Microsoft eyes clean break with Windows Mobile 7

Microsoft's long and winding road toward regaining lost ground in the cell phone business will reach an important milestone in Barcelona next month.

At the annual Mobile World Congress event, Microsoft will at long last show off Windows Mobile 7--its oft-delayed major revamp of the decade-old Windows CE code base that has been at the core of its mobile operating system since the days of challenging the Palm Pilot.

Sources told CNET that Microsoft is still planning to finalize the code for Windows Mobile 7 by summer in order to have the new software on devices that ship before the end of the year.

Separately, though, Microsoft is also working on a new consumer phone line, early pictures of which cropped up last year, that is designed to be the next generation of the Sidekick product line that Microsoft inherited with its acquisition of Danger.

Although it is not a widely rumored "Zune Phone," the new consumer device is based on Windows Mobile and likely to be able to connect to Zune and other consumer services that Microsoft has been developing for some time now, sources said. That product, also due to arrive this year, should come earlier in the year ahead of Windows Mobile 7 devices.

Microsoft declined to comment on Windows Mobile 7 or the new consumer device, but Robbie Bach, the head of the company's entertainment division, did tell CNET in an interview at January's Consumer Electronics Show that Microsoft would have a lot more to say about the future of the phone business in Barcelona. Microsoft has also promised developers headed to the Mix 10 trade show in March that they will be able to get information on how to program for Windows Mobile 7.

"Yes, at MIX10 you'll learn about developing applications and games for the next generation of Windows Phone," Microsoft said on the Mix Web site in a Jan. 20 update. "Yes, we'll have Phone sessions, and we can't say more...yet."

Although Microsoft has typically been loath to make major changes to the desktop version of Windows at the expense of compatibility, the software maker appears ready to make a bigger break with its mobile past--a sensible move given its declining share of both the market and developer interest.

With Windows Mobile 7 hit by several delays, Microsoft last year released Windows Mobile 6.5, an interim update designed to make the current operating system more "finger-friendly" on touch-based devices. The company also rebranded devices using its operating system as "Windows Phones" and launched a new marketing campaign.

At the same time, though, longtime Windows Mobile phone makers including Motorola and HTC have been gravitating toward Google's Android mobile phone operating system. LG, which had planned to center its smartphone efforts on Windows Mobile, has also said it will offer a number of Android-based devices.

[supoman]

YAWN!!!

[guest18934367]

Why do people click "Like this" on these types of comments? It boggles the mind.

[Random_Walk]

It actually does make a statement... of sorts.

Me, I'm interested to see what they can do with it, though I suspect that by the time they get it to market, it really won't matter. The enterprise/business market is RIM's to lose... they have it pretty much sewn up. The consumer market is hot right now, but only Nokia has any real hope among the losing parties in it to pull off a miracle (though with the massive growth of the iPhone coupled with Android's inroads, and add RIM's strong showing?)

Long story short, among all the players, Microsoft's entry is pretty much going to be too little, too late.

[zyxxy]

Among the losing parties? Do you have any actual market charts in front of you? Yes, Nokia now has to share, but they are still the market leader by a significant margin.

[CrashPad63]

Dont pay attention to Random Penguin. He still seethes that Windows is the best OS in the world, and his hate boils over into anything MS.

[FutureGuy]

@Random_Walk
Really, is it that late already??? So would you say that for Andriod too since that has only been out for 2 months?
I am sure Sony would love to belive you.

[Random_Walk]

*sigh*

Here - let's show you blinkered fanboys some examples of WinMo and Symbian's marketshare drops, for the umpteenth time:

Windows Mobile drops:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/communications/0,1000000085,39877964,00.htm
http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/08/windows-mobile-loses-27-of-smartphone-market-in-q2.ars

Symbian drops:
http://mobiledevdesign.com/software_news/symbian-loses-os-market-share-0316/
http://jkontherun.com/2008/12/04/smartphone-mark-2/

Seriously? Both Windows Mobile and Symbian have been bleeding off marketshare for years now. QED: they are currently the losing parties. Claiming anything else is just blind denial, lying, or furious seething rage on your part.

[dhavleak]

@ Random_Walk

It's not the same thing (Apple's state 12 years ago and MS's state now). You don't need to post more stats -- nobody said "windows mobile is the market leader".

Apple was on life support 12 years ago. Microsoft is healthy. It's only by MS's very lofty standards that they aren't doing well right now -- by any other company's standards, MS is on fire currently.

And you're a little overeager as always to point out how badly Windows Mobile is doing and that there's no response from MS (that you know of). I don't know of any either, but there's one thing I've seen Microsoft do time and time again -- respond to a challenge. They do it better than any company I can remember in history. I'm willing to wait and watch for Windows Mobile 7.

[slapppy]

Double YAWN!

[Random_Walk]

"You don't need to post more stats -- nobody said "windows mobile is the market leader". "

Nor was I refuting any such statement... someone claimed that WinMo was not losing in this market, yet they are.

"Apple was on life support 12 years ago."

Urban legend. Apple at the time still had billions in the bank; their problem was that they were at that time losing market share (where there is similarity), but turned it around after the CEO of the time got kicked out and the product lines were trimmed, then re-vamped with OSX (can't recall the former CEO's name offhand... Schiller?)

That said, you do bring up a good parallel: Apple managed to come back after a radical overhaul in their product lines, and in how they did business in general. Microsoft OTOH doesn't seem interested in doing either.

"Microsoft is healthy" only in the sense that Unisys was healthy back in its heyday... living off of a massive locked-in customer base, but moribund and slowly losing share as time passes.

[censorshipblows]

Too little, too late. Fail.

[sanenazok]

Oh yeah because the smart phone market is completely static. Ask palm about that. Companies fortunes come and go.

[censorshipblows]

Care to wager on it?

[monkeyfun14]

@censorshipblows

Considering you don't know a damn thing about it? Who are you to decide too little to late.

[Mr. Dee]

Why are you so quick to count Microsoft out? I am sure when Apple was dying 12 years ago you didn't count them out.

[SlimGem]

So Microsoft is dying?

[dhavleak]

Can't be too late. This market will be around for decades. It's just the beginning. 6 billion people on the planet. Only about 50% of them have phones (of any type). Less than even 10% of them have smart phones (of any type). It's just the beginning kiddo.

[mavenized]

They aren't too late. They've been in the mobile market for years. The problem is they got lazy and so other platforms have eaten their lunch.

[kcar27]

Gotta agree in part with censorshipblows. Microsoft really messed up with Pink and an earlier attempt to get a Zune phone off the ground. The company repeated the fiasco of its Zune music store. After assuring its partners selling hardware compatible with the Playsforsure DRM format that it wouldn't abandon or compete with them, MS comes out with the Zune player and a DRM incompatible with Playsforsure.

This is why phone manufacturers have been moving to Android: they realized that MS tried to build a Zune phone behind their back after promising that it would not, and they realized that Pink was a disaster. Read here:

http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2009/10/05/microsofts-project-pink-might-be-dead-in-the-water/

That said, I wouldn't count MS out of any market that it really wants to compete in. But IIRC they plan on supporting three different phone OSes that are supposed to run on two different and incompatible phone networks. Good luck with that.

Microsoft is also going to get a serious wake-up call if it seriously intends to keep up with the big cell phone companies. MS might make a fight of it, but I don't see it gaining a lot of ground.

[Hoodgrown_Magazine]

The bigger difference is that device makers make more money utilizing Android as it's free for them to use where as with Windows Mobile they have to pay a licensing fee.

That may work against Microsoft.

[celticbrewer]

I personally dislike XBox, but if you look at what they've been doing with it: the dashboard, integrations (extenders, Zune, etc...), apps/store, media partners, it's pretty impressive.

I hate to admit it because I love my PS3, but the xbox experience is pretty damn hot these days. And if WinMo7 is following in the path of XBox and Zune in terms of design and capabilities, it really does have a good chance.

it's nice to see they're doing a "clean break" and not shooting themselves in the foot by being a slave to old code.

[TEHKI]

who cares

[topgunb2]

then why comment?

[FutureGuy]

he cares desperately, trying hard not to show.

[atish505]

Desperately trying to save a sinking ship. Too late.

[Seaspray0]

I don't think they are trying to save a sinking ship. They're going to let WinMo 6.x sink and try to build a new ship with version 7 that isn't based on old code. Until it comes out on the market, whether it will succeed or not will be total speculation. The only thing we will know is they will have to start at ground zero for market share and it will be a tough hill to climb. The one feature I suspect may help them is activesync (allows sychronizing corporate email).

[dougbugl]

and don't forget that they will start off paying vendors millions to take WinMo7 over Android. they have the cash and they've done this type of thing many times in the past. Isn't that how they quickly boosted Internet Explorer marketshare numbers, by purchasing up Netscape's contracts and paying ISPs for ever copy of IE sold?

I would not count Microsoft out of the game because of this one ability to buy off hardware vendors. Besides, wasn't the Barcelona event last year totally void of any Android and somehow everyone was talking only about WinMo? A few caught onto this and found out that alot of Android was going to ship in 2009 but they couldn't talk about it at Barcelona. It pays to have money in which to purchase your market and Microsoft has that. Don't count them out just yet.

[dm66]

Well if ActiveStink is the only thing that is going to help them they are completely stuffed...

[IT_worker]

Windows Mobile development started in 1994, known as Windows CE, and it was released in 1996, with the telephony stack added around 2000.

I'd like to know what Microsoft's new phone platform will mean to existing Windows Mobile phones. Wouldn't you say that today's Windows Phones are sitting atop a doomed application platform? Would you recommend anyone buy a Windows Phone, when obsolescence seems to be just around the corner?

From what I understand, applications in the new MS phone platform will run in managed code, this time Silverlight, rather than Java that Android and webOS use. Presumably Microsoft's app store will be selling Silverlight apps for the new platform.

Microsoft never managed to add many applications to its Windows Mobile store to date, as its developer community has largely abandoned the platform. Will they return to the new Silverlight-based platform? Or wait and see if it is popular or not. Momentum is hard to change.

Some say that Microsoft will run a dual OS strategy, with classic Windows Mobile as well as the new platform. I see that as impossible. Microsoft cannot keep Windows Mobile afloat as it is (its market share is in free fall). How on earth will Microsoft stem the bleeding from Windows Mobile, when releasing a new platform can only hasten the demise of the classic OS.

[Mr. Dee]

Your name describes you very well, 'IT_Worker". When the iPhone debuted in 2007, did the guts of the phone matter to the user who bought one? No, just that its a cool phone that does amazing things. It all goes back to presentation and improving the overall experience from top to bottom. That is what Microsoft has been working on engineering and I think we will see it at the Mobile Congress next month. If it looks good, works well and can connect to the various services like other mobile operating systems, it will be just as viable in the market.

[IT_worker]

To Mr. Dee: If a company releases a product late to market, then it must be better than the others to displace the existing platforms. Microsoft should have made a transition to a new phone OS in 2005, but didn't. Doing this now is near impossible, unless Microsoft can produce something extraordinary.

Zune HD was a good piece of engineering. But it could not dent iPod, because Zune was too late into the game. If Microsoft could be first to release a new product category ahead of the pack, it would do well. But it always seems to be copying others' ideas, following others, which causes it to be late to market.

If Microsoft makes a new phone platform that "looks good, works well", that will not be enough.

[stickfu]

Ha...the difference is Apple`s iPhone was innovative, MS has NEVER done that, unless you call replicating a desktop environment for a smaller mobile screen requiring the user to rely on a pen to input data or access applications as innovative. I really wish them well (in a special olympics type of way), but unless they bat 1000 they`re toast in mobile, just about every handset manufacturer has switched to Google Android (why pay a license fee when Google will revenue share? thats better than free) I really see WinMo7 being an iphone clone.... circa 2007... too late... go back to bed.

[topgunb2]

@stinky poo, you have done it again, time to open windows for fresh air

[monkeyfun14]

@stickfu

Google revenue sharing is better than free tbh that sounds more expensive in the long run. Just ask AT&T how "revenue sharing" worked out for them.

[stickfu]

LOL that`s right topbum, waiting for that cheque from MS I see.
maybe this month you`ll crack $100..

[stickfu]

@monkey
Google`s model involves revenue sharing through on device search, bit different than the AT&T and iphone deal.

[celticbrewer]

) Ha...the difference is Apple`s iPhone was innovative,
) just about every handset manufacturer has switched to Google Android

What was innovative about the iPhone? I don't see a single thing that wasn't already in the market. yes, they stole those ideas, put them all together, and packaged it neatly (that's what Apple does) but NOTHNIG was innovative.

Why does Android have the lowest share if "every" handset manufacturer switched to it? Symbian has 3 times as many installed smartphone OSes as Apple. Blackberry has 10 Million more than Apple. WinMo is not that much behind Apple, and Android is very far behind all of them. (And I say that as I go to buy an android phone tomorrow)

[stickfu]

Oh ya everyone used a touch/gesture based interface on a mobile for years before iphone. So where`d Apple "steal" it from? And if WinMo is so amazing with all this market share how come (by your own admission) you`re getting an Android based device?

[rapier1]

Ummm. Touch and gesture based interfaces were not something that Apple came up with. Not by a long shot. They made some integration improvements to it but that's about it. Small form touch screens, multi touch, and so forth were all developed outside of Apple.

[samkass]

The END of the YEAR?? The existing OS doesn't even compete against today's systems, let alone what Apple, Google, and RIM will be releasing 11 months from now. Apple will be finalizing the update to the update to what they have now around that time...

[Renegade Knight]

WinMo blows Android and iPhone out of the water on what it can do. What it doesn't do is offer a simple finger based interface. If MS can figure that out, and keep the raw ability of the platform, they will have a winner. That doesn't mean people will buy it. Zune is now (slightly) better than iPod but nobody buys it.

[jessiethe3rd]

I know the Apple and Google monkeys think they have the cats meow with all their lil apps. I'll tell you this. I can run secure (encrypted) connected to a solid back end infrastructure. I can run apps galore. I can multitask, I can know my data is not being mined by Google...

Yes - you have a pretty interface but my Touch Pro2 is better, more functional, and cooler (sorry kids... it's true.) Yes the platform is outdated, yes it is clunky... but as a corporate user I can get much more done much easier with Windows Mobile with a Microsoft backend. Play around in your Google cloud or fiddle around with your Apps and games... I'll be modifying powerpoints, editing word documents, plugging into a pico projector and displaying on a big screen my work. Content delivery versus content creation (Droid/iPoon to WinMo). More valueable for me.

[Yelonde]

@ jessiethe3rd

Yea, tell me that again when microsoft's servers fail on you, and you lose all your data on your pretty little winmo phone.

[DarkPhoenixFF4]

@jessiethe3rd

"I can know my data is not being mined by Google."

Wait, you're claiming that an open source app can do things that you don't know about behind your back despite the fact that the code is easy to get ahold of and see? I've got to see how Google does this.

It's like Chromium; people keep saying that Chromium itself is just as dangerous as Chrome, Google can "mine your data without you knowing", despite the fact that you can actually see the code and know exactly what it's doing. I don't see this sort of thing from Microsoft or Apple.

Tell me this; you automatically assume that Google is mining your data if you're using Android. Why do you think that Microsoft isn't doing the same with WinMo? They actually have a history of this sort of thing, you know.

[randy620]

@DarkPhoenixFF4,
He isn't assuming. Read you privacy policy on any Google applicatoin. They mine your data for use in ads. They aren't hiding it or anything like that. They flat out tell you they mine your data

[David Dudley]

If it is from the same team that developed the UI for the Zune, then this will be an interesting phone. But, hopefully they will be able to release an SDK for the new Winmo 7 devices at the same time as the release of the devices as the Zune is lacking in an apps due to a lack of SDK.

[rapier1]

Wouldn't you say that XNA 3.1 qualifies as a Zune SDK?

[dancote]

Why is MS being so slow? I am not anti-MS. I've used/continue to use their products every day. But this is a part of their business that needs to stay ahead of the herd ... and they're just not doing it. C'mon Redmond. Get yourselves a Skunk Works. You're in danger of fossilizing.

[celticbrewer]

Seems like they're taking a tip from Apple. Go slow, be secretive.

[Renegade Knight]

@celticbrewer

That's what Apple does going in, but they do update their current produts on an ongoing and incremental basis.

[cbscowards]

MS is so slow because they have become a large, bureaucratic company with loads of red tape and silo-driven development that leads to turf wars between product groups. It happens to many companies that are excellent at execution when they are small, and become bloated and slow as they succeed.

[DannyMD]

I sincerely hope Win Mobile 7 brings Windows mobile OS to the 21st century, with much needed API changes and easiness of use for programmers and end user alike. Is Visual Studio 2010 going to be ready for WinMo7 development?

[frobots]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[karlkrist]

I'm the biggest Microsoft fanboy I know. I have a Windows phone...I've been to their developer conferences...I drank the Kool-Aid happily.

But whenever anyone asks me about my phone, I have to tell them, "Don't buy one- you'll hate it."

I had a PDA in 2003 that ran the same basic operating system. The same basic Mobile Office, no real change. I had to use a stylus for everything back then. Not a lot different now.

The phone hangs at all kinds of strange times. Screens that should be simple, are not. On Windows Mobile 6.1, the only saving grace was HTC's TouchFlo 3D. On 6.5 the only improvement was the Today and Start screens.

I always ask myself, "How could they have let it get this bad?" I still don't understand it.

Microsoft- one of your biggest fanboy customers is just waiting until September when I am eligible for a new phone...so I can switch to something else. Anything else. Android, iPhone...whatever. And I am telling anyone who wants to know, your platform is bad.

I was at the mobile developers conference in Santa Clara last year. After seeing the big new changes in 6.5 (none really) I gave up on you completely. My app didn't end up in the Marketplace because I didn't want to spend time developing for a phone I didn't enjoy using.

I do love my Xbox though. Oh, and SQL Server. And Windows, kinda.

I'll answer any questions you have- just email me at [e-mail]

[stickfu]

No need to answer your post is comprehensive and probably reflects many devs in your position.
+1

[Renegade Knight]

Like you I got a PDA early and liked it. It did a lot, and the apps made it better. They lever left behind their core ablity of "mini computer" when the PDA and WinMo both moved to smart phones. This is what they get right.

I can't speak to API but I can speak to interface. Everone simplified the interface and all of the sudden WinMo was kludgy and hard to work with even though it remains far more capable.

The other main flaw is the screen. They really needed to set a minimum size for their OS to work on. Not some of the dinky crap where you can't read anything without stacking a few layers of reading glasses. That or make the OS more adaptive to screen size.

However it's like Internet Explorer. T hey put the work in to do good, but when they "won" they stopped. Same with WinMo. They stopped innovating the OS and the interface beyond some minor updates.

I now have an Android phone. Odds are I won't go back, but I can tell you I miss the capability of the WinMo phone. You give up a lot when you moved to the dumbed down platforms.

[jessiethe3rd]

I love my TouchPro2... I love my HD2 (albeit doesn't work on 4G :()

[Yelonde]

How about DROP WINMO, AND MAKE A ZUNEPHONE?

Seriously, microsoft is scrambled when it comes to the mobile market. If they seriously want developers for both the zune HD, and their mobile phones, then use one mobile OS for both platforms!

I will bet you that if microsoft did this, general interest in their phones, and their music players would be much better than it is now.

[The_happy_switcher]

Did someone say ZUNEPHONE??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRLRjKCGHek

[Seaspray0]

@happy switcher. Actually, I liked this one much better...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRKIDdIaFyE&NR=1

They're good for a laugh, but they still follow the typical apple fanboy theme which is insult first, deny the truth later.

[CrashPad63]

Oh boy the Happy Name Switcher is still regurgitating grull I see. Why are you so insightful about products you could care less about. No go away before someone says something to your Mom.

[jmohapatra]

Phone has a very shorter life span. On an average most people change it around 2 year. So for every good device there is always a chance to gain the lost ground as it is not too late.

Iphone 3GS is quite popular and the same user will started looking for a new phone within next 2 year. So they have 2 options then. Either they will upgrade to a new Iphone (may be 5.0 or so) or they will look for alternative from Motorola, HTC, LG etc. So in technology everybody has a chance to topple anybody else if you have a product which has some value.

I used to use an I-mate Windows mobile 6.1 device. Once its contract ended last month, I started looking for new device and choose HTC Touch2 , windows 6.5 phone and I am quite happy with that. Even though I like Iphone but I didn't buy it because of my No:1 priority was the size, which should fit my pocket comfortably and for me Iphone and HTC HD2 didn't satisfy my need so I didn't buy them. Assume if HTC Touc2 was not released that time or released after 1 month, then I might have bought a different one or may be Iphone itself.

I know quite number of my friends who are having Iphone were quite crazy about it and tried lot of apps on it. But after 4 months they settled with the basic functionality like sms, email, facebook & news reading. And nowadays almost all smart phone are doing it. So next time they may get attracted towards another device which might have address few short comings in their existing device.

Finally if Windows Phone 7.0 going to be a good one then definitely it will able to regain its lost market share in 2 years time.

[Hoodgrown_Magazine]

You're under the assumption that the others; Apple, RIM and Android will be sitting still. By the time Window Mobile catches up to where they are with their latest release... the other guys will still be so far ahead of them.

[Renegade Knight]

@Hoodgrown_Magazine

Apple faced the same issue. They didn't even have a phone. As they developed it the others "will still be far ahead of them".

Fortune favors the bold. If MicroSoft doesn't make some bold moves they may as well drop the product.

[jessiethe3rd]

@Hoodgrown_Magazine

Hype rules this industry. If Microsoft comes out with a product that's words ahead (some of the mark-ups suggest this) they can easily overtake Apple and RIM in the next 2 years... overtake or become a very serious contender.

[jd_in_sb]

How can Microsoft compete with Android when Android is free? And Microsoft will need to pull off a miracle and be nearly equal to the up and coming iPhone OS 4.0 to have a chance of actually charging for Windows Mobile 7. And we all know that won't happen.

[codynews]

MS can compete with Android by making a better phone OS and a better app/ecosystem for it. I don't think the Mobile OS is all that much so it's not like it turns a $200 phone into a $300 phone. It's like $5 or something.

And Windows isn't free but it beats Linux 50 to 1 because it's better (for most end users)

Cody

[Renegade Knight]

The same way Apple does.

[dougbugl]

they can pay every vendor who installs Windows Mobile 7 $5 to put a sticker on the box, $15 for putting a silkscreen logo on the device, and pay them another $10 per device for putting "we recommend Windows" on the web pages for that device. So while Android is free, Windows makes them money. You should have learned this from the Asus Eee PC deals which removed Linux from the devices and resulted in Windows XP being pulled from retirement and placed on those netbooks. So that is the most likely way Microsoft will "compete".

[dougbugl]

<quote>And Windows isn't free but it beats Linux 50 to 1 because it's better (for most end users)</quote>

are you talking about the desktop? I sure hope so because Linux is doing quite well in many many other devices and people are able to use them very easily. Routers, TVs, DVR/Tivo, phones, etc. As far as the desktop goes, you should know that Microsoft has a special program called EDGI which they have millions of dollars ready to pay any vendor which looks like they are going to switch from Windows to Linux. THAT is why you are not seeing Linux on the desktop. Microsoft makes billions in profits annually because of Windows so spending a few hundred million to keep Linux away is nothing to them. Don't think for a single second that it has anything to do with user choice.

[monkeyfun14]

@doug

Mind posting a source?

[Nataku4ca]

@dougbugl

why are u talking to yourself? or is that my imagination?

anyways, as far as Eee PC goes it wasn't because MS paid them, but because linux justs didn't work for people especially at the beginning when hdds were 4~8GBs in size they just weren't getting good reviews. It wasn't until they switched to XP and bigger hdds that they started to gain "explosive" popularity, get your facts straight

[smilin:)]

Linux has been using that stupid argument for years.

Water is free but you end up buying it in a bottle. Why?

[The_happy_switcher]

Wow, I 'can' hardly wait.

[Zakney]

The end of the year?

Android, Iphone OS - even symbian will have made at least two major updates by that time!

[hawkeye_a]

Microsoft has always and still is a "Me too" company.... be it in GUIs or mobile software systems, multimedia, gaming consoles, mp3 players, web browsers, office suites, online music, retail stores, etc....

Innovation is not part of the Microsoft "DNA". A glimpse back at history shows that as soon as a company creates a market/product that sees moderate success and bears all the R&D costs and risk, Microsoft soon after makes an announcement of an identical product/service with +1 the specifications. That's their business model.

They currently control the desktop OS market due to the agreements and licenses they have with hardware manufacturers. Luckily for us(the consumer) a mobile/smart phone does not have the same compatibility requirements as a PC, and users have an easier time switching from one brand of phone/OS to another with relative ease.

The iPhone was announced in 2007, with it's revolutionary Human-interface.... rows of large icons, itunes syncing, state-of-the-art mobile browser, etc.... and that product made it to market due to the culture of innovation at Apple, best-in-class industrial design, tightly integrated/coupled hardware-software development due to a vertically-integrated company. It's taken Microsoft 3-4 years to get up to speed with what Apple revolutionized.

You can expect Microsoft's phone to have +1 MHz, +1MB RAM, a higher resolution screen, a few more colors, and the exact same interface (think magnifying glass, 'type-writer keys', shiny-aqua-like buttons, rubber-band-scrolling, rows of apps, an app store, etc) with a few more options & check boxes than the iPhone..... and a few dollars cheaper. And they(Microsoft) and it's legions will call it "innovative".

Kudos Apple, as a customer i know what that so-called "Apple tax" is really for..... innovation. Keep it up!

[Renegade Knight]

You got the human interface part right. I won't give the iPhone any kind of kudos on design unless the goal is to reward planned obsolsence. Even if the phone works perfectly for you for the next 10 years, you will still have to send it in and give Apple money 3 or more times to replace your battery.

[Nataku4ca]

well, not trying to be annoying, but bluetrack comes to mind, XBox's network system (granted not exactly innovative, but its definitely a great thing in terms of video game industry)

the other thing is, well, they are danm good at doing business (good/evil aside that is)

desktop OS part, very important, if there were agreement such as u suggested, it would be apple preventing other corps from making PCs with their OS that is hampering progression (psystar comes to mind)

Linux is great, now, but not before Ubuntu hopped around, throwing that at regular folks just scares the crap out of them.

btw, safari is in no way state-of-the-art, if anything I would say Opera then Chrome then Firefox

I really hate to say this but this "tightly integrated/coupled hardware-software development" along with patent system is definitely going to hamper progression (leave either one out then you'd be fine, but not both together)

the rest is really all speculation, not that it won't happen, but speculation is speculation

[jessiethe3rd]

I'm sorry... have you seen Project Natal? Who was the first to release a tablet PC for the masses? Synch technology for Ford? Surface?

[dm66]

Natal is also nothing new as Nintendo did the groundwork there...Tablet PC for the masses, except the masses didn't buy it...Microsoft software in a car just scares the cr@p outta me...and surface has been around for how long now...when is it going to be used for anything past a proof of concept?

Apple take their time and have learnt from past mistakes about getting all your ducks lined up before you release and now have to base to build on. Microsoft are still just shooting blindfolded in the dark.

[wh1tebum]

IMO Saying project natal is not innovative because Nintendo did motions controls is like saying the iphone app store is not innovative because app stores have been done before.

[dm66]

Well...exactly, the App Store is not innovative and I didn't say it was...it's just put together better then any iteration before it. Natal is not innovative as it's an update from the Eyetoy and the Wii. You can't say its any good yet, like Surface and even the iPad as they don't exist. WinMo is dying tho, that is plain to see and the question is whether MS can turn it around...

[Maccess]

Didn't they say that with Windows CE 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, Windows Mobile 5.0, 6.0, 6.5. Another new one, huh?

Quick, name anyone in your office who has actually used Windows mobile for more than three months before getting a Blackberry or an iPhone.

[topgunb2]

100s in my office, as they need a customer support application which is proprietary to the company and cannot be installed on iphone.

[IT_worker]

To topgunb2: Your company has a proprietary Windows Mobile app deployed on 100's of phones.

It'll be interesting to see how it unfolds for companies in your position, when Windows Mobile 7 is out, requiring apps to be rewritten in Silverlight.

Some rumors circulating are that Microsoft will adapt a dual-OS strategy. Probably prolonging the Classic Windows Mobile (6.5 & 6.6) to allow for companies in your position who use need the current Windows Mobile. The only problem is the plunging market share of the current Windows Mobile may stop it being around for much longer.

[Renegade Knight]

Most of the folks who use a PDA/Smart Phone in my company are WinMo. Some migrated from Blackberry.

[Nataku4ca]

hell, ive played with them all

and u know what, i still think the good old non-smart phones are better for me lol

(I do have smart phone and played with almost all of them, except pre cant get my hands on them for my network =.=)

[technewsjunkie]

The new improved OS is called VISTA, no wait, how about something really creative like number "7".

Are they slow on the uptake or what. Big, slow, behemoth monopoly.

MS is Old tech, yesterday's news.

[Renegade Knight]

You nailed it. Vista was an inproved interface. It beat the snot out of Leopard, especially in Media (there has to be an irony there). Vista as an OS actually running...that was another thing but I will give credtit to Vista for the interface.

[spacydog]

One word - HD2 - http://www.htc.com/europe/product/hd2/product-tour.html. Will support 7 when it comes out.

[codynews]

Seems like a pretty nice phone... However "when it comes out" isn't all that reassuring. I have my iphone today, and "when it comes out", who knows what else might be on the market from Apple and others.

That said, if my iphone blew up and that HD2 was available today I'd pick one up

(and the '.com/europe' doesn't give me high hopes. Is there something "Europe" about that phone? )

[Nataku4ca]

fyi @codynews

we are usually left out for new phone XD usually takes a while to come

[jessiethe3rd]

codynews: This is already "out"... it's just Europe gets these fantastic phones because their networks are all unlocked and they don't force phone manufactures to bend over backwards.

[spacydog]

T-mobile already revealed it will be picking up the HD2 and releasing sometime in spring 2010.