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July 15, 2008 11:19 AM PDT

Apple suit: Psystar's Mac clones must be recalled

by Ina Fried

Apple's list of grievances against Mac clone maker Psystar spans 16 pages, but, in the end, its argument boils down to the one expected. Psystar, Apple says, had no right to do what it did, and should be stopped and forced to pay.

Psystar's Open Computer, as seen shortly after its unboxing at CNET.

(Credit: CNET News)

In its lawsuit, a copy of which was seen by CNET News courtesy of our colleagues at ZDNet, Apple alleges copyright infringement, inducement of copyright infringement, trademark infringement, as well as a couple of other legal claims. It seeks any profits earned by Psystar from its Open Computer, triple damages for willful acts, a permanent injunction against the sale of the product, as well as recall of those units already sold.

"Apple licenses the use of its Macintosh operating system software for use only on Apple-labeled hardware," the Mac maker says in the suit (click here for PDF) adding that the only way to get a full version of the Mac OS is on a new machine. The boxed software product, it says, is only an upgrade version, valid only for upgrading an existing, Apple-branded Macintosh.

Apple argues that by selling the Open Computer in conjunction with a copy of the Mac OS, Psystar both infringed on Apple's copyright and induced purchasers to also violate Apple's copyright.

News.com Poll

Apple v. Psystar
Will Apple prevail in court against the clone maker?

Yes
No
Who cares? I use another OS.



View results

The infringement, Apple says, "is and continues to be intentional, willful, and in conscious disregard of Apple's rights." It also alleges that its use of Apple's trademarks "is likely, if not certain, to deceive or cause confusion or mistake" over whether there is a connection between Apple and Psystar.

A Psystar employee told CNET News on Tuesday that no one was available to comment on Apple's suit.

However, Apple charges that Psystar owners and managers have admitted in public statements their knowledge of the existence of Apple's software license agreement and its terms.

Because the infringements were willful, Apple says it is entitled to triple damages.

A status conference in the case is set for October.

Mark A. Goldstein, a lawyer with the Westlake Village, Ca.-based SoCal IP Law Group, said Apple's case appears to be a "slam dunk."

"In view of the Grokster ruling, it's hard to see any viable argument (for Psystar)," he said.

"If Psystar only sold hardware without an OS or only with Ubuntu or MS XP, then the case would be wholly different," he said. "They could assert that there are substantial non-infringing uses. That is, a hardware maker/reseller should be able to sell a computer that can run multiple operating systems."

"That they are selling Apple OS leaves them open for direct and contributory copyright infringement," Goldstein added.

John Ferrell, chairman of the intellectual property practice at Carr & Ferrell, also wondered what legal theory Psystar will used to defend their cloning of the Mac.

"Using copies of Apple's operating system to build Apple look-alikes was thought to have been clearly settled in the 1983 landmark copyright decision that put the last of the significant Apple clone makers, Franklin Computer, out of the Apple business," he said in an e-mail interview. "Apple's Macintosh products are protected by a wide range of intellectual property assets including copyrights, patents, and trademarks. It's no (coincidence) that there have been no successful Macintosh 'me-too' manufacturers in the past quarter of a century."

Ferrell added that One Infinite Loop, the road that stretches through Apple's headquarters, "is littered with the wrecked business plans of companies that have tried to copy and sell Apple look-alikes."

During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft. E-mail Ina.
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by humanssssss July 15, 2008 11:50 AM PDT
Infringe on copyright. That's hogwash, it's not like Psystar goes into the operating system and modify it in drastic ways.

Infringe on trademark. Psystar didn't call the computer Apple. What trademark? Apple should lose its trademark because Apple is a dictionary word. I wish someone will sue Apple so it loses its trademark that way it can't go after anyone for Apple trademark infringement. Apple will have to change its name or allow other companies to use Apple as its name, this will cause it to lose A LOT of money. If I have money, I'm going to do that.

Steve Jobs need to go to jail. He kept on suing people left and right. Karma is going to come to you batch.
Reply to this comment
by dp07 July 15, 2008 1:00 PM PDT
Actually YES, Psystar did go into the operating system and modify it. They created their own altered software updates (adapted from Apple's update version 10.5.4). After that the Apple legal wrath descended. They could have been successful, but they were really stupid about the boundaries of software copyright. Here comes a whole lot of pain Psystar.
by inachu July 16, 2008 5:11 AM PDT
I do not own one but if I did I would keep it. Just buy it with cash. Drive to the mans house or business and offer cash.
by uk-bob July 16, 2008 7:45 AM PDT
hogwash? I think not. This looks to be another comment by someone that doesn't understand the lasw, doesn't have respect for intellectual property and probably is a windows user that copies and distributes software. Naive and adolescent comment
by thedreaming July 16, 2008 1:08 PM PDT
Originally, they called it the OpenApple, so that's trademark infringement.
by tubageekster July 16, 2008 3:04 PM PDT
Actually, Apple is capitalized. The dictionary word apple is not. There is a difference. In addition Apple is not the full name.
by Renegade Knight July 15, 2008 11:54 AM PDT
Overall it's mostly hot air. However it will test the waters in the shrink wrap lisence agreement. For example can the maker of a hammer lisence it's use with the restriction of only hitting nails and never cracking walnuts?

Outside of software products have uses beyond their intent and those uses are considered reasonable. A screwdriver to open a can of paint for example.

Personally I hope Apple loses. If they win (and the merit of that is absed on the "ugrade" nature of the product vs. a full copy which apparently you can't buy) I hope it's limited entirly to the OS so Psystar can send out XP and some instructions on how the owner can add versitility to their computer by installing the Mac OS should they have it laying around.
Reply to this comment
by exmsft July 15, 2008 3:28 PM PDT
There is NO way Psystar is going to win this. No way. It's Apple's IP to license as they see fit. Psystar clearly violated the license - your twisted metaphors aside, Psystar is history.
by skotmiller July 15, 2008 5:00 PM PDT
Yes manufacturers do have restrictions on what you can do with a hammer. A hammer is made for putting nails in or taking them out. Thats all they make them for. If you use a hammer to bang in a piece of wood and it bounces back and stabs you in the head, the Manufactures are not responsible for making sure they are safe for that use. It's called liability.
by tundraboy July 15, 2008 8:47 PM PDT
If you bought a hammer that required you to agree to a license that restricted you to hitting only nails then yeah, stupid you who would buy such a licensed hammer has to hit only nails.

But if you observe closely, no such licensed hammer is available for sale. Because no one would buy it. Your example, though seemingly cunning, is moot.
by lenrooney July 16, 2008 2:31 AM PDT
The shrink wrap lisence [sic] probably won't come up too much. From the article:

"Apple alleges copyright infringement, inducement of copyright infringement, trademark infringement, as well as a couple of other legal claims."

There's plenty to sink Psystar with without even mentioning the EULA
by althebear972 July 15, 2008 12:13 PM PDT
Microsoft should write their TOS agreements to prevent Windows from running on Apple computers too. Why does Apple think it's OK to encourage that practise, and yet, when another company does the same thing, Apple gets a hissy-fit.

It's funny how people trash MS when Apple is the same or worse.
Reply to this comment
by thelemurking July 15, 2008 12:47 PM PDT
Exactly! They will let other OS run on their hardware, but not the other way around. So why is it OK for Apple to do it, but complete evil BS when someone else does it?

Apple is just as bad as MS.
by Penguinisto July 15, 2008 12:47 PM PDT
There is a bit of a semantic difference... Microsoft Windows has no clause in its EULA that prevents you from installing it on pretty much anything you want to.
by dehall622 July 15, 2008 1:02 PM PDT
you say that like it's some unfortunate consequence that apple has that clause in there
by exmsft July 15, 2008 3:30 PM PDT
Huh? That doesn't even make sense.
by BrendanK July 15, 2008 5:05 PM PDT
Ah, but there is one important difference. MS's Windows business is built around selling windows to other people to install on their machines. Apple OTOH, designed their OS as an add on to their hardware. Both are vigerous in pushing their own business models, which means MS is meant to be installable on anything, but OSX is meant to install on nothing but a Mac.
by tubageekster July 16, 2008 3:07 PM PDT
Yeah I can see that... "You may install this operating system on any computer in the world except for a Apple-made computer. Wait... that doesn't make sense.
by sshtdifferentday July 15, 2008 12:14 PM PDT
Unfortunately it looks like apple holds the whole deck. The license for all the Apple OS software states its an upgrade that can only be used on an Apple, Inc. made computer. If you don't follow those instructions you are violating the EULA. In addition, since Psystar does not have a license from Apple to put its OS on its machines, it is using the Apple, Mac, OS X, (whatever cat they are up to now) trademarks illegally to further their company's sales. That is copyright infringement.

Slam dunk for apple.
Reply to this comment
by HairySack July 15, 2008 12:56 PM PDT
It's not as clear cut as that. The crux of the issue is weather Psystar has created a product that's primary purpose is to induce copyright infrigement. Keep in mind that they did not sell a computer with OS X installed on it; they sold a computer that was capable of running OS X and a copy of OS X itself. It was up to the user to install the OS once the products were recieved. Of course it's probably a flimsy arument to use and I seriously doubt that the case will even see the light of day in court. It's far more likely that Psystar will pack up shop and you will never hear of them again.

I get the feeling that Psystar is just some guy selling computers out of his garage. In that case, it is kind of ironic that Apple was founded in much the same way, although with a legitimate product to sell.
by markur69 July 15, 2008 1:11 PM PDT
I bought OS X Leopard new and installed it clean without a need for existing system on my G4 iMac 1.25ghz... Its a complete system, not an upgrade. Apple is lying if they try and hold onto that bunk

I then used it to install on my PC box (i.e. OpenMac Psystar) I own a license, and how is apple to stop me from installing it? they can suck it!
by Perry_Clease July 15, 2008 1:21 PM PDT
" they sold a computer that was capable of running OS X and a copy of OS X itself. It was up to the user to install the OS once the products were recieved. "

They also offered to pre-install OSX on the the PCs
by skotmiller July 15, 2008 4:54 PM PDT
Hey Mark did you happen to actually read the story? Or, did you want to show how useless your comment was (for us readers). In case you missed it:

"Apple licenses the use of its Macintosh operating system software for use only on Apple-labeled hardware," the Mac maker says in the suit (click here for PDF) adding that the only way to get a full version of the Mac OS is on a new machine. The boxed software product, it says, is only an upgrade version, valid only for upgrading an existing, Apple-branded Macintosh.


Since you installed Leopard on your "iMac", you had already bought a license for the Mac OS Upgrade, when you bought your iMac. No matter what version of Mac OS you are running on a Mac, it is upgradable to the latest copy, you already own the license. You bought it when you bought the computer. And that license would still work across different platforms (PPC, Intel) as long as the Software and Hardware are compatible.

And for the PC Box, well you just publicly admitted that you broke the law. If I were you, I would now be praying that Psystar wins this case. You could be next. They have the proof. It would be another "Slam Dunk"

Think you'll read the story next time?
by Renegade Knight July 16, 2008 11:17 AM PDT
Slam Dunk? Who makes Apples Computers for Apple? How does Apple get around it's own constraints to install it's OS on Someone Elses Computer or is the key that Apple Logo also made by a company other than Apple? Maybe it's the Apple Tech who has the magic wand that turns a Chinese Made Computer by a contract manufacturer (Like Lenovo was to IBM) into a "Genuine Apple".

The Counter Argument is that using the same componenets to make the same computer that the software recognizes as legit IS And apple computer...A Rose by another name.

If only Psystar had a bright attorney on staff. IT's not like they couldn't anticipate Apple's suing.

Given there used to be clone companies who made Apple Computers er...Clones I'm sure that Pystar for a buck and a donut could buy that right from them.
by sinaloghavi July 15, 2008 12:37 PM PDT
I don't think they sold a whole lot of them since they ran into problems within 24 hours of launch. If so triple damage shouldn't be much!

sina loghavi
Reply to this comment
by markur69 July 15, 2008 1:12 PM PDT
I was one of the early ones to get one. 10 days in. Have it and it screams running the latest 10.5.4. I installed the system myself with a legit copy i purchased in october. Let Apple come and pry the box from my dead hands!
by SmBizMan July 15, 2008 12:41 PM PDT
I secretly wish that someone from MS is fronting the money for this company, to draw attention to the wayward ways that Apple really does business.

Apple's licenses are socialist version of software.
Reply to this comment
by exmsft July 15, 2008 3:30 PM PDT
Um, no. They are "capitalist" version (sic) of software.
by setgo July 15, 2008 5:49 PM PDT
Wow SmBizMan, you just get out of college? "Socialist version of software"?
by T543212345 July 15, 2008 6:57 PM PDT
I think SmBizMan is essentially correct if you overlook the small semantic problem. The Apple model is rooted in centralized control of everything including both Hardware and Software. (That's why it is so ironic that Rush Limbaugh is a mac-head.) Apple can claim fewer crashes, hardware incompatibilities, tighter code, etc. because it does not have to try to anticipate a gillion different hardware configurations. MS (love it or hate it) may TRY to be a monopoly, but it is essentially rooted in a free market model that allows people to run their software on whatever machine they want.
by Kev Orng July 16, 2008 12:38 PM PDT
That word, I do not think it means what you think it means.
by montecristo1 July 15, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
Infringement on trademark? Entitled to tripled damages? Come on Apple, you should know a thing or two about infringement... you released a product nationwide knowing you didn't own the rights to the name...the iphone. That's right, Cisco owns iphone trademark. What about HTC Touch smartphone? HTC has registered "Touch" as a worldwide trademark. That didn't stop you naming your product the iTouch. Apple doesn't consider other companies when they infringed on their trademarks, but if you do to theirs...lawsuit! Here is more: Apple has been sued for patent infringement over the iPhone's visual voice mail feature;Apple sued over vague user interface patent ;Apple "knowingly infringed on copyrights", including the copyright of an artistic photographer and a song written in 1979;Apple sued over alleged iTunes patent infringement;Cisco sues Apple over iPhone name;Apple sued over iPhone Caller ID for Patent Infringement;Apple sued over iPhone touch-screen kybd... What most people are unaware is that Apple likes to settle out of court very quietly. It did so with Cisco. And with the sale of the iphone, ipod, and the itouch it seems they make a profit even if they settled the case. Apple should work with Psystar in giving them licences. Stop with the whining about copyright infringements! Like they say, when you point a finger at someone else- you have three pointing back at you.
Reply to this comment
by skotmiller July 15, 2008 4:36 PM PDT
WOW Really? Apple has a product called the iTouch. What is it?

RIght there is where I stopped reading your post, you obviously don't know what you are talking about.

"Arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics. - Even if you win, you're still retarded." ?
by tech_junkie14 July 15, 2008 5:37 PM PDT
Apple didn't name their product 'iTouch'. It's called an iPOD TOUCH!!!!
Do some research before you post stupid mistakes like that.
iTouch! ridiculous!
by setgo July 15, 2008 5:57 PM PDT
Actually montecristo1, Apple does consider all of their actions. They have deep pockets and a team of high-powered lawyers that know how to settle when needed. I'm sure the money they paid Cisco to use iPhone has been recouped twice over. That's what happens in big business every day, you just don't know about it. Look-up how many companies including Apple have had to pay for use of "visual voice-mail".
by skotmiller July 15, 2008 6:41 PM PDT
In addition to setgo's comment.

Apple is now trying to get the iPhone trademark. Cisco could very well end up paying Apple back if they really want to use the iPhone name. You think Apple is stupid. They had this planned from day one. Now that the iPhone will be know throughout modern history (yes it will be, face it). There is NO WAY for Cisco to say a product of theirs can be called an iPhone and succeed without being mistaken for Apples now famous iPhone. Thats what a trademark protects and Cisco handed this to Apple when they let them use the name. Everyone make out but Apple get what they wanted.
by Perry_Clease July 15, 2008 12:42 PM PDT
"Microsoft should write their TOS agreements to prevent Windows from running on Apple computers too. "

Yes, because using Apple's Boot Camp hurts the sale of MicroSoft's PC sales.
Reply to this comment
by rk2469 July 15, 2008 1:31 PM PDT
how does it hurt microsoft because apple boot camp users have to buy windows license? btw, microsoft doesn't sell pc. your whole thing is wrong. there is nothing right or factual about your comment.
by NateBiggity July 15, 2008 2:53 PM PDT
I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic to make fun of that other person's comment. And by "PC sales" I'm assuming he's referring to selling copies of Windows to PC users.
by tundraboy July 15, 2008 9:03 PM PDT
What is this thing called 'irony'?
by Perry_Clease July 16, 2008 8:03 AM PDT
Yes, I was being sarcastic
by Spimby July 16, 2008 11:23 AM PDT
It clearly encourages the use of a competitor's product (apple's) rather than the product of one of their business partners.
by montecristo1 July 15, 2008 12:44 PM PDT
Infringement on trademark? Entitled to tripled damages? Come on Apple, you should know a thing or two about infringement... you released a product nationwide knowing you didn't own the rights to the name...the iphone. That's right, Cisco owns iphone trademark. What about HTC Touch smartphone? HTC has registered "Touch" as a worldwide trademark. That didn't stop you naming your product the iTouch. Apple doesn't consider other companies when they infringed on their trademarks, but if you do to theirs...lawsuit! Here is more: Apple has been sued for patent infringement over the iPhone's visual voice mail feature;Apple sued over vague user interface patent ;Apple "knowingly infringed on copyrights", including the copyright of an artistic photographer and a song written in 1979;Apple sued over alleged iTunes patent infringement;Cisco sues Apple over iPhone name;Apple sued over iPhone Caller ID for Patent Infringement;Apple sued over iPhone touch-screen kybd... What most people are unaware is that Apple likes to settle out of court very quietly. It did so with Cisco. And with the sale of the iphone, ipod, and the itouch it seems they make a profit even if they settled the case. Apple should work with Psystar in giving them licences. Stop with the whining about copyright infringements! Like they say, when you point a finger at someone else- you have three pointing back at you.
Reply to this comment
by exmsft July 15, 2008 3:31 PM PDT
Trademark != copyright. Apple settled with Cisco - moot point. Psystar CLEARLY violated the EULA. Bye, bye Psystar!
by Penguinisto July 15, 2008 12:46 PM PDT
Damn... the nuclear option. I sincerely doubt they'll get anywhere outside of (possibly) the software updates issue.

OTOH, Given the relative sizes, it'll likely turn out that Psystar will probably go bankrupt before the outcome arrives.

As for recalling them? Heh... fat chance.

/P
Reply to this comment
by Perry_Clease July 15, 2008 1:02 PM PDT
"Damn... the nuclear option. I sincerely doubt they'll get anywhere outside of (possibly) the software updates issue."

Probably all Apple needs is to win one of the items in the lawsuit in order to get Psystar from selling the Mac clones.

Anyway, it is up to real lawyers, judges, and the people on the jury should it ever get to that far.
by markur69 July 15, 2008 1:13 PM PDT
try prying mine from my dead hands Apple... Any judge worth his salt should laugh at most of this suit..
by Penguinisto July 15, 2008 4:24 PM PDT
@Perry: Yep... it'll have to be decided in court, and it probably will take but one win from the pile to crash the whole cart. I don't see Apple settling out-of-court offhand - Psystar would have to basically gut itself to satisfy such an agreement, and Apple can't let them win for any reason if they're truly out to stop any other clone companies from forming.

One angle is, what does this mean for sites such as osxx86.org? Now they're a hobbyist site, mind, so there's no commercial angle at all. Considering that Apple hasn't gone after them in spite of their being around a lot longer, I think that the line concerns commercial sales (of either updates or the installs...)
by Vegaman_Dan July 15, 2008 8:07 PM PDT
I'd love to see how they will enforce the return of all systems Psystar has sold to date. Go right ahead Apple- go to people's homes and seize the machines. Control what people think, punish those who think different, cleanse and purify the race.


There was a country in Europe that did that in the 40's. Perhaps you might be familiar with the black uniforms with red armbands with 'SS' on them? Hmm.

by ballssalty July 15, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
All Pystar had to do was not install the OS but provide instructions on doing so while providing both the computer and the OS. Therefore it is not violating any trademarks or copyrights. If they did that they would win this case. But if they are opening up the software and installing it on the system using a copy that is upgrade only, then they've got a problem.
Reply to this comment
by ballssalty July 15, 2008 12:52 PM PDT
All Psystar had to do was not install the OS but provide instructions on doing so while providing both the computer and the OS. Therefore it is not violating any trademarks or copyrights. If they did that they would win this case. But if they are opening up the software and installing it on the system using a copy that is upgrade only, then they've got a problem.
Reply to this comment
by applusr July 15, 2008 11:30 PM PDT
I might be going out on limb, but would you have bought a computer from the if All Psystar did provide instructions.
by stalexone July 15, 2008 12:53 PM PDT
So is Psystar simply running a store in which the computer is sold on one hand and the software separately (uninstalled)? What they should have done is completely decouple the sale of one from the other (just like walking into any store) and let the user figure out that Open Computer really means open computer". They should have not advertised that OS X WOULD work on the open computer. They should have offered no support. To be really safe, they should have disallowed the sale of OS X even in the same shopping cart as the Open Computer (or placed them on separate invoices). They took none of these precautionary measures, got cocky, and are now screwed. On the other hand, it is Apple's fault if their "Upgrade" product actually installs on a machine with a blank hard drive. That is stupid, misleading, and basically shows extreme negligence...so they do not have this one "in the bag" as much as they'd like. By not following standards long established by other OS companies re: the Upgrade process, Apple is also clearly at fault....aiding and abetting the unlawful act. For example, I could go out and buy a computer that (by accident) allows me to install OS X (as it COULD have all 100% compatible OS X components). I'd be breaking the law by installing OSX but wouldn't know it. Would Apple have a case? I don't think so. But in Psystar's situation, they made it known that this system could run OS X and that is therefore a problem for their case.
Reply to this comment
by ittesi259 July 15, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
Actually while it will install on a blank harddrive....it will not run on non apple hardware by performing a hardware check before the OS loads. Psystar is using either software or firmware (I honestly don't know which) to fool this feature of the OS. One could assume there is something hardware related on an Apple mainboard to secure this in a hardware sense.....but thats speculation on my part.
by fokkwp July 15, 2008 1:01 PM PDT
And of course Apple Music initially sued Apple Computer when they first stole their name, and that went on a long time. I assume Apple waited to see if Psystar would crash and burn, then probably tried to throw them off with a system update. I bet Apple would have preferred the lesson to be "Only Apple knows how to make a Mac" rather than "Apple has bigger lawyers than anyone else ("Sue Different" tm)."
Reply to this comment
by ralfthedog July 15, 2008 3:09 PM PDT
Apple Music is primarily a music company. Apple Computers is primarily a computer business. Apple Foods can use that name until they start making most of their money from computers. Apple Foods could even sell a computer or two. Just not as their primary business.

Apple Computer does sell some music. They gave some money to Beatles and now everything is good.
by tech_junkie14 July 15, 2008 5:40 PM PDT
That's what I'd like to think.
by v0dkacomradwe July 15, 2008 1:07 PM PDT
This is just a repeat of the decades old Apple-compatible saga (remember "Franklin", "Orange" et al?) from which Apple apparently learned NOTHING. Apple stifled openness and innovation on the personal computer then, and they are doing it now, in spite of making "appearances" that they are "not that kind of company". Then there's the urban myth that Bill Gates Let me tell you, I LOVED buying a decked-out Apple ][http://GS for $3,500 shortly after it came out and used to be a HUGE Apple fan starting with the Apple 1's...only about 1 year later after I bought that |http://GS for $3,500 shortly after it came out and used to be a HUGE Apple fan starting with the Apple 1's...only about 1 year later after I bought that ][GS Apple officially terminated support for that ][GS and said they were promoting some crap called the "Mac" (and they were crap for a long time after it came out...they still are far as I am concerned). I hear the same thing happened with the Lisa and Apple /// they pushed SO hard to sell...and then turned their backs on. I will never forget those stunts and you shouldn't either! "But wait!!", the Apple fanboys and girls cry out! "Apple is supposed my anti-Microsoft, they encourage openness, and innovation...they are my anti-monopoly, my saviour in an otherwise mega capitalist society where I should feel safe to curl up next to my StarBucks extra crappy latte, my Mac Airhead and iPid Ninny" Yup Apple is sooo great...that's why they turned to Intel-based hardware and gave up their OEM Mac hardware garbage (it really was garbage!), got rid of the crappy OS known as OS9 (and its predecessors) to go to a Linux-based kernel in OS10, welded their iPhones shut, put crappy batteries in them forcing them to be taken in for service (what we're too stupid to change batteries?!), failed to make iPhones activate when you bought them, ah I could go on...what's the point?). The point is that Apple is a company that has managed to survive on a wing and a prayer, whose success is based on flashy trends rather than measurable, sustained success over decades like other major technology companies yes Microsoft included! When the iPod, iPhone, and Macintosh are no longer the "in thing" to have or better and cheaper alternatives come out (which is already happening)...you will see Apple retreat back into the darkness again like it did until several years ago but still somehow manage to eke out a living. This is WHY Apple MUST defend their short-term gains and fight those such as Psystar, because God forbid there are other smart people and companies in the world who might make a better, faster, and cheaper widget out there...and Apple must smash them all! Gee, until now I thought the Apple folks always blamed the Microsoft folks for being this way? How ironic. In the meantime, PCs in all their forms from various vendors with Windows or Linux with TONS of software will be sitting there, continually improving over time as it always has...without Apple's help.
Reply to this comment
by Dalkorian July 15, 2008 3:43 PM PDT
Wow, you really have issues with reality don't you. Go back to your winblows slavery, you are the only person interested in your warped version of reality.
by markur69 July 15, 2008 1:14 PM PDT
Looks like someone has overloaded or pulled plug on Psystar's domain... I was ont he forum earlier reporting about this and now I can't get in. Stay strong boys. Apple needs to be taught a lesson. I like Apple's software and system, but hell if I will be bullied by someone who has become way to corporate!
Reply to this comment
by exmsft July 15, 2008 3:34 PM PDT
Let's be pirates!
by applusr July 15, 2008 11:36 PM PDT
"hell if I will be bullied by someone who has become way to corporate!"

You are its called the government, and every other product out there.

Hell, lets all go on red and stop on green.
by ittesi259 July 15, 2008 1:17 PM PDT
Apple didn't claim EULA in it filing....it claimed copyright. And since Psystar is actually ALTERING the software (and I don't mean via some stupid bootloader, but actually modifying OS software patches to force them to work on their hardware) that is indeed a copyright violation.

Plus its also deceptive to a customer to tell them they have Mac OS X (which is true out of the box) but after software updates they do not have the exact same code as a person using an Apple Computer.
Reply to this comment
by trevorbsmith July 15, 2008 1:19 PM PDT
The people who are suggesting that Psystar can get away with what it has done are mistaken about the law. Copyright law gives someone ownership of software. That doesn't mean just one copy of it, it means every copy of it, EVEN IF Psystar makes those copies themselves. That's the whole point of it.

Psystar cannot sell copies of Mac OS X unless Apple gives them permission. To do so is to sell someone else's property and (presumably) make a profit from it. The alternative is that they only "gave away" Mac OS X and "sold" the computer. This is still illegal because in that case they would be giving away someone else's (Apple Inc.'s) property.
Reply to this comment
by RGMBill July 16, 2008 5:08 AM PDT
Sorry, but that's not true AT ALL.

It's a property called Fair Use. You have the right to use software so long as you have a legitimate version of it as you wish. You can then dispose (sell it) again as you wish; some software makers tried to put the kibosh on that and LOST. As long as Psystar doesn't charge more than the cost of the software, they AREN'T profitting from it (Apple is, because it's a legitimate boxed copy that was bought from Apple, either directly or indirectly). If Psystar installs the OS and boots the system, they have "Used the software", and have violated the EULA, but have NOT committed copyright infringement, because the copy installed was legitimate to begin with.

I'm sorry, but all these "Slam Dunk for Apple" comments are BS. It's VERY definitely not a slam dunk; Apple will win, though, because they have $$$$ for more lawyers, and Steve "Senator Palpatine" Jobs is sue happy... overwhelm them with legal fees to put them out of business before the actual case reaches trial, where they may win.
by Perry_Clease July 15, 2008 1:20 PM PDT
"Looks like someone has overloaded or pulled plug on Psystar's domain"

It was down earlier today and then back up later. It may be a technical problem, they seemed to have the same problem back when they first started violating Apple's EULA
Reply to this comment
by mlinder69 July 15, 2008 1:29 PM PDT
Regardless of how you feel about the laws, how apple does business is exactly why I would never buy a thing from them, they suck far worse than MS every thought about.
Reply to this comment
by exmsft July 15, 2008 3:35 PM PDT
Huh?
by Penguinisto July 15, 2008 4:27 PM PDT
Microsoft does the same thing to anyone and everyone business-wise who dares to violate their EULA. The GNU Foundation does the same thing to any entity who violates the GNU GPL.

...your point?
by applusr July 15, 2008 11:40 PM PDT
Internet Explorer...it has to be installed on windows.
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