Craigslist founder: No plans to shut down Erotic Services

In the wake of the murder of Craigslist-advertising masseuse Julissa Brisman, and the arrest of Philip Markoff, Craig Newmark and Jim Buckmaster of Craigslist gave interviews Friday to Martin Bashir of ABC's Nightline.

Their attitude was both defiant and a little uncomfortable.

Bashir asked Newmark whether he was a law-abiding citizen of America, to which the Craigslist founder said he was "very consistent" about that.

As the interviewer read out a few Craigslist ads and asked him if he thought they were ads for prostitution, Newmark replied: "Probably." He said that if there are ads of a criminal nature on the site, he wants help to get rid of them immediately.

Craigslist founder Craig Newmark

(Credit: CC Top Rank Online Marketing/Flickr)

Asked if Craigslist facilitates prostitution, Newmark said: "I wouldn't put it that way, no." Which did seem a little like the answer of a politician.

But when asked about whether, in the light of crime associated with Craigslist, he intended to make any changes to the site, perhaps closing down the Erotic Services section, Newmark leaned heavily on Craigslist's roots.

"The decisions we make on our site are consistently based on feedback from the entirety of the community," he said.

However, he did seem to leave the smallest of crack open for a change of heart: "That feedback changes over time."

Bashir then wondered whether the idea of donating proceeds from the Erotic Services section to charity might seem a little strange.

"Do you think," he asked Buckmaster, "that charities will welcome donations from adverts where people promise to beat each others' backsides till they bleed?"

Buckmaster replied, somewhat nervously: "We'll be making public the donations that are available to charities and they can contact us if they want to take advantage of that."

In this fascinating interview sequence, one could easily conclude that Craigslist wishes that the few in society would just stop behaving in a way that can affect so many so that Craiglist can just carry on with its business.

Unfortunately, the few in society aren't so easily persuaded.

[SlimGem]

The people who advertise in this fashion will get no sympathy from me when things go horribly wrong for them. You live by the ***** - you die by the *****. Sorry about your luck.

[GotaFu]

LOL, funny and sad.

[bluemountain]

If you don't like erotic service don't visit there. If they shut this down in Craigslist, it will appear in other sites. Those who are against it are the ones who visit them and use them most.

[Understarsidream]

What's odd to me about the people who are clamoring for the erotic services section to be removed is the nut jobs would still be out there and find victims some other way. Craigslist just makes it easier to catch them.

[professionaladventurer]

Funny, they don't allow "weapons" and firearms, whatever that means to the founders, including "sniper scopes" which isn't even a real thing - I think they mean "rifle scopes". Even though "weapons" are legal to buy and sell person to person [for the most part] across the US and other countries where CL lists. Where as prostitution is illegal in every state (in NV you need a permit). I don't get it & I think it is a lame double standard. I recently had my own experience on CL and wrote about it here: http://proadventurer.blogspot.com/2009/04/craigslist-trade.html

[someotheroxford]

Interesting. What I've heard over at CL is that CL is a private site, and they just don't want to sell guns or pets among other things, or anything illegal either. Not for the law, just cause that's how they feel about it.

[ittesi259]

Actually its more like....we'll let people sell themselves....cause that just makes city cops and attorney generals mad....where as facilitating the sale of possibly black market firearms or permitting the selling by those who are not licensed to broker a firearms sale or trade will bring the wrath of the ATF and I'd rather not deal with that either.

[GotaFu]

Apples and Oranges. Prostitution is soley illegal based on "Morality" while "weapons" and "firearms: are based on violence and crime. I will take a prostitue over a firearm anyday, especially a blond one.

[trueseek1]

Great point professionaladventure. you just blew the lid on the hypocrisy of cragislist and their purposeful abuse of others for profit.

Gotafu, And I thought it was the illegal use of firearms that was banned, not the firearms instead :-) have you read our Constitution lately (Look up right to bear arms :-)

[mrpeacock]

i would not be so proud that prostitution is illegal while assault weapons are not. thats called a flaw in our national character. its rather sick i think. its the same problem on tv. no ******* for the kiddies but its ok if they see people killing "bad guys" .
oh just come out and say its the old so-called conservative (of 1950's values. not before) vs liberal ways of thinking. hell it started in san francisco. must be the devils work. ha.

[knowles2]

Just look at the bloke. He probably have a vested interest in keeping erotic section. Which by the way rarely course harm to anyone who is not useing them.

Why selling guns to people mean he could have the death innocents on his conscious if they are used in other high school killing spree.

[GotaFu]

trueseeker1, although constituition gives us a "right" to bare arms itdoes not says what arms we can bare. Point in fact laws do tell us what arms we can own, so "yes" certain states ban certain weopons. I cannot buy a new AK in California.

[taylor1277]

i dont think they should get rid of it,there are alot worse sites on the internet.Ones that have sex rooms-sex dungeons,if that is someones portay,then let them be.As in the case that has happened recently then that person should be held responsible.1 out of 1000's that get on Craigslist and meet doesnt mean we need to shut down the site.This guy was an animal and he needs to be dealt with.As for the other people,prostitutes included.If they do their business and it keeps them off the streets,then that is something else hidden behind a pandoras box we dont see,I am for whatever two people do on their own time,and no pyhsical harm is done or the two agree to whatever,to eachs own.

[Trerro]

Professionaladventurer, they don't sell weapons because those require background checks and registration, with laws on how to handle that varying from state to state, as well as which weapons are and aren't legal to own varying from state to state.

Suppose you buy a sword. Some states say as long as it isn't sold sharpened, no requirements are required. Some require you to present proof of age to the seller and a signature acknowledging you take responsibility for its use or misuse. Some allow sharpened blades up to a certain length, some don't allow anything sharp unless it can be used in your kitchen. What about double-edged blades? In some states that's automatically illegal, in some it lowers the allowed length of sharpness, in some they don't care, only length matters.

...and that's swords. Gun laws are far, FAR more complicated, and a site like craigslist simply doesn't have the resources to handle figuring out which sales are legal.

On the other hand, the only standard for 2 people meeting for sex is that it can't involve money, and everyone involved must consent. If you're posting an offer or replying to accept one, by definition, you've consented. As for the money standard, that's a pretty universal rule, and with only a single rule to watch out for, the chances users will flag an ad that violates it are rather high.

I think it weapon laws were consistent, they'd allow them, but as it stands, there's just too much crap to keep track of.

[professionaladventurer]

There are no states that require registration of a rifle scope (which CL refers to as a "sniper scope"). Not one. Yet it is prohibited from being listed on CL. Weapons laws are only complicated to those who are not interested in them. In Alaska private citizens can buy firearms with no background check. I personally have no stake in what is allowed for sale on CL. However, it's going to be hard for them to argue 1st Amendment in court (as they are being tested right now) when they prohibit "some" things but not other obvious illegal goods and services.

[Atlas_]

The people who own and run CL don't mind sexual perversion, and their contempt for laws regulating prostitution shows. I would like to see more sheriff's offices and police departments start busting Craig's List for facilitating criminal acts.

You Cannot Disregard Our Laws Forever.

I guess they better bust the newspaper and all the other classified ad sites. How about just staying off the site if you don't want to use those specific services.

[trueseek1]

Great point Atlas. Maybe our honorable officers of the law can now become smarter in capturing those who are purposefully abusing others so the victims and the perprators can get some help with their awful addictive choices.

[ponderertx]

Sure craigslist facilitates prostitution. Of course if you choose to look at it that way...so do cell phones, newspapers, hotels and digital cameras.

"Erotic Services" while distatsteful to some are not inherently illegal. Asking a company that runs a classifieds website to start making decisions on what vaguely worded or highly suggestive but non-explicit ads might be deemed illegal seems like a lot to ask.

I think the mechanism they have where anyone can flag any ad as innappropriate is probably a lot more effective anyway - and would tend to align the content with "community standards" which is what matters - heck prostitution itself isn't even totally illegal everywhere in this country.

Good points ponderertx!

[trueseek1]

That's like saying we should not stop a murderer because he used the cellphone to lure his victims because we would also have to hold the cellphone company accountable for murders. What a funny try to justify perversion at the expense of our women and children :-( Wake up. You are made for a much better life than the need to justify living in darkness of the mind and heart and body. There is a much better way of Love that satisfies without the need to hate others and pay for hurting another.

[gggg sssss]

@trueseek1 no. we should stop teh murderer, and THEN charge the phone company

[gggg sssss]

@ trueseek1 and while we are at it, lets turn the MPAA and RIAA loose on the phone and cable companies for facilitating software music and video piracy. Suddenly piracy, and communicating for the purposes of protitution will be legal.

[ponderertx]

Trueseek - this logic fails.

I'm not saying don't prosecute murderers. I AM saying that you don't and shouldn't prosecute AT&T because a murderer used a cell phone. If a rapist meets a victim at your church do you want to it shut down?

Craigslist is not a "prostitution website". It is a classifieds website for selling stuff, organized into sections. "Erotic Services" as a section actually serves a purpose in that it creates a place that people not interested in such services can avoid. Remove it and all the ads will move to the massage section - creating clutter for people that actually want a massage. Then when some bonehead whines about the massage section and they remove that - they'll just put their ads in the dating section under W4M. Remove every section and just have one big category for "stuff" and the ads will still appear.

So basically, know it or not, you are against people being able to post classifieds on the internet without going through an intermediary who will judge the morality and legality of their ad before posting it. I assume you want this person to be someone who shares your views?

[Capt_Sensible]

Here's a thought... might try legalizing prostitution and then oh, I don't know maybe we could regulate it and tax it and hmmm... maybe even the people who engage in it as a profession could pay taxes like the rest of us.

I've observed over time that the people who complain the loudest about "perversion" and "morals" are usually the biggest freaks out there.

They refer to prostitution as 'the oldest profession" for a reason and as long as there are people on this planet who aren't getting what they it will always be there.

Try complaining about something that really matters for once.

[trueseek1]

while we are at it, let's legalize stealing, lying, cheating and killing and earn taxes for every time someone breaks a contract, defrauds others and murders another human being. What an upside down thought process you sadly have chosen to live in at this time. May your mind be opened to God's Love and Grace before it's too late :-(

[blindmessiah]

@trueseek1: You so could points about legalizing stealing and lying are irrelevant to the topic at hand. When one look at the facts that legalizing an "occupation" which won't ever go away to protect those practicing is the most sensible. You and many like you hide behind god, and claim that people with logical thinking live in an upside down world. Well sir/madam, people who live in glass houses should not throw stones. That means you and others like you. What upside down world do you live in, where you believe there is an invisible man somewhere in the sky that can hear and see everything everyone does.

So yes, to hell with the human beings who need protecting because it is the only thing that they know how to and can do and if they want to do it. Punish those who do it against the wills of other people. And stop flaunting your god in the faces of those who do not believe in him or her. Use your brain. Logic dictates the proper way to deal with things. You should preach that your god loves everyone regardless and only HE or SHE can forgive others sins. Who are you or anyone like you to condemn those that do things which you find distastefull?

Enough said. Think for goodness sake think!

[techgolem]

Glad to see I´m not the only one who writes pointless blog posts sometimes. I guess it´s just those days when you have nothing really to say.

[emdale]

Watched the interview video. Craig Newmark seemed really uncomfortable, perhaps because he is offering in Cragslist defense a series of statements that are mutually incompatible.

Apart from that, his statement: "The decisions we make on our site are consistently based on feedback from the entirety of the community," translates into "We have no ethics apart from the will of our community" ....I guess it's a good thing that Newmark's "community" wasn't Gemany between 1934 and 1945.

Although the "community" is supposed to create policy it is also the other way round: the demographic is a result of the policies (and content) of Craigslist. So certain types of individuals will increasingly populate Craigslist, while those who don't want to be in a community that includes sex trade, etc. will find other communities.

Craigslist will develop a reputation that will be hard to repair ...if Newmark ever wants to do so. On the other hand, for anyone who isn't bothered by a business model that traffics in human weakness, the Internet remains a good place to make money.

[trueseek1]

"anyone who isn't bothered by a business model that traffics in human weakness" - What a sad place for a soul to be. May God have Mercy and we pray for those who are in such darkened state to find the Light of True Love one day soon before they hurt others more as well as themselves.and may our wives, daughters, sisters and Mothers not have to suffer while we allow such evil to continue unchecked.

"Craigslist will develop a reputation that will be hard to repair " - We can only hope that majority of our population that has kept some sanity in moral Love towards our women and men, will wake up and not reward craigslist for their abominable disregard for our precious lives and our family members.

[faceless128]

i wish these reporters asked the people who made guns tough questions like these after every shooting.

[SWtester]

Craigslist does not do adequate "policing" of its' site..people overpost/spam, do bogus ads, etc. all the time on Craigslist. It's too bad it's put most of the more respectable advertising outlets out of business. You get what you pay for..in the case of Craigslist you often pay nothing..and get the same!
I think Craigslist had a good basic premise, but is TOO dependent on community "self-policing", which in some cases just won't ever happen!

[Sabroson]

I run several classified ads websites and have a hard time blocking sex ads. It is not easy for me and I can't imagine how hard it should be for Craigslist, which is a giant in this business.

[brentrbrian]

So, I guess every city that has prostitutes operating along there streets is also guilty (conspiracy to commit), the city maintains the streets ... and if the street was not there, there could be no "street walkers".

Questions like that will lead you places you don't want to go.

[inachu1]

I posted all kinds of things legit and the stuff always gets deleted.
I once posted a for sale ad. My friend was selling her last puppy .
Everything in the guidelines fit.

the ad was up for 15 minutes then deleted. For no reason at all.
I wanted to sell my pc........ that ad was also deleted for no reason.

[webguy02]

FYI, craigslist does not allow the sale of animals.

[trueseek1]

How awful that our sisters and daughters now have to have to have sex trafficking made available so readily via a CEO that openly violates all our laws and how sad that our men are such wimps that they have to pay to abuse a woman rather than treat our women as fellow friends on the planet with special glory given to them by our Loving and Just Creator God.

LORD Have Mercy on us sinners and we are so sorry for abusing the gift of freewill to abuse others in such awful ways.

[mrpeacock]

nonsense. the ceo of craigslist does not openly or closedly violate any laws.
telephones are used in crimes. do we say telephones companies are to blame for calls made with them to facilitate crime? NO!
don't be so silly.
may the Good Lord inspire some common sense in you headless chicken littles.

[gggg sssss]

I guess if YOUR sister is advertsing there then your protetations are understood. Otherwise, leave them alone. You seem religeous - look up the rest of "let him who is without sin..."

[mrpeacock]

one can utilize telephones to commit a crime. does that mean telephones facilitate crime? as always, technology is an aid and a nuisance. i dont think his answer was "like a politician" in any way, shape, or form. Shall we close our world to prevent the Few from abusing the Many? Shall we all live without rights so a few key people can control certain dubious threats against us?
Generally, i do NOT like the tone of voice Chris uses in his articles. its like the inner sanctimonious prude is just waiting to leap out. He's probably a pervert ;)

[sacramentograpevine]

I run 2 classified sites and have zero problems.

It is very easy to not have this and other problems.
1. Make this your policy.
2. Block all IP's from Nigeria.
3. No second chance, if ads are posted to scam people, ban the user and their IP.
4. No second chance, if hooker ads are posted, ban the user and their IP.
5. No second chance, if drug ads are posted, ban the user and their IP.
6. No second chance, if pervert ads are posted, ban the user and their IP.

You can visit us for 100% hooker free ads.

[gggg sssss]

of course dsl users with dynatic IPs and the few dialup users will still get in

[Heebee Jeebies]

The selling of ones rear for money should be up to the seller and the buyer and not some goodie goodies that don't get layed enough or think that unless they open their mouths and force their beliefs on others god won't let them in to heaven.

It is time to legalize it and tax it. Now if you want to make something that is worse than selling ones rear for money illegal how about making the rape of customers by credit card companies and banks illegal. That too me is far worse than a $20 blow job.

Robert