Windows 7 born from Vista's frustrations
NEW YORK--If consumers like the new Windows 7 operating system, they'll have the much-maligned Windows Vista to thank.
In part, that's because Windows 7 actually builds on the under-the-hood changes that came with Vista. But, it also turns out that the vast headaches created by Vista were just what the PC industry needed to improve their cooperation.
With consumers lukewarm to Vista and many businesses shunning it entirely, both Microsoft and the computer makers realized that the standard way of business just wasn't cutting it, particularly with Apple coming on strong.
Windows 7's 'XP Mode' is among the features that evolved from close communications between Redmond and the PC makers.
(Credit: Microsoft)Redmond, in particular, was humbled by the response to Vista. When it came time to planning the next version, newly installed Windows development chief Steven Sinofsky took the company's earliest ideas and met with PC makers.
That marked a huge change from past releases, where, as some PC makers described it, Microsoft would just develop windows in secret and then "throw it over the wall."
"Until Vista, Microsoft was fully thinking on their own and implementing their own ideas and then releasing it," said Gianpiero Morbello, a vice president for Taiwanese PC maker Acer.
This time around, though, Microsoft shared its earliest plans, sought input, and held regular meetings with the PC makers. In addition, it dedicated engineering teams to work with each of the biggest computer makers to help them work through any issues specific to their designs.
The result, which goes on sale Thursday, is Windows 7. Although its changes are more modest than those made in Windows Vista, the product has been both on time and well received by testers and reviewers alike. Close cooperation with the PC makers has resulted in a product that adds few blockbuster features but is roundly praised for making everyday computing tasks simpler and more elegant.
Many of the new features, such as support for iPhone-style touch interfaces, have been heavily influenced by the work with PC manufacturers. Among the first things Sinofsky did upon taking the reins of Windows development in 2006 was to study what happened to Windows when the bits left Redmond and made their way onto new PCs.
When finally asked for their early input, computer makers were not shy with their ideas for how Microsoft could do better. Indeed, the computer makers' fingerprints can be found all over the product from the way it supports touch input to which features are included in which versions of the product.
"I think I was hated in Redmond," said Sony senior manager Xavier Lauwaert. "I just spoke out every time."
Among the changes that came directly from the computer makers was the about-face that Microsoft did with regards to Windows 7 Starter--the entry-level version of the product aimed primarily at Netbooks. Initially, Microsoft wanted to impose a limit of three open applications at a time, in part to distinguish the version from higher-end editions.
PC makers complained loudly that the restriction was too onerous--and might tempt consumers to stick with the older and less secure Windows XP. Microsoft eventually relented and, though it has maintained other limitations, Netbooks with Windows 7 Starter can run as many applications as their limited memory will allow.
Another feature that grew out of discussions with computer makers and business customers is the addition of an "XP Mode"--an option that allows Windows 7 users to run a free, virtualized copy of Windows XP to run older applications that aren't compatible with newer operating systems. In some cases, one incompatible program was keeping businesses from even considering a move off Windows XP.
Phil Osako, director of product marketing for Toshiba's PC unit, said there may be some businesses that never even use the virtualization option, but will be more comfortable moving by knowing that they have the virtualization option to fall back to should they encounter problems.
Tami Reller, the VP in charge of the business side of Windows, said that Microsoft's now-bendable ear really is a different way of doing business. "We have become very good listeners over the past several years," Reller said. "We are imperfect human beings, but we have become very good listeners."
Phil McKinney, CTO of Hewlett-Packard's PC unit, filled in for his boss at one of Microsoft's regular meetings with computer makers in 2007.
"I walked out of there going 'This is a different Microsoft. This is a different relationship," he said.
McKinney noted that Microsoft's initial overtures to the computer makers were met with a fair bit of skepticism. "Is this legit or is this just trying to appease frustration," McKinney recalls thinking. "It quickly proved out that Microsoft was serious."
That said, McKinney noted that neither HP nor the other PC makers got exactly what they wanted. "It wasn't like Microsoft just sat there and took up every piece of feedback," he said. "There was give and take."
Microsoft also had harsh messages for the PC companies. The vast amounts of preinstalled software that they were shipping on consumer machines, so-called "crapware" were slowing down systems and hurting the PC's image.
The computer makers and Microsoft began looking at each piece of software, whether it came from the PC manufacturers or a third party, and measuring its impact on the system. Those that were bogging things down were told to fix their software or else got pulled from new PCs.
The result is that Windows 7, in many cases, can boot up more quickly and go in and out of sleep in a matter of seconds. Consumers will also notice they get systems that are a lot less cluttered, in some cases with nothing more than a recycle bin on their desktop when they first boot their PC.
Another big influence was Apple's recent success and, in particular, the benefits it was getting by linking its software and hardware.
"I think there was a recognition by PC (makers) and Microsoft that, for the best experience, the software and the hardware really need to work hand and hand," Osako said.
At its best, McKinney said that things felt more like a hardware and software division working together than it did a collaboration between different companies.
There are still examples of Microsoft and PC makers each deciding they can do things better. Even though Microsoft has a new taskbar, for example, Dell is carrying over the dock it built to help launch Vista applications. The result is that some PCs still feature multiple interfaces, each trying to accomplish a similar tasik.
Microsoft, too, still has room for improvement, PC makers said. Acer's Morbello noted that Microsoft is trying to transform itself from a nearly "obsolete" engineering-driven approach that adds features simply because they are possible to one that focuses on what customers actually want.
"These changes are a transformation of the company," Morbello said.
The task is critical for Microsoft, which depends on Windows for a huge chunk of both sales and profits. At the high end, it faces never-ending challenges from Apple, which now has significantly more resources to invest in the Mac. At the low-end, meanwhile, Google is preparing its Chrome OS, which makes the case that people really just need a fast and efficient browsing experience to handle most computing tasks.
For her part, Reller promised that Microsoft plans to continue seeking PC makers' input as it builds the successor to Windows 7.
"This is the new Windows," Reller said.
During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft. E-mail Ina. 
Why should Microsoft Windows 7 be any different?
Well maybe I'm remembering Mac OS X through rose colour spectacles, but I don't remember the problems of which you speak. Now early versions of Mac OS X were a little on the sluggish side (OK, they are slower than that) but stability seemed to be "baked in" as soon as OS X came out.
Now why do we expect more of Microsoft? Well think about how many releases of Mac OS X there have been between Windows releases. Now I'm not going to get into "it's a service pack" jibes here. For me the "service pack" that Microsoft delivered to Windows XP Tablet Edition was a huge improvement (I'm thinking it was SP1... ) and I'm more than allow that one. Microsoft's release schedule has been - let's just say "slower" than Apple's and leave it at that.
So yeah, Microsoft need to pick up the pace (Windows 7's early release is a good sign they can do it). What's probably needed are less ambitious plans, rather something they can actually deliver (because "Longhorn" was spectacular compared to what was actually delivered - and much of that project remains where Microsoft kicked it: in the long grass). Apple have shown they can deliver product, again and again. The have steadily improved Mac OS X, and the Mac hardware. THIS is what we want from Microsoft, fewer "flights of fancy" that they fail to deliver, more solid improvement over time.
While we're at it - lose the damn SKUs
Windows 7 got it right the first time. As to what nsteblay is mentioning..... it's most likely driver issues, so go online and look for the new drivers. Also, ATI has been testing with Windows 7 for a long while now.... you should NOT be having problems with the ATI drivers unless you have an old version. Go on their website and see if there is an updated version.
Windows 7 IS a walk in the park. I'm more thinking that your experiences are not the 'mean' for the average user, and no.... I am not a paid reviewer.
Driver update needed.
Which model is it? They should all be able to use the latest ones.
But since it has been released today, you can check out the drivers, they should be up.
Dunno about you, but I used 10.3 for five years straight and enjoyed doing so. No bumps, bruises, or untoward troubles.
Why would any Mac user connect a NTFS volume directly to a Mac (USB whatever).
http://windows7news.com/2009/06/30/finding-files-faster-with-windows-7-search/
Just open the start menu, and type your search query where it says : "Search programs and files" . If the results are not readily available, you can click on the "See more search results", where you get a normal explorer window, with a search box on the top right. Depending on the folder you have chosen ,you can search different locations. You can either do custom searches, where you can select a buch of folders to search at a time.
Now XP Mode sounds slow right? We've all seen older Macs running Windows and that was pretty much unusable. Well this might look like that from "three feet back" but actually it's achieved quite differently. I suspect that "XP Mode" is actually "paravirtualised" (See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paravirtualization) as Microsoft supply the "XP" that it runs - you can't use your "plain vanilla" XP. So XP has been modified (slightly) to speed things up (the Linux boys have been doing this for years). Now XP mode is slower than running XP "naked" on the system, and you should make sure your machine has enough RAM (a shortage of RAM will drastically slow XP Mode) and a pretty fast processor (though chances are if your PC even support this, then you're in good shape). Also worth remembering that the "XP" needs all the usual support (Anti-Virus et al) as well as Windows 7. So XP Mode really is a "last resort" - if you run an application most of the time that doesn't run without this you're probably better off sticking to "naked" XP and not moving to Windows 7.
I believe it is, but XP Mode does require Intel VT (or similar AMD) extensions, which, if they are present in the chip, will probably have to be turned on in the BIOS.
I wonder how long Vista will be supported.
Sorry, this is Beyond Binary. You want Apple.
Both Windows 7 and Snow Leopard are worthwhile updates for those who actually look into them instead of just making assumptions.
It's a service pack. 7 was inspired by what was wrong with Vista. So starting with Vista they tweaked it nad came out with 7. Now why they didn't just roll out SP3 for Vista an turn it itno 7 is beyond me.
Besides it's all in the perception and us customers seeing that MicroSoft jumped to create 7 becasue Vista was broken do not see 7 as anything but a fix for Vist and that makes it a service pack. Not a great leap forward.
WIndows 7 is a really good Vista service pack. And why do I need to 'look under the hood' to find special features. Isn't that why I would be paying more money to replace Vista?
It has fully reworked for 64-bit under the hood with new processor technologies, it has several new functions, it has...
...sorry, I was thinking of OSX 10.6.
You're right, it's a quicker version of Vista with a couple of new functions - that's a service pack. In fact, didn't XP SP1 give more?
McD
1) Remove DRM embedded in the OS
2) Get rid of their stupid spyware validation (that should be no part of an OS)
3) Release only one OS and not parse it out with different capability levels with different prices.
4) Get rid of the 8 bit technology (registry). That should have been removed over 10 years ago.
5) Both Apple and MS need to embrace ZFS
6) Get rid of the memory limitation (Win7 has a 792GB limit, Linux and Apple 32TB). Yes I know no one can afford that much memory, but why is the limit there?
" I'll state up front I know nothing about Windows but i'll pretend to be nice so you think I'm valid
1) I'm personally blind to how apple runs my life through drm and can't accept it's need to exist
2) I believe that the web is a nice place filled with nice people gumdrops and unicorns why should my os protect me
3) one size should fit all just like spandex
4) I'm bitter because I still can't run 64 bit unless i force my os to do such so i'll argue about moot points
5) *brilliant moment of clarity*
6) why do i have to be limited to a ram amount that i couldn't even come close to utilizing for at least 15 years"
those in glass houses good sir.
Actually that's a good list. DRM is here to stay. Apple jumped on that bandwagon. It's now built into the lisence to use Tech. Think BluRay. I wish it weren't infesting my system and I may start using Virtual Machines to play games since I can copy my limited install from one machine to another and not lose my install. Plus the DRM malware most PC Games come with will be limited to the Virtual Machine. Of course all those VM's bring up the memory limitation.
Win3.1 - Good
Win95 - Not Good
Win98 - Better
WinME - Garbage
WinXP - Great (especially after SP1)
Vista - Stinking cesspool
Win7 - Excellent (my personal experience with it so far)
This means the version after 7 will challenge the laws of physics when it comes to how badly something can suck, after which Microsoft will release another superb OS that people who succumbed to the version in between will be falling all over themselves to buy.
Now, whether this pattern is by accident or design, only Microsoft knows for sure...
That is, in fact, true. I have no doubt in my mind that while some versions of Windows genuinely did have their flaws, bugs, and other difficulties, at least some small percentage of windows bashing comes from people running it on hardware that's either too old, or too poorly manufactured to have ever worked correctly to begin with. Software is only ever part of the equation.
NT- game changer
2000- flawless victory
2003- like a rock
2008- jury is still out
BUT... The change from Win 3.1 to Win95 was the biggest jump on that list. The rest of the new OS's on the list seem like tiny upgrades in comparison. I'm wondering when the next OS change that was as big as Win 3.1 to Win95 will come.
Interesting question. The main reasons the leap from 3.1 to 95 was so big was because it went from a 16-bit to 32-bit OS, finally taking advantage of the 32-bit CPUs everyone was running by then...and it was the first windows you could really play games on that weren't Myst.
These days, most people are running 64-bit CPUs but the OS still hasn't caught up entirely, or at least Microsoft hasn't made the commitment. I think the next big leap will be when they get up the courage to say they're dumping 323-bit and releasing a 64-bit exclusive OS. That will be the next big leap I think because it will force a huge section of users who are currently content with 32-bit to upgrade. They're just going to have to come up with some major selling points to make that happen.
Win2000 was released simultaneously with WinME and was really marketed more towards businesses as a successor to WinNT. Sure it had features that consumers could use, but Microsoft's angle was Win2000 for business, WinME for home users, so that's why I left it out.
Windows 7 is Windows Vista 2.0.....Working on a college network and support 3000 student computers....VISTA has been a headache, and the students have said that VISTA sucks and wish they had their old computer with XP on it. I have a feeling that Windows 7 will be the same for students....wishing they had something better...like 2k or XP.
Windows 7 is Windows Vista 2.0.....Working on a college network and support 3000 student computers....VISTA has been a headache, and the students have said that VISTA sucks and wish they had their old computer with XP on it. I have a feeling that Windows 7 will be the same for students....wishing they had something better...like 2k or XP.
Windows 7 is what should have been released when Vista was released, but for some reason Microsoft had to force the release date on it which made it suck. Reminds me of WIndows ME....yeah, Windows ME.
If PCMover can figure out how to upgrade XP to 7 with a $30 program, Microsoft could have done the same for free. There's no reason for this decision that I can see.
When I tried the 7 beta I lost a lot of installed software and work just to be a lab rat.
Sure it does far less than your average Macintosh does straight out-of-the-box.
And over time it will likely slow to a crawl like all versions of Windows do.
And you will have to buy new versions of virus scan and back up software.
And it will only be available on sticker plastered - butt ugly - plastic PC notebooks.
And people will still hate the control panel because its a verbose abomination to modern GUI's.
And it still doesn't come with good backup software, or virtual desktops, like the Mac.
And people will discover that touch screens aren't ergonomic, and that they have greasy fingers.
...
I can think of more but I have to get back to work.
Congrats Microsoft! Enjoy the limelight for people will soon see Windows 7 for what it truly is....
Windows.
Moving down your list. Slow to a crawl. Good point.
Stickers can be taken off that glowing Apple logo is like a gaudy tatoo.
And people will discover that touchscreens are a great supliment to the larger issue of I/O and that they have grease fingers. Apple will one day figure out touchscreens...oh wait they did on one product. Too bad they haven't on the rest.
That marked a huge change from past releases, where, as some PC makers described it, Microsoft would just develop windows in secret and then "throw it over the wall."
"Until Vista, Microsoft was fully thinking on their own and implementing their own ideas and then releasing it," said Gianpiero Morbello, a vice president for Taiwanese PC maker Acer.
This time around, though, Microsoft shared its earliest plans, sought input, and held regular meetings with the PC makers. In addition, it dedicated engineering teams to work with each of the biggest computer makers to help them work through any issues specific to their designs..."
The big question is: "Did the dudes from the from the Campus at Redmond sit down with the "international bankers" also (like they did this time with PC Makers) to know what some "international bankers" wish the Operating System to do for them; and, not what the dudes from the Campus at Redmond think that they need from an Operation System. And, it is left to be seem just how much discussion there really was.
And, Code-Base OS/2 (Windows) will always be Code-Base OS/2 (Windows).
"Long Lives OS/2 Warp"!
"Live Long And Prosper"!
Commander_Spock.
Windows 7 Vodka and the Microsoft Hangover
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2354446,00.asp
Oct. 22, 2009: A day of global mourning
Do you feel it in the air? That heaviness and oppression? The smell of sulfur? Yes, dear readers, the Beast of Redmond is unleashing yet another tangled mess of hell-spawned code into the world. We know it is evil. You know it. I know it. But millions do not. Millions, in fact, will race out to obtain this evil, and will pay for the privilege of making their horrible lives just a tiny bit more horrible. I weep for those people. I pray for their souls. I just woke up from a terrible dream, one in which I'm hanging from a cross and Bill Gates is on the cross next to me. I tell him I know why he's here, but why am I? He says, Because you copied all my good ideas. That's when I woke up -- screaming.
This happens to me every time they roll out a new version of Windows. It can't be helped. I cannot even get out of bed this morning. Breezeann just came in and asked me if I want a smoothie. I told her maybe later. For now I'm just lying here, staring up at the ceiling. No doubt it will be all over the news. Every station. Every newspaper. Every blog. Good grief.
--LOL
All ya had to do "The_happy_switcher" was to "JUST ADD WARP" and you would have jumped out of bed "Boldly Gone At Warp Speed"!
Anyway; "Live Long And Prosper"!
Some people in MS realize that many homes now have multiple PCs -- the Windows Home Server team. One of the features they advertise is the ability to access any PC in your LAN from the internet. Of course this feature in their HOME server only works with PRO PCs.
I see that W7 still has this same limitation. So MS is not listening to all of their customers -- this issue was raised repeatedly though the WHS product feedback. The team there replied that their hands were tied; it's a Windows product decision.
My Ubuntu box runs version 8.04, and I still haven't upgraded it -- I skipped 8.10 and 9.04, even though both upgrades were free.
My Mac runs Leopard, and I'm not considering the upgrade to Snow Leopard -- even though it costs only $29.
Windows 7 is cool, but can cost hundreds of dollars. I suppose that most people will not upgrade.
- by conix67 October 27, 2009 9:46 PM PDT
- Problem with Windows 7? Cost and GUI change. Often people overlook the GUI aspect of Vista, which is what many did not like about. Microsoft GUI design is such a disjoint effort, they don't realize what brings "productivity" up.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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Showing 1 of 2 pages (64 Comments)Windows 7 is fine if you're just beginning to use Windows. If you've been using XP for many years, and still need to deal with machines running XP, you'll find tons of annoyances around GUI features. Things may have changed since RC release, but I recall struggling through the whole day trying to google for things I couldn't find right away. This is where MacOS is strong. Their basic UI design hasn't changed. What works for everyone have no reason to change. Windows 7 UI design is based on opinions of "UI experts", not users.. go figure
Cost - with a few hundred dollars more, you can purchase a brand new system with OS. There's absolutely nothing more the new OS brings to average users, except a little better performance, security and stability, those that I would consider bug fix.
The way things operate under XP is almost etched into my brain. Now with Windows 7 I need to struggle everyday if I switch over to Windows 7. Couple that with all software updates necessary to run existing office/development software running smoothly, overall cost is quite high if you're upgrading.
I want XP GUI /w Windows 7 performance/stability. Probably would make sense for new systems, but hardly worth it as an upgrade to XP..