm not sure I get it. The entire commercial is edited to fit into 30 seconds or less. How can you be sure she didn't spend any time in the store?

[ZeTron57]

@ NPGABR because the pedestrian traffic should have changed, or walked on, if she actually spent any time in the store. Maybe she did, but not when they were filming her "unscripted" experience. bah

[myles taylor]

@NPGMBR because as she "goes into" the store, you can see a man approaching from the right carrying a bag and then when she "walks out" the guy has only moved about two feet and is disappearing out of the shot on the left.

[pjhenry1216]

::sigh:: They could have easily just done the filming after she goes into the store. Its cheaper, faster, more efficient, and just all around smarter to do it that way.

[NPGMBR]

pjhenry1216 - Exactly what I was thinking. Way way back in the early 1990s when I was in Junior High School, I was selected to participate in a commercial for the school system. Myself along with six other students were supposed to be filmed walking out of our school.

Now you'd think something like that would be relative easy but in actually it took 8 takes for the crew to get that magic shot that they wanted. Unless you were there you cannot say with certainty that she didn't actually examine the items in the store.

[baconstang]

SURE it was unscripted.... it's just that the pedestrians were extras.

[myles taylor]

If that was the case it wasn't an unscripted and casual "live" shot as Microsoft made it seem. I have no problem with paid actors being in commercials and either way, they were getting paid by Microsoft to be on TV and get a free laptop...you can't say they weren't biased.

[monkeyfun14]

@myles taylor

Do you expect any commercial to have people bash their products?

[myles taylor]

Also, so much for the ads working. Even with everyone saying that Macs are more expensive, tough economic times, and Microsoft's "successful" ad campaign that has been changing the perception, Apple is still growing while the rest of the industry is slipping. Regardless of which one is better, both companies need to stop advertising by bashing the other company and focus more on their own merits. Apple has to target Windows users though because they have the market share. Microsoft is trying to prevent people who are thinking about switching by bashing Macs. Is it working?

[NPGMBR]

I think a lot of people are holding off on buying PCs obviously because of the economy but those that want to are waiting for Windows 7. I have one friend doing exactly that. He needs a new PC and asked what I thought and I told him to wait till Win7 was out instead of getting a PC with Vista and then getting the upgrade.

[lazycat202]

waiting for my budget filling up
waiting for Win7 SP1

[Lerianis3]

lazycat, I can understand the first thing.... waiting for SP1, I cannot. I've been using this thing since the BETA phase, and everything works that I use, gaming and otherwise.

[baconstang]

The 'hunter' ads ARE effective, Mac has had record sales!

[SergeM256]

Apple is still growing while the rest of the industry is slipping ...
Apple is growing by iPhone, Mac business is not really growing.

[jabberwolf]

Actually read BEHIND the Apple propaganda.

While the sales of Apples has increased and so has their gross margin.. the IDC shows that Macs have actually LOST MARKET SHARE!!!!

Kinda simple ( if you arent a macfan) . Basically, sales of net books have been a boon in this economy and more people buy them than macs. I mean when you can get a 10+ inch netbook with a 9300 nvidia chip in it for around 700 bucks!?!? And why even bother with the macs when you can get a an equal machine, and replace it with a fast SSD drive, and be at the same price level while running cirlces around a mac??!

[sanjayb]

@jabberwolf

Yeah, in the meantime the companies that make these Netbook barely make any money of them cuz they are cheap pieces of crap. In the meantime Apple makes helathy profit margins on the computers that say sell. Yeah maybe 1000 Netbooks get sold for every Mac, but who gives a f*** if u making little money off it.

[dgoshilla]

Why didn't they simply date mark the ad? That would've been smart.

[S R]

On the car segment, Hyundai is doing the same thing and guess what, their market share is rising like crazy, while BMW, Lexus, Acura are shrinking. :P

When we compare cars, we compare specs, and we compare designs, how it feels, how the headlights are positioned, etc. etc. We talk about design. But, when it comes to laptops, we just compare two sheets of paper that lists specs. Too sad.

[Random_Walk]

The difference is, Hyundai (for most models) actually makes a pretty strong vehicle for the price-point (and has a warranty to match).

Can you (honestly, and based on technical reasons) say the same about Vista?

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Random_Walk:

You speak a lot about a product (Vista) that you have publically stated you do not own, use, or support, yet you also comment in other stories that you support a large number or Dell E6500 laptops running Win7 and Vista.

You may want to get your story straight. Right now your credibility is right up there with Penguinisto... funny how that is....

But to answer your question, I would say that Vista works pretty darn well on those machines in the ads, and Win7 will work even better. It's a shame you cannot install OS X legally on those systems for comparison. Windows installs on a Mac just fine, but Apple prohibits you from doing that on a PC based system. Oh sure, you can build a Hackintosh, but only criminals do that.

[gggg sssss]

In the day when the US govt has to bail out its auto maufcaturers to keep workers off welfare, you are going to buy a piece of cr*p made in Korea? YOu have got to be kidding.

[crue24]

You're going to spend $50,000 on that BMW when you could buy this Honda for $25,000? Price isn't everything, people will buy what they prefer and price is only one factor. I think it's a bad campaign. Not even bashing windows, but the campaign makes them sound like a cheap copy rather than the leading technical company. Windows stigma isn't price, it's people complaigning about the OS issues. Saying "we're cheaper" is like saying, we suck, but we're cheaper. I'm not even talking about my preference, I use both, (but prefer mac). I'm simply referring to the advertising, to me, they should try to change people's perception of the OS rather than price because to me it just helps Apple. "Yeah, we don't compete in bargain PCs because we won't sacrifice our quality." MS marketing needs to try again.

[Get_a_life_Leo]

Spot on. These ads suck. The I'm a Mac/PC ads also suck but have some level of humor thanks to PC. The Vista ads showing a 4 year old taking a picture and emailing it to granny are somewhat better (although the kid building a video is seems about as natural as watching a dog shuffle cards). These at lease tackle the ease-of-use argument that Aplpe keeps trumping. Microsoft marketing in general just seems out of sync with the zeitgeist.

[Tiggobittie]

BINGO! BMW also doesn't want to own 100% of the market either. Just like Apple doesn't. Isn't it OK to make the best product, offer an elegant choice with class and style, make great profits for shareholders, have the best customer satisfaction, have the best customer care programs, etc., etc... and only own a portion of the market?

Isn't this what BMW , MB, and Audi want to do in their markets?

[tsi26]

@Tiggobittie

Of course Apple doesn't want to own 100% of the market...probably not even a majority! Could you imagine the EU anti-trust litigation that would come?!?!?!?!??!?! Can you say forced separation of hardware and software?!?!?!

[rebellious1]

Now maybe Apple will stop saying they are not prone to viruses.

[ballmerisanape]

How do you know Apple "forced" the change. Maybe MS changed the ads because they were actually wrong.

[therpmonkey]

erm... maybe becuase they changed it after they got a call from Apple's legal team? Did you read the article? When a lawyer calls you and says "just thought you should know..." what they're really saying is "you need to do something about this before we sue your ass off."

[Vegaman_Dan]

Why change an ad that was working unless you get told to do so through threats? Why would Apple even *care* about a Windows ad?

Seems to me the ads were working overly well to get Apple's attention enough to make them blink.

[Perry_Clease]

Pretty lame headline if you want to get page hits and comments. It should have read 'MicroSoft Caves In To Apple's demands" :)

[Dalkorian]

Personally I think "Micro$oft bends over for Apple Lawyers" would incense more violence. :D

[TechSlap]

Just time stamp it, geeze. That could of fixed some things. Apple kind of sounds like a whiny little girl. Though if its that important then go for it.

[philosfool]

All advertisements are lies and deceptions.

Unfortunately for us, the people being told to spend their money in accord with the lies and deceptions, you can only make someone stop lying and deceiving if you are a major market competitor who can demonstrably show that your product has been misrepresented. Lying about the merits of your own product is perfectly legal, and so are nebulous claims like "superior to all competition."

[ZeTron57]

You're somewhat correct. It is perfectly OK to state generically your product is superior to the competition's. As exactly where your superior is a matter subjective opinion. It's up to the other company to demonstrate their product is actually superior for assisting you with XYZ task.... However when you state it's half the price, but it really is not, then you're making a falsehood and that is not allowed.

[Norseman]

Oh, oh. Kevin blinked.

I wonder if they had to re-shoot some of that "spontaneous, ad-libbed" dialog?

[Dalkorian]

Naw, it was just "spontaneous ad-libbed SP2" dialog.

Several years ago, I was in charge of purchasing a lot of computers for my daughter's school. I assumed PCs would be cheaper than Macs and I would have to sell the board on quality of experience, lack of viruses, etc. Much to my surprise, after the usual Apple educational discounts kicked in, the Macs were also the cheaper pick.

[Lerianis3]

What about the Microsoft education discounts? I did the same looking, and the fact is that PC's are less expensive even in educational settings than Mac's are, once you put discount against discount.

[gggg sssss]

hopefully you are no longer in charge of spening tax payers' money having admitted doing so little research.

[sanjayb]

MS can give discounts on the OS but not on the hardware. Apple can provide both. So in the end the Macs could have worked out to be cheaper.

[B-Ri]

Nowhere in the article does it mention anything about how Apple forced Microsoft to change the ads. The fact that they did was interesting but this article is more sensationalism with an Apple bias. I love the Mac platform, I have several apple products, but I am astounded how they are given so much of a pass in the tech press. The switcher ads had plenty of exaggeration and overblown claims but because they are funny we accept the false claims. But when MS does an ad they get busted for the accuracy of the facts. It is an ad people, ads aren't there to tell you the facts they are there to promote the product. If all you do is base your buying decisions on an ad then you aren't a very good consumer.

[baconstang]

The Mac ads were funny, and yes, somewhat exaggerated. The 'Hunter' ads were not funny, and even presented as 'real' and not scripted. When the exaggerations and omissions in the MS became unambiguously false (Mac pricing), then it's legally false advertising and has to be changed.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@baconstang:

"The 'Hunter' ads were not funny, and even presented as 'real' and not scripted"

I think you may want to clarify that to say that the ads were not funny to Apple fans. They seem to be quite popular with everyone else.

[Dalkorian]

Dan, you do understand the difference between "funny" and "popular", right?

I do have to admit some of them made me laugh though. They expect us to believe these are unscripted? ROFLMAO!

[JoeF2]

@Dan:
"They seem to be quite popular with everyone else."

If by "everybody else" you mean "fanboys like you", you may be right.
But in the real world, MS fanboys are far and between.
If you believe these ads were unscripted, you probably also believe in Santa Claus.

[baconstang]

Actually I think the only folks who thought they were funny would have been Mac users. Although ridiculous is more accurate than funny.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@MacFanBoys

The ads were funny. The Mac vs PC ads were funny. You don't have to be an elitist snob to see humor in an adverisement. You DO have to be one if you want to only believe that your own choice of product is superior to all others.

I found all the ads, both Microsoft and Mac, to be funny and clever. I have both Apple and PC products that I use daily.

Were the ads real or were they scripted? I don't know... but then nobody ever claimed otherwise. You guys are making up your own facts in the absence of any real information, then start quoting each other as basis for your own opinions. You're building a house of cards as a result.

[hoocares]

@Vegaman_Dan

How bout I quote you instead: "I do work *at* Microsoft's campus"

[sanjayb]

What's so funny about some Lauren chick getting giddy over a free PC?

[shycelticwitch]

MS ads are not "funny". Most of my colleagues who are MS users are rather embarrassed by them. The Mac ads, while exaggerated, were well thought out for humor effect.

[markredf150]

cute girl.

too bad she didn't want to go with the Mac

[Dalkorian]

Cute doesn't always equal smart.

[gggg sssss]

@ Dalkorian - no, but isnt it great when you can be cute and smart? WHich seems to be the case here.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Dalkorian

Oh... get over it. You're just jealous you're not as cute as the girl is. :)

[sanjayb]

The jury is still out on smart. Talk to me if/when she becomes a lawyer.

[AppleSuxLeo]

All MSFT had to do was replace it with "almost twice the price".
$100 is hardly a significant discount. Bottom line is Apple HATES that people are knowing the truth.
Kiss my A** Apple !

[S R]

Well, people who buy a Mac know exactly what the deal is. They know that they are paying more than the PC. But, people who buy PC do not know that there's a superior alternative for a moderate price increase. I don't think Apple hates that people are educated of the truth -- in fact, that's what they want.

It's MSFT that hates that people are figuring out the truth -- so, the they are targeting the instant gratification factor -- price!

[Perry_Clease]

"Bottom line is Apple HATES that people are knowing the truth"

Now, now Leo if that is the case then Apple certainly doesn't hate you.

[cvaldes1831]

Curiously, Apple customers always end up at the top of the pile in customer satisfaction surveys.

If saving money is so wonderful, why are non-Apple customers considerably unhappier? Or perhaps you really *can* buy happiness (at least with high-tech purchases).

[ddesy]

Dead on, Perry_Clease.

[gggg sssss]

@ S R , well 95 percent of the world seem to know a PC is a better deal. Not bad. 5 percent think that Macs are a good deal. 5 percent fo the world think that we never landed on the moon either. Not really a consituencey worth paying attention to is it?

[Vegaman_Dan]

I was in an Apple store last night buying an iPhone. I was typing up my order on a 13" MacBookPro. The signage accompanying it touted its features, the Apple Care plan, and special tie in offers of a free Tuoch with the purchase.

All that was in very large font sizes. The price? That was tiny, more of an afterthought.

Normally in a retail presentation, you don't go out of your way to hide the price like that unless there is a reason. Take a look at any retail box store- they promote the pirice, not try to distract you from it.

I did have the Apple sales rep tell me all about the 'lost my iPhone feature' and how it was an exclusive free service from Apple. Um... that's not quite true, it requires MobileMe at $99 a year, but they told me it was FREE. No MobilleMe requierd. I wasn't going to argue the fact- they have some training issues at that store. "Steve" needs a refresher.

[sanjayb]

@ Vegaman_Dan

This is no different from any misinformed Best Buy person telling u misinformation on their PC laptops. You run into this all the time.

[S R]

Lauren: "I am a PC and I exactly know what I wanted."
Mom: "She usually does."
<deleted dialogue.>
Mom: ".., but not this time."
Lauren: "Mom!"

[monkeyfun14]

Yes cause only Apple knows what you want?

[La_Mont]

I like my macs, but apple has enjoyed about ten years of being overpriced. I only hope that other manufacturer make better designed computers and hammer away the fact that they are higher spec'd for hundreds of dollars less than macs. Oh, is this what microsoft has been saying... in a convoluted way? The more the competition hammers away at this unjustifiable difference the higher spec'd and lower priced macs will become. If mac pricing was justified, they would not have been lowered and specs would not have been improved. Thank you microsoft!

[cary1]

Macs aren't expensive, if you spend a little time searching.

Here's what I got for $500:
Mac mini (baseline specs) + Printer = $499 + Tax

Sold printer on craigslist = -$60

Bought 4GB RAM from newegg = $58 (Apple charges $200 for exact same thing)

Total: ~$500

Remove OSX and install Windows Vista/7 Home Premium on it and you got yourself a small form factor HTPC

[La_Mont]

I disagree that Macs aren't expensive. Not all but the Pro tower, pro macbooks and 24 inch imacs are expensive. I would advise anyone who doesn't mind a refurb to save on the price by purchasing one. I do however think that all the mac computer models are overpriced.

[cary1]

@La_Mont

I agree with you. When I was looking at the price of RAM, the most expensive 2x2GB DDR3 204 pin RAM I could find was $130 (I bought mine for $58). Apple sells the same for $200.

Macs are expensive if you go for higher end models or if you add stuff to baseline configuration.

I like their hardware design: how they fit a full desktop power in a small form factor. I couldn't find a decent PC in the same size range as Mac Mini.

[lakorai2]

....except that Mac Mini has laptop hardware that is inferior to a Core2Duo, Core2Quad or Phenom X3, X4 system.

Check Tomshardware.com. You overpaid... significantly.

Not to mention the proprietary form factor and the very limited upgradability, no PCIe slots etc.

a Phenom X3 or X4 system can be build for far less than $599 with vastly superior hardware.
Much better CPU. Much larger L2/L3 cache
Dedicated video card, not the crap 9400m integrated card which STEALS ram to run
full tower, much easier to service
card slots. upgradable.
16X DVD drive, not 8X laptop drive
Much higher performance 7,200 RPM desktop drive, not a slow 5,400 RPM laptop drive

A mac mini is a terrible HTPC. No eSATA. No internal drive bays. No high performance HDCP video card for Blu-Ray and HD-DVD Playback. No capability to do Dolby TrueHD or DTSHD. Not to mention to laptop hardware.

[wolivere]

Umm why would you buy a mac mini for win 7 when you could have got superior hard hardware for less?

[ikramerica--2008]

He doesn't need that for an HTPC, however. As long as it can play 1080p without skipping, that's all the power an HTPC needs. Period.

If you want gaming? Photoshop speed? Maybe you need something else, but the mini is an ideal embedded machine. It runs cool, runs quiet, takes up almost no space, and has FW800 for low overhead and uber fast external storage.

If you really want to increase speed of the OS itself, you can of course swap in an SSD on the SATA interface. But honestly, it's fine without it, as 4GB of memory cuts down on swapping.

[cary1]

@lakorai2

I was not aiming for stars here. I already have a Blu-ray player and I watch like 2 movies a month on that, so don't need Blu-ray drive/software/graphics card

Mac Mini comes with Core2Duo with 3MB L2 cache and 10ggMHz FSB which is what most PCs come with.

I agree you can build a better HTPC for same price, but what about power consumption? Mac Mini uses 40W power when idle. Compare that to 150 to 200 W of your Phenom based desktop, it will save ~ $100 in electricity bill every year.

Let's talk about the form factor. An HTPC is ideally used with a TV... in the living room, not with a 19" monitor in the den. It has to be small, it has to be elegant, it has to be quiet. Show me a good DIY computer case which can do all this and pack Phenom X3 and 4 drive bays and dedicated graphics card.

I have built a PC before and it was a big pain to maintain it. Atleast if something in Mac Mini breaks down I can send it to Apple to fix it. When DIY system, I am on my own.

Why do I need eSATA when I have Firewire 800 and Wireless N? I can hook up a Firewire drive or network drive and get the job done.

Here's the bottomline: Your HTPC is a big truck which you made yourself buying parts from a store and my HTPC is Honda Civic which I bought from a dealer. Your trucks suits your needs and my car fits my needs.

BTW... Apple sucks

[cary1]

@ wolivere

? Small form factor (and I mean really small) but still using Core2Duo and DDR3 RAM
? Low power consumption
? Quiet
? Pretty

[gggg sssss]

You could have gotten a Dell inspiron WITH 4 gb memory for 309. With a real processor. And you paid another $200 for Vista on top of that? What waas taht they said about a fool and his money?

[cary1]

@gggg sssss

You dont get it. do you? It's a small form factor computer. If I wanted a huge, noisy, power guzzling system, I would have bought this http://www.dell.com/us/en/home/desktops/inspndt_531/pd.aspx?refid=inspndt_531&s=dhs&cs=19

And no I didn't pay $200. I am running & RC1 for free. Later I'll get educational priced version for $50 from my campus book store.

What was that they said about a village idiot?