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July 16, 2009 2:22 PM PDT

Police chief slams iPhone-driven speeders

by Chris Matyszczyk
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Oh, what lack of 'appiness have the iPhone app-ers caused now?

Well, the police chief of Washington, D.C., Cathy Lanier, is rather upset that wicked, venal humans have been downloading an iPhone app that enjoys the peculiar talent of telling you where speed cameras are.

She told the Washington Examiner that this was a "cowardly tactic."

"It's designed to circumvent law enforcement--law enforcement that is designed specifically to save lives," she said.

Could anyone possibly argue? Well, perhaps.

Speed cameras can be a source of some frustration.

(Credit: CC 91RS/Flickr)

Morality is a slope with many slips these days. Technology is moving at a pace far beyond most people's speed limits, so that we're all a little confused as to what is right and what slightly less right.

Oddly, D.C. has embraced technology rather more lovingly than many parts of the U.S.

The Examiner report cites a database called POI Factory, whose estimate is that 10 percent of all red-light and speed cameras in the U.S. are in the D.C. area. That's 290 of them, in case you were thinking of driving there.

And they seem to be something of a revenue-earner as well as a lifesaver. In 2009, the expectation is that Montgomery County (Maryland) will earn $29 million from its cameras.

Some might see a certain irony in the idea that, while these cameras are used to enforce the law, the police chief believes it would not be able to enforce the law to ban the iPhone apps.

"With the Internet and all the new technology, it's almost impossible to stop the flow of information," she said.

And so we enter a new era of technological hide-and-seek between heroes and villains. The snoopers are snooped upon. The police is policed.

Well, it is the land of the free, right?

Chris Matyszczyk is an award-winning creative director who advises major corporations on content creation and marketing. He brings an irreverent, sarcastic, and sometimes ironic voice to the tech world. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET.
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Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 3 pages (93 Comments)
by Pete Bardo July 16, 2009 2:37 PM PDT
"With the Internet and all the new technology, it's almost impossible to stop the flow of information," she said.

OMG, that means she wants to stop the flow. Get a grip. Using the cameras is in itself a "cowardly tactic." What's wrong with ordinary people protecting themselves from the Police, anyway?

All traffic enforcement cameras should be torn down and be illegal to boot!
Reply to this comment
by manualfunky July 16, 2009 3:04 PM PDT
i think traffic cameras should still be in place... just no fines... i'm assuming in the states they also take demerit points off your license, just as they do here in Australia and NZ?
by Random_Walk July 16, 2009 3:42 PM PDT
The only society in which policing is easy is in a Police State...

Part of the job, ma'am.
by bradenisme July 16, 2009 4:03 PM PDT
here in arizona its only about making money. they don't give you points or send you to driving school they just want money.
by T_Hoff July 16, 2009 5:18 PM PDT
@manualfunky

I totally agree, other countries (including the EU) handle this much more intelligently. If you take points off the license, the argument of entrapment and revenue hunting disappears, and the potential loss of driving privileges carries far more weight for many people than the cost of a speeding ticket.
by monkeyfun14 July 16, 2009 8:04 PM PDT
@T_Hoff

Many states take off points..
by pcfish July 17, 2009 8:30 AM PDT
Speed limit itself is not updated to reflect technology advancement. Many cars can safely driven to 100mph and more. Traffic flow and fuel economy concerns should only be suggestive, not laws. Constantly looking at the speedometer and glance for the existence of cop is more dangerous to speed itself, imo.
by clumpkin July 17, 2009 9:41 AM PDT
Well a good number of cities are taking them down anyway. They reduce ticket revenue too much.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2008/03/cities-removing/
by wmd July 16, 2009 2:39 PM PDT
I got something to tell Chief Lanier - and the horse she rode in on...
Reply to this comment
by Perry_Clease July 16, 2009 2:39 PM PDT
I don't suppose that the Chief of Police could deploy some patrol cars and catch moving violators the old fashioned way.
Reply to this comment
by nmjester July 16, 2009 5:19 PM PDT
Police departments frequently deploy patrol cars and officers to "catch moving violators the old-fashioned way", but the traffic cameras reduce the need to post those officers at intersections at all times of the day and night, allowing them to be deployed in other problematic areas. The cameras don't replace the officer on the street, they just supplement them.
by Perry_Clease July 16, 2009 8:42 PM PDT
"The cameras don't replace the officer on the street, they just supplement them."

Yes, in addition to catching speeders and red light runners the cameras also catch expired tags, change of lanes without turn signal, exhaust noise or music exceeding the allowable decibel level, drivers not giving way to pedestrians in the crosswalk and host of other violations. It isn't about safety thought that is the reason they use to dupe the public, it is a cash cow for local governments.
by Pishkado July 16, 2009 2:45 PM PDT
How is this any different, in principle, from carrying around a paper map with the same information?
Reply to this comment
by Philscbx July 21, 2009 2:08 AM PDT
Good point actually.

I only found this application for the iPhone for Europe.
If the US version was there, it would of been right next to it in the stack.
I guess a forced search is next.
by FreddieT July 16, 2009 2:47 PM PDT
I do not see any problem with knowing where the speed cameras are in advance. The cameras are supposedly installed on the locations where speeding poses the greatest danger. That being the case, slowing down at those locations should help save lives. Now, it would be a whole lot different issue if the police were upset that their source of extra renevue is in danger. :p
Reply to this comment
by JoeNYC July 16, 2009 4:50 PM PDT
You hit the nail on the head. The point is to save lives, right? Why is she mad that people know when to slow down? Sounds more like she's throwing a fit about lost revenue.
by gerrrg July 16, 2009 8:29 PM PDT
Can't agree more with both of you, on both points.

Some police have gone to such lengths as placing a parked patrol car along the highway with a disguised blow-up doll or mannequin. It proves that some jurisdictions know of cheaper methods, but the outcome is still all the same.
by B-Ri July 17, 2009 1:14 PM PDT
I agree. If they are put up to stop people from breaking the law then even if the people know where they are they are serving that purpose. Though admittedly only for the small window of that intersection. It isn't all about safety, that is what they say but that's because if they come out and say that it is a big revenue stream that they don't like trimmed then they look like a..holes.
by monkeyfun14 July 16, 2009 2:47 PM PDT
If the US made the speed limits atleast half of what the cars had the potential to accelerate to people wouldn't feel so compulsed to speed.

Going 70mph when your car can go 160 is a drag...
Reply to this comment
by Dalkorian July 16, 2009 5:05 PM PDT
Here in the US, the fact that your car is capable of 160 MPH doesn't necessarily mean that YOU are competent at those speeds.
by monkeyfun14 July 16, 2009 5:24 PM PDT
Whats with the emphasis on the YOU are you directing that at me?
by Philscbx July 21, 2009 2:20 AM PDT
I've used the Autobahn everyday, and it's a severe learning experience that 97% of Americans have no clue of, or the common sense of, and left lane hogging for no reason.

This is illegal anywhere in Europe. You pass, and do so quickly, or stay in right lane.
In all the years spent there, I never saw an accident on motorcycle or car.
The respect level, even on high speed 1 lane curvy, close tree lined opposing traffic in the country side is unnerving, but they all do so professionally.

And My Hat is off to Them. And Darnit, I really miss it.
by Karalex July 16, 2009 2:47 PM PDT
Here in Arizona, they are required by law to post signs warning that Speed Cameras are in use. So no need for an iPhone app.
Reply to this comment
by nmjester July 16, 2009 5:20 PM PDT
We not only have signs, we also have rumble strips before the intersections. And they still catch hundreds of speeders and red light runners every week!
by CreativeMalcolm July 16, 2009 2:50 PM PDT
Honestly these cameras catch people running through red lights, obviously if the people are paying attention to where they drive they're more likely to be careful in general, thus lives are saved... or something?

Either way kind of stupid to complain that people are avoiding doing bad things when you're looking...
Reply to this comment
by myles taylor July 16, 2009 2:50 PM PDT
Our runaway "justice" system, including the whole system of speed limits and traffic laws, need to be revised. For one thing, they don't work, and for another, they are just revenue generators more than anything else. It's a game between the law and the citizens. it needs to be reworked so it actually does protect people instead of fulfilling the purpose of filling the pockets of the city.
Reply to this comment
by gwailo247 July 16, 2009 4:08 PM PDT
Yeah, then we can have people going 60 mph in front of elementary schools at 8 am. After all that 25 mpg speed limit is just a revenue generator.
by B-Ri July 17, 2009 1:17 PM PDT
@gwailo247

I doubt anyone would drive by a school at that speed. People still speed which I think was his point. At least I think it was...
by skyscraperjim July 16, 2009 3:01 PM PDT
There are a couple of red light cameras around here and I hate them-- not because I want to run red lights, but I feel that if I get caught with a late yellow I'm going to get a ticket. I'm therefore always either quickly accelerating (while still green) or slamming on the brakes (for a late yellow) to avoid any chance I'm going to get caught under a red. They force you to drive more aggressively, which IMO makes these intersections far less safe.
Reply to this comment
by Dalkorian July 16, 2009 5:07 PM PDT
True, but look again at the revenue they generate!
by Mikeatle July 16, 2009 5:11 PM PDT
That's a good point. I've felt the same way in these situations.
by houghton2588 July 18, 2009 9:42 AM PDT
They are not forcing you to be more aggressive. You thinking that saving a couple minutes by driving aggressively to fulfill your selfish agenda and endager lives are the exact reason the fines are so big. I am honestly flabergasted that you could leave that comment and not feel like a selfish ass.
by Philscbx July 21, 2009 3:32 AM PDT
This is the biggest crime of traffic control there is.
If I ever meet who times the yellow for .02 seconds.
I'm going to run him over just the way he likes it, quick.

No semi at 40 tons can even come close to stopping let alone cruise through.
Now the green has already let others get under the semi.
Real smart azz brains.
by leosaumure July 16, 2009 3:02 PM PDT
If the idea is simply to save lives by slowing down speeders, then the iPhone app seems to be doing the job. Sounds to me like the Chief of Police is worried about revenue. Maybe the police could create their own iPhone app, advertise it to all of DC's residents, and then charge a couple of bucks for it to compensate for the lost revenues.
Reply to this comment
by monkeyfun14 July 16, 2009 3:11 PM PDT
A police organization helping people speed? Yeah i'm sure officials will just love that one.
by gstah July 16, 2009 3:12 PM PDT
IMO, she could care less about "saving lives". She's worried about losing a chunk of the $29M a year when people are informed and not "trapped". I say, fight fire with fire. **** on 'em.
Reply to this comment
by bildan2 July 16, 2009 3:14 PM PDT
Morally, I think the main issue is "sneakiness". Cops are all too ready to embrace it. For their own public image, they need to avoid it. They also need to understand that government does not exist solely for the purpose of making their job easy.

If the cameras were well marked - as with flashing red and blue lights - anyone who got caught would deserve the ticket.

monkeyfun-14 makes a valid point. Speed limits are mostly political and less about safety. If they were set on the basis of well defined engineering principals, people would be more inclined to respect them.

Further, there's too much emphasis on speeding. It's enforced mainly because evidence is easy to get and it's numerical (45 in a 30 zone) making convictions easy. Aggressive behavior like tailgating and running lights are more important.

Finally, I have zero tolerance for driving while impaired/distracted regardless of the cause. I don't care if it's alcohol, drugs or texting on an i-Phone - the penalty should be loss of license without the possibility of reinstatement at a minimum.
Reply to this comment
by man_w_balls July 16, 2009 7:39 PM PDT
Reasonable thoughts. Too bad law enforcement suffers from a lack of those.

I say "sledgehammers are cheap" when robot camera ticket-revenue generators are plentiful. Also, shotguns are easier to destroy them with.
by pcfish July 17, 2009 8:38 AM PDT
tailgating is the result of the person in front driving really slow and there is no passing lane.
by Philscbx July 21, 2009 3:40 AM PDT
Absolute, too many women have outright taken lives
simply doing nails, and always on the phone for 50 miles.

The gal on the motorcycle sitting at a red light gets mowed down in Chicago by Blk gal
that killed her at 60 mph hitting her from behind.

When the cops looked in the car, nail polish was everywhere.
She got less than a speeding ticket for killing her.
She's lucky I didn't see this happen.
by hermantf July 16, 2009 3:17 PM PDT
If an iPhone app keeps people from speeding or running a light as they approach a red light cam, I don't see what the problem is. Isn't that the goal of these cams anyway???? Oh yea! That's not the goal! The goal is to make money with them!

I'm gonna download this app right now!
Reply to this comment
by monkeyfun14 July 16, 2009 3:21 PM PDT
Crashing in between these cams can be a problem. I don't support of his bickering about it but I can see where they are coming from.

What I would like is the speed limits on the freeway to be jumped up a bit our cars can handle more then 70 move it up to 85 or 90
by cl0ugh July 16, 2009 4:30 PM PDT
@monkeyfun14 I too wish the speed limits were higher, but you should be happy with what you've got. Here in Oregon the top speed (only used in unpopulated stretches of freeway) is 65mph. But I can understand where these limits come from, I've heard that driving at speeds over 60mph can use as much as double the gas as half its speed. Example, driving 50 miles at 90 would burn double the gas of driving that same distance at 45mph.
by July 17, 2009 8:29 AM PDT
Exactly right. There are studies that show that these cameras actually INCREASE accidents as seeing one and a yellow light increases the likelihood that you will slam on your brakes and get hit by the guy behind you. And aslo, your car doesn't drive itself. The driver isn't identified, only the car.

I agree with monkeyfun14, speed limits are not set according to any reasonable criteria. Slower will mean fewer accidents and deaths, but the logical conclusion of that argument is for us all to park our cars and walk! Speed limits should be set according to the engineering involved. That is, the cars, the road, etc. I have noticed that folks have continued to drive faster and faster, it would appear without losing control. I attribute this to road conditions and advances in cars. When I was 16 70 mph seemed really fast in my mom's corolla. Now everyone seems to be driving 80 and it doesn't seem to fast at all.
by pcfish July 17, 2009 8:40 AM PDT
If it is not about safety, shouldn't be a law. If a person want to use double as much gas to go faster, what's wrong?
by lazycat202 July 16, 2009 3:22 PM PDT
as a DC resident, I'd like to have more redlight/speeding cameras install on the streets :) those VA/MD drives come to DC and drive like hell. DC is a city with tiny roads; not beltways that you could push up to 55mph. Learn DC law first and drive in DC!!
Reply to this comment
by Notaphonegeek July 16, 2009 6:58 PM PDT
Sorry lady, retired DC Cop here. DC drivers are just as bad, now the DC Govt has the speeding cameras as well. It really is just about the money. In fact, I responded to more accidents with red light cameras due to the rear end collisions due to people being scared and slamming on their brakes. I'm willing to bet that those lawsuits increased as well. Before I retired fatalities remained almost the same and accidents increased at camera intersections. Everyone knows where all the cameras are anyway, so no need for the app here. What many cities are having success with now is running a longer amber (yellow) signal and a blue light over the red light. Houston, Orlando and a few other cities are enjoying alot of success with it (fewer accidents and fatalities).

PS 295 is 55mph and is in DC as well as a small part of SD Ave.
by Philscbx July 21, 2009 3:50 AM PDT
Yes, the YELLOW needs to time out long enough for all
traffic regardless of 40 semis to get speed down enough to stop.

It's the only thing that will stop death in it's track.
by jwstl July 16, 2009 3:23 PM PDT
I find it disturbing that a Police Chief of a major metro area would want people endangering lives so they can generate revenue. She should be embracing ANYTHING that convinces people to drive the limit. What an ignorant and greedy individual.
Reply to this comment
by macuser25 July 16, 2009 3:24 PM PDT
I don't have an iPhone but this works pretty well for me. www.gpsangel.com
Reply to this comment
by RighteousSoutherner July 16, 2009 3:27 PM PDT
Please, what a bunch of hypocrites. It's a revenue enhancement program for D.C. just like it is for thousands of police departments around the country. They could care less about saving lives. They are out to save their jobs as bureaucrats or public servants. Love that servant part! What part of the phrase did they forget along the way?!
Reply to this comment
by aj37viggen July 16, 2009 3:30 PM PDT
I am surprised that Chief Lanier, with her deep concern for safety, doesn't want MORE drivers to avail themselves of this life-saving technology.

After all, drivers need to exercise the most caution when driving in an area with the highest accident risk, don't they? So a device that could warn of such an area would be a huge safety benefit, wouldn't it?

And traffic-law enforcers -- being solely and nobly concerned with public safety -- naturally position their cameras in the areas of greatest accident risk, don't they?

Well, don't they?
Reply to this comment
by iluvrio July 19, 2009 9:34 PM PDT
We all know that drivers aren't downloading this app due to safety concerns.They are downloading it so they'll know that from say 1st to 4th street is clear of cameras and therefore areas that they can speed in without getting caught on camera. Ok gotta slow down at 5th street because the app tells me there's a camera there. Now I can speed up again. Next they'll come up with an app telling you where security cameras are so people can rob stores and not get caught. Same principal. This app simply helps people to circumvent the law.
by jeffcohn July 16, 2009 3:31 PM PDT
POIFactory is not the primary source of this data and has incorrect information. Many of POIFactory users have stolen data from a free source of red light camera and speed camera information. http://www.photoenforced.com. 290 cameras is only 5% of the total in U.S. which are greater than 5,000 locations not 2,500 which POIFactory indicates. I wish the report would have done a better job at checking his sources.
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Chris Matyszczyk brings a fresh and irreverent perspective to the tech world in his CNET blog, Technically Incorrect. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET.

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