Windows 7 upgrade version: The dos and don'ts

There's a bit of a tempest in a teapot brewing over what one can and can't do with a Windows 7 upgrade disk.

My hope with this post is to help things simmer down as opposed to boiling over, but we'll see. So here goes.

The upgrade version of Windows 7 (as opposed to the higher-price full version) lets one move from any properly licensed version of Windows XP or Windows Vista to Windows 7 on that same computer. Only certain of these upgrades, however, can be done as a simple update--what Microsoft calls an "in-place upgrade." Users moving from Windows XP, switching from 32-bit to 64-bit versions, or moving from a higher-end version of Vista to a lower-end version of Windows 7 can use an upgrade disc but will have to do a more cumbersome upgrade, known as a custom, or "clean," installation.

The difference between an in-place upgrade and a "clean" installation, in this instance, means backing up one's data, installing Windows 7, restoring the data, and reinstalling all Windows programs. Windows 7 upgrade disks can be used to do this clean installation and will recognize the previously installed version of Windows. So if you don't have any previously installed Windows on the machine, you will want to get yourself a full copy of Windows 7.

While it might be technically possible to use the upgrade disks to do an installation of Windows 7 without a previous version, doing so, as Microsoft points out, is not properly licensed.

Some of the confusion has come after enthusiasts noted a way to get an upgrade disc to install on a fully erased hard drive.

Again, the main issue here is whether one is properly licensed to do so. If you have a licensed copy of Windows XP or Vista for that computer, you are good to go, and Microsoft technical support should be able to help you activate that machine. If not, you may be able to get it to install, but you could well run into technical or legal hurdles.

I think that ZDNet blogger Ed Bott put it well in his post on this topic:

The answer is really simple. If you qualify for an upgrade license, then yes, you can use any number of work-arounds to install the operating system legally. If you don't qualify for an upgrade license, then those same workarounds might technically succeed, but your license is not valid.

Will you get away with it? Probably. But if you're running a business, you run the risk that an employee will turn you in to the Business Software Alliance, which could lead to an audit, civil charges, and eventually some stiff penalties.

It should also be pointed out that beta test and pre-release versions of Windows don't count as a previously licensed version of Windows, but if you have the RC installed over a previous version, for example, you can do a custom upgrade rather than having to reinstall XP or Vista before installing 7. (The upgrade version can detect the previous versions used before Windows 7.)

Nor is it allowed to count the version of Windows that came installed on a previously bought PC, if that's not the machine you're upgrading. (Retail boxed copies can be transferred from one machine to another; ones that came pre-installed on the PC are licensed only for that machine.)

This is also relevant to Mac users who want to run Windows 7 on their machines. Such users also need to have a previously licensed full copy of Windows to properly qualify for upgrade pricing, whether they are using Windows in Boot Camp or using a virtualization product like Parallels or VMWare's Fusion.

I hope that this overview helps more than it adds to the confusion. Either way, please let me know.

[AppleSuxLeo]

OEM is cheaper and full version , no previous version needed. No registry hack.
Buy at Frys all the time. OEM Ultimate $159

[epochawol]

^^This

NewEgg had the Home OEM for $99 on release day.

[fazalmajid]

As pointed out by Ina, the OEM version of XP (whether installed by the system maker or by yourself) only licensed it to use on one computer. Once you installed it on a machine, you were not allowed to install it on any other machine, even if you uninstalled it from the old machine. That's why there is a discount over the full version. I don't know what the Windows 7 licensing terms are, but it's likely they have the same restriction. Of course, the question of what constitutes a "machine" is fraught with complexities. I suppose you could morph a machine into another by upgrading one component at a time.

Another issue for Mac users is that the license may preclude use inside a VM. At one point, the only version of Vista licensed for use inside a VM was the expensive Ultimate edition.

[cbscowards]

Another difference with the OEM version is that Microsoft does not provide any tech support for it. It is intended for "OEM"'s, like HP, Dell, etc., who then take on the support responsibility as part of the package they are selling you. Hence the name "OEM version". So, you can save some money, but don't try to call MS if you have any problems. Because now YOU are the OEM. Try not to keep yourself on hold too long if things go badly.

[Lerianis3]

fazalmajid, that restriction has been called into question by federal law on numerous occasions, so Microsoft is not likely to give you a 'hard time' over transferring an OEM version to another computer, ever.

[Jeremy Chappell]

But that's not legal is it?! By your logic BitTorrent is free...

Seriously, if you're not willing to abide by the terms don't buy the product. Nobody is forcing you.

On the flipside, this is simply stupid, why do Microsoft make users jump through hoops like this? Why are there different versions? I mean if you've built "Ultimate" then how does supplying something else (Home Premium for example) cheaper for you?! Why are there different versions, doesn't that just add cost?

Also where does Microsoft stand on someone who has bought full retail of XP/Vista and buys upgrade for different hardware? As long as I remove XP/Vista from the old system this should be OK - right? The ability to migrate the OS from one machine to another is the key difference between "Full Retail" and "OEM" - this doesn't give me the right to run on more than one machine at a time (although my "honour code" would let me leave the OS on the old machine until after I knew it was working properly on the new one... )

[Brent212]

Ha ha, people call Microsoft for tech support for an OS? Even with the internet?

[umbrae]

Who really cares? Windows should only charge the upgrade price then there would be no confusion or work arounds.

[Random_Walk]

Indeed... I sincerely hope that Microsoft cracks down on all this nasty piracy. Maybe then folks would realize that maybe it's not worth buying what they would rather have you pay for the thing...

[Lerianis3]

Piracy isn't 'nasty', and most of the people who 'pirate' Windows simply do not see any reason to pay AGAIN for Windows, even a new version, or simply cannot afford the upgrade period.

[cbscowards]

@Lerianis3: If someone can't afford the upgrade, or doesn't want to pay for WIndows again, they should stick with what they have. Very few software packages are sold with "lifetime upgrade" options. (A few shareware packages I have bought come to mind, that's all).

What makes you think you are entitled to W7 because you bought a machine with XP on it? Eight pay for the upgrade, or stick with XP. Your old PC will probably be better off with XP anyway. Or should MS be forced to send you free RAM too if the upgrade slows your PC down?

[Random_Walk]

"...and most of the people who 'pirate' Windows simply do not see any reason to pay AGAIN for Windows, even a new version, or simply cannot afford the upgrade period"

If you do not buy the OS, you are pirating it. If you pay for an "upgrade" version and use it instead as a full install, you are pirating it.

It doesn't matter if you can afford it or not - those are Microsoft's terms of payment. If you do not like those terms, then use another OS.

[sargess25]

"by Random_Walk November 2, 2009 6:58 PM PST
It doesn't matter if you can afford it or not - those are Microsoft's terms of payment. If you do not like those terms, then use another OS."

sage advice, move to OS X or Linux (ideally Mint 7) and all this aggro will go away, why people have this masochist wish of keep insisting on Windows (of any flavour)...

[Renegade Knight]

@Lerianis3

If I buy XP/Vista/7 I can and I will install it on any machine I want. It will only be on one machine at a time and it's all fair use.

That said I have a bunch of old clunky laptops and use the same install disk for all of them. I juse use the COA on the laptop for the activation code. Technicly I "broke" the EULA yet the COA authorizes the install on that computer.

Ignoring all that OS X and Linux both install a heck of a lot more smoothly since you don't have the activation issue.

[Renegade Knight]

@Lerianis3

If I buy XP/Vista/7 I can and I will install it on any machine I want. It will only be on one machine at a time and it's all fair use.

That said I have a bunch of old clunky laptops and use the same install disk for all of them. I juse use the COA on the laptop for the activation code. Technicly I "broke" the EULA yet the COA authorizes the install on that computer.

Ignoring all that OS X and Linux both install a heck of a lot more smoothly since you don't have the activation issue.

@Random_Walk
I don't let terms I can't negotiate get in the way of my fair use enjoyment.

[Random_Walk]

"I don't let terms I can't negotiate get in the way of my fair use enjoyment."

Fair Use, I have no problems with.

OTOH, Those are Microsoft's terms, and negotiation is not an option, really. If you want a clean install, then pay the clean install price.

[tersans]

Maybe I am going about this allwrong but I look at a new operating system as a chance to get a new hard drive and a clean install while at the same time preserving my old "stuff" on my "old" hard drive just in case. If you have licensed copy of previous operating system you should have the disk. Anyway I install my old operating system on my new hard drive, just like you would do if the hard drive failed. Then without installing anything else I install whatever version of the new operating system and wallah a new hard drive and a new operating system while preserving intact my old "stuff" just in case. So far so good family computers all switched over with a glitch and Win 7 rocks!! I have done a switch over this way for several versions of new OS's and so far have never had to go back to the "old" disk.

[Jeremy Chappell]

This seems entirely sensible (I'm sure Seagate would agree <wink>) and Microsoft should make this easy. I think part of the problem is so many system builders didn't put the install disks in the box when they sold the PC. Of course, people lose them too!

[ooid]

Actually, I had a similar experience but in my situation I bought the new hard drive to put Windows 7 RC on. I moved the Vista drive to the 2nd serial ata port (not sure that this matters) and the new drive to number 1 spot. I put Windows7 RC on the new drive a couple of months ago so when I put the WIn 7 upgrade disc in and it went through a clean install over the RC without asking for any sort of verification, I thought it was due to the Win7 RC on the drive previously... but it must see the Vista drive in spot two and just count it..

[dverlaque]

Try getting a Mac. Snow Leopard is better than Windows 7 in almost all categories. The few categories that it is not better in, such as running Windows-only programs, can be solved by Boot Camp or similar software.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Mac not have HTPC built in , doesn`t "play to" like 7 , doesn`t let you stream your media files over the net so you can watch your PC media from anywhere in the world. Doesn`t act as DVR.
Additionally SL is a dud.

[streamline35]

So what you're saying is that you can solve snow leapord's problems by (buying) and running windows? lmao, I can't say I disagree with that! (I'd just rather not do it on overpriced hardware with a second boot partition containing a heavily proprietary unix variant)

[dhavleak]

Better for you my friend, better for you. Everyone's needs/expectations aren't the same as yours. Everyone doesn't like/dislike the things you like/dislike.

[AppleSuxLeo]

To fix choppy video issues , Cupertino recommends you buy 7 and run under boot camp.
We don`t have video issues or issues with user date deleted by bugs.
Apple should do public Betas to help quality control.

[techman21]

Why would I want to spend twice as much for an equivalent computer, and then have to buy Windows also?

[cbscowards]

Why bloat up a perfectly good Mac with a VM and Windows? Try to live without it for 3 months. You'll quickly discover that Parallels and Windows is just a crutch for a new Mac user. Put a little effort into learning to use the machine properly, and you'll find that it is unnecessary. It's much cheaper to spend $30 on David Pogue's Missing Manual and save yourself $100-300 for Windows.

[ckh1272]

"by AppleSuxLeo November 2, 2009 1:00 PM PST
To fix choppy video issues , Cupertino recommends you buy 7 and run under boot camp.
We don`t have video issues or issues with user date deleted by bugs.
Apple should do public Betas to help quality control."

@Leo--I'll say it once again. Provide a link to Apple recommending running with Win 7 under Boot Camp. Oh, BTW, doesn't have HTPC built in?? Sorry, but most Win systems don't have it built in either.

[Renegade Knight]

7 and SL do a lot of the same things. Neither is a clear winner unless your specific use works better on one than the other. I've learned that there is no universally perfect OS.

The other day I was enjoying some snappy performance on a MacBook with some Flash programs. Then I needed to copy and past kanji. Nope. SL couldn't do that. I pulled up my clunky XP system and no problem. If I ony had a Mac I would not have been able to finish the task I was doing.

[Yelonde]

@ AppleSuxLeo

"To fix choppy video issues , Cupertino recommends you buy 7 and run under boot camp.
We don`t have video issues or issues with user date deleted by bugs.
Apple should do public Betas to help quality control."

Where did you make that bullcrap up? OS X has video issues? I guess thats why many hollywood studios use FCP on macs because apparently, they have video issues, right? And when did apple every say that they recommend buying windows 7?

You seem to have a common tendancy to lie, typical of a PC fanboy like you. For example, you said that SL does not run a 64 bit kernal when in reality, I am running a 64 bit kernal right now. You claim that OS x has choppy video issues when the vast majority of OS x users can run HD video at silky smooth frame rates.

Either you are a liar for the purpose of convincing unaware cnet readers, or you are completely uneducated about the subject you are talking about. Either way, you shouldn't be chatting on the cnet forums because you have only proven yourself as a troublemaker.

[Jeremy Chappell]

Err, this is hardly the right crowd for that argument is it? Here we're annoyed about being potentially screwed into buying a higher priced OS version just to do what should be easy. You're suggesting a new computer, and new applications to go on it? GET REAL. Even "Buy a new PC with Windows7 already installed" would be easier advice to swallow (at least the old applications would run).

Now I'm not "Anti-Mac" (this is being typed on an iMac that I own) but seriously that "Get a Mac" shtick is hardly very helpful here is it?

Of course, if you are thinking about a new computer - well you should at least consider a Mac (even if you reject it - and there are reasons you might).

[candide08]

MS should make sure their Upgrade WORKS - before telling people that they will be a Pirate if they do a clean install.

My upgrade has failed several times, and MS has no idea how to fix it.
Yest the "advisor" runs clean each time.

So far MS is the PIRATE - they stole $238 from me and I do not have a working product.

If I HAVE to do a "clean" install, they just better not give me any grief over it.

[AppleSuxLeo]

You could have bought OEM Ultimate , which IS the full version for $159. No previous version needed.

[Otto Holland]

Should I say your comment is rather dumb? Microsoft broke your computer and they stole your $238; wow man...wow!

I betcha, your computer has funky hardware or that you really messed it up big time before the install process. Man...I am still stumped at the comments I read on blogs. Here are a few examples if you don't mind:

I began the beta test early release 1 all the way through the RTN; so I have a really good feel of them and various hardware. First install was on an old IBM NetVista P4; ran great but hardly excellent. All drivers worked on first boot, even the old Planar COM 1 Touch screen worked great.

Second test was done using Virtual PC running on a Dell E521 Vista and it too ran very well; even though it ran virtually. Note: The Virtual PC allowed it's own virtual drivers and the NIC report 10GB...equals WOW!

Real world install of licensed version: Windows 7 Home Premium Family pack (3) license for $149.00. Installed on a Dell Dimension 740 with dual core AMD 223 processors and 1.5GB RAM. Original OS was XP Pro that ran beautifully for almost 3 years. Got home, felt a bit peaved and thought...hey way not? Slapped the 64bit DVD in and XP error...nope! can't do that here. Ok? great I thought, I know better than you...

Went to Bios and moved DVD to first boot drive...gotacha! it span up and that's all I wanted. Did custom install that took less than half hour and on completion, all drivers except my old HP c1160 and a Canon CanoScan90 were installed and operational. Ran update driver at system manager and it installed the old HP printer. Went to Canon site and found the WIN 7 64bit driver and ran install. The beast is working perfectly and 100 times better than XP.

Oh, by the way; I installed my Diablo 11 Lord of Destruction with expansion pack and it is working sweet! Level up to 15 in one afternoon.

When people say this new OS killed their computer; even if it was home made, I have to ask what have you done? did you get the software from a Torrent site or what?

Lastly, anyone who upgrade from one version to another is a bit crazy in the head. A Clean install is always the way to go; you know why? All the garbage that was on the original will not be brought over AND since there are so many home hackers who install 30 trial software...guess what folks? The garbage remain and these are the reasons why yout install fail. You would not move junk from an old rotted house into a brand spanking house, would you?

Oops! I should mention: The new install does not delete your old stuff; rather, a folder will be created called Windows.old; there you'll find your old Windows, document and settings and old program files.

It's just better ti install all programs cleanly and copy over your documents. Have fun and don't let this little WIN 7 get to Ya!; all it takes is less than an hour and you'll love it. If your hardware is 64 bit, use it; as it is sweeter than 32bit but don't worry...all your 32 bit programs will work just fine.

[Orion Blastar]

What are you talking about Otto?

I've beta tested every version of Windows since NT 3.1 and Windows 95. The beta version always seems to work better and have more driver support than the RTM version. Most of the Vista issues were driver related, not due to funky hardware. Microsoft removed driver support for a lot of legacy hardware in the RTM of Vista to make room on the DVD for more bloated crap. Windows 7 RTM is supposed to add back in those drivers for legacy software, but only time will tell.

My Compaq F755US laptop crashed with Vista Home Premium all of the time, Compaq blamed Microsoft, Microsoft blamed Compaq, I downgraded to XP and had no problems or crashes ever since. I has the made for Windows Vista logo but would randomly lock up and crash for no reason. Even with just the plain vanilla OS installed and nothing else but an AV program. Windows ME did the same thing to me, and Vista is just ME 2.0 as far as I am concenred. Will Windows 7 be ME 3.0? Who knows as it is too early to tell, as Windows ME didn't get discovered that it was crap until two years after the RTM version was released. It took that much time to figure out that the OS was buggy as was driver support.

If you had Vista run stable, it is because Microsoft supported your hardware via drivers, my Compaq F755US laptop says otherwise and there are many of us who got "robbed" by Microsoft in Vista not doing what it promised and having crappy driver support and random crashes. Microsoft writes good drivers for some hardware and then crappy drivers for others because they were "in a hurry" to get Vista out the door. Then they never fixed the bad drivers and the OEMs who used the drivers like Compaq never updated them or fixed them either.

I've been robbed by Microsoft of more than $238 if you count my Windows ME and Windows Vista licenses, but I got a good deal on the Windows 7 Upgrade DVDs but I am waiting for more RAM to come in to bump my system up to 4Gigs of RAM because Windows 7 is a memory hog and while XP ran great in 512m or 1Gig, Windows 7 needs at least 3Gigs to run fast enough to matter and 4Gig is the sweet spot and also the memory limit on the 32 bit edition of Windows 7 (and Vista and XP) because Bill Gates thought that 640K er ah 4Gigs ought to be enough for anybody. :)

[Lerianis3]

Try doing a 'clean install', and they shouldn't give you any 'grief' over it in the slightest. If they try.... just get something like 7Loader, which is a 'piracy program' but which I was forced to go to because I also had to do a 'clean install' on my machine.

[Lerianis3]

OrienBlaster, you are totally wrong. They removed the old support for legacy applications and drivers because THAT is where most of the damned Blue-Screens were coming from.... old drivers that were not written very well at all.
Microsoft did the RIGHT THING by removing support for those old drivers and applications.

[Commandoclone87]

Wow, Orion Blastar, what are you doing on your computer that makes Windows 7 need more than 2 Gb to run smoothly. My 5 year-old laptop runs Win7 fine with only 2 GB and the processor isn't even a dual-core.

If you need 4GB to run Windows, you may have to check what's running in the background before blaming Windows

[valentine39]

Sue 'em in small claims court. They stole from you afterall. And from me too! I have a legal OEM Vista 64 on my LapTop and bought a prerelease update of 7. I now find I cannot update at all. My Home Premium won't go to 7 Pro!! Now I'm trying to get my $$ back and that puts me in an endless circle of who can do it. All I really want is the machine to work properly with 7P. A clean instal requires the original program discs for all my programs. Not possible. Many came as downloads. Some licensed for one operating system on one computer with one activation code. The code won't work on or with a mew HDD or OS. Very anal but thats life. If I can't get my money back from MS I will get the CC Co. to refund it and let them hassle MS.

My last thought is, that even MS doesn't know all the ramifications of this Update process, or if they do then all this simmering is preplanned. Is our court of last resort truly a court? It should be if they planned it that way.

[NervClaX]

With all the parts you can upgrade and/or replace on a PC, what part of the machine qualifies as "the machine"?

I can replace any and all parts of an automobile. At what point does my car become a different car? When I replace the transmission?, the engine?, the frame?

[AppleSuxLeo]

When you replace major parts like CPU , you just call MSFT and tell them and they OK you and you are good to go.
I am still using XP disk that came with store-bought PC 5 yrs ago , and now built my own PC using same XP.
MSFT is very kind to upgraders. We spend a lot of money...and often. We like the latest stuff.

[AppleSuxLeo]

MSFT replaces the "hash" that was tied to your previous hardware configuration with a new "hash" and ties this new one to your product code.

[cbscowards]

ASL: Then you are a software pirate if you are running your OEM XP on a new PC that you built.. Did you tell MS that you were moving it to a completely different machine?

"We spend a lot of money...and often" Then why didn't you buy a legal version of XP for your new machine? According to the facts you gave us here, you bought a PC 5 years ago with XP preinstalled, and then moved it to another PC. How is MS benefitting from you?

[AppleSuxLeo]

No , that is not piracy. Microsoft allows for this , always has. One copy of OS tied to ONE machine.
Mac idiots like you who know nothing of the Windows world should not even comment.

[AppleSuxLeo]

People who live in that little Mac bubble amaze me some times.

[stickfu]

@as`l
you too can be amazed....
just get a mac

[cbscowards]

ASL: I've been using Windows since 3.0. I have personally owned machines using W95, W98, W98SE, ME (barf), NT4, 2000, and XP and WHS. I have used employers Machines with W3.0, and WFW3.1, and Server 2003 and 2008 in addition to the versions above. I personally own 6 XP machines that are used regularly by my family. I have about 6 more machine that are in a parts graveyard. So don't tell me that I don't know Windows. Read your OEM license. It's not transferable. If you call up MS and lie to them they are likely to let you activate it, but that doesn't mean you aren't cheating the system.

You're the one living in a bubble of dispensing FUD, you *******.

[Renegade Knight]

@cbscowards

Fair use isn't piracy. While MS would like to tell me that a full copy of 7 (not upgrade) is only useable on one computer they would be getting in the way of my fair use. It's reasonable to ask that it only be on one computer at a time. It's not reasonable for them to ask it to be on one computer, ever. When I throw away my 7 machine I may very well have an 8 machine where I want to run 7 in a virtual machine for some legacy software.

Right now I've got about 7 installs of Windows 98 on 3 machines including various VM's. It's all the same version, my goal isn't to "pirate" but to get ONE of the installs to work right. I'm having trouble with the VM and Direct X and each variation lets me experiment to figure out the solution. Then I can dump the hard drive wasting extra installs and stick with the one that works.

The most ironic thing MS has done is issue a DMCA takedown notice becase I was "violating" the EULA for selling an extra copy of Vista that I never installed and never clicked that i accepted the EULA on. MS lost my support for not working with me on that. I knew where they were coming from and why they made the error they did but they never worked with me in good faith. Of course MS drones aren't allowed to do anything but repeat the policy book so I can't blame them. I do blame the company for even creating a drone position.

[Random_Walk]

"Fair use isn't piracy."

Problem is, what makes you think it's fair use?

[cbscowards]

@Renegade Knight

Agreed. You can move a full (not OEM, not upgrade, not academic) version of Windows from one PC to another as many times as you want. You are supposed to format the hard drive of the existing machine as you move it to a new one. That's part of the privilege of buying the full version. You may not install it on multiple systems simultaneously.

I believe you can move a RETAIL upgrade version (not a free upgrade you get with a recently purchased Vista PC) the same way: I can install a retail W7 upgrade version onto an XP machine, and them move it to a different XP machine if I format the first one and follow the rules of which W7 version can upgrade which earlier version.

But the OEM version is tied to the PC on which it is initially installed. It may be upgraded to a retail upgrade version later, and the computer can be upgraded, but it may not be moved to a completely different system. This is part of the reason why the OEM versions are deeply discounted, as ASL is so busily advertising all over Cnet. (Except he keeps leaving out the part that they are OEM versions). The other reason they are cheaper is that they come without MS support. That becomes the responsibility of the OEM.

I feel your pain with the W98 issue. I'm in the process of resurrecting an old machine so I can test browser compatibility with that POS IE6, although I'm just going back to a fresh XP. It seems that you are in violation of the EULA because you are troubleshooting. MS probably wouldn't be too upset if your intention is to drop back to one working version. It used to be standard practice for many people to buy W98 and share it among their friends, neighbors & coworkers. That's what brought on the whole activation scheme to begin with.

These are MS rules. I didn't make them up. And like any laws out there, you can break them and perhaps not get caught. But for all the Windows fanbois, if you're not willing to pay for each copy of Windows you are using, then how good is it really? MS laid off thousands of people earlier this year. I'll bet that wouldn't have been necessary if all copies of Windows were paid for.

[dragonbite]

Why can't Microsoft just make it easy for us? ..." Home" and ..." Professional" and ..." Server" would suffice. Stop this bullpucky about "Basic" and "Home" and "Ultimate" and crap.

If they made it simpler, instead of trying to confuse people and eek every last cent out of people wittingly or not, they may find people more willing to spend their money upgrading. Especially since this is probably one of the better upgrades for people that are holding onto XP because of Vista, or who wants to upgrade from Vista!

They need to start working WITH their customers, not against them.

[rapier1]

I guess you missed all of the information about how there really are only 3 different versions.

[nafhan]

You only have three options unless you are:
-eligible for volume licensing (Enterprise edition)
-in an emerging market (Home Basic)
-or are large OEM (Starter)
Othewise, you can choose between Home Premium, Professional, and Ultimate. Most home users will be fine with Home Premium, and there's very few people who will need/want Ultimate. So, they've simplified from Vista where there were effectively four versions to choose from (Home Basic, Premium, Professional, and Ultimate).

[bkoster]

oh dragonbite I do so agree ! After their vista CRAP they do not deserve to have Customers

[Orion Blastar]

Well I want to know since I have Windows XP installed is if the Windows 7 upgrade will deactivate my XP license so I cannot switch back to XP and have it activate over the Internet. If the Windows 7 Pro upgrade doesn't run my software I need to work, then I need to switch back to XP.

Can I dual-boot XP and 7 at the same time? That would be great. Do I need another XP license or can I still use my old XP license?

How does the Windows 7 upgrade detect the previous Windows version during a clean install? It seems after wiping out the disk for the XP install, Windows 7 wouldn't be able to find the XP version to qualify for the upgrade.

An old trick on the Vista upgrade is to install a lower version of Vista without a CD-Key and then not activate it, and upgrade from that to the Vista version you are licensed for. It seems Microsoft sees a copy of Vista without a CD key that hasn't been used for 30 days yet as a valid OS from an upgrade, as it is a "trial". My system came with Vista but I downgraded to XP, can I install Vista and then upgrade from that? Would that stop a clean install?

[scratchpadat]

Answer to 3rd paragraph: It does not wipe out the disk. It actually keeps your previous Windows folder as WINDOWS.old whild doing the upgrade installation.

[techman21]

An upgrade license replaces your original license, so technically your copy of XP won't be licensed for use any more as long as you're using 7. It will not "deactivate" it - as in prevent you from installing and activating again.

You could dual boot IF you had the full (non-upgrade) version of WIndows 7 (legally).

[rationalreview]

Anything from old win or Winnt folders become windows.old, also any folders you have will not be touched unless they are in your "users" folder, ie. my docs, pics, vids, app data, etc.... If it is in the Users folder in Vista or Doc and Settings in XP they will be erased.

[Jeremy Chappell]

Legally if you have XP and a Windows 7 upgrade you're not allowed to dual-boot. I'm pretty sure you could abort the whole Windows 7 thing, remove it and put XP back on if you needed to. But you can't have Windows 7 AND Windows XP installed at the same time (even on the same machine) this includes using XP virtualised under Windows 7. That's the legal position.

I have no idea what the technical position is - I suspect the enforcement is less than 100%, but really you should be doing this (no matter how "fair" you think it is).

[jfitz23]

I (and I assume many others) need to do a clean install because we're running either XP-32 or Vista-32 and want to install Win7-64.

[Lerianis3]

Yep..... no way around that, and the disk when you first put it in to do a 'clean install' and tell it to boot from the disk will tell you if your system isn't 'compatible' with 64-bit. If it says it isn't..... don't argue with it, your system ISN'T COMPATIBLE WITH 64-BIT, PERIOD!

[Jeremy Chappell]

I think legally that's fine. However I think there is a technical hurdle. I do know how to manipulate the registry to solve this problem - but I don't think I'm allowed to tell you what it is. I think your best bet it to talk to Microsoft direct to get this solved.

However, if you're talking about Vista-32, then you should be able to buy media from Microsoft (and this is just media) and use that to install Vista-64 (the license you have covers both) then upgrade that. Now how you get the media is slightly complicated (yeah, it would be) if the machine is an "OEM" then you go back to the OEM for it. There is a small charge - but this is just media, you only need one disk, not one per PC each PC must have it's own license; this is enforced (I think you'll need one for each SKU - which is annoying). if the system is a "System Builder" (or the OEM no longer exists) you go to Microsoft - use the words "System Builder" or they can be amazingly thick. You want a Vista 32 to 64 version exchange media set. That should sort out the problem.

Sorry I can't be more helpful - but Microsoft are likely to be really annoyed with me if I say anymore.

[BoneheadBarbarian]

Wait, I bought I computer with a free upgrade to windows 7. The computer I was running had 32 bit vista but I decided I wanted 64 bit W7. So i did a clean install off an rtm edition i got off the web (because I am still waiting for the arrival of my upgrade disk). Does that mean I have broken the law? And if I had changed my vista install to 64 bit and then upgraded would it have been legal? If it would have then Microsoft really need to rethink their terms of use policy because that is ridiculous!

[Otto Holland]

No, you have broken no law. The 32 bit use the same key as the 64 bit AND if you are not sure, call Microsoft; even at 1 AM they'll help you. Make sure your computer is 64bit...that's all.

[Jeremy Chappell]

It's fine. Read the EULA it's in there. Talking to Microsoft isn't always the best policy - some of their staff would tell you that you have broken the law (and if you spoke to the same yahoo I did they'd email the EULA to you to prove it ... which is how I know it says the exact opposite).

[Mr. Dee]

Ina, you didn't explain how users running 64 bit versions of Windows Vista or vice versa would like upgrade to an alternate architecture can do so while staying in compliance? You can't launch setup for Windows 7 64 bit in 32 bit versions of Windows and if you boot off the disk, the only option is to format. How will detect that you are in compliance? Also how do I reinstall after crash with the upgrade disk? Is Microsoft expecting that I reinstall the qualifying version, activate it and do the upgrade again?

[Otto Holland]

People are getting over their head about this license thing. Microsoft is not a Gringe and they are not out to get ya!

Do a clean install is you are moving to 64bit and don't worry about it. The MS techs knows that and they are there to help you. Call them...you'll see that within a few minutes all your questions will be answered. Just have the original key that came with your PC ready...

[marcushh777]

I must agree with umbrae... who really cares? This "upgrade" is too expensive, in actual green dollars, in cents (um, sense), and in time... as in "what a waste of..."
My ubuntu spins circles around any version of windoze on the market... or on the black market, for that matter.
My mac mini spins circles around windoze 7... for the price of a very classy piece of state-of-the-art hardware I got a great OS, built-in iLife extras that make "life" fun... a full development environment,... a beautiful desktop, warranty and service... and a machine that doesn't go down for no-particular-reason... and is virtually virus proof, hack proof, etc.
Why in the world would I move to a windoze product?
Ballmer &company needs to get a clue...

[Warp09]

Curious why you bothered to read the article and leave a comment if you are so disinterested in Windows 7. Different strokes for different folks, the beauty of it is that people have a choice of what operating system they can run. I'm glad you aren't moving to a windows product. The money you are saving on free ubuntu allows you to afford your overpriced mac mini.

[Otto Holland]

Keep you DOZE to yourself, no one wants to know your garbage!

[rationalreview]

As long as you set your goals low, you'll keep achieving them with Ubuntu and OSX. Keep at it, you'll get there.

[Seaspray0]

@marcushh. Use whatever you want to use, we don't care. But you are the one that needs to get a clue. Your "windoze" comments show total disrespect to those of us who like windows. Would you like it if I refered to the mac as crapple and linux as linsux? Until you can at minimum pronounce product names properly, don't expect to see any respect.

[WintyB]

Bought the student upgrade download. No problems, using 7 and really enjoy the OS. Have to consider how to upgrade my parents PC, so probably going to dish out for the 3 pack upgrade. Concern is, since my father (67 years old) has been using XP and Vista will 7 be too different for him? Should I leave him be?

I think MS finally got it right with this operating system.

[Silver_Bullet]

I'm several years older than he is. No sweat with Windows 7.

[rationalreview]

Win7 is easier for a tech clueless wife, 5 and 3 year old, and 78 year old. In fact, getting around the stuff they used went from pretty easy to extremely simple. Win7 seems to focus on the ease of use which they've had to learn from OSX. You have to remember, OSX is like the Leapfrog handheld my kid uses versus windows xp. It doesn't do much, but a kid can get around it. Win7 puts a shiney easy to use interface on a deep and useful operating system. So to answer your question, by all means, get Win7 for your 67 year old father. Take time to show him how to use the Library and he will love it.

[murphymac]

How many families have THREE machines in the home that qualify for the upgrade as described? Not many. So why only sell the family pack for upgraders??
Target your customers as enemies, that's the MS way.

[jlhatch]

I believe we have 7 computers in the house that qualify. All 4 of us have desktop computers, and 3 of us have laptops we use when out and about. A three-pack doesn't seem like enough to me, but it's still cheaper than 3 single purchases. So far I've only upgraded my desktop, but I'm thinking seriously about buying 2 3-packs for the rest.

[cbscowards]

Anyone who's interested in the family pack upgrade should be aware of this statement from the MS web site: "The Windows 7 Family Pack will be available starting on October 22nd until supplies last here in the US and other select markets. "

It seems that they must be burned onto a special "family" DVD that is in short supply. So if you're planning to get it sooner might be better than later.

[Renegade Knight]

2 Macs, 4 Thinkpads, 1 Gateway, 1 Working Dell, 1 Compaqm 1 Broken Dell caught in the Dell "we don't honor warrantys policy"

7 could run on all but 2 of those. MS won't get a freaking dime for an upgrade because of how they treated me with Vista. Support quit trying to solve their problem with their OS. They issued a DMCA takedown notice on an auction selling my unused Vista upgrade.

7 will come on a new computer, and I'll turn that into a dual booting hackintosh.

[Random_Walk]

"MS won't get a freaking dime for an upgrade because of how they treated me with Vista. "

So you're going to pirate Windows 7 over hurt feelings?

Err, why not do something positive and just switch to another OS entirely?

Seriously, if I purchased a song that turned out to suck, I wouldn't immediately go pirate every song out there by that band to get even - I'd just stop listening to anything new that the band coughed up.

[ckh1272]

"by Random_Walk November 3, 2009 9:10 AM PST
"MS won't get a freaking dime for an upgrade because of how they treated me with Vista. "

So you're going to pirate Windows 7 over hurt feelings?"

@Random_Walk--Where did he say that he was going with a pirated Win 7? He stated that he would just buy another system with Win 7 already on it.

[prince_ar7]

The old folder of "windows" is saved as "windows.old" folder after upgrading.

Is it okay to delete this folder ( size ~ 15 GB)

[scratchpadat]

I have deleted the windows.old. OK so far.

[bowacl]

I picked my stuff out of it and deleted it also, it's mainly only to save your data, you can't use the programs etc. I ended up with 2 because I did the first beta then the RC. Really these are things you should of backed up prior to the install/upgrade which I do somewhat. The best part is I only install programs back as I use/need them so this weeds out the stuff sitting on the hard drive I don't use any more and was to lazy to delete.

[Fatesrider]

It would appear that the OEM license - which before couldn't be used as proof of owning a "licensed copy of Windows" to upgrade anything - now can be used if that OEM license came with the machine they're upgrading? Seems like a murky legal area still exists there as well.

Though, why anyone would want to pay to upgrade a properly functioning machine is beyond me. There's only one valid reason to upgrade a machine: If it can't do what you want it to do the way it is now. What makes the most financial sense is to wait until your computer is no longer doing what you need it to do then buy a new one with Windows 7 pre-installed. If you got a Vista machine with a free upgrade to Windows 7, then if you can do it yourself, go ahead and upgrade. If you have to pay someone else to do it, read up about the differences between Vista and 7 then think HARD about whether the benefits are worth the costs. If they are, go for it. If not, might want to wait a while until the finances straighten out or a greater need arises.

[Renegade Knight]

"There's only one valid reason to upgrade a machine: If it can't do what you want it to do the way it is now"

True. I'm getting into Virtual Machines for some legacy applications. Those appear to have better support under the newer OS's. However that means a newer computer with more RAM etc....

[mactripper]

The answer is to get yourself a decent Mac, Macbook Pro or the tower, then you can surf the internet in peace, stability and security. Install one of either XP, Vista, or Win7 in Bootcamp (free from Apple) that will allow you to boot into Windows to use any Win program at full potential. Keep Windows OFF THE INTERNET, except for updates and pre-screen all files using ClamXav in OS X before sending it over to the Windows side. (USB thumb drive works great). Also if you use a VM product like Fusion, you can run all these operating systems (and Ubuntu Linux too) all at the same time until your processor and graphics card cries out for mercy. Clone your OS X partition and Win partition (Bootcamp only) to a couple of external hard drives every now and then and enjoy a care free computing experience. Been malware free for over 16 years, one game disk virus pre-date the internet. That's it. Mac's are great!

[Grem135]

For the priice on your Mac tower, I could built 2 towers usiing High quality parts, 1 could be a hackintosh, the other a much better Win 7 machine ..... by the way, both would be identical except the OS

[Roy2115]

Check out this article...Windows 7 is more secure than Mac. Mac just doesn't have as many users as Windows, therefore much less effort is being put into attacking the Mac. If Apple is able to get the same user base as windows, they they will need to improve their OS.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2009/09/security-snow-leopard/

[Random_Walk]

"For the priice on your Mac tower, I could built 2 towers usiing High quality parts..."

...and do your own tech support, your own installs, and your own, well, you get the idea.

Now - how's Joe Sixpack gonna do that?

[celticbrewer]

Funny how mac users act like Scientologists or Drug Dealers. yeah, c'mon man, just try it! You'll love it. It's the best thing ever. One of us.. One of us...

Why not trott over to the Apple fanclub and leave the rest of us alone? I like Windows. It doesn't crash and I don't get viruses. It does exactly what I want and it does it well. Why the hell would I want to buy a Mac? If anything, I'd switch to Linux before ever considering a Mac. Hell, I'd give up computers all together and get a Droid before getting a Mac.

[Yelonde]

@celticbrewer

"Hell, I'd give up computers all together and get a Droid before getting a Mac."

What in the world made you hate macs that much? Personally, I am using windows 7 on my iMac, and I can play crysis at Very High for all options at 1440 x 1050 and still get 30+ FPS. I think macs are great machines. And, like many PC apologists would say, "A Mac is a PC", therefore, you should have no reason for hating macs. Thats of course, you don't like the free service that comes with buying one :)

[Roy2115]

I guess my biggest gripe with Microsoft is that I couldn't get Customer Support I needed when I needed it. My problem arose when setting up a second profile on my PC and switching admin rights from the original profile to the next. Windows wouldn't grant the "new" admin profile admin rights. So I switched admin rights back to the original profile, but I still have the same problem, getting an error message saying "you need administrator rights to ... "

So when I tried to get online customer support from Microsoft, the webpage that authenticates my version of windows does not load. So in order to get online support, I would have to pay $60. I am assuming that if I call customer support, I wouldn't have to pay, but come on...it should be that hard to use online support.

[One-Eared Gundark]

Yet another Mac fanboy chiming in on a Windows article. A couple questions:

1. Mac fanboys have so much time to read and comment on Windows articles because...
A. The software they want isn't available for Mac, leaving them lots of free time?
B. They are secretly using Windows on their Mac, and want to know how to upgrade?
C. They feel inadequate and are trying to build themselves up by tearing down others?
D. They are really Apple employees, trying to bring us "Windoze" users into the fold?

2. How come the worst offenders all have "mac" in their screen name?

Many people posting on this forum who use Macs are level-headed. Some even use Windows in addition to OS X. They know that the computer and OS is a tool. Use what works best FOR YOU. For me, it's been Windows. If something works good, I'll let people know. But I'm not going to try and force people into using my preferred OS by making them feel like they are second-class citizens. That's just childish.

Face it. Unless people have had a real bad experience with Windows, they are not likely to switch operating systems. People using software only available for Windows aren't likely to switch. Stop trying to convert people already.

It's getting kind of creepy.

[play7]

"For the priice on your Mac tower, I could built 2 towers usiing High quality parts..."

VEry true. and yes people can problem solve their own issues.......Why in the world pay that much money for a mac tower? For even less over all proformance?

[newmacguy]

By the middle of paragraph three I'm thinking about how simple it was to go from Leopard to Snow Leopard. If you find yourself tangled up in an upgrade, or figure you'll avoid it by buying a new machine with Windows 7 already installed, I encourage you to take a look at a Mac. I know they seem expensive compared to a PC, but unless you have some special need for a Windows machine, I believe you will find yourself very with a Mac in very short order.

[Grem135]

wasnt Snow Leopard basically a big upgrade from leopard using the same basic unix base minus of course PPC support. XP is a not the same as Vista and Win7 though I'm sure they could have made an "in place" upgrade. But I would rather take the time to do a clean install anyway to geet rid of all the junk I was to lazy to ...lol

[Roy2115]

Going from Leopard to Snow Leopard is like going from XP SP1 to XP SP2, which was free by the way. You had to pay $29.

[Yelonde]

Going from Vista to 7 is like going from XP SP1 to XP SP2, which was free by the way. You had to pay $200 for the ultimate version.

[Roy2115]

Windows 7 is a completely new OS, not like the minor upgrade that is Snow Leopard.

[gofalcons]

go to an apple thread troll

[AppleSuxLeo]

Fact : SL kernel does not run in 64 bit mode.

[Yelonde]

Fact: I am running the SL kernal in 64 bit mode right now.

[dennisl59]

Did an 'inplace' upgrade from vista home premium 64 bit to windows 7(same flavor)..Zero Problems, None, Zilch, Nada, Nothing. And for those that did? You probably had issues(and ignored the Windows Upgrade Advisor) before you attempted it in the first place, in my opinion. Have a Nice Day.

[celticbrewer]

Same. But I did a clean install just because that is my preference. Like you, zero problems. Smooth install of W7 HP 64. It took me longer to backup a few of my files to the NAS than to install the new OS. Activated my license and I was good to go.