Trent Reznor compares Apple to Wal-Mart

Still somewhere between perplexed and apoplectic after Apple had rejected the new Nine Inch Nails iPhone app update, the band's frontman, Trent Reznor, expressed himself very clearly on NIN's blog forum.

Neatly emphasizing his point with a quite liberal use of the kinds of words that Apple appears to find uncomfortable, Reznor compared Apple's attitude with that of, startlingly, Wal-Mart Stores:

"And while we're at it, I'll voice the same issue I had with Wal-Mart years ago, which is a matter of consistency and hypocrisy. Wal-Mart went on a rampage years ago insisting all music they carry be censored of all profanity and 'clean' versions be made for them to carry."

Seemingly not pausing for breath, he continued: "Bands (including Nirvana) tripped over themselves editing out words, changing album art, etc to meet Wal-Mart's standards of decency--because Wal-Mart sells a lot of records. NIN refused, and you'll notice a pretty empty NIN section at any Wal-Mart."

Trent Reznor would like to scream.

(Credit: CC Edvill/Flickr)

"My reasoning was this: I can understand if you want the moral posturing of not having any 'indecent' material for sale--but you could literally turn around 180 degrees from where the NIN record would be and purchase the film 'Scarface' completely uncensored, or buy a copy of Grand Theft Auto where you can be rewarded for beating up prostitutes. How does that make sense?"

He ends his message with: "Come on Apple, think your policies through and for f***'s sake get your app approval scenario together."

On his Twitter feed, Reznor also linked to a post from his developer:

"v1.0 is live. v1.0.3 got rejected due to content yet the app has no content in it. this was mainly a stability release to fix the bug that crashes the app for international users. the bug was fixed 24 hours after 1.0 went live and we have been waiting for apple to approve it ever since. meanwhile the app continues to get a growing number of 1 star ratings from international users understandably frustrated by the bug. but looks like our hands are tied."

The developer added: "Apple is not allowing us to make the current app more stable because there is "objectionable" content online (yes on the internet). so we are essentially not allowed to fixed bugs unrelated to the issue."

However, perhaps undercutting Reznor's apparent intransigence, the developer said: "We removed the song 'The Downward Spiral' from the server, hoping to appease apple and get this bug fix through. however i have yet to receive a reply."

I have a feeling a reply will be there shortly.

[ikramerica--2008]

I remember when the song came out. My friend who lived next door and was Christian ran into my dorm room and said I had to hear this song. Her response to the lyrics? "As if that would bring him closer to God!" I just thought it was cute she got so bent out of shape over it.

Anyway, I like Weird Al's version better. It really works as a Polka!

[ewsachse]

You like Weird Al's version better? There is something seriously wrong with you.

[Police_States_of_America]

don't question your master steve jobs!

[Hep Cat]

Big surprise. You people manufacture a story out of the "Baby Shaking" pique, and now Apple's screening staff is hypersensitive. They reject an update to an app they'd already approved. This makes Reznor mad and he trashes Apple.

PRESTO! Something else to report on - and C|NET survives another week.

Pretty sad, really. What would you do every day if you had to report on actual news?

[Tedders85]

I think you are missing the point of the whole argument...

[kcotham]

No, I think Hep Cat has it right. This is not news in any way shape or form.

[fubar4fun]

The truth is both this and the Baby Shake story are anti Apple App Store sentiments...rants vs real news. They fill in the white space and count against the total submissions to CNet for a paycheck. CNet will continue to survive as they always have regardless if they report stories like this or not.

Lets put it another way...You have a choice when you read these articles. Should you choose wrong, doesnt mean you need to trash anyone over it. That sort of rhetoric just reflects YOU the person.

[aMUSICsite]

Disney, Wal-Mart, Nintendo and now Apple censor content, well I guess if you have objectionable content then you look else where.

Just like with Wikipedia where you can make a change to a page and have someone take it down, each of these decisions is normally done by one person. I guess Apple needs a better more open review and approval process, but did Trent try appealing against this with Apple or did he just decide to rant about it on the internet and get some free press ;)

[XiroMisho]

if you throw Nintendo into the mix don't forget Sony and Xbox - they have the same sensoring standards as Nintendo, Nindendo's fan base just happens to consist of mostly the E-T area, with little demand for MA (it's there... and sometimes you don't NEED MA to have fun you know...)

[zyxxy]

I think the problem is, you can't on one hand say 'Apple is the GODS and are going to free us all from tyranny' then have Apple lock down iTunes like a vault and lock down the iPhone app store like a vault, and on and on. Yes, they are setting you free in Apple branded chains. Or did you buy an Apple product so that someone else can protect your fragile mind? Good luck with that, Apple is starting to look like Big Brother. Maybe the 1984 advert was a farce!

[ballmerisanape]

He also said this:

"Everyone - let me be clear. I love Apple products and as goofy and out-of-touch as their app approval process / policy is, I will still use them because they work 1000X better than the competition. This is not a debate, it's a fact. The iPhone is THE most elegant, modern smartphone at this point in time and it's perfect for what we want to do with the NIN app - except for the ludicrous approval process, and that's what I want to draw attention to. Android is cool, but nobody has an Android phone. Blackberry is OK but the hardware is inconsistent and WinMo straight-up ***********. If Apple doesn't get it together, we will most certainly make it available to the jailbreak community. I didn't invest in this app to see it languish on the sidelines from an idiotic policy while this tour is in full swing."

[revmbrown]

I for one believe they should be able to censor it if it does not meet the standards of it's users. Everyone doesn't like trashy stuff.

[pjhenry1216]

I'm sad to see your reading comprehension is inadequate. Did you miss the part where the objectionable material was stuff that was online, *NOT* in the app itself? Plus, Apple is the *only* place to get apps for the phone. They need to be a little bit more open since they have to appeal to all of their users, not just a certain group or else they'll alienate a large group of people. Its apparent that they dropped the ball and are scrambling to fix it with iPhone OS 3.0 by giving the same functionality that the rest of the entire iTunes store has had for years (the 'explicit' tag). They made a bad call and it's really starting to come to a head now. Hopefully, they weren't lying when they said this will be fixed in 3.0.

[mkuk71]

Actually, the 'objectionable' content in question can be purchased as a download from Apple's own iTunes store, so the reason given for the rejection doesn't really stand up.

IF an individual finds any content that is downloadable objectionable then they have the choice not to download it. This should not affect the ability of those with rather more open minds to enjoy the works of an incredibly talented artist.

(Yes I am a NIN fan ;D)

[kevinskrause]

Maybe you should download and listen to the album so you may better understand the context of the song in question before you begin berating that which you are obviously ignorant of. I would love to censor your nonsense; but since I can?t, I?ll just call you a **** and be on my way. Here's to not losing any sleep over what you can't, and shouldn't, control.

[Dalkorian]

It may be ironic to post reading material for someone who has shown a lack of reading comprehension, but for the rest of us ...

"v1.0 is live. v1.0.3 got rejected due to content yet the app has no content in it. this was mainly a stability release ..."

The app was approved, the bug fix was rejected. I'm an Apple fan, even so I find this ... laughable.

[v1m]

Not only is Apple like Wal-Mart in being censorious. It's like the infamous big box junkstore in featuring so much junky culture! Who can even look at the front page of iTunes when you load the store -- it's like wandering into a Wal-Mart in witless suburbia.

[lkrupp]

Yeah, just like Microsoft. What could be more junkstore, witlessly suburban than Windows running on a Dell?

[pjhenry1216]

@lkrupp: What? That doesn't even make sense. Your first sentence doesn't make sense. How can you compare an entire software company to the single applcation, iTunes. Secondly, you then compare a music store to an OS running on a specific vendor's hardware. Yes, Dell pretty much sucks but that has nothing to do with Microsoft nor Windows. Your entire statement was completely void of anything intelligent. Thank you for your input. I'm glad to see what caliber of individuals I'll find in the Mac community. Honestly, its people like you that give them a bad name. I don't have a problem with Apple at all, but I do have a problem with people like you.

@v1m: And to be honest, the front page isn't so much iTunes' or Apple's fault so much as society itself. Those things are what a majority of people are asking for and unfortunately we have to put up with it. A lot of that stuff is determined by download counts and what not.

[Tedders85]

@pjhenry1216 - Just how do you know he uses a Mac? Maybe he likes Windows running on an HP? Your argument of "I'm glad to see what caliber of individuals I'll find in the Mac community" is pretty much void when you make ignorant assumptions like that.

[pjhenry1216]

@Tedders85: ::sigh:: Yes, I'm sure thats what he meant when he dissed Microsoft alone. Then continued on to diss Windows on a Dell. He's obviously not a Windows user (despite you thinking he likes Windows on HP and yet somehow glazed over his insult to Microsoft as a whole). Yea, maybe he's a Linux user, but I doubt it. They tend to be more intelligent.

[lkrupp]

NIN should make their own smartphone and sell their own crap on their own app store. Then nobody could offend their warped, holier-than-thou sensibilities.

[pjhenry1216]

Apple should quit telling me what to do with hardware I purchased. I'm fine if Apple wants to censor, but he has a point. The song they found questionable can be purchased from their store. So obviously, they have no problem with profanity as long as they can profit from it.

Of big 3 smartphone OSes out there (blackberry, iphone, android) the biggest problem that exists on any one of them is the iron clad grip that Apple has on instructing people on what they can and can't do with their own property. If they allowed people to install third party apps from third party sources, there'd be virtually nothing wrong with their phone. However, until that is done, this is an extremely enormous blemish on their phone. They gain absolutely nothing from this kind of censorship except enslaving the user and people like you are too blind to stand up to it. Apple gives you a lashing and all you can do is say, "Please, sir, can I have some more."

[ballmerisanape]

pjhenry1216

The iPhone is as successful as is BECAUSE of the "closed" app store environment. It works better than anything tried before it... it's not perfect.. but it's why I can download apps and games on my iPod Touch on a whim.. and have reasonable confidence that said app/game isn't going to screw with my device.

With an "open" distribution system you trade consistency for choice... and.. unfortunately... security and quality in some cases.

A "closed" system allows Apple to maintain consistency (at least they try) and security. Most consumers are tired of worrying about security.. they want to download an app and know it will work. The App store does a decent job at doing that.

[Magicland]

You've been drinking the cool-aid too long. Crapple's app store works better than anything tried before it? And how many other smartphone OS's have you used? I've had a Windows Mobile phone for several years, and haven't had a single problem with ANY 3rd party app for it. Sure, they aren't all put in a nice place that you can buy them directly on the phone, you usually have to buy them online, but they all work just fine, and yes, there's an app for that, many more than are available for the iphone. No security issues, no "screwing with your device", and tell me about the "quality" that the apple-approved "baby shaker" software give you...

[ballmerisanape]

Magicland, typical fanboy response...

"sure the interface is crappy and it takes a long time to find an app... and then you have to download it onto your computer.. and then synch your phone to your computer before you can use the app"... "I don't care if you can think of an app you need.. reach into your pocket.. and have an app installed using a process that takes about 2 minutes total... I like trying to find my stylus, clicking on the little Start menu icon, and using the same GUI interface that I usually use in a 1024 x 768 screen environment...."

Keep em coming. Hope you don't mind... but I filled in the blanks a little. Btw... not sure if you realized this or not.. WinMobile is not so hot in the popularity department for a reason... it sucks. It always has.

[SMB-IL]

Thanks for that. How's the weather up there on high?

[yoyodyne]

@ballmerisanape,
Lay down the meth pipe!! You should look in the mirror before you start accusing people of being fanbois, you fanboy!! Secure!! ha, ha, ha... I guess that is why most corporate environments are dropping their BlackBerries in favor of the iPhone (NOT!!)!! The iPhone is nothing more that a "trendy, expensive, useless" excuse for a smartphone. If you want a real smartphone, get a BlackBerry....

In the mean time, put your blinders back on, you'll be happier!!

[ggore]

Apple is perfectly within its rights in this situation. NIN has every right to produce whatever content it wants under the constitution, whether it contains profanity, nudity, whatever. And Apple is under no obligation to sell that content through its business, and has every right to refuse to sell that content if it feels it doesn't meet their standards.
It's the same if a retailer refuses to sell Playboy at their store. Playboy has every right to produce the magazine, but the retailer is under no obligation to sell that magazine. Rappers have every right to produce misogynistic, homophobic, cop-killer "music", but record companies and record stores have no obligation to manufacture or sell those CD's. Wal Mart and Apple are perfectly within their rights on this one.

[Super2online]

Wait...are they perfectly within their rights? Because I wasn't sure if you had made the point strongly enough after stating and restating it six times in your post.

[pjhenry1216]

This is true. But like most individuals who immediately need to defend their religio... I mean, they're favorite company, Apple, its that Reznor isn't complaining so much about censorship as he is consistency. The app was already approved and then he fixed a bug and it was rejected. The vague reason it was rejected was due to a song THAT APPLE SELLS! So, they censor it in the App Store, but not in any other part of their store. Read the article above instead of just commenting your knee jerk reaction to the head line. Seeing as how the App Store is the sole source of applications (while still keeping your warranty), they're forcing people to submit to their every whim. If Microsoft censored anything, you'd be the first to yell about it, but when almighty Apple does it, you just go, "They're legally allowed to." Whatever happened to the whole argument that Apple cares about the customer? There restrictions on what you can install on your phone is a blatant slap in the face of every iPhone user. And you folks are too blind to see it. Jeez... what did Apple do that makes you so subservient to them?

[ggore]

Sometimes it takes restatement of a point to make that point. Glad you got it.
I'm not defending my religion, I am defending Apple's right to determine what goes onto the device THEY designed and sell. If you don't like what they allow, you are free to jailbreak your phone and install whatever you want to, just don't come on here and ***** holy hell when something you install breaks the phone, installs malware, or otherwise makes that device unusable. Or you are free to buy an Andoid-based phone, or the Palm Pre, or a Blackberry, and use their app stores to install this or other software that they will allow you to install on it.
I would not care one whit if Microsoft disallowed something to be installed onto my Windows machine, if it posed a security risk or because of content. I am not subservient to Apple at all, there are many options to their hardware and software. I CHOOSE to use it because of their strict controls, which have made my computing life so much easier than it used to be with Windows.

[AJ Pants]

Trent should change his 'bands' name to NLR

No Longer Relevant

Actually, were they ever?

Zzzzz.

[pjhenry1216]

According to Rolling Stones, Time Magazine, People and countless other reputable publications throughout the years since he began his career, yes, yes he is relevant. Plus, seeing as how this has made almost *every* tech news site, I'd say that yes, he's still relevant. If that many people are paying attention to him, it makes him relevant by definition, despite your opinion of him. So, factually speaking, yes, he's relevant.

[gadlaw]

Excuse me? But who died and left you in charge of determining who is 'relevant' and who is not? I don't recall hearing about your CD or your movie or your concerts or your book or your appearance on your local radio station's garage music hour. The fact is that Trent Reznor and NIN has been 'relevant' for a good long time and 'relevant' is determined by the music, the fans, the DVD's, the merchandise and the sold out Concerts around the world. And besides, Trent Reznor practically invented a genre of music and to this day remains unique in his style and his music, it doesn't get much more relevant than that. You may not like him or his music as is your right but you don't have the right to determine 'relevance' for anyone but yourself. Having been to NIN concerts I can say for me personally that I haven't seen more professional looking or sounding concerts or concerts with more energy than I get from a NIN concert. Not only that, Trent Reznor is an artist who not only wants to put out the best music that he can but an artist who does his very best to get that music to his fans using all the technology that is available - hence the Apple dust up. And if Trent Reznor takes his stuff to the jailbreak community looks like it's time to jailbreak that iPhone/iTouch.

[kevinskrause]

"...and 'relevant' is determined by the music, the fans, the DVD's, the merchandise and the sold out Concerts around the world".

Exactly. And by your rationale, I, a huge fan, make NIN relevant.

[zyxxy]

Certainly more relevant than AJ Pants.....

[RobertAPierce]

I just don't understand why people would use a device where the manufacturer (Apple) gets to decide what is OK for you to see / do / read / hear. Sell me the device, I'm old enough to figure out what I do or don't want as far as content.

It's like buying a DVD player where the player's manufacturer gets to decide what movies you can watch on it. "No, you can't watch Braveheart, it's too violent!".

No thanks.

[pjhenry1216]

Because Apple users are a different brand of people. Most people buy something and know that it's just tool or product or what not. Apple users got it into their head that Apple devices are more than that, that they are almost divine. This unfortunately caused them to become blindly loyal to the brand. I have no problem with brand loyalty just as long as people understand that there are still things that can be criticized in that brand. They're not perfect and you don't have to justify every bad move they make and try to say its okey dokey.

[MadLyb]

Good rant. Poor analogy.

DVD player's do censor you...by region codes...and that can be used to censor content as well.

Of course, use the right player...and that problem goes away.

Again, good point.

[aMUSICsite]

There are now reports that more 'objectionable' content could be allowed on the store with then new OS update. So it seem, just like with the iTunes music store, it's one of those things Apple will roll out in their own time.

Some people just want everything from the start... It will be interesting to see how other market places like Google, MS and Palm will deal with this sort of thing. My guess is it'll be like any bricks and mortar store, the store owner will choose what to allow and what not to.

I for one am quite happy with the 30,000 apps already on the phone and if the NIN app only gets stuff that's on the website anyway, well isn't the option just to visit their website?

[MadLyb]

OK, I see both sides of the argument, but quite honestly, it is the inconsistency in how Apple deals with these issue between the App Store and iTunes that raises the problems. I will sell the song through iTunes, but ban it in the App Store is not the right message.

[scaught78]

I am suprised Apple approved the Dictionary.com app, since you can look up the words sh--, fu--, cu--, assh--- and of course the word $#@%@&.

[darfjono]

i sir am offended that you would even THINK to type $#@%@&. I am going to call my lawyer to see you in court.



--
(for the idiots who didn't make it past that point yes it's flipping sarcasm you morons)

[ModerateVoice]

scaught78 & darfjono - hilarious! LMAO.... wait, will LMAO get me banned from Apple? Oh well.

[ledhead1962]

The predilection for censoring in the US is a farce. Like the whole country is going to collapse if Wal-Mart sells music with profanity in it. Like Reznor says swear words are censored but you can buy Scarface. Janet Jackson shows a nipple and it's considered a sign of the apocalypse but the evening news shows mutilated bodies when reporting on the war. Such a waste of time and energy with no real benefits aside from keeping the "moral majority" happy. Stupidity run amok!

[NervClaX]

Just announced. NIN Zune. Anyone?

I'm shocked Microsoft hasn't jumped all over the app store problems in their ads.

[Daedalu]

I my self have stopped buying anything apple. We have had there computers Ipods and the like for years. But we just got tired of being tied to there systems and what they thought we should or should not have!
It's great not having to pay the Apple tax and I can say that the other products in the world work just fine. In fact a lot better than Quite a few Apple products.

One can even go to a store and buy software! And get it for the same price the rest of the world pay's.
What we have in Apple products now will not be replaced with Apple/Mac when it is time to do so. And I hope many more people do the same , and look around at what is out in the world.

[jsjohnson]

Honestly, if a program doesn't contain malware....who is Apple to prevent a user from installing it? While I personally think some programs are in poor taste, this is a country built on personal freedom. Although I use WinMob (and like it most of the time) I have a LOT of respect for what Apple has done, it's and amazing feat - that said, I also don't need someone to hold my hand. I had Sirius and a lot of people didn't like Howard Stern, ok then don't go to channel 100 -simple eh? Don't like CSI's violence, use a remote. I think the best option is to assign ratings to the programs (like movies), and open the floodgates to developers. If it doesn't hurt the hardware let the masses determine it's value.

Whether you agree or not (see my post about RESPECTING Apple), this is fact....I'm a PC and I like CHOICE!

[kcotham]

Why is this news? Who gives a small rodent's derrière what Trent Reznor thinks?! All he does is make noise. And this time, he's not putting the noise on one of his albums. Ignore him and maybe he'll just go away.

[kevinskrause]

MARCH....

[jrenyolds]

I think some people are missing the difference between the Apple App store and the iTunes store. The App store does not have the parental controls on it right now, which is why they "review" the new apps as they come in. They seem to have missed the "objectional" material the first time around, and some how found it when they looked at the update.

This is to protect themselves from suing parents when they find a bad word on Timmy's new iPhone and come running in with their lawyers. If a parent has enabled the Parental Controls in iTunes, then their kids cannot download the NIN songs that have explicit lyrics. But they would be able to get the NIN app and listen to the bad words. So Apple has pulled it until they can figure out what they are doing.

Now, with all that said, I think it has taken Apple way too long to get the parental controls working. As an adult, I should be able to put what I want on my phone. And if my kids have an iPhone, I should be able to control what they put on their phone. It shouldn't be Apple's responsibility to protect my kids.

[jsjohnson]

Like little Timmy can't access porn.com all day long on his iPhone's browser. Put a rating system into effect, restrict the user accounts of minors and end of story. What prevents Timmy from downloading songs with explicit lyrics? Does Apple have anything in place to restrict that?

[jrenyolds]

Apple does have restrictions that can be setup to prevent someone from downloading songs with explicit lyrics from within iTunes. And there are limited restrictions on the iPhone to keep those songs from being played even if they are already on the iPhone.

The problem with the current iPhone restrictions is they are all or nothing. You can prevent Timmy from looking at porn.com, but by doing that, you disable the browser completely. You can stop him from installing apps, but then the app store is gone. They need to have better control over the restrictions. Disabling the browser on the phone isn't the best way to control what websites someone goes to.

[zyxxy]

Well, sounds like the iPhone is broken then. Second point, what the hell is any parent thinking that they buy an iPhone for their minor child? Retarded. A kid that age needs nothing more than a basic phone, maybe with text. Give a kid a phone that comes with a mandatory data plan? Some parents have abrogated responsibility.