Microsoft: IE 8 to support standards from the start

Aiming to demonstrate that its commitment to interoperability goes beyond fancy statements, Microsoft said Monday that it is shifting its plans for the next version of Internet Explorer to make the program more friendly to Web standards.

The software maker said that a planned standards compatibility mode will now be the default rendering engine when IE 8 makes its debut. Microsoft has already said that the new browser is capable of passing the Acid2 rendering test.

"We think that acting in accordance with principles is important, and IE 8's default is a demonstration of the interoperability principles in action," IE general manager Dean Hachamovitch said in a blog posting.

With IE 8, Microsoft plans to have three rendering modes: the new standards-compliant mode, the IE7 rendering engine, as well as an option for displaying older Web sites. Because of the default shift, Web sites that want IE 8 to use its IE7 engine will have to add a tag to their site's code.

Microsoft noted that there are some legal reasons for changing course. "While we do not believe there are currently any legal requirements that would dictate which rendering mode must be chosen as the default for a given browser, this step clearly removes this question as a potential legal and regulatory issue," Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith said in a statement.

At the end of last year, Opera complained to the European Commission about Microsoft's browser practices, and last week Microsoft was handed a record fine for its past noncompliance with EU dictates.

Microsoft hasn't said when the final version will be out, but a beta version of the browser is due out in the first half of the year. There also will likely be more browser news later this week, when Hachamovitch gives a keynote speech at the Mix '08 conference in Las Vegas.

[timber2005]

Glad to hear

Though I wasn't aware there were legal issues that might have aided in its acceptance, I'm glad that by default it will be by standards. If FF/Safari/Opera already render it well, so should IE8 so most sites won't be affected.

[lmasanti]

The problem is the inverse!

quote:<br />"If FF/Safari/Opera already render it well, so should IE8 so most <br />sites won't be affected."<br /><br />The problem is that lots of sites only render well in IE6-7!<br />So, the designer/programmer should do one of two things in <br />each page:<br />1) Put the compliance label to be rendered by IE6-7;<br />2) Rebuild the site to be Standards-compliant...

[lmasanti]

It's next best move would be....

quote:<br />"With IE8, Microsoft plans to have three rendering modes: the new <br />standards-compliant mode, the IE7 rendering engine, as well as <br />an option for displaying older Web sites."<br /><br />It's next best move would be... to directly use WebKit as the <br />Standards-compliant engine!<br />All problems solved!

[t8]

Dont give a toss

I converted to Firefox a couple of years ago.<br />IE8 can do whatever.

[tenbosch]

Ur k00l

Wow, really!! You're so cool and advanced. I think everyone should be like you. Mostly because Firefox is SOOO much better at the ACID tests then IE.

[cyberbian]

Doublespeak

If they truly had commitment to demonstrate, they would not need to shift their plans.<br /><br />That would be the true meaning of "commitment".<br /><br /><br />If you were committed, the original plans would be committed. They are not, ipso facto, you are not. <br /><br />It is a word which the executive committees have obviously not held a meeting to go over. It would be good to review in the postmortem, since the word committee is itself related to this concept. <br /><br />Perhaps if you view "standards" as a way to advance computing and the industry, rather than as a way to get a wrestling hold on everyone involved, you would be better able to "commit" MS.

[Sumatra-Bosch]

They're Lying

Ina, how can you take these animals seriously?

[Leria]

Because they are not lying

Everytime Microsoft says something, we have people like you who whine that 'they are lying'! Usually to be proven wrong when something like IE7 or IE8 comes out.

[MickBurke]

Why is anything that microsoft says news!?!

When was the last time they said something about a coming product that turned out to be true?

[Leria]

Vista

nuff' said in the subject line.

[cyberwalky]

Too little, too late

Personally, I think this is a good step, but it will take a lot more than standards compliance to get me to switch. I found a poll over here about this:<br /><br /><a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.scorepoll.com/story.php?title=Does_Internet_Explorers_compliance_with_standards_make_any_difference" target="_newWindow">http://www.scorepoll.com/story.php?title=Does_Internet_Explorers_compliance_with_standards_make_any_difference</a><br /><br />Lets send a message to Microsoft that they are on the right road, but lets get security, plugins and customization to match Firefox before expecting to prevent more attrition.

[silent.griffin]

Too late?

FYI, IE is still number 1 in terms of market share.

[kojacked]

Nothing but trolls here...

...move along, nothing to see here.

[Soonerwolf]

Another standard they should support

Microsoft, please renew support for the Netscape plug-in API. Ever since it was dropped in IE 5.5 Service Pack 2, many plug-in developers were locked out or made to jump through the less secure ActiveX hoop.<br /><br />Bring back the NSAPI set!

[alegr]

Plugin

Any plugin, be it ActiveX, Netscape-style, Firefox-style, can potentially contain security holes, and can be simply a trojan. You can trick a nerdy teenager into installing a rogue plugin, and now his puter is pwned. No matter if it's IE or Firefox, or Safari, or Opera, or whatever, as long as an unqialified user is allowed to install anything, he's doomed to be pwned.

[Penguinisto]

I'll believe it when I see it.

When IE8 passes the ACID tests, then I'll believe it.<br /><br />Until then, it's all just market-speak.<br /><br />(and wasn't there a lot of hype about IE7 supposedly being fully standards-compliant before it came out as well?)<br /><br />/P

[gp2792]

ok

time to believe it then...<br /><br /><a class="jive-link-external" href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoSkc6zPtLQ" target="_newWindow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoSkc6zPtLQ</a>

[jaytee0]

IE8 already passes Acid2

...they've already showed IE8 passing Acid2 in screenshots and videos. So, believe it.

[kojacked]

FUD

"(and wasn't there a lot of hype about IE7 supposedly being fully standards-compliant before it came out as well?)" -- The Great Penguinisto.<br /><br />No there were guys like you ******** about how it WAS NOT going to be standards compliant. Thanks for showing your baseless bias once again Penguinisto.

[mvpcarl]

Download it now...

I just downloaded it and it passes acid 2 with flying colors... Download it, then you will see it...<br /><br />*Insert foot in mouth now Penguin

[totocalimero]

Promises?

As usual with MSFT, I wouldn't bet the house on what they will actually deliver. Experience as shown many times in the past that there is always a huge difference between what the marketing spin doctors promise and what gets actually shipped.<br /><br />Don't hold your breath on this one either.

[beautypersoni]

My recent e-mail to MS...

Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2008<br />To: CNTUS.PRCS.NA.00.EN.TRA.BGL.CS.T01.CUS.00.WB @ css.one.microsoft.com<br />Subject: Internet Explorer 7 text sizing bug/incompatibility<br /><br />Message:<br /><br />Both website developers AND internet software developers should consider the users of their products when creating them. However, if a web developer stumbles with regards to this, it is NOT acceptable for software developers to use that as an excuse for their own shortcomings.<br /><br />Microsoft has faltered with regards to customer service and product quality expected from the company. While many people are working on "web standards", it is not reasonable to expect such standards to come into widespread effect in short order. It will take some time.<br /><br />Until then, however, consumers should not be "punished" by developers who seem to want to force standards into effect prematurely. Until then, developers should accommodate consumers with regards to "Ease of Access" (to use some Microsoft terminology).<br /><br />While there is more than one area where web and software developers have faltered, I am writing simply about one aspect of Internet Explorer 7 that Microsoft has failed to make work "properly" with regards to user-friendliness. (Whatever happened to that concept, anyway?)<br /><br />IE7's text size feature (which should allow users to resize website text from smaller to medium to larger) does not work with website text sized using pixel-sizing.<br /><br />Pixel-sizing has been used online for a long time. While some developers are currently attempting to set new standards which would make pixel-sizing obsolete (whether that is for better or worse is up to debate), pixel-sized text is still widely in use across the internet.<br /><br />However, rather than make the internet experience for consumers truly enjoyable, Microsoft has seemingly decided that new web standards being forced into use is a more important goal.<br /><br />Getting to the point, IE7 is not able to resize text sized using pixels. This is UNACCEPTABLE, and I request - nay, DEMAND - that Microsoft fix this problem with their internet browser. And, yes, this is a problem - a "bug", if you will. This is not an irrelevant or extraneous "quirk" that can be simply passed off to other developers and/or the consumers themselves.<br /><br />If a multi-billion dollar company with the reputation of Microsoft can not fix this "oversight", then I don't know what the future holds with regards to the internet truly becoming a part of everyday life for people all around the world.<br /><br />Christopher J. Carlson<br /><br />Anyhoo...

[ralfthedog]

Sorry to inform you but...

Sorry to inform you but, the Microsoft Janitorial Staff no longer reads customer email. Your comment was sent directly to the digital shredder.

[robsedor]

IE Pixel resizing

Chris,<br /><br />I'm no MS fanboy, but IE 7 does support text resizing for page text set in pixels.<br /><br />Can you site some examples of sites where pixel resizing doesn't work?<br /><br />Now if only MS would fix the Outlook 2007 HTML standards train-wreck. That program was a giant step backwards for standards compliance.<br /><br />Robert

[The_happy_switcher]

Wow, what cutting edge technology

And let me guess: It will support the loading of web pages, too, from the start?

[Seaspray0]

Absolutely

"And let me guess: It will support the loading of web pages, too, from the start?"<br /><br />Sure! The computer will fire up and start loading web pages before the installation of the OS. Not only that, but it won't even need an internet connection. The entire internet will be cached into the installation with a virtual updater which will allow you to browse news, sports, even weather generated from statistical analysis of backward compatible web pages. The menu's that used to say "please wait" are now replaced with the latest updates on Paris Hilton. Instead of configuring hardware, the virtual updater will configure all the best porn sites directly into your favorites. Once the process is complete, you press the new "STOP" button on the taskbar to log in (ctrl-alt-del is now new and improved to shut down the computer like it did in DOS). In the tips and tricks, you'll discover how to move up the system clock to a future date and get the scoop on which stocks will be the best investments.<br /><br />How's that for an answer?

[open-mind]

Does Browser Share Really Matter Any More?

Originally it seemed like Microsoft wanted the dominant browser mainly so they could derail Netscape+Java and the client-side Java virtual machine (JVM) concept.<br /><br />Later of course, they got so much market share that they successfully polluted many web standards also. But I wonder if that was a deliberate act or just shoddy programming.<br /><br />The JVM concept was an obvious threat to Windows, but web standards don't seem to be. If IE8 really is standards compliant, I don't see how it would hurt Microsoft at this point. In fact, it might help IE lose less ground.

[mvpcarl]

IE PASSED ACID 2

With the new beta of IE 8 released, it passes the Acid 2 Test immediately on download... FYI. Penguinesto, I thought you might find that interesting...

[The_Decider]

re

If it did, good for them, it only took them 10+ years to take standards seriously.<br /><br />Lets see if the pig passes when it is released officially. <br /><br />Of course, as long as it supports crap like ActiveX it is only a massive security hole and not worth using.

[Penguinisto]

Really?

...and how did it do at ACID3? <br /><br />(just out of curiousity)<br /><br />/P

[Penguinisto]

Acid 2 and Acid 3 Testing Results:

Hoo-boy... MSFT has a long, long way to go.<br /><br />IE8 beta almost passed Acid2 (had a couple of mis-aligned pixels), but the corp. proxy may have interfered with it.<br /><br />Here's the stats on Acid 3 (which has been publicly testable since January, but official since yesterday):<br /><br />Official Releases:<br />==================<br />* IE7 (current patch) on Win2k3/SP2: 12/100 (yes, "Twelve")<br />* Safari Mobile (on co-worker's iPhone): 39/100<br />* Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Fedora Core 8 Linux: 50/100<br />* (...does anyone have OSX 10.5 to test Safari there?)<br /><br />The betas <br />(comfirmed also from multiple sources):<br />======================<br />* IE8 on Win2k3/SP2 (3/6/08): 17/100 (yes, "Seventeen"). <br />* Firefox 3: 68/100<br />* Safari/Webkit on OSX 10.3.9 (3/5/08): 90/100<br /><br />So, a note to the rabid Microsoft (and other) fanboys out there - you don't have a whole lot to brag about yet, kids. ;)<br /><br />/P

[gp2792]

OS X 10.5.2

showed a 39 on the test.<br /><br />Also wanted to mention that Opera 9.25 showed a 46 on the test. <br /><br />True, that msft doesn't have a ton to brag about...but I think it is a <br />good, if belated, start.

[kojacked]

The Bar

Let's get ALL of the major browsers ACID2 compliant so we can safely code against the standards it represents before everyone goes crazy over ACID3. If they are always going after beta or just released standards we will never have anything stable we can code against. That defeats the purpose. It's hard to hit a moving target (or one that was just set 3 days ago).<br /><br />BTW, "Windows fanbois" don't brag. They just defend against the extremely biased comments the Linux and Apple fanbois make and try and help them re-integrate with reality by making them face it.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Nor do you have much to complain about

You wanted IE to follow standards. You railed against MS for this.<br /><br />Microsoft has given in and is running with standards compliant.<br /><br />Penguinisto complains.<br /><br />I don't get it, what does it take to make you happy? Get over it, you won. They are following the very standards you demaneded. And now you're complaining about it?<br /><br />Dude, seriously, get over yourself. Even when MS does *exactly* what you demanded, you complain about it.<br /><br />Makes me seriously consider where your paycheck is coming from. You obviously have something more than a general interest in this. Hmm.

[gp2792]

why this is important

a little math based on some previous posts and 10 seconds of research.<br /><br />assumptions:<br />75% of the market runs IEx where x = 5,6, or 7<br />The remaining 25% runs a standards compliant browser - read acid 2 pass.<br /><br />1 year from IE8 release, 40% adoption is reached. It took IE7 about 1 year to become the dominant IE browser, but I'll leave 10% for older versions<br /><br />results if IE8 RTM passes acid 2:<br />(.75 * .4) + .25 = .55<br /><br />meaning that in 1 year, the # of in use browsers that support basic standards will go from 25% to 55%. Is it nirvana? no...but doubling in one year would be a great improvement.<br /><br />I agree that we would be much better off if ie8 supported the standards that acid 3 tests for. Let's hope that ms makes that the goal before launch.