• On TechRepublic: Get 5 cool Microsoft apps -- for free
November 20, 2009 10:19 AM PST

Sinofsky's Windows plan: More data, less testosterone

by Ina Fried
  • Font size
  • Print
  • 93 comments

LOS ANGELES--While some have criticized Steven Sinofsky for being tight-lipped, the Windows boss insists that he is being prudent, not secretive.

"Everybody wants to know what's coming and what's next." But, he said, talking too soon, too early is actually a bad thing that just leads to frustration.

"You reacting to some nightly developer build isn't really productive to anybody," Sinofsky said in an interview at this week's Professional Developers Conference.

Sinofsky says that people don't want to show up to a restaurant and watch a potato being peeled and taste it half-cooked. For the same reason, he prefers to not talk about things until they are well, fully baked.

"It's hard to imagine what else you want to see while it's in progress," Sinofsky said. "I don't want to see the daily cuts of a movie. I want to see what the director thought at the end."

As a result, Microsoft didn't show Windows 7 until last year's Professional Developers Conference, just a year before the product was released. That's in sharp contrast to the prior version of Windows, which was first shown as Longhorn back in 2003. It ultimately suffered through numerous delays and significant changes before being released as Vista.

Windows boss Steven Sinofsky said his Windows philosophy boils down to a single word--responsibility. "There's not another project in software to work on that a billion people use and we take that really, really seriously."

(Credit: Ina Fried/CNET)

From early indications, Sinofsky would appear to be on to something. While Vista was largely panned by critics and shunned by businesses, Windows 7 has thus far had strong early sales and gotten high marks from reviewers.

It's some of the same philosophy Sinofsky took in his earlier days, when he led development of Microsoft's Office franchise.

"Normal people have stuff to do," he said.

That's also why he doesn't really look for public feedback until the software is largely done.

"We don't want feedback on a screenshot," he said.

Sinofsky shifted from Office to Windows in March 2006 and earlier this year added responsibility for the business side of Windows as well, becoming the unit's president.

He said his philosophy toward Windows really boils down to a single word--responsibility. "There's not another project in software to work on that a billion people use and we take that really, really seriously in the hallways of our dev team," he said.

Sinofsky also isn't one to be swayed by emotional arguments for or against a feature. If you want his attention--show him the numbers. He said he wants feedback, but he wants that feedback to "be based on data and not assertions or opinions or anecdotes."

During his PDC talk on Wednesday, he referred to the other approach as "testosterone-based engineering."

"It turns out we did a lot of things by that method," Sinofsky said. Often times, decisions on which features to include in the next version of a product were made that way. People, Sinofsky said, would basically just ask their friends.

"Let me get this straight," Sinofsky said. "You are going to ask your 10 friends who all go to Fry's and build their own gaming machines and that's going to be the way we decide which features go in the product?"

That, he said, "seems a little homogeneous. It seems a little limited in its reliability."

But these days, Microsoft has a better option, gathering lots and lots of data from real-world use. Quite often, he said, the data will show things that might not be intuitive to Redmond's engineers.

As an example, he showed a graph at the conference that showed the huge variety of graphics resolutions that Windows users were operating at, including a significant number with VGA-resolution displays. Folks in Redmond initially assumed they didn't really need to worry about such low-resolution screens.

True to form, Sinofsky was emphatically silent when my questions drifted toward the future. I asked whether we might see a beta of Internet Explorer 9 at Mix and he literally just sat there silent until I asked the next question.

Later on in the interview, the mere mention of Windows 8 got the same stone-faced glare.

"I won't ask you what's in Windows 8, but can you talk at all (about it)? You mentioned that you are a few weeks into designing IE 9," I said. "Are you a similar amount into Windows 8?"

Silence. More silence.

"I didn't say any of the words--Windows 8--those were all your words," he said. "Next."

Sinofsky did have some interesting things to say when I asked for his take on competitors like Google and Apple.

"You have to take it very seriously," he said of the competitors. "That's always, always true in the software world. In the software world it doesn't take a lot to have a dramatic shift in how people perceive you or how they act. It's just very important no matter what your perceived or real or measured share is at one moment, it doesn't take a lot to change it down the road."

During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft. E-mail Ina.

Recent posts from Beyond Binary
Olympic snow still in short supply at Cypress
Microsoft denies Windows 7 battery problem
Security software maker Vitamin D exits beta
Olympics and tech: 'No room to fail' (Q&A)
Microsoft aims for smooth streaming in Vancouver
Olympics to athletes: Go ahead and tweet
Facebook takes over its display ads from Microsoft
Microsoft ending Xbox Live support for older games
Add a Comment (Log in or register) Showing 1 of 2 pages (93 Comments)
by The_happy_switcher November 20, 2009 10:57 AM PST
Will Microsoft finally join 21st century computing and get rid of the registry baggage in "The Ocho" version of Windows?
Reply to this comment
by viper396 November 20, 2009 11:24 AM PST
Now the registry is the problem?? How does that relate to the article? What exactly is the problem with the registry or are you just scratching for more irrelevent things to bash Microsoft over? ...[CNET editors' note: Personal attack deleted].
by ncalishome November 20, 2009 11:38 AM PST
Maybe The_happy_switcher enjoys managing hundreds of .plist files for thousands of corporate Mac users? Registry isn't great (potential single point of failure, and tends to bloat), but also has its advantages. I really haven't heard of anyone having a system meltdown due to their registry in a number of years. Seems more like a drum the tech old timers like this guy like to beat on time to time. :)
by Super2online November 20, 2009 12:01 PM PST
Happy switcher doesn't need anything but the name Microsoft to come up for us to have to endure more of his dibble.
by rapier1 November 20, 2009 12:34 PM PST
Windows has the registry, OS X has the defauls, plists, and other sort of ini files. While the Apple approach works very well in some regards in the MS approach works very well in others. However, you slice it an OS needs a significant amount of persistent configuration information that has to be managed in some way.
by WinNoMo November 20, 2009 10:57 AM PST
In other words, we can't tell you what's coming until we've had a chance to see what the real innovators in the industry are up to.
Reply to this comment
by Random_Walk November 20, 2009 11:16 AM PST
Heh - actually, Sinofsky is taking his business plan straight out of Apple's. <br /><br />Seriously - Apple only does official roadmaps, and doesn't say squat about upcoming features until they're confirmed as going in. Good on Sinofsky for doing that, though - usually Microsoft ends up promising a lot more than they can deliver whenever they go around bragging on an upcoming feature.<br /><br />And yeah, Ina's right - back when Vista was being worked on, there were a huge pile of promised features that pretty much wound up stillborn (WinFS stands out).
by viper396 November 20, 2009 11:26 AM PST
Oh yes, of course. So apparently all other companies tell you their future plans?
by Random_Walk November 20, 2009 11:55 AM PST
@viper396:<br /><br />google for "WinFS" - Microsoft used to (and in some cases still does) have a nasty habit of counting unhatched chickens...
by WinNoMo November 20, 2009 12:13 PM PST
Apple doesn't say anything about upcoming features in order to prevent the Redmond copiers from firing up too soon. Which is how they are always at least a year ahead.
by celticbrewer November 20, 2009 12:14 PM PST
I agree with Random_Walk, this sounds very Apple-like. <br /> <br />The only difference is that, as the article states, billions use Windows (the important billions), and there's many times more external software and hardware developers to consider. Microsoft can't afford to be as tight-lipped as Apple.
by dhavleak November 20, 2009 12:42 PM PST
@ Random_Walk <br /> <br />More FUD? Or just taking a random swipe this time? When will you get tired of your trolling? <br /> <br />How did Microsoft "count their chickens" with WinFS before they hatched? <br /> <br />They thought a relational file system would bring great perf improvements. When they actually tried it out, it didn't bring the benefits they thought it would, so they had to scrap the idea. WinFS isn't an example against what Sinofsky said -- it's an example of what Microsoft has learned from developing Vista. Don't make feature announcements unless you're sure the feature is going to be in the final release. WinFS is the perfect example to prove the Sinofsky is doing the right thing by keeping mum right now. <br /> <br />Waiting to hear the troll-speak spin on it of course..
by Mergatroid Mania November 20, 2009 1:12 PM PST
Lol, yeah right, like Apple never copies anything....right.<br /><br />Heh heh...fanboys......
by Random_Walk November 20, 2009 1:13 PM PST
"How did Microsoft "count their chickens" with WinFS before they hatched? "<br /><br />It was promised quite loudly in the very early stages of what was then called "Longhorn" - it was even included in the earliest betas of "Longhorn" given away at the 2003 Microsoft PDC... then folks realized what a horrid pile of unfinished crap it was. <br /><br />So, if you're quite finished with the bile and knee-jerking, you may want to notice that I was actually complimenting Sinofsky on doing the right thing about what one does and does not promise for upcoming releases - unlike his predecessors, of course.
by Random_Walk November 20, 2009 1:24 PM PST
Oh, and before you can even think of denying it, allow me to present Microsoft itself proving me right: <br /><br />http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa480687.aspx
by dhavleak November 20, 2009 1:55 PM PST
@ Random Walk <br /> <br />As usual you're proving yourself wrong with your own links. You even contradicted yourself with your own comments. <br /> <br />MS announced it, worked on it, released it, realized it didn't work, rescinded it. Your story matches my story, and they both match the link you so gleefully attached. <br /> <br />The take away once more, for the slow-of-mind -- don't annouce features until you're sure you're going to release them. Hence, Sinofsky's silence. Do you get it now? No? Thought not..
See more comment replies
by Mr. Dee November 20, 2009 11:00 AM PST
I have to agree with everything Steven has said. I think some of the Windows Enthusiast sites are a bit too enthusiastic. Windows 7 was RTMed July 22nd and another site started discussing Windows 8 plans. Lets just inhale the Windows 7 for a little while before we start discussing its successor. I am sure they are working on it and I am sure it doesn't look any different from Windows 7.
Reply to this comment
by Random_Walk November 20, 2009 11:18 AM PST
Dunno if I'd use the word "inhale" - sounds too much like something one would do with cocaine or marijuana, y'know? ;)
by Mr. Dee November 20, 2009 12:54 PM PST
So I guess you are also saying that Oxygen is bad for you? Please, stop being stupid.
by Random_Walk November 20, 2009 1:15 PM PST
"Please, stop being stupid."<br /><br />Testy, testy... I mean, seriously - "inhale the Windows 7"? It may as well be a euphemism for snorting coke.
by topgunb2 November 20, 2009 2:03 PM PST
@Random_Walk , wow man, you have at least 10 posts on every windows related articles, <br /><br />I'm not being nasty here, but do you get paid by apply? how does all this work, how do you get that kind of time, are you employed?
by Seaspray0 November 20, 2009 4:09 PM PST
Topgunb2 is correct. Random Walk spends entirely too much time trolling articles about windows when he uses linux. Clicking on Random Walk's name will show you the history of this is true (the proof is in the posts).
by Random_Walk November 20, 2009 4:13 PM PST
I do a lot of the work from home (salaried, partial telecommute), and yes, I keep ahead of the load. (gives me something to do during compiles, transfers, what-have-you). I only bother to stop by a couple times a day or so.<br /><br />Anything else you'd like to know?
by kojacked November 20, 2009 10:21 PM PST
"gives me something to do during compiles, transfers, what-have-you" - Ha! Another lazy employee. Surfing during work time. I suppose you clock out when you come here to troll right? Thought so.
by odubtaig November 21, 2009 9:02 AM PST
Do you mind if I don't inhale? Those DVDs are a pain to grind up and the particles are probably quite sharp.<br /><br />Kojacked: so long as he gets the work done it doesn't matter. After all, this isn't the 17th century and people are paid for work done, not as indentured labour. I hate this attitude that people are supposed to be nose-to-the-grindstone 9-5; so long as someone meets the deadlines at the rate you have agreed to pay them, who cares?
by Random_Walk November 21, 2009 9:31 AM PST
You do know that when logic fails, it's always ad-hominem that they have to fall back on... :)<br /><br />(Let me translate - when they cannot debate the facts, they attack the person. Oh, and kojacked needs to look up the word "salaried" )
by kojacked November 22, 2009 2:09 PM PST
Obiwan &#38; Random: People fool themselves in thinking they are "getting the work done" for the 40 they are getting paid for all the while screwing around on the Internet. When they fail and are cornered they swing that to some other excuse like "well my quality of work is so much better than..." or "I don't live for work" or "I have domain knowledge that can't be replaced." Go ahead and keep telling yourselves that . I'll just keep firing guys like you.
See more comment replies
by aubskibob November 20, 2009 11:03 AM PST
The title of this article makes no sense. How does being more tight-lipped correspond to less testosterone? Aren't males supposed to be more taciturn than females?
Reply to this comment
by aubskibob November 20, 2009 11:05 AM PST
Also, asking your friends instead of relying on data. Again, that is more feminine. This all makes no sense whatsoever.
by WileySkier November 20, 2009 11:15 AM PST
"Also, asking your friends instead of relying on data. Again, that is more feminine. This all makes no sense whatsoever."<br /><br />That means he wants to gather a lot of information on how people actually use the product...not how the developers and product managers think it will be used. For example, take the comment about how the developers didn't think they needed to worry about low resolution screens.
by Splashes November 20, 2009 11:24 AM PST
Credit where credit's due: Sinofsky is pretty much the only Microsoft exec who doesn't sound like a complete tool. Will he save Microsoft from Ballmer et al? Or will he get frustrated and jump to Google? Stay tuned!
Reply to this comment
by Seaspray0 November 20, 2009 4:14 PM PST
By chance, did you watch alot of the batman tv series when you were a kid?
by Splashes November 20, 2009 6:49 PM PST
Holy bald boofus, Batman! It's Ballmer!
by odubtaig November 21, 2009 9:05 AM PST
Honestly, when the title said 'more data, less testoterone' I thought they were announcing Ballmer's departure.
by EdCenter November 20, 2009 11:30 AM PST
Heh, I like this Sinofsky a lot better than Balmer. Quite different styles, but Sinofsky appears to be one who subscribes to the philosophy that less is way WAY more. Like how he remained silent whenever Ina asked him about future releases?
Reply to this comment
by gerickson1 November 20, 2009 11:40 AM PST
If Microsoft wants to gain better favor with developers, it should adopt Google's "Release early and often" mantra. It gets the public in on the project and allows them to submit bug reports that many of their own developers would not have found (see http://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/list). I shake my head when I read Sinofsky's comment, "It's hard to imagine what else you want to see while it's in progress. I don't want to see the daily cuts of a movie. I want to see what the director thought at the end." This isn't a movie! This is a very big piece of software that people want in on! Why not at least give the option? The Chromium issues list has been extremely successful, and I've reported several bugs so far that have each gotten fixed. I just can't believe Microsoft is still taking the closed-door 1990s approach to software development. Why not leverage the power of millions of testers from around the world?
Reply to this comment
by gerickson1 November 20, 2009 11:42 AM PST
Oh, and Ina, why didn't you drill him about this?
by gerickson1 November 20, 2009 11:53 AM PST
Here's an Ars Technica article confirming my thoughts: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/11/microsofts-problematic-lack-of-nightly-builds-for-ie
by Arnav November 20, 2009 12:12 PM PST
Google is not releasing an OS which a billion people use. Your comparison is not an apples to apples. An OS is not a feature race, its main highlights are not features but security, speed, ease of access , standardized API &#38; a driver model for 3rd parties.
by gerickson1 November 20, 2009 12:23 PM PST
Actually, they're releasing a browser that over 30 million people use. And they just released the source code for their OS that you can bet millions will use, and they'll release nightly builds for that, as well. I don't understand why you think that bug reporting only applies to features. If you look at the Chromium issues link I posted, probably more than half the bugs are not feature requests, but rather issues with some of the topics you mentioned: security, speed, and ease of access (I assume you mean use). In fact, they consider these Areas, and here they are: BrowserBackend, BrowserUI, Compat[ibility], Infrastructure, Installer, Plugins, and Webkit. The Chrome OS issues list (http://code.google.com/p/chromium-os/issues/list) includes topics such as: DesktopUI, DeveloperAPIs, Firmware, Graphics, Login, Network, etc... My point is, releasing nightly builds allows developers and testers to stay in the loop and find issues that the team at Microsoft wouldn't have found themselves.
by gerickson1 November 20, 2009 12:24 PM PST
Oh, and by the way, the fact that over a billion people use Windows only strengthens the argument for a nightly build. More users means more bug reporting!
by kojacked November 20, 2009 12:59 PM PST
gerickson1, <br /> <br />But there's an inherant cost to such frequent builds and it's called "support". No matter how you disclaim that the build is not for production and not supported people will demand support for issues in the build or blame Microsoft when data is lost. With such a huge audience (billions) these support costs would translate into a price for Windows that no once could afford. Nothing is really free. Someone pays for it.
by dhavleak November 20, 2009 1:00 PM PST
@ gerickson1 <br /> <br />Nightly (or daily if you prefer) builds are a standard part of every software company I've worked in -- I find it very hard to believe that MS doesn't do that as well. <br /> <br />They don't need to release those builds to find bugs. That's what testers are for. Testers develop automated test cases to run against daily builds. Every day, you release (internally) your build, and run your automation against it. As the devs add features, the testers add test cases pertaining to those features. As test cases fail, bugs get filed, devs fix bugs, testers run tests, if test passes, bug gets resolved. There may or may not be manual test cases as well -- but in my experience the more automation the better, because that way you can cover a greater amount of test cases, and in a more reliable manner. As far as getting enough eyeballs (insert favorite Eric Raymond quote here) -- well, that's what beta releases are for. You don't necessarily have to make your daily builds public to get that level of feedback. <br /> <br />At least, that's the way it's been in every company I've worked in so far.
by Mergatroid Mania November 20, 2009 1:20 PM PST
Sorry gerickson1, but Google didn't write that o./s (Chrome), it's Linux. Google is just making the user interface.<br /><br />You cannot compare a browser to a complete operating system, and you cannot compare a user interface to a complete operating system either. You want proof? Look at all the user interfaces that are available for Linux. They're all Linux, just look different.<br /><br />I know Google likes to convince the media that Chrome is an o/s they developed, but it just is not true.<br /><br />If MS released the way Google did, they would never hear the end of the MS haters complaining about bugs and convincing people not to buy the o/s when it was finished based on bugs in the incomplete versions. That's not the way to do the job properly. At least 7 is not a beta for years and years.<br /><br />And by the way, 7 is great, so it looks to me like MS did it right this time.
by spacydog November 20, 2009 1:30 PM PST
You obviously have not worked in the software industry and no nothing about software testing. Having bug reports in that large of a magnitude becomes uselessly inefficient. Handling the amount of duplicate bugs reported becomes wasteful. A much smaller sample of users do suffice and that's why there are targeted betas that get released instead of flooding releases to everyone and their dogs. You DO NOT want to support the bugs that come in on daily builds. Daily builds are not guaranteed to work. That's why there are verification tests that are required to pass in order to stamp the build as stable builds to even seriously consider testing.
by dhavleak November 20, 2009 2:01 PM PST
@ spacydog <br /> <br />Excellent comment regarding the inefficeincy of the 'public feedback' process. <br /> <br />There was an excellent blog entry by the windows team that addressed how they dealt with that but nightly builds would make any kind of mitigation next to impossible. <br /> <br />I can't find the original blog entry any more, but here's a related link: http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/2009/02/25/feedback-and-engineering-windows-7.aspx (it's pretty long and dry so I don't expect anyone will actually read the whole thing though).
by Mergatroid Mania November 20, 2009 12:02 PM PST
I agree with most of what he said.<br /><br />However, saying he won't be "swayed by emotional arguments for or against a feature" and is only interested in data seems a little ridged to me.<br /><br />For example, I would have liked a slight alteration to the Win 7 start menu. I personally don't much care for the "most recently used files" feature on the first page of the start menu. I would have liked there to be a way to make it the second page so I could have the "All Programs" menu on the first page by default. Or, I would have liked a little checkbox in the Start Menu properties to just disable the "most recently used" page of the start menu.<br />My question is, exactly what "data" can I give him that would convince him that one of these two "features" would have been a nice thing to add? The amount of programming it would take to add them in is almost negligible, but according to him he wouldn't even listen to a discussion of the subject.<br /><br />Some people tell me that "the new start menu is much better, and who wants to do it the old fashioned way, and you can search right from the menu to find anything you want"<br /><br />These people should realize that not everyone shares their opinion. The way I had my start menu set up in XP was much better. All the software I used was in directories in the root menu. Easy to find, and just a click or two away. <br />I also do like the search feature they've added to the start menu, and would not remove it. Heck, I wouldn't remove anything, just install an option to disable the first page or make it the second page.<br /><br />Other than that I have to say I really like Windows 7. I have had zero problems with it. It's very intuitive, pretty and actually fun to use.<br /><br />So, to make it a little more to my liking I have had to install a 3rd party app to change the start menu. Not such a big deal I guess (as I said, I do like the o/s) but I would have preferred to just click a little box and have the Recently Used page relegated to the 2nd page.<br /><br />Considering that's my only critique I would say I'm pretty happy with the o/s over all. Maybe they made it too well. It will be hard to convince me to give it up for a "Windows 8". I was so happy with XP that I skipped Vista.
Reply to this comment
by dhavleak November 20, 2009 12:36 PM PST
I'm not sure I understood what you mean by "first page" and "second page" of the start menu? <br /> <br />The "recent items" menu (or list if you prefer) is actually turned off by default in Win7. I guess the reasons for that are manifold: <br /> <br />1) Assuming you use taskbar shortcuts for your frequently used apps (lets say word, excel, some xml editor, etc. for arguments sake) -- in the taskbar, if you right-click the icon for each of those apps, you'll get an MRU (most recenly used) list of files for that app. That actually expands the ability of the MRU list quite significantly since the old unified list could only hold so much. <br /> <br />2) If you don't have a shortcut for some application, I *assume* the expectation is that this is a less-frequently used app so it's unlikely the file would have been in the global MRU list anyway -- so your fastest way of getting to the file would probably be: Hit Windows-key &gt; Type name of doc (or some unique text within it) and it should come up pretty quick. If that doesn't work, there's always the old file-explorer. <br /> <br />Unless I completely misunderstood you -- which is likely 'cos I really didn't get the bit about first/second page of the start menu. <br /> <br />About the data bit: Sinofsky isn't saying he won't listen to a discussion on the issue. It's just that the decision won't happen based on a discussion alone. If a discussion happens, and a powerful case is made for a UI change, then the next step is to take it to the UI labs and get data (possibly do some mockups, have people try one, try the other, get instrumentation on how they performed, etc.) -- if the lab tests show it's an improvement, then incorporate it into the product at beta time (again, with instrumentation), get feedback from millions of beta testers -- this feedback is coming from the instrumentation built in, so that now generates the data, and you finally have a conclusive way of deciding whether it's an improvement or not -- and based on that, the change stays or goes.
by Mergatroid Mania November 20, 2009 1:36 PM PST
If you click on the start menu, the first thing you see on the left hand side is the "most recently used" list.<br /><br />If you use a program, for example outlook, the next time you open the start menu you will see an icon for Outlook on the left side. This might depend on how you have the start menu set up. I had originally tried everything I could to remove the left half, and ended up with a blank white page. So, I added some directories but unfortunately you cannot set directories on the left side to open as a menu, only those on the right side can do that.<br /><br />This white left side of the start menu is what I refer to as the "first page" because, if you look at the bottom of the menu you will see a "button" called All Programs, and if you click on it you will see the "second page" which will come up and replace the first page. This second page operates more like the XP start menu, and I would have liked to have it come up first by default.<br /><br />As for searching, sure that's a nice way to find what you're looking for. However, I would prefer if what I am looking for is right there for me to click on so I don't have to type anything at all, just click. This is how I had my XP start menu set up. Every program I used was right in front of me, I didn't have to type anything ever, just click on what I wanted.<br /><br />Now, before people start getting on my case about the search option being better, if you like it that way that's fine. And I do use it too. But, I'm using it because I have to. Because my menu is not set up the way I like it. I'm not using it because I think it's better.<br /><br />And, as I said, I have found a third party app (I think it's called Vista Start Menu) that I feel works better. It works a little like a cross between the 7 way and the XP way, and I find I'm getting used to it although I would still prefer to have my old XP start menu back (with the new search in it too).<br /><br />Personally I would like to have the best of both systems, but unfortunately we can't seem to have that.
by dhavleak November 20, 2009 7:11 PM PST
Ahh.. ok -- that makes total sense to me now.. thanks for explaining.. <br /> <br />And no, I won't bug you by suggesting the search option -- sounds like you've received that suggestion enough times :) <br /> <br />One thing I do on my dev machine (I have multiple 1920x1200 monitors do I dunno how well this will work for you) -- I've setup taskbar icons for almost everything I use. (so outlook, word, excel, notepad++, xml editor, visual studio, ie, chrome, wmplayer, explorer, messenger, remote desktop, debugger utils, and a bunch of other stuff). The reason it may or may not work for everyone is 'cos it depends on how much space your taskbar has (screen width). If you can make it work though, there are a couple of advantages: <br /> - when you lauch programs, open docs, etc. they will always occupy the same location on the taskbar. Over time it becomes automatic as to where you expect the icon for each program to be located. Saves time 'cos you no longer have to scan it visually to locate stuff. <br /> - the MRU lists I mentioned -- for example, if you have a word icon on the taskbar, you can just right click that icon anytime and you'll get an MRU list of word docs. <br /> <br />But if I understood you correctly, you're talking about the MRU list for applications -- so unless you can get everything you need onto the taskbar (and if you're ok with that solution) this won't help you at all.
by Renegade Knight November 20, 2009 12:05 PM PST
"He said his philosophy toward Windows really boils down to a single word--responsibility. "There's not another project in software to work on that a billion people use and we take that really, really seriously in the hallways of our dev team," he said." <br /> <br />Lets see if he can get MicroSoft to take responsbility for Vista by fixing it in a way that makes customers happy. I just helped someone install 7 Upgrade, by bypassing Vista so the upgrade would actually work. <br /> <br />7 is What Vista was supposed to be. Vista SP3 Should be 7.
Reply to this comment
by dhavleak November 20, 2009 12:52 PM PST
"Lets see if he can get MicroSoft to take responsbility for Vista by fixing it in a way that makes customers happy. I just helped someone install 7 Upgrade, by bypassing Vista so the upgrade would actually work. " <br />1) What didn't work for you in Vista? Is it fixed in SP2? <br />2) What failed in your upgrade from Vista to Win7? Did that actually work in your upgrade from XP to Win7? <br /> <br />"7 is What Vista was supposed to be. Vista SP3 Should be 7." <br />Why is 7 what Vista was supposed to be? Could you clarify?
by Random_Walk November 20, 2009 1:22 PM PST
He can answer on his own, but here's my take on one of them:<br /><br />"1) What didn't work for you in Vista? Is it fixed in SP2? "<br /><br />Vista's insatiable hoovering of every byte of RAM it could lay hands on, and no it wasn't fixed in SP2.<br /><br />"Why is 7 what Vista was supposed to be"<br /><br />* Unlike Vista, Windows 7 actually understands the term "memory management"<br />* The drivers actually work worth a damn<br />* There isn't an overbearing and all-pervasive UAC popup parade<br />* You know up-front that there's going to be some XP incompatibility this time<br />* Boot times are actually within the bounds of a geologic era now<br /><br />We could go on, but I'm expecting you to get all huffy and puffy in a fit of blind fanboy rage now. <br /><br />Cue it in 3... 2... 1...
by Seaspray0 November 20, 2009 4:24 PM PST
... and I'll huff... and I'll puff... and I'll Bloooooooow your house down! <br /> <br />It's really hard to pass up a queue like that.
by dhavleak November 21, 2009 3:47 AM PST
"He can answer on his own, but here's my take on one of them:"<br />&gt;&gt; I wouldn't have it any other way :)<br /><br />"Vista's insatiable hoovering of every byte of RAM it could lay hands on, and no it wasn't fixed in SP2."<br />&gt;&gt; It's called SuperFetch. The theory is that underutilized memory is wasted memory -- so pre-populate it to avoid hitting the disk. For a detailed analysis, see here: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000688.html<br /><br />"* Unlike Vista, Windows 7 actually understands the term "memory management""<br />&gt;&gt; See above comment regarding SuperFetch. I will grant you that I have observed less disk thrashing in Win7 -- but the memory management algorithm is pretty similar (So how does this back your claim that this is what Vista should have been?)<br /><br />"* The drivers actually work worth a damn"<br />&gt;&gt; Fud. Transition from XPDM to WDDM caused pain at Vista's launch. Nothing wrong with Vista. Nothing about Win7 that changed this. Win7 if anything has more stringent driver requirements (so how does this back your cliam that Win7 is what Vista should have been?)<br /><br />"* There isn't an overbearing and all-pervasive UAC popup parade"<br />&gt;&gt; A good change from a usability perspective. A bad change from a security perspective. At least it's configurable. I'll grant you that configurability is always good, so this would have been welcome in Vista, especially considering the amount of resentment over this feature. I'll also say though, that considering what UAC needed to achieve, it's good that it was more strict in Vista. More on this topic if needed/interested.<br /><br />"* You know up-front that there's going to be some XP incompatibility this time"<br />&gt;&gt; You should have known that about Vista as well. I'd put that down to user error if you didn't know that.<br /><br />"* Boot times are actually within the bounds of a geologic era now"<br />&gt;&gt; I'll grant you that point. Vista should have booted faster. But you can say the same of any OS. Faster is always better. Anytime you get an OS that boots faster, are you always gonna look back at all the slower booting ones and say "this is what that OS should have done!"? No -- you take the progress, and move on.<br /><br />"We could go on, but I'm expecting you to get all huffy and puffy in a fit of blind fanboy rage now."<br />&gt;&gt; Sorry to disappoint..<br /><br />Cue it in 3... 2... 1...
by Random_Walk November 21, 2009 9:40 AM PST
Running 'em in semi-reverse, if you don't mind...<br /><br />"The theory is that underutilized memory is wasted memory -- so pre-populate it to avoid hitting the disk. For a detailed analysis, see here: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000688.html"<br /><br />Oh, I understand that perfectly... the sheer conceptual arrogance coupled with no means of controlling the behavior is what gave us store.exe in Exchange 2007 (which happily eats 95% of available RAM, no matter how much RAM you throw at it). The server makes a great mailbox, but is worthless for anything else (esp. anything that may run intermittently). <br /><br />Now if they can ever design apps that gracefully and quickly give up the extra RAM, cool - but they have yet to do that. I will grant that Windows 7 is a baby step in the right direction, though.<br /><br />"Fud."<br /><br />Oh no - it was very real, as you demonstrated immediately after typing that word. ;)<br /><br />"A good change from a usability perspective. A bad change from a security perspective."<br /><br />True, but due more to Windows' architecture than to any decisions on how UAC works. If Windows had true privilege separation (and not the kludge it does have), this wouldn't have been a problem in the first place.
by dhavleak November 21, 2009 12:45 PM PST
"the sheer conceptual arrogance coupled with no means of controlling the behavior.."<br />Conceptual arrogance? Besides, I think you're complaining about store.exe -- not windows. How does that backup your claim that Win7 is what Vista should have been?<br /><br />"if they can ever design apps that gracefully and quickly give up the extra RAM"<br />You don't design an app to "give up it's memory" (aside from dereferencing/deallocating memory you no longer require), an app (especially a server app with tons of data to serve, and where performance is important like an exchange server) should follow the same design philosophy -- unused memory is wasted memory. As long as memory is available, try to pre-cache stuff.<br /><br />"Oh no - it was very real, as you demonstrated..."<br />Sorry man -- complete FUD. You're suggesting Vista has driver issues. At launch driver availability was a problem. Currently there is no such problem. The change that caused the driver scarcity was not an OS flaw (it was an improvement). Referring to driver issues as a problem with Vista, therefore, is FUD. Especially considering Win7 has more stringent requirements, so if Vista was more like Win7, the driver issues at launch would have been worse. So how does this support you argument that Win7 is what Vista should have been?<br /><br />"If Windows had true privilege separation (and not the kludge it does have)"<br />?? What exactly do you mean by 'true privilege separation'?
by jonathan0766 November 20, 2009 12:18 PM PST
Not to take anything away from the statement about a billion users. That's obviously an incredible number. However.<br /><br />Google's search engine is basically a giant piece of software, and it reaches a billion users generally speaking. And in tandem with that, Linux accordingly touches a billion users (even if a billion people don't use it directly). Cisco software also probably reaches a billion users passing through its products (again even though they're not using it directly). Skype of course has whatever it is now, maybe 600 million user accounts; and of course Facebook will get to that level eventually.<br /><br />Clearly the future holds plenty of software platforms / systems of various types that will achieve or approach the billion marker in one form or another.
Reply to this comment
by Mergatroid Mania November 20, 2009 1:43 PM PST
You cannot compare the software you mention to an operating system. Most of the software you mention (like Google) only needs to function in a few browsers. An operating system like Windows needs to function across a myriad of hardware, in systems riddled with all sorts of weird software and hardware installed in it, and lots of 3rd party drivers. I feel MS has done a good job this time around.<br />You certainly cannot compare that to Google search engine running in three or four browsers.<br /><br />If the Windows software has a problem, then all the other software you mention will reflect that problem as well (depending on the seriousness of the problem). If Google search has a problem, it doesn't affect anything other than Google search.
by eferron November 20, 2009 12:29 PM PST
I think promising dates and discussing software releases before the product formerly enters or exits phase 1 test is just pre-mature. You never know what will come up in a software project. The only estimates I have ever really seen hit from start to finish on a software are the ones that are in a major way over estimated like over estimating by over 70%.<br /><br />Estimates should be taken in small bite sizes like the amount of time to complete development and move to test. Then after test round 1 it may be safer to start discussing possible release dates, but not before.
Reply to this comment
by nSeika November 20, 2009 1:56 PM PST
??people don't want to show up to a restaurant and watch a potato being peeled and taste it half-cooked.? <br /> <br />They just want to know how much the cooks has progressed, and probably nags them to do it quicker. While the peoples following the enthusiasts might not be that interested in deeper technical details, peoples nowadays has lost much of their patiences (speed, speed and more speed), tasting half-baked is fine, We?re starving and something to taste is better than a surprise. <br />Well, personal opinion on that.
Reply to this comment
by cbscowards November 20, 2009 4:51 PM PST
It's refreshing to hear a senior MS exec acknowledge that there is competition out there that could be dangerous to them. I wonder if Ballmer approves.
Reply to this comment
by cvaldes1831 November 20, 2009 8:18 PM PST
People who are competent in building their own PCs don't buy their components at Fry's. Fry's sucks.<br /><br />If you don't live in Silicon Valley, you might end up at NewEgg for your components.<br /><br />If you live in Silicon Valley, you will shop at a real bricks-and-mortar store like Central Computer, Pixel USA, or another mom-and-pop operation. You can tell how sh*tty Fry's is simply by looking at their selection of motherboards.
Reply to this comment
by t8 November 20, 2009 10:27 PM PST
Windows 7 8 9... <br /><br />Who cares?<br /><br />No one. Noobs end up with it when they buy a computer. They don't know any better.
Reply to this comment
by kojacked November 20, 2009 10:46 PM PST
"Noobs end up with it when they buy a computer. They don't know any better." <br /> <br />So I guess Apple's marketshare won't be growing anytime soon since poeple don't care about the OS on the computer they buy. Oh wait... <br /> <br />Thanks for the insite Troll8.
by t8 November 21, 2009 4:09 AM PST
Apple tends to be an informed decision.<br />Windows is the default. Default is for people who don't think.<br />Of course Microsoft has become fabulously rich of the naive.
by skylamer November 21, 2009 1:59 AM PST
yahooooooo guud news
Reply to this comment
by luke_marsh November 21, 2009 2:40 AM PST
Beyond zero point<br />Step 1 Abacus (beed)<br />Step 2 Mechanical compute systems (Cog) <br />Step 3 Electronic compute systems. (Egypt)<br />Step 4 Networked Electronic compute systems ( Turing)<br />Step 5 Internet <br />Step 6 Web<br />Step 7 Cloud (1 micron down to 18nm )<br />Step 8 Crystal ( 18nm to 3 nm ) Ends about 2035<br />Step 9 Quantum scale computing (6nm 0.01nm)<br />Step 10 Free Space computing (Below 0.01nm)<br />Step 11 Gravimetric Computing (time to turn your augmented vision off the real cosmos comes into exploration-al view) <br />step 12 What you thought that was it nope, Time rationalisation dynamic processing ( meet the best of what your close intelligent neighbours get up to) <br />step 13 lower outer cosmic bounds exploration (today primitively referred to as quantum leaping)<br />step 14 higher out bounds and oceanic space exploration<br />step 15 Universalistic model creation with in cosmic bounds<br />step 16 Ocean communicational efficiency and modelling interweaving comic oceanic deviations.<br /><br />Step 17 The blur line between natural occurrence and artificiality <br />Step 18 there is none that the most powerful essence in eternity
Reply to this comment
by luke_marsh November 21, 2009 3:15 AM PST
An Idea for MicroSoft<br />You like click on your illegal content of say a musician you like or some material you want to pay for and Microsoft Bing does a special Entity search where by the user can buy say the music and find out where this music is being play live ect and more about the artist.<br />I call the technology faning about.
Reply to this comment
by solitare_pax November 21, 2009 3:26 AM PST
Is it just me, or does this fellow look like Lex Luthor in the picture?
Reply to this comment
by siberianmetal November 21, 2009 5:33 AM PST
I guess this means we're not supposed to ask whether they're finally going to fix the file system. But it sounds like they're working on that kind of thing now.
Reply to this comment
Showing 1 of 2 pages (93 Comments)
advertisement

Google's social side aims for some Buzz

Facebook and Twitter are the darlings of the social-media world, not Google--which hopes to change that with Buzz, betting it can organize your online social life.

Watching the birth of a gaming start-up

Stewart Butterfield and his friends are back at it with a new company. CNET's Daniel Terdiman was given exclusive, behind-the-scenes access as they built it from scratch.

About Beyond Binary

During her years at CNET, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft.

Beyond Binary is a look at how technology is changing our lives and the people behind all that life-changing stuff, with an extra emphasis on that which emanates from Redmond, Wash.

Add this feed to your online news reader

Beyond Binary topics

Binary Bits

    Follow Ina on Twitter (Twitter name: InaFried)
    advertisement
    advertisement

    Inside CNET News

    Scroll Left Scroll Right