Microsoft puts its 'signature' on PCs

The "Microsoft Signature" PCs that are being sold at Microsoft's retail and online stores contain a bunch of extra Windows Live software, but also feature something rarely found on a PC--a clean desktop.

(Credit: Microsoft)

Although Microsoft isn't making its own PCs, the software maker is taking an active role in customizing just what goes on the computers it sells through its online and retail stores.

In its new role as PC retailer, Microsoft is loading computers with what it's calling its Microsoft Signature experience--a collection of Microsoft products, including the complete Windows Live suite, Security Essentials antivirus product, Zune jukebox, and Bing 3D Maps software, as well as Adobe's Flash and Acrobat Reader products. Internet Explorer 8 is the browser, with Bing as its default search provider.

(Credit: Graphic by Ina Fried/CNET News)

The computers are being sold at Microsoft's two retail stores--the Scottsdale, Ariz., store that opened last week and the Mission Viejo, Calif., outlet that is opening later on Thursday. The software giant is also selling PCs throughout the U.S. via its online Microsoft Store.

The goal of the Signature effort is to give customers what Microsoft feels is the best software experience they can have on a PC.

"Signature gives them a PC that is ready to run," Microsoft retail unit chief technology strategist Kevin Eagan said in an interview. "We think we're really unlocking the potential of Windows 7."

Microsoft isn't completely deciding what goes on the system. Computer makers can also add software that takes advantage of particular hardware features, but it's not allowing any trialware or "crapware."

"Much like other retailers would define (what goes on their PCs), we do the same working closely with our (computer maker) partners," Eagan said.

As part of the in-store experience, Microsoft staffers will also help customers install other software they might want--even competitor's products, such as Apple's iTunes. They can also change their browser or default search provider before they leave the store, Eagan said.

"We want to give customers what they are asking for, so they leave store 100 percent satisfied," Eagan said.

Eagan said Microsoft is just taking advantage of the customization options that other retailers also have available to them and said the company doesn't anticipate any regulatory concerns.

"We're absolutely confident that what we've done is added another choice for customers," he said. "We think expanded choice is good for customers."

Those who already have a PC, but live near one of Microsoft's stores, can bring in their PC and have the Microsoft Security Essentials software added at no charge.

[Super2online]

I'm looking forward to seeing one of their stores in person as they begin to fan them out far and wide.

[Random_Walk]

I wonder what the price diff is going to be for what is essentially a bunch of free stuff?

[eadeguzman]

I think it's that "signature" system would be lower in price because it would be to Microsoft's benefit to do so... Less headache in customer support side while building a better brand.

[baconstang]

Making it easier to use out of the box is a good idea. <br />It's a step in the right direction. They certainly are taking a tip from Apple.

[Random_Walk]

Maybe, maybe not... we'll have to wait and see.

[voyager529]

@eadeguzman: the counterargument to that is the fact that OEMs get kickbacks for installing trialware and adding desktop icons to machines. So the cost may be higher because the unit isn't being subsidized by Symantec, Roxio, etc.

[Random_Walk]

Oh, boy do they ever. Get an eyeful of this: http://www.pcpro.co.uk/features/352927/the-crapware-con

[niko_osokin]

I still can't believe they didn't open the first in Redmond/Seattle. Way to show WA pride, guys.

[Jeremy Chappell]

Heh, this IS interesting, Microsoft recognising just how lousy the buying experience has become for PC buyers. Now what needs to happen is expand this to ALL PCs.<br /><br />The PC Fanboys can thank Apple for this - this is something Microsoft would NEVER have done on their own. This simple change is a huge step forward for PCs - at the moment far too few PCs, but a significant step never the less. If you're in the market of a computer you'd be well advised to trot off to the Microsoft store (but while you're there, nip next door and see if a Mac wouldn't serve you better - you never know, and it's not far).<br /><br />Me? Well I'm in the UK so I don't have the option, but even if I did, I\d still be in the Apple store (but hey, we're all different).<br /><br />Now my big question is, if you get a "signature" PC and you have a problem, who fields that? If the answer is "Microsoft" then we're really getting somewhere. They'll need to actually learn what customer service is (because last time I dealt with them they were "dumb as a rock") but if they can get some instruction from the Xbox team (who let's face it, get plenty of practice) then they'll be OK. Whatever it has to be better than HP.

[RainyTable]

"The PC Fanboys can thank Apple for this - this is something Microsoft would NEVER have done on their own"<br /><br />Yup, agreed; A free market usually does encourage development and consumer benefits... so why does Chairman Jobs fight tooth and nail against anyone applying the same approach to Mac hardware and software? Profit protection for one.

[cary1]

That's because Microsoft neither manufactures those PCs nor does it sell them, until now. They had no control over what goes in. But with their own retail stores, they can dictate their terms, just like Wal-Mart. This is a nice change. If they keep going on right track, it will be a huge hit.<br /><br />I am waiting for one to open in my city

[Random_Walk]

Sort of...<br /><br />There is one thing I noticed.<br /><br />Dell recently came out with their Windows 7 drivers, so I swapped out a few default ones yesterday for the Dell versions, thinking the things would be optimized for the laptop.<br /><br />Funny thing is, the "Experience Index" actually dropped from 4.5 to 3.9 after installing the (Intel) video driver from Dell.

[Random_Walk]

"But with their own retail stores, they can dictate their terms, just like Wal-Mart."<br /><br />...until the OEMs retaliate by expanding their (until now very limited) Linux efforts.

[rapier1]

Is it something they never would have done on their own? Maybe, maybe not. It's not like IBM, Dell and multiple other vendors haven't tried going this route before. In fact, it was commonly accepted that it was impossible to do this because of all the failures in the market before. Apple proved that wrong *but* Apple didn't have much of a presence otherwise.

[kojacked]

"...until the OEMs retaliate by expanding their (until now very limited) Linux efforts." <br /> <br />LOL! That's been tried before. Where did it get them? OEMs will have to serioulsy undercut the prices AND make the experience of an alternate OS so superior that it will get people to take a second look rather that go with what they know and trust. That's going to be pretty hard these days with as much of positive buzz as Windows 7 is getting.

[Random_Walk]

"LOL! That's been tried before. Where did it get them?"<br /><br />...lower licensing costs, for starters. A good glance at Microsoft's financial reports for Windows' income bears that assertion out. ;)<br /><br />Now, if Dell, HP, etc. get the feeling that Microsoft is going to cut them out entirely (or eat into their profits hard), then they will likely do a whole lot more than simply stick Ubuntu onto a couple of limited models and hide it on their websites. <br /><br />There will likely also be a whole lot less (if any) "Dell (or whoever) Recommends Windows (version)" blurbs loafing around their online stores and/or at places like Best Buy. One could also expect to see the OEMs getting serious about making the Linux desktop experience a lot better, perhaps even collaborating on it via a 3rd-party or consortium... they'd pretty much have to.<br /><br />During the transition, sure they'll still sell Windows boxen - just that it'll cost more to get one with Windows, and they'll likely give it the same treatment they gave Linux up to now - a lot of lip service but no real effort.<br /><br />==<br /><br />Overall, I can see Microsoft pulling a 'PlaysForSure' on the OEMs, thinking there's nothing the OEMs can really do about it. OTOH, I can see the OEMs retaliating hard, leaving Microsoft in a rather awkward position - especially in the Enterprise.

[b_baggins]

@rainyTable<br /><br />"Profit Protection."<br /><br />Spoken like a true, indoctrinated marxist. Your president would be proud.<br /><br />Profit is not evil.<br /><br />Apple's business model is selling a unified hardware/OS solution.<br /><br />Jobs is under no moral obligation to change his business model just because you want the operating system separate from the hardware.<br /><br />It is also highly ironic for you to essentially call Jobs a greedy $()*%&#38; when your whole antagonism toward him is based in the fact that you are a greedy little $(*%)&#38; who wants OS X without paying for a Mac to get it.

[AaronMK]

"OEMs will have to serioulsy undercut the prices AND make the experience of an alternate OS so superior that it will get people to take a second look rather that go with what they know and trust."<br /><br />You mean like Apple did with Unix? Well, at least on the OS side.

[cloudmatt]

lol maybe windows 7 really did listen. I said no more third party crap ware from hp/dell/etc. <br /><br />seriously though good move for MS. most users don't realize that their computer comes crippled with useless bloat and unwanted software. clean install systems will really help to show off what ms can do. I wonder if these MS branded systems come with just a straight install disk(shiny hologram goodness) for the os instead of some useless restore disk.

[AaronMK]

+1<br /><br />For a lot of my family, if Apple has something that is semi-reasonably priced for what they are looking for, I would tell them to go for it. Crap-ware, their not taking my advice to wipe the system and do a clean OS install, as soon as they get it, and it being a crapshot on whether it will actually come with a REAL copy of Windows for use in that procedure were the big reasons for this.<br /><br />I wish Microsoft would get touch on their vendors about this, and at least make including a retail copy of the OS DVD a condition of licensing.

[n3td3v]

I'm glad they are shipping Security Essentials in PC's, thats going to make such a stir up with Symantec and the other bloatware anti-virus vendors.

[Random_Walk]

...that stir may cause a lawsuit or two. <br /><br />Otherwise, yeah - Symantec can rot in Hell for all I care.

[Maclover1]

Good move in the right direction, but honestly why the Zune software. Most people dont own a Zune. Most own some form of iPod. So that will require itunes and you would end up with WM12, Zune and iTunes. Bloat.<br /><br />Also ditch that adobe reader for Foxit, even less bloat. Immediately remove IE8 and install Firefox.....um reverse that since you need IE to download FF with out using another computer.

[Seaspray0]

Those are your choices and they are personal. My selection of software differs from yours.

[Renegade Knight]

There was a time when iTunes was a good music player even if you didn't own an iPod.

[mrcockrell]

the Zune marketplace will allow them to download music and videos to their computer.. <br /> <br />iTunes is on just about every computer i see now days because apple bundled it with quicktime for a while to trick everyone into installing it <br /> <br />so why is it suprise you?

[rapier1]

The zune software is actually a great player. It's actually a more enjoyable experience than iTunes. Really. I didn't believe it either but I really found it to be true.

[DrtyDogg]

@Renegade: When? iTunes was the reason I never bought an iPod. I detested it from the start.

[Brent212]

I agree with you, DrtyDogg. Winamp's been out longer than itunes, and itunes has never held a candle to winamp, IMO. <br /><br />itunes, for me, was also the reason I held out so long on getting an ipod, until I discovered the plugin for winamp that allows me to transfer my mp3s to the ipod, AND have playlists put on there from my winamp smart views (which are much more useful for me than itunes' "smart playlists"). <br /><br />Now the only thing I hate about my ipod is the prehistoric UI. I just assumed that would be good, given everyone's obsession with these things.

[pentest]

Zune, Windows Live, Windows "security essentials" and IE 8 are all crapware.

[deniceels]

itunes is exactly why my iPod Touch in recent times frequently frozed up while playing on my laptop/macbook. can't they just do it without having to Sync everytime (i disabled sync always) i just do playback like SonyE, Nokia, Winamp, Jukebox MusicMatch? What's with bonjour anyway without it as 'optional install'? <br /> <br />Zune is at current in the US market, thus limited exposure. <br /> <br />I refused to use safari on my macbook for Opera, very unstable, and chunky for me. Even my HP uses Maxthon as FF, Chrome, Safari can't beat it for size, functionality (especially the split-screen).

[jaybee75]

The lack of crapware alone makes the Microsoft option desirable. Happy to get the stuff but give me a few cds or a dvd with the apps on them so the experience of removing them isnt painful &#38; frustrating.

[Vegaman_Dan]

The 'crapware' as you put it, is one way OEM's can lower the retail price of a product by selling desktop space to other companies to put their products on there. I agree, it's annoying and I don't like it, but it is a way to subsidize the products. <br /> <br />Some stores like Best Buy have their own suite of stuff they put on machines sold through the store.

[b_baggins]

Because, of course, all the stuff MS is putting on the machine instead is not crapware. Because, well, just because.

[AaronMK]

"Because, of course, all the stuff MS is putting on the machine instead is not crapware. Because, well, just because."<br /><br />Agreed, I don't want one set of crapware being replaced by another. At least this is easier to REALLY uninstall, and less invasive (does not run and hog your resources at startup, aside from Acrobat).<br /><br />"The 'crapware' as you put it, is one way OEM's can lower the retail price of a product by selling desktop space to other companies to put their products on there."<br /><br />I would like to know how much less my laptop cost because of the crapware. I have little acceptance of a company selling my desktop and its resources to people other than the potential owner of the product. It is naive to think that they see this as a way to lower the cost of their products instead of simply an additional revenue stream. In the process, they are giving Apple a lot of bait for their ads.

[pentest]

Zune, Windows Live, Windows "security essentials" and IE 8 are all crapware.

[thydavidcome]

@pentest<br />Zune player is a really easy and fast way to legally download movies and music, and does NOT slow down your PC. NOT CRAPWARE<br /><br />Windows Live includes easy to use (and vastly improved) versions of Windows Movie Maker and Windows Picture Viewer. Not to mention the email application leaves a light footprint and is compatible with all email accounts. NOT CRAPWARE<br /><br />Microsoft security essentials was rated one of the lightest and best antispyware/antivirus, with one of the highest detection rates and lowest amount of false alarms. To say it is crapware (when it only uses 4 mb ram) it idiotic to say the least.<br /><br />IE8. As much as I love Chrome, IE8 is decent and is a step in the right direction. It is intended for people who arn't good at computers because it provides everything they need at their fingertips (such as acellerators, 1 click email, etc). Its relatively fast and gets the job done. NOT CRAPWARE.

[smpimacG5]

Please.....yet another attempt of worthless MS trying to make people believe the junk they sell is even marginally good.<br /><br />Just like 7, MS stores will fail horribly....and YES US APPLE FANBOYS will be laughing hysterically when it certainly comes....History repeats itself again....Hmmm I recall a great Mac commercial on that point too...

[nelzp0929]

Oh ya, having your OS on almost 90% of all computers sold is such an epic FAIL.

[Static-X-Machina]

You mean the one where macs claim to not be personal computers? Oh wait there's a crap ton of them. Nevermiiiiind. <br />Oh um.... btw try just LOOKING at Bill Gates house. <br />Look at his bank roll while your at it. <br />I know he stepped down from MS to part time, but still his position holds as chairman. <br />Now.... excuse my ignorance but if the stuff from MS is junk... and if frikkin HUMUNGOUS HOUSE/MANOR/VILLAGE and many millions of dollars = fail.... what does no house and no company and living on the street with no money =? <br />You think about that for a second because your POV is not really making any sense to me.

[Jeremy Chappell]

Not everyone is going to want a Mac (though that 27" Core i7 iMac is freaking sweet) and a "bloatfree" PC is a damn fine thing for these people. Do I think they'd be happier with a Mac? Well mostly sure, (unless they live and die in some Windows app - or just want to play games) and I'd agree that most people should compare the two (with an eye on TCO not just purchase price).<br /><br />This is a damn good step for Microsoft, and I wonder just how shocked they were when they saw how horrible the buying experience was for PC buyers. I imagine that most Microsoft execs only see systems prepared by either Microsoft techs or a PC maker looking to impress and don't see the "we-absolutely-hate-you" bloated installs that OEMs inflict on their victims (buyers). If Microsoft have any sense at all this will be seen as a major problem, and hopefully fixed.<br /><br />But I think we Mac users don't need to worry, even if this is fixed, I'm sure Apple can continue to make a compelling case for the Mac. Microsoft doesn't need to fail for Apple to succeed (as the Mac has proven since 1984). For Mac users, Mac OS X has some serious chops, given the technologies lurking in Snow Leopard there are some killer applications taking shape for the Mac.

[Random_Walk]

"Oh um.... btw try just LOOKING at Bill Gates house.<br />Look at his bank roll while your at it. "<br /><br />So "crime pays"? <br /><br />Of course, if you;re talking money, compare how much the two companies have in their bank accounts. A company 1/10th the size of Microsoft actually has more cash on hand by quite a few billion dollars.

[rationalreview]

Static, did you just learn to talk. Congratulations, you articulate at the 3 year old level. Good for you.

[Renegade Knight]

Speaking of history. <br /> <br />There was a time when Apple dropped their software extras from Macs. The product line (Clarise?) failed and all these years later They now bundle some free software with Macs. Though I still can't see where in iWork you have a word processor.

[Random_Walk]

Claris. Died a long time ago, I believe.<br /><br />"Though I still can't see where in iWork you have a word processor."<br />You mean this one? http://www.apple.com/iwork/pages/

[Mystigo]

Claris had products that were cutting edge at the time. I loved Claris CAD. They eventually dropped all the products except one, and renamed themselves after it: Filemaker.

[pentest]

Yup, 7 maybe better than Vista, but that is hardly a high bar.

[gofalcons]

*** is history repeating, apple has been at like a 10% share for decades...

[biggstuu]

I wonder what Best Buy and other "partners" have to say about this? I thought crapware helped PC keep pc prices down? Not that Im advocating it at all. Its just sad that the MS takes so much "inspiration" from the Apple store. It's literally like the bizzaro Apple store, down to the tshirts. (chicks in the Apple store are hotter tho!) I would have expected more from MS.

[Jeremy Chappell]

However it happens, it's good for customers of Microsoft. I don't know why you "expected more" from Microsoft, this is their modus operandi. I'd expect clone stores, just like Apple's with no Macs. I did chuckle about the Zune software being included (they just can't help themselves can they?) but really this is still a huge step in the right direction.<br /><br />Apple aren't about to stand still, I'm sure they are already planning their response. If I were a betting man I'd suggest they'll get some of those "signature" PCs and plonk them next to similar Macs can compare them side-by-side, I mean can you imagine an HP next to an iMac - yeah exactly. Would this work? I think it would, and it would drive Microsoft absolutely nuts!

[WileySkier]

Jeremy, no doubt the new iMac is very pretty, but I believe that new HP All-In-One (one example) has some great features and I'll bet it's cheaper and has more inputs. It sounds like you'd def choose the mac but what about everyone else, especially those on a budget? It would be interesting to see that happen and know the results.<br /><br />Actually, we already have that scenario at Best Buy. Can anyone who works at Best Buy chime in and comment?

[Seaspray0]

They used to be side by side in the stores. I haven't been down the computer isles in a couple of months now.

[megustansalchichas]

well if crapware helps keep the prices down, i guess people's time is not considered valuable -given all the **** that has to be removed and the way it gums up the system, i'd rather have a preconfigured crapware free machine at a 5% premium (though I don't know how they're pricing them at the MS stores)

[solitare_pax]

Of course, without those special sponsors of crapware, Microsoft will either loose money on this, or raise the prices of their signature PCs to be more in line with Mac prices. <br /> <br />Luckily, there are plenty of PC vendors out there - for now. <br /> <br />Next step: Watch Microsoft aquire them all and make their hardware as propietary as the Mac is.

[Random_Walk]

"Of course, without those special sponsors of crapware, Microsoft will either loose money on this, or raise the prices of their signature PCs to be more in line with Mac prices. "<br /><br />If the specs match, I suspect the prices will already be comparable (that is, exact or better spec-for-spec, with no corner-cutting or cheap plastic cases, etc).<br /><br />"Next step: Watch Microsoft aquire them all and make their hardware as propietary as the Mac is."<br /><br />They'd only need to acquire one. <br /><br />OTOH, the rest of 'em would likely begin a crash program of pouring R&#38;D into building out Linux packages, and start to champion that instead of Windows (if they aren't already doing that now, especially in light of Microsoft's expanded/apparent efforts to get into the hardware biz).

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Random_Walk: <br /> <br />Linux desktops and laptops have been tried multiple times by retailers. It just doesn't work. The market isn't there yet. It's very difficult for someplace like Best Buy to sell a Linux box and then have to tell that happy buyer that no, none of software they see in the store runs on it without an emulator and configuration settings customized. Also that no, there is no product support for it. <br /> <br />Doesn't sound like a very positive buying experience for a computer neophyte or family looking for a new computer. They'd be better off with a Mac or WIndows system where the support and software are known. <br /> <br />That's just the sad fact of life.

[Random_Walk]

"Linux desktops and laptops have been tried multiple times by retailers."<br /><br />...as leverage to get Microsoft to drop licensing prices - which did work. You cannot call the OEM efforts to date 'trying', since:<br /><br />* most Dell/HP/Whatever Linux offerings were often hidden on the websites.<br />* there were a very limited number of models and configurations available<br />* the prices weren't enough to reflect the cost of the OS (perceived or otherwise)<br />* The OEM product pages were still plastered with "(OEM) Recommends Windows (version)"<br /><br />"It's very difficult for someplace like Best Buy to sell a Linux box and then have to tell that happy buyer that no, none of software they see in the store runs on it without an emulator and configuration settings customized"<br /><br />If the app makers are seeing massive efforts by the OEMs to move to Linux (esp. if there's a takeover attempt of the whole OEM industry by Microsoft), I'm very sure they would step up their efforts appropriately, so that by the time those computers hit the store shelves, the software would either be there, or would be very close behind.<br /><br />I'm also very sure that the OEMs would do their part to take care of any configurations internally. <br /><br />Let me spell this out in no uncertain terms: If Microsoft starts making/selling their own computers (desktops, laptops, etc), the OEMs will have a limited number of choices:<br /><br />* suck it up and slowly die (shareholders would revolt)<br />* get bought/merged/whatever until Microsoft buys the remains (see above)<br />* Build an alternate OS from scratch and market that (Apple could pull it off. HP and/or Dell cannot)<br />* Build on an existing alternate OS and turn it into something that consumers would want to get their hands on.<br /><br />There's really only one viable option, and that "existing alternate OS" is going to be *nix-based: Linux (e.g. Ubuntu, Android, Moblin, etc), FreeBSD, Darwin (OSX' core), Solaris, or suchlike. There are simply no other viable alternatives out there.

[cbscowards]

@Random_Walk:<br />Yes, I agree 100%. My experience with Linux (Ubuntu) is that it is a bit too rough around the edges for the average consumer. When something goes wrong, there's nobody to turn to for support other than the internet. I've gotten very valuable help from the internet, but it took some digging and time. I even saw a lot of patient dialogs with total noobs who really had no troubleshooting skills.<br /><br />But with a healthy dose of cash, I think Linux could be polished up fairly quickly to be a viable alternative to desktop Windows. If HP, Dell, and Lenovo are facing doom with a failing MS relationship, they could very well be willing to fund such an effort. Once I got Ubuntu running, I was pretty happy with it.

[pentest]

"It's very difficult for someplace like Best Buy to sell a Linux box and then have to tell that happy buyer that no, none of software they see in the store runs on it without an emulator and configuration settings customized"<br /><br />Hardly, just tell them the truth: 90% of what they will ever used is already installed and 99.9% of the rest is one click away.

[pentest]

"When something goes wrong, there's nobody to turn to for support other than the internet. "<br /><br />And that differs from a retail copy of Windows? Or a crappy OEM box 6-12 months after you buy it?

[Static-X-Machina]

Oh wow this is REAL new for MS. <br />Excuse my ignorance but doesn't EVERY OEM COPY OF WINDOWS INSTALLED FRESH COME WITHOUT CRAPWARE? <br />No? <br />Ok my bad. <br />I thought for sure I had seen this before where when I installed XP sp3 no crapware was installed. <br />My mistake.

[rationalreview]

However you need to justify it, go with it, breath, in.....and....out.....Gooooood...

[Renegade Knight]

Not completely. Both Windows and OS X have various SPAM links and plugs for other products built into the OS.

[Random_Walk]

Really? I haven't seen any real ones in OSX - just a small MobileMe thingy that was as easily removed as dragging the icon to the trash can. Where are they, perhaps?

[baconstang]

Safari comes with some IT bookmarks buried in there. That's all I've seen. Oh, and a 30 day trial of Office for Mac.... even though it came with iWork.

[Robosxi]

Well its great that they don't install everyone elses crapware, but, they put on EVERYTHING that Microsoft offers for free whether I want it or not. So, I gues it is 3rd party crapware free, but most definetly NOT Microsoft crapware free!

[Random_Walk]

The crapware they mention int he article is also free for the download. They're just presenting it as some sort of value-added bonus thing.<br /><br />Not sure if the diff in price would be more valuable than the bandwidth one would normally use in downloading the things... and that's where I believe Microsoft is counting on consumer ignorance. <br /><br />Otherwise, why bother? A typical user, if sufficiently clued-in, would realize very quickly that it's not worth the added price, and may decide to get just a few of the bits they want for free online (courtesy of Microsoft), or all of them, or just the one that caught his or her eye.

[dwlebo]

THIS is a development worth watching. While Windows has been saddled with providing seamless support for literally thousands of configurations and iterations of hardware offerings from a virtually limitless line of hardware vendors, Apple has had the luxury of controlling the OS experience from the very start - want the Apple OS? -&gt; buy one of 3 (or so) hardware designs where the biggest difference is the amount of RAM or monitor display size. I have always contended that if MS would follow the Apple model, they could tremendously reduce their support burden and provide a far superior user experience.

[pentest]

LInux supports a much larger hardware base than Windows...

[thydavidcome]

@pentest<br /><br />You are nothing short of delusional

[nulumu]

Windows 7 so far is the best MS OS. extremely reliable. 6 months without a blue screen. The reason why I choose Windows 7 over Mac OS is "whatever Mac OS can do, Windows can do too and whatever Windows can do, Mac OS can't do" there are many software simply don't support Mac OS. <br />Mac OS start up may be 30 seconds faster than MS OS, I don't really care about that, fancy looking interface? I already used to MS OS, I don't care either, I can buy 2 nice Windows PCs with the price of 1 Mac. <br />My son's Mac book Pro 17" aluminum is a very good looking PC. that about it. too heavy for school and too small for home video. he setup his 22" monitor for video and 17" Mac book for Skype.he installed Windows for his Black berry application. by the way, he got the video issue with his Mac.<br />My wife's iphone need to restart everyday or the call will drop in the first few seconds.<br />I was a Mac user (apple II, apple IIE) before but now I am a Windows user, <br />Sorry about my English.

[pentest]

6 months without a blue screen?<br /><br />wow, call me when it can run 3+ years without a reboot.

[gofalcons]

whatever pen, i repair pc's and mac's and we get kernal panic calls and hardware failures all the time, no system is bulletproof

[rwm72]

"We want to give customers what they are asking for, so they leave store 100 percent satisfied," Eagan said ... Cool, are they selling Macs?! ... sorry, couldn't resist.<br /><br />Seriously though, this could actually work. ... "but it's not allowing any trialware or "crapware." That's the key isn't it. However replacing 3rd party crapware with MS signature crapware is the danger. And let's be honest, that's exactly what will happen. Not all of it's crapware, but the PCs sold will be a bloated advertisement for everything MS. And if consumers are ignorant of what competitors are offering anyway, or are just happy to place blind faith in MS salespeople/gurus, then there is a definite market of opportunity there.<br />If there is continued tuition and support from the MS store in a, dare I say, "Apple-like" manner, then this could be a viable option for a segment of the market. But really it comes down to Windows 7 not sucking that allows this. The other MS signature products though, well, at least they are supported.

[dwlebo]

In all candor, are you serious? Take your quote "but the PCs sold will be a bloated advertisement for everything MS." and give careful consideration to the environment of a neighborhood Apple store. It is true MS is learning from Apple, but now that they are starting to emulate Apple - it's just a "bloated advertisement"??? I admit I'm obviously too middle aged and too professional to truly appreciate what appears to be a forced "hippness" in the Apple store, right down to the salespeople in their jeans and 22 pieces of flair on their artificially distressed T's. Looks like Apple might have a hard time explaining the success and reliability of a Signature MS computer in a cute little 30 second ad on TV - aimed at insulting me, yet again.

[jessiethe3rd]

With some of the comments here I wonder if anyone has ever used Windows 7 with the "full experience"... it is actually a thing of beauty. The antivirus software works seemlessly... the Mail app works fantastic... everything is just flawless - it's quite a nice experience. Liken it to Apple's experience except there are a lot more freebees in there than Apple has and of course many things are not in there that Apple may have. <br /> <br />The nice thing is Microsoft doesn't do trailware currently with the exception of Office 2007 which of course has a 60-90 day trailware on it... that in itself is very long for a typical vendor. <br /> <br />Regardless - try it before you knock it.

[WileySkier]

rwm72 - "However replacing 3rd party crapware with MS signature crapware is the danger"<br /><br />The article said the Windows store would help consumers install (or uninstall I imagine) anything they wanted, including competitor's software.

[Random_Walk]

". Looks like Apple might have a hard time explaining the success and reliability of a Signature MS computer in a cute little 30 second ad on TV"<br /><br />That would assume that there is any appreciable success in Microsoft's retail endeavor. We have yet to see that.

[Random_Walk]

"With some of the comments here I wonder if anyone has ever used Windows 7 with the "full experience"... it is actually a thing of beauty"<br /><br />I do, and well... Meh. It still looks, smells, and tastes like Vista. The only diff is that I didn't have to ditch that stupid Sidebar after install, the QuickLaunch taskbar disappeared, and UAC was easier to shut off. Otherwise, it still requires more horsepower to run than OSX Snow Leopard would for the same visual results.

[Dalkorian]

by jessiethe3rd October 29, 2009 6:47 AM PDT<br />Regardless - try it before you knock it.<br /><br />------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Most people don't need to eat a full plate of excrement to know they won't like the experience, yet that's the first thing out of M$ apologists mouths - don't knock it unless you've tried it.<br /><br />Ugh, no thanks. You can have mine.

[chabig83]

I don't think Adobe makes a product called "Acrobat Reader".

[cloudmatt]

I forget when they took acrobat off of the name but yah it's just called reader now

[Random_Walk]

Acrobat is the "pro" paid-for version that can edit and save PDF files. Adobe Reader is the bug-laden crapware PDF reader.

[agriffith96]

If they would only put the lock down on Windows Mobile and do the same thing.

[highway61--2008]

I think these stores will be successful. Who else would you want to buy a computer from than the company that makes the OS? All PC hardware is pretty much the same these days so the only real variable is the OS. Having a local MS shop to go gripe to would be great. My 1st, and only, Zune recently became unusable. It sure would have been great to have someplace nearby to take it instead of having to mail it away.

[pentest]

It will flop. Microsoft is going against Best Buy, Fry's, Wal Mart, New Egg, etc.<br /><br />Microsoft has a history of failure when the playing field is even and/or when they are trying to catch up.

[thydavidcome]

@ pentest<br /><br />Delusional again? Look at the Xbox yea it was slow to start out and way behind the competition, now look at the Xbox 360, in 2nd place with a 7 million lead over the PlayStation Brand.<br /><br />I guess you call that a flop too.<br /><br />Oh and Windows was released after Mac, so it was behind the competition and look how it soared.

[Random_Walk]

"Look at the Xbox yea it was slow to start out and way behind the competition, now look at the Xbox 360, in 2nd place with a 7 million lead over the PlayStation Brand."<br /><br />...and nearly ten years later, the XBox is still in a massive $billions-deep financial hole, losing in sales to the other two competitors now, and with little-to-no hope of getting a ROI within the next decade (let alone this one). <br /><br />The Zune is in an even worse shape...<br /><br /> "Pink" (Microsoft's attempt as an iPhone clone) is still mostly vapor, with even its launch date in jeopardy.<br /><br />The only hardware Microsoft has made any real long-term profit on involves re-branding Logitech gear (mice, keyboards), and selling those.<br /><br />I'm somehow not seeing Microsoft trying to make/sell their own computers. It wouldn't fly, and the prices would have to meet or be bigger than Apple's just to turn a profit and avoid being lumped in with HP, Dell, etc.

[DaleTurley]

"The PC Fanboys can thank Apple for this" <br /> <br />What a load of crap!! They can thank Vista's failure for this....

[pentest]

The failure that is Vista does not lead to MS stores or this joke of an idea.

[hobbsax1]

Everyone is griping on the Zune software, yet the Zune 4.0 software is one of the most amazing pieces of software Microsoft has ever produced. I have a Zune from every generation and I also have an iPhone. The Zune software seems like something that Apple would create while iTunes is clunky (IMO).<br /><br />I also have both a Mac (with Snow Leopard) and multiple PCs (all with Win7 now). The Mac is a fun computer and the iLife apps are good but if all someone is going to do is surf the web and read email then a PC can do it at about 1/3 the cost of a Mac (just purchased a Refurb Dell Laptop with 15.6", 250GB, 3GB, Duo Core for around $350, cheapest Mac is $999 with a 13.3" screen???)<br /><br />Now I like my Mac but I bought it solely for iPhone development (and btw, Objective-C is painful to write apps in compared to other language on PC, C#, Java, etc). Unless you have extra $$$ lying around or have real use for something in the ILife suite (ie. GarageBand, iMovie is nice) then I cannot figure why you would pay the significant extra for a Mac.<br /><br />For the price of the cheapest Mac laptop you could go buy a better spec'd PC AND Adobe Photoshop.

[pentest]

MS has never produced amazing software. Yes, sometimes it is good, even solid, but never amazing so what is your basis for comparison?

[thydavidcome]

Pentest = delusional jealous fanboy.

[joe_remo]

Customization is good. And it's good that the media is starting to mention it more. But companies, like Microsoft, still don't have a clue. Why can't companies let the customers choose their own customizations.

[pentest]

Since when has MS ever let its customers use its software as they wanted? MS puts a definite ceiling on functionality, Apple does to a certain extent, and in OSS there is no ceiling.<br /><br />It is always MS telling people what they need. Sadly, there are too many sheep that just follow them.

[deniceels]

Apple does that to some extent? It took them huge ages to come out with MMS capability on their iPhones, a 2MPX camera when other mobile companies are already on 5 and some 12MPX camera with opticalzoom, web browsing for a longer time, touchscreen capability (Palm), Wifi, 3G, SD card slot, and, what's with only 2USB port anyway? <br /> <br />why are their macbook comes a paltry &lt;320GB HDD and cost so much for a 500GB (when I can get 1 at USD200 alone or even a 2B DDR2 stick at USD45)? Why do apple then have to bundle iLife, iWorks, iChat in their new system, along with Safari and iTunes when MS gets lots of flaks for doing like-wise (WMP, IE)? No, both does it, not to a certain extent, but in similar degree, except 1 has a huge presence world-wide market and the other has smaller market. <br /> <br />Both companies allow customers to customise, it's call installing/uninstalling. It's how much customisation one wants and asks for it. They make it easier come bundling without having the users to go out searching for more stuffs if what is included is sufficient for them, saves both time and effort (subjective). It's just too many sheeps following both camps and start 'bahh-ing' each other and forget that their own camp do also are at fault for similar actions (in-group bias).