Ballmer: Windows 7 selling like hotcakes

Windows 7 isn't just getting good reviews, it's also selling well, CEO Steve Ballmer told shareholders Thursday.

Delivering opening remarks at Microsoft's shareholder meeting, Ballmer said that Windows 7 was off to a "fantastic start."

"We've already sold twice as many units as any OS in a comparable time frame," Ballmer said. "Windows 7 is simply the best PC operating system that we or anyone else has ever built."

Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer delivers a point at the company's Worldwide Partner Conference in July.

(Credit: Microsoft )

By last week, Windows 7 accounted for 4 percent of Web-accessing devices, according to Net Applications; it took Vista more than seven months to reach that level.

Addressing the overall economy, Ballmer reiterated that things seem to have stabilized.

"The economy has, at least for now, leveled off," he said.

The meeting is still going on and has just entered the question-and-answer session and I'll update this post if anything interesting comes up. So far, though, it's been mostly about local and legislative matters, rather than technological issues.

Microsoft vs. Apple
There was one fun one from a shareholder who noted that young people tend to gravitate toward Macs and that Apple seems to be outmarketing Microsoft.

"You've got a real bad image out there," the shareholder said. "You sure don't have that younger generation."

Ballmer acknowledged that there are "certainly always opportunities for improvement."

"We all watch television," he said.

That said, Ballmer noted that "96 times out of 100, worldwide, people choose a PC with Windows."

He added that even in the toughest market--the high end of the U.S. consumer market--Windows is chosen 83 times out of 100.

"That doesn't let us rest on our laurels," Ballmer said. "Apple has picked up a couple tenths of a percent of market share."

But those couple tenths matter, he agreed. He said the downturn in the economy has actually bolstered Windows' competitive position. "People understand that Macintoshes are quite a bit more expensive."

Another questioner asked why Microsoft can't better compete against Apple's iPhone and other smartphones.

"Certainly our objective is to have the leading position," Ballmer said. "I think we have a lot of opportunity to improve...Undoubtedly we've got our work cut out for us."

He did say that Microsoft has put a lot of smart people on the task.

"We've got our heads down to do our best," Ballmer said.

[Mr. Dee]

-- "96 times out of 100, worldwide, people choose a PC with Windows.<br />-- even in the toughest market -- the high end of the U.S. consumer market, Windows is chosen 83 times out of 100<br />-- "People understand that Macintoshes are quite a bit more expensive." <br /><br />That should keep all the Justin Long aficionados quite.

[CDubber]

"People understand that Macintoshes are quite a bit more expensive."<br /><br />That should explain Apple's selling more and more Macs every quarter.<br /><br />Perhaps people are tired of getting what they pay for with Windows?

[dverlaque]

'Quite'? Or 'quiet'? That should keep you quiet, at least until you learn how to spell.

[pentest]

Very few people choose Windows.

[eltoro2827]

I dont understand the mac vs pc commercials. if justin long is a mac why the hell would i want to look like a doofus. that guy is jist plain ugly.

[stickfu]

Does Ballmer count these as sales too?..<br /><br />http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/infotech/view/20091119-237202/Pirated-Windows-7-selling-like-hotcakes<br /><br />Bet he does!

[johnsbrn1]

I wonder how many people voluntarily switch from mac to PC? Has anyone switched from PC to mac and then back to PC again? I know a lot of people who have switched from PC to mac, and after switching most of them are upset that they waited so long.

[David Dudley]

I switched from PC to Mac back to PC as my main "desktop" OS. Unlike some people, I liked Vista once SP2 came out and really love Windows 7. And I am a former Apple worker drone (I worked on various projects and spent a good deal of my time in IL7 with the rest of the Apple alcoholics in denial).

[theveggiedude]

"even in the toughest market -- the high end of the U.S. consumer market, Windows is chosen 83 times out of 100"<br /><br />That should keep all the Justin Long aficionados quite.<br /><br />--<br /><br /><br />I think Ballmer missed the report that said Apple has 91% of the high end market (all machines that cost $1000 and up). Apple could possibly have a larger market cap than Microsoft and be the number one company in the world a year from now.

[Renegade Knight]

@johnsbrn1 <br /> <br />I Hate my macbook's design. The keyboard is crap (not as bad as Toshiba though) the key layout horrid in that it's missing keys that make life easier. I'm learning the shortcuts but find that most of them take more keystrokes than Windows. OS X isn't better for my needs but it's perfectly good for mose things. Build quality and features seem to be pretty good. <br /> <br />Overall though I'd rather run OS X as a boot option on a Thinkpad than buy another Mac. Practicaly speaking that's not as easy to do as putting Windows on a Mac so I may get stuck buying a Mac when I'd rather have something else.

[Mr. Dee]

@dverlaque Stop acting like a dumb fool, its a simple mistake. That's you the typical Mac user who likes to criticize **** no one cares about. Stay irrelevant, because that is what you are.

[chabig83]

...except that people don't "choose" Windows. It's mandated to them by their employer or simply comes with the computer they get at Best Buy.

[solitare_pax]

True - the myth that Macs are more expensive still lives on, while drones using the cheapo computer bargain from the big box store still wonder why their spiffy new machine doesn't run as fast as it should with a low-power Centrino processor and a minimum amount of RAM... <br /> <br />Still - I'm glad Mr. Ballmer has time to watch old-school television.

[hafenbrack]

Someone still has to choose...and Best Buy does sell Macs. you should ask a Best Buy employee what they sell more of then. Flat out it's Windows machines.

[empirestatebuddy]

I "chose" Windows 7. I could've bought a Mac, but chose not to. Windows PCs run thousands of more programs, thousands of more games, and are more customizable (hardware-wise and software-wise). I don't know about you, but THAT'S what I use a computer for.

[brian.lee]

"by empirestatebuddy November 19, 2009 9:30 AM PST<br />I "chose" Windows 7. I could've bought a Mac, but chose not to. Windows PCs run thousands of more programs, thousands of more games, and are more customizable (hardware-wise and software-wise). I don't know about you, but THAT'S what I use a computer for."<br /><br />How many programs do you actually use on a day to day basis? So you buy a PC so you can change the software and hardware? Sounds like more of an enthusiast than an actual "user"

[rapier1]

Sure they choose windows. When they buy their computer at Best Buy they make the choice to buy a machine with Windows on it. That's called choosing Windows. They have the option to buy a machine with OS X but they choose not to.

[Renegade Knight]

@solitare_pax <br /> <br />Mac Books are more expensive. Pricing out my Thinkpad W500 I get about 2200 for everthing. Same MB Pro with the same options is going to be 2800. <br /> <br />I find the tax to be 200-500 in most cases for QUALITY laptops. I can do far better with the less expensive ones.

[cary1]

People can buy Macs at Bestbuy if they want. Nobody forces them to buy PCs (except their wallet).

[sharmajunior]

Uhhh, Bestbuy also sells Macs......!?

[cary1]

@solitare_pax<br /><br />I dont know which world you live in, but Macs are expensive. Plus they dont have good software available. They can't play Blu-rays, can't record TV, can't do touch screen. They should cost half of what a PC costs.

[Rolker]

A lot of people that I know waited for Win 7 to come out before they bought a new system. I am planing to upgrade to Win 7 some time in the near future.<br />Win 7 is a great OS, and everyone that is using it is extremely happy. <br />No one forces you to buy Windows base PC, but it is a fact that they are the best solution for your money.

[cbscowards]

"We've got our heads down to do our best," Ballmer said. <br /><br />That must be comforting to the iPhone design team. They can take a long lunch. Or pay attention to what Google is up to next.

[Random_Walk]

I'm guessing the latter.<br /><br />One thing that seems to be missing is, okay, Windows 7 is selling better than Vista. But, how much of those sales are used as replacements for existing Windows installs? <br /><br />If Apple's marketshare dropped, that would be reason to crow, but until then, he's just bragging that Windows 7 is replacing a bunch of old NT/2000/XP/Vista machines. One would think that if Windows 7 were all that and a bag of chips, it would've taken some share away from its competitors.

[catch23]

That is good advise for the iPhone team.<br />Netscape did the same thing. So did Word Perfect.<br /><br />It will be nice to see history repeating itself with WinMobile 7

[Super2online]

@Random_Walk - You mean the 10 or 11% share their two competitors own. If that never happens, it's nothing to sweat over. He also said it was selling better than any OS in a comparable time frame, not just Vista. They would also be making a huge mistake if they weren't crowing about the numbers. Tooting you're horn is a big part of any successful marketing campaign. You celebrate you're succeses publicly and privately.

[victor_nyc]

I've had my iPhone for almost 2 years and I loved it for about a month. I actually bought 2 and had to have them both replaced under warranty for "glitches". I'll be going for a Drone next time. At least it has a battery that can be replaced without having to send the phone back to Apple and paying $75 for a rental phone. How ridiculous is that?

[kojacked]

"But, how much of those sales are used as replacements for existing Windows installs?" <br /> <br />Always looking to spin the negative Peng.. I could make a similar statement. <br /> <br />"But, how much of those sales are not used as replacements for existing Windows installs?" <br /> <br />What you really mean is <br /> <br />"Oh please mommy tell me that Windows 7 sales are for replacements or that people will just stop buying it cause I hates the Microsofts and want them to die! die! die! Please mommy say it ain't so!" <br /> <br />Yep, Microsoft is sooooo yesterday. I can't wait for them to fail as you have predicted so many times in the past.

[Random_Walk]

"You mean the 10 or 11% share their two competitors own."<br /><br />...which seems to be increasing with each passing month. Tehrein lies the problem - right now, Microsoft's slice of the pie is shrinking, not growing. They need to at least make it stop shrinking.

[Random_Walk]

"But, how much of those sales are not used as replacements for existing Windows installs?"<br /><br />Considering that the competition is still growing at an ever-increasing speed, probably not that many. Logic tends to fill in the blanks, y'know. May want to try it sometime. ;)

[CDubber]

Ballmer taking shots at Apple in the long term always result in sweaty Ballmer foot inserted deeply into large Ballmer maw.<br /><br />Keep talking, Ballmer, while Apple keeps innovating.

[1812dave]

let's talk about "innovation". How long did it take for apple to provide cut &#38; paste for the iPhone? When will the iphone do true multitasking? What about the crappy mice Apple makes, including the newest weirdo mouse? When all is said and done, Apple computers can't run the breadth of software available for the PC world. For me it's a simple choice--I can pay LESS and do MORE with a PC. Win 7 rocks, btw.

[Super2online]

@1812dave - "I can pay LESS and DO MORE". I couldn't have said it better.

[TujuMaster]

@1812dave, It's great that you can pay less and do more but Apple is still innovating. All these features that Windows 7 claims to originate actually originated on the Mac. You can't deny Apple's innovation because everyone copies them. Someone was innovative when they put the first radio in cars and now everyone has one. What an innovation?

[jaspal.m]

apple is actually at # 5 behind hp acer dell and toshiba.....in terms of computer sales number... <br />all you fools should knows how to calculate that,,,and what does this really mean.... <br /> <br />twitter @jaspall

[Renegade Knight]

@TujuMaster <br /> <br />Apple does innovate. That said they aren't the only one and Apple uses some things that MS came up with first. Like the Dock. <br /> <br />OS X is built on Unix, meaning Unix was the copied innovation that Apple borrowed, and so on. There is enough innovation done by everone to where everone is going to have to copy someone.

[dverlaque]

How fast is Windows 7 selling?<br />How fast did Snow Leopard sell?<br /><br />Compare the percentage of users who upgraded, not the number of people. <br /><br />In any case, Windows 7 is selling so well because no one wants to stay with Vista. Microsoft therefore is selling Windows 7 at a high price because some people want to upgrade Vista but not pay for a new computer, Mac or PC.

[Sardonik]

Or, you know, it could be the logical choice to move from XP? I moved my gaming rig to 7 from XP and it's been better than ever.

[Get_Bent]

Or you have a bunch of Windows XP users who are tired of dealing with the security issues in that 8-year-old operating system, and they skipped Vista entirely.

[Random_Walk]

Two different world, for a couple of reasons:<br /><br />* Snow Leopard doesn't work on PPC-based (G4/G5) machines, nor was intended to.<br />* OSX can go for quite a long time w/o requiring upgrades/updates - they were supporting OSX 10.3 for patching/updates when I switched to Leopard on my PowerMac earlier this year, and are likely still supporting it.<br />* application compatibility is still just fine in nearly all cases (cf. Universal Binaries).

[bananaphonerules]

@Random_Walk <br /> <br />"OSX can go for quite a long time w/o requiring upgrades/updates " <br />So can Windows. But its the ISV (vendors) that determine when you have to upgrade. <br /> <br />Oh you need Snow Leopard to run the latest...blah blah. <br />(knowing I just had to get a new iMAC for my graphic artist for this reason) <br /> <br />"Snow Leopard doesn't work on PPC-based (G4/G5) machines" <br />"application compatibility is still just fine in nearly all cases " <br />Huh? Relate these two together.

[Super2online]

Only a small percentage of Windows users ever upgraded to Vista from 2000 and XP, so your statement implying that they are are Vista users is way off base.

[Random_Walk]

" "Snow Leopard doesn't work on PPC-based (G4/G5) machines"<br />"application compatibility is still just fine in nearly all cases "<br />Huh? Relate these two together."<br /><br />Easily:<br /><br />* application != OS<br />* the key to the latter lies in the term "Universal Binaries" (basically, apps which run just fine as they are on a G4/G5 CPU -or- an x86 CPU. They are also known as "fat binaries").

[jaspal.m]

apple is actually at # 5 behind hp acer dell and toshiba.....in terms of computer sales number... <br />all you fools should knows how to calculate that,,,and what does this really mean.... <br /> <br />twitter @jaspall

[vikinzer]

That's a nice way to spin Windows 7 numbers. Or you could look at them for what they are, a testament to the failure of Vista. The fact is Windows 7 hasn't been experienced by enough people that they would know it's the best OS ever made, and I'll be kind and say it is. Even so his logic fails. People upgrade OS based on need, or standard business product cycle. Until people have seen the OS at work for an extended period of time the average user won't even know to upgrade. So rapid upgrades before exposure can only really be a statement about what the users are already sitting with. In the Devil you know or Devil you don't idiom, Vista is so bad people want the Devil they don't know. That says something.

[Super2online]

You have been watching to many horror flicks.

[pentest]

Maybe selling at retail, but that will drop off very soon.<br /><br />Enterprise is not moving towards 7 yet of course, and if they don't eventually, in much greater numbers than the handful of organizations that bought into Vista, Microsoft is dead.

[empirestatebuddy]

They will... and Microsoft will live on to annoy another day. ;)

[Random_Walk]

They might, but that depends on a few more factors than have been expressed here. <br /><br />Usually the enterprise market will take a year or more before even considering an OS upgrade across-the-board.

[renGek]

The enterprise market knows about 7 thats why they've been sitting on their XP machines.<br />The companies I work with are all waiting to upgrade. Its just a matter of time. It doesn't make sense for companies to not do so.

[victor_nyc]

Our enterprise is moving to Windows 7 but, very slowly. Most corporations don't move into ANY software until it's been fully vetted. True Vista wasn't worth it. That's why most corporations stayed with XP. Now is the logical time to upgrade to Windows 7. <br /><br />The bottom line is that more people, companies, etc., buy PC's than MAC because they can write software inhouse for PC's more easily. You buy software for a MAC. PC's are a bigger chunk of the market simply because IBM licensed the PC architecture while Apple set on theirs. They missed the boat and will NEVER make up the difference. Apple has no one to blame but themselves for the number of people using PC's. And, the reason that there are more malware and viruses for PC's is just because there are more PC's and that they are easier to work with. PC's are easier to write stuff for and easier to get under the hood. It's a double edged sword, more freedom and configurability means more people can do more with it.

[1812dave]

You win an award....for must clueless, inane comment so far, in this thread. "if...Microsoft is dead". Yeah, right Jobs fanboi. If you aren't careful, I'll tell your mommy you have been on her Mac again--step away from the keyboard, son.

[TujuMaster]

@victor_nyc, You're actually mistaken. It's actually easier to code for the Mac as the operating system does most of the work. Especially with GrandCentral dispatch, my developers don't have to worry about what does what. They can take a few lines from a PC project, remove about 20% of the code for threading, and then check off the box for the binary they wish to create, and done.<br /><br />As for getting under the hood, that depends on what you're trying to do. Most consumer software should never have to even touch the kernel. The stuff that does is easier to configure depending on what you're trying to do. Tweaks on the Unix level don't require much skill at all provided you know what you're doing.

[pentest]

1812 Dave,<br /><br />Clueless? Don't you know that Windows is a huge part of MS's sales figures and enterprise consists of the lions share of that?<br /><br />Vista was a flop in the enterprise, it is the reason 7 was rushed out so quickly. When Vista first showed up, MS was starting to talk about moving towards something like its Singularity project in R&#38;D. <br /><br />MS depends on enterprise upgrades, two OS cycles with poor sales will kill them.<br /><br />*************************<br /><br />"Usually the enterprise market will take a year or more before even considering an OS upgrade across-the-board."<br /><br />Yeah, that is why I said: "Enterprise is not moving towards 7 yet of course"

[empirestatebuddy]

Windows7 is definitely a success (and deservedly so). It's a good OS. The question is whether it can gain back some of the market share it's lost (though slight) over the past decade. There are signs that Win7 may grab back market share from Apple internationally (Win7 should pass OSX's market share any day now), but it's less clear whether Windows can gain back market share in the US, where Apple is still growing pretty steadily.

[Random_Walk]

"The question is whether it can gain back some of the market share it's lost (though slight) over the past decade."<br /><br />It has to slow down the losses first - the latest indications show that it is still bleeding off marketshare. They don;t have too much longer to act, as their losses are accelerating as time passes.

[Super2online]

Time is on Microsofts side where it comes to Windows 7.

[Seaspray0]

@random walk. What latest indications? From who and what time period do they apply?

[Random_Walk]

"Time is on Microsofts side where it comes to Windows 7."<br /><br />In some aspects, you are correct - they still have a lot of marketshare that can bleed off before it becomes critical.<br /><br />OTOH, the competition is increasing their collective presence at an accelerating rate. Proof? Check out Net Applications for a moment: <br /><br />Apple went from ~2% (est.) marketshare in 2000 to 3.3% in Nov. 2007, a rise of only 1.3% in 7 years, or only 0.18% growth per year. The past two years alone have seen that growth come up to 5.2%, and 1.3% of that arrived over just the past year. <br /><br />By all indications, the curve is accelerating. Even if you put the original Apple marketshare at a literal 0% in 2000, the curve is still accelerating.<br /><br />If things continue as they have been, Apple will be gaining 3% marketshare per annum by this time next year, 6% per annum by 2011, etc... <br /><br />If Apple ever reaches critical mass (say, 15-20% according to Net Applications' count), Microsoft will end up with a fight on their hands for many, many reasons. If my guesstimates are correct, that 15% will arrive by (roughly) this time in 2012 (cue ominous music, and John Cusack running like hell - heh).

[pentest]

7 is in no way a success, unless you define success as it was released.

[pentest]

"Time is on Microsofts side where it comes to Windows 7."<br /><br />Hardly, 7 was rushed out the door because of the failure of Vista, they needed something to sell as quickly as possible.

[The_happy_switcher]

Make sure those hotcakes come with lots of gloopy heavy syrup, i.e., the usual antivirus bloatware suite.

[Seaspray0]

You still troll here, applerocks1996? You promised the cnet police you would be nice this time, but you haven't changed a bit.

[Sardonik]

Windows 7 is great and all but don't break your hand patting yourself on the back Balmer :P.<br /><br />As to young people, honestly I've always been a windows person growing up, I can't imagine any of the PC gaming young people changing to macs. All my fellow CS majors seem to either be on windows laptops or linux netbooks, so it doesn't feel like they're making too much headway.

[xanthorp]

Your fellow CS majors are brainwashed automatons.

[Sardonik]

Macs are slavery, sorry. Gotta be able to customize hardware and software above all else. Good use of the word "automatons" however.

[rapier1]

Yes, brain washed automatons... That must be the only reason for it. Why can't we all just be individuals and uniformly use Macs like everyone else?

[egghead1619]

As a CS Grad I agree. However, we as a group are not fooled by outward appearances of systems unlike the majority of the market. Also, if you were to see any MAC, made after the Intel switch, in the CS department, I highly doubt that it would not have, at the least, a virtual machine running Windows.<br /><br />I, for one, am still waiting for a laptop with a backlit keyboard, matte screen, WXVGA+ resolution, processor mixing efficiency and performance, switchable graphics (with high-end discrete card), and a user replaceable battery (preferably hot-swappable) all for around $1800. If Apple produces such a machine, then I'll buy it and slap Windows onto it.<br /><br />I logically separate the OS from the hardware and personally feel that, barring any real hardware conflicts, any OS should be able to run on any hardware. I still can't see why Apple hasn't been slapped down for this.

[renGek]

They are not brainwashed. They are smart enough to know where the job market is and where the high paying jobs are. Those CS grads know that when they look for work they will find plenty of opportunities around the world. <br /><br />And isn't it ironic you would consider PC users as automatons since PC users can configure and customize their hardware to death while macs........all the same which is what apple wants. You know kind of like if we all wore the same cloths, ate the same food....fun.

[pentest]

I am a CS graduate student, and most of my fellow students, and the undergrads are MS fanboys, and not one can articulate a technical reason why they are.<br /><br />Hype lives in CS.

[Oso_Grande]

No thanks, I'll keep my Mac. :)

[NPGMBR]

Thank you, I'll keep my PC.

[jaspal.m]

apple is actually at # 5 behind hp acer dell and toshiba.....in terms of computer sales number... <br />all you fools should knows how to calculate that,,,and what does this really mean.... <br /> <br />twitter @jaspall

[JessicaInPink]

I heard Apple comments make Ballmer run backstage to take a dump

[Seaspray0]

Potty humor. The mactrolls are sinking to new lows.

[theveggiedude]

Ballmer is always saying choice is good, and it bolsters innovation, and that he welcomes competition. If he is truly sincere, how come he has never lobbied Apple to sell Mac OS X for all PC's worldwide? Surely, that would be putting his money where his big mouth is.

[cloudmatt]

not to insult but even if he would apple would probably decline. Because of the proprietary hardware requirements for Mac it is able to give very targeted and stable performance. To support the mountain of hardware that windows can would cost a lot of time and money in R&#38;D and loosen their grip on the customer with the Apple one two punch of hardware and software not to mention add quite a bit of stability issues trying to keep up with every conceivable hardware combination.

[theveggiedude]

"not to insult but even if he would apple would probably decline"<br /><br />I don't think so. Remember ten years ago MS and Apple got all chummy and agreed to 'certain things'. I believe part of the agreement is that Apple won't let OS X be sold to PC's. If Ballmer went public and invited Apple to do so, I think Jobs would take him up on it.

[Super2online]

The world already has a choice no matter what Balmers says or does, they have chosen Windows.

[Seaspray0]

@theveggiedude. Going from making an OS that works on a VERY limited hardware platform to one that will run on everthing is WHY apple will decline. Plug and play with all the world's hardware is a microsoft inovation, not apples.

[ThinkBeforeYouPost]

This 96% market share and similar numbers keep being quoted, but I have never seen how they are calculated. I am sure they count all the corporate desktop licenses rather than the actual number of PCs in use, but do they also count all the ATMs and POS devices that run some version of Windows? How about the two old Thinkpads and the three homebuilt machines in my garage that I have not booted up in years, do they count too? If we knew where these numbers come from, perhaps we would find out that when they have the choice, people may not chose MS all that often.

[renGek]

If the numbers were inaccurate don't you think Apple would be all over it by now?

[The_happy_switcher]

"Windows 7 is simply the best PC operating system that we or anyone else has ever built."<br />I think Ballmer has been sniffing too many fumes from his underarm deodorant. I guess when you got river pits like him you got spray the whole can. Need proof? Warning, may scare little children and make babies cry:<br />http://justanothermobilemonday.com/Wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/steveballmersweatingjpg.jpeg<br /><br />Keep out of

[stickfu]

looks like an out take from "Young Frankenstein" (colourized)

[Super2online]

It's pretty bad when the best you can come up with is how much he sweats. Substance, anything?

[Seaspray0]

@applerocks1996. When you can convince anyone that people decided what computer to buy based on how much ballmer sweats, then I will appogize for doing this.... <br /> <br />You're the WORST of the apple fanboy TROLLS. Truely pathetic.

[ywkhgqo]

My one friend who switched to mac from PC is now planning to buy a PC again after his macbook dies. As he said apple's stuff doesn't "just work" like they claim it does. In windows 7, however, it all does work.

[sanjayb]

Funny. My Mac seems to work fine. Everything seems to work. Even the Win 7 installation works on it.

[Random_Walk]

Hint: Anybody can claim anything. I'll take it seriously when I see the marketshare movement reverse.

[The_happy_switcher]

I wasn't aware that Windows 7 is 'hardware' or that MSFT makes hardware to make a valid comparison with a Macbook. I've owned about 10 different Apple products the last 4 years and nothing has ever failed from a hardware standpoint.

[rapier1]

Actually I know several people that went from PCs to Macs and then back to PCs. one of them told me that she just was more comfortable with Windows. I am sure there will now be a hundred nabobs declaiming that she was wrong. Whatever. Life is too short for this sort of bull.

[Super2online]

@Random _Walk - You won't have long to wait.

[davidlawless]

Windows 7 sales still seem to be distorted by the fact the Microsoft is counting current sales of XP as Windows 7. Just bought 5 HP boxes with XP pre-installed and all of them indicated they were Windows 7 on the outside... This is exactly the same as in previous years when we purchased PCs with XP preinstalled and they were labeled as Vista.<br /><br />We're in a niche business with few software choices and some of our current software still will not run under Vista, so we're not jumping to Windows 7.

[cloudmatt]

OK so here is the thing that gets me on a daily basis. Mac fan-boys scream up and down Mac is infallible and windows is without merit. Now I'm not about to say that Windows is a perfect OS and I'm not remotely crazy enough to use the term "best" to describe any OS. Unfortunately and where there will be screaming and gnashing of teeth from Mac fans when i say some of your argument is flawed.<br /><br />First thing is the "Forced" into windows argument. In our capitalistic society any company is allowed to sell their product as they will. Hp/Compaq, Dell, Acer and the like are willing to sell their systems to anyone willing to buy them for retail ie. Walmart. These companies install Windows on their systems because there is no other OS option for them, Apple won't let them. The same road block is thrown up to the system builder, even if he uses as good and or better parts as those in the comparable Mac system Apple tells him that they do not support the OS install and that he would be breaking the law putting their OS on his system. If anyone is forcing people to Windows it's Mac's marketing.<br /><br />Second thing is Viruses. OK I know there are very few viruses for the Mac much like the comparably bairn landscape as Mac software. Mac is also the first to get hacked at the PWN 2 OWN contests and has been shown to have more known security risks than Vista or 7(http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/security-snow-leopard). No one is after the Mac it's not profitable to attack the Mac and Mac is such a minor player in the big picture it gets to sit in a place of false security.<br /><br />Lastly is power. Mac is a very thin OS and does run very light and nimble on even fairly outdated equipment. This is a good thing that means more memory space and processor overhead to run applications. Then we run into problems, Photoshop, FinalCut, Premier and other Mac friendly high end apps run great but there are so many other fish in the MS sea then there is in the Apple pond. Apple runs only Apple software, it runs it very well but only Apple compatible software. If you want to play the latest games use Avid or any one of the thousands of power hungry apps that PC users use you have to either Bootcamp XP or emulate XP. Every time you have to do that I can't seem to understand why you didn't just get a PC and be done with it.<br /><br />Macs are nice, I kinda want a Mac book for simple surfing and media consumption. I think the Mac fans should take a closer look at PC and take a page from the Windows 7 book and tell Steve what you don't like and more importantly what you would like. Until Mac is as open as Windows for use and sale they will be excluding them selves from the very market they wish to achieve.

[theveggiedude]

"OK I know there are very few viruses for the Mac..."<br /><br />Wrong. There have been zero found in the wild. The few you speak of were 'proof of concept' in the lab.<br /><br />Mac users can and do take a look at Windows, in either Boot Camp or a virtual machine. We don't like what I see, but &lt; 3% of my time I need to be in a Windows environment.

[Random_Walk]

"In our capitalistic society any company is allowed to sell their product as they will."<br /><br />...until you throw money into the equation. Dell, HP, et al get some rather massive "marketing" funds (read: kickbacks) and deeply discounted license costs in order to pimp Windows on their wares. If, say, IBM were to ever do something similar to pimp Linux, you can bet that you would start reading "Dell recommends BlahBlah Linux (or whatever)" on every product page instead of Windows.<br /><br />"These companies install Windows on their systems because there is no other OS option for them, Apple won't let them"<br /><br />False dichotomy. Any OEM is perfectly free to build/improve their own Linux distro in-house and sell that - however, they wouldn't do so due to the costs involved (it's currently cheaper to just license it from someone else).<br /><br />"...PWN 2 OWN contest..."<br /><br />This has been covered numerous times before: Miller had local machine access to launch it, and had been sitting on an escalation exploit he had discovered (but did not disclose) more than a year before.<br /><br />"Photoshop, FinalCut, Premier and other Mac friendly high end apps run great but there are so many other fish in the MS sea then there is in the Apple pond."<br /><br />OTOH, there are well over 100,000 apps in the iPhone app store. I'm willing to wager that there are at least a similar number of Mac applications out there as well (hint: http://www.versiontracker.com). The whole numbers argument fails once the numbers get large enough that it no longer matters, but becomes a question of app brand choice and loyalty.<br /><br />"...and take a page from the Windows 7 book..."<br /><br />Do you know what a 'recursive loop' is? Now why would Apple want to complete one design-wise? ;)

[cloudmatt]

@veggie<br /><br />Prove there is a complete lack of viruses. Give a source. With the lack of anti-virus software on macs around the world they could all be infected and the users might never know. Your statement is like Ray Charles saying he didn't see the Yankees win the world series.<br /><br />Good for you you don't need to bootcamp/virtual machine for 97% of your life. You still just admitted that mac does not do everything you need and that you still have to rely on windows.

[cloudmatt]

@random<br /><br />linux is not mac and not yet really viable for most consumers yet, I hope some day it is. I'd rather pay nothing for a striped down simple os then empty my wallet(either mac or win) on flash and flair, but most users want a cuddly os they can hug. You are right with pwn 2 own(the exploit still stood for over a year no fix) though you don't refute the link. i-Phone apps is not a comeback they proved a 14 year old girl could write and publish an i-Phone app doesn't mean I'd use it. And really there isn't one thing you would change/add/take away from OSX?

[stickfu]

"First thing is the "Forced" into windows argument"<br />If you build your own rig, then you are free to install anything you wish. Try this.. (I did) not so long ago I wanted to buy a nice laptop but being someone who does`nt want/need Windows I asked the sales person can you knock the price of the Windows license off because I`ll never use it. The answer..NO, I even offered to unbox the machine in the store, wipe the drive clean and install Linux right in front of them as a show of good faith. He apologized and agreed with me that no Windows license will be sold, but in the end he basically told me that there`s no protocol for him to follow regarding selling a Windows license free laptop from ANY manufacturers products they carry. (I asked to see if any would) Is that "forced" into Windows?, YES it is, that`s a tax plain and simple, so much for choice.

[kojacked]

"Is that "forced" into Windows?, YES it is, that`s a tax plain and simple, so much for choice." <br /> <br />So StickFud I suppose you can waltz into an Apple Store and walk out with a mac with no OS installed too, right? Did you get your "2010 - Year of the Linux Desktop" bumper sticker yet? <br /> <br />"Any OEM is perfectly free to build/improve their own Linux distro in-house and sell that - however, they wouldn't do so due to the costs involved." <br /> <br />Not even close Random; OEM's tweak the hell out of Windows (you know fill them with marketing bloatware). The real reason is that no one will buy them. Remember the grand Walmart experiment with Linux?

[cloudmatt]

@stick<br />you could have bought a mac or gone to either http://www.linuxcertified.com/linux_laptops.html or http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&#38;cs=19&#38;l=en&#38;s=dhs<br /><br />if you noticed the second link is a Dell. You have the option. agreed you have a limited selection at brick and mortar but that's because it's a niche market. by your example it won't be fair till all OS's are available at all stores from all manufacturers. I was simply making the point that since Apple systems are the only(legal) computer OSX can be installed on and Apple holds final say as to who sells their stuff. Mac fans only have Apple to blame for the lack of their systems on the market.

[BelkyB]

@cloudmatt<br /><br />You sir are a complete moron. Mac vs. PC aside, that was the dumbest crap that I have ever read.

[BelkyB]

You're like a school girl with your shiny, pink plastic Windows laptop, complete with a sticker book collection on the palm rest.<br /><br />Do they take you seriously in meetings?

[stickfu]

Ya dink, I mean kojacked, its pretty much well known that Apple ties OSX to its hardware, BTW there are people out there that require a non MS product for work purposes. But then again a 15yr old Halo player would`nt know much about REAL work.<br /><br />@Cloud,<br />You`re right about Dell selling Ubuntu preinstalled machines, and yes OSX is tied to the Mac, that was never in question. But you do realize that every PC manufacturer is pretty much ham stringed into selling Windows (that is if they want preferred OEM pricing) I`m sure you can see in my case why should I pay for a license I`d never use (the machine I got in question was did`nt have this option)<br /><br />Your mileage my vary

[shycelticwitch]

:::::::yawn:::::::: SSDD

[dennisl59]

ditto. this less filling, tastes great routine is so over. in my opinion.

[tlinget]

I like Windows XP. I like Windows 7 even better. I would like Linux better if it was easier to install updates or new apps without having to go to the Terminal, chmod, and other asinine commands. <br /> <br />I would even get a Mac, despite my long hatred of their long history of over-priced and pompous attitudes, if their prices were more reasonable.

[S Nijs]

I cannot remember when I have been to the terminal or type wacky commands to install anything, or upgrade anything, all on openSUSE. Thinking about it, I do know, 2 years ago, to compile a driver for an obscure video capture device, but good luck with that one on Vista or Win7...<br /><br />If I want to upgrade or install software, I simply go to YaST, and do whatever I want to do. II don't need to worry about licenses, crazy validation procedures, anything. <br />Install software: go to YaST search for the software I need, and let it install, most of the time it's up and running within 5 minutes, no reboot required.<br />Upgrade/patch: the auto-updater does that for me. It only takes one root login, and eventually a reboot if the kernel is updated.<br />System wide upgrade: start Yast, show all installed software, right click mouse, and select "upgrade if newer version available". Now that can take a little bit longer...<br /><br />So, better shut up, you don't know what you are talking about. <br />I know that I can run an OS that is 3 months old (Opensuse 11.2 is running a kernel and GUI that is only a few months old) on 5-year old hardware, and I also know that with every upgrade I do the machine gets more responsive.