Microsoft's Bach on Zune, Natal, and Windows Mobile

REDMOND, Wash.--Microsoft has long talked about a vision in which people can buy content like movies just once, and then watch them on a variety of devices. That vision will finally start to become a reality this fall, Microsoft's entertainment unit president told CNET News on Thursday.

The company's Entertainment and Devices unit president Robbie Bach said there won't be one seminal moment when users magically get the ability to take purchased content everywhere. But, starting later this year, some of that notion will start to take hold.

Bach

"I think you are going to see that steadily happen," Bach said in an interview. "It's not going to be a cut-over date...What it is more going to be is a steady pace. You already see us make some things available in multiple places. You will see more of that this fall. You will see more of that next year."

Partly in anticipation of that, Microsoft is rebranding the movie and TV show store on its Xbox 360 to use the same Zune brand as it uses with its PC-based music and movie service. Over time, Microsoft wants Zune content to also show up on mobile phones.

There are two pieces to delivering on that vision: one is the technology, and the other is getting the content owners to offer the needed licensing. In general, it is the latter that is the harder, Bach said.

"All of the things about what you can buy and what you can buy where have less to do with technology and more to do with rights negotiations," Bach said. "We'll steadily make progress on that. It's generally in the best interest of content providers and it's certainly in the best interest of consumers."

On the Windows Mobile business, Bach acknowledged that Microsoft has seen its rivals move at a faster pace.

"If your point is we haven't advanced Windows Mobile as fast as we like, I think the answer is that's true," Bach said. "You are going to see that change."

He noted that Microsoft has shifted a lot of new talent into that part of the business. "We've made a lot of changes on the team in the last 12 months and that is starting to bear fruit."

However, Bach continued to hold off on providing any details on when to expect the version of Windows Mobile beyond the interim version 6.5 update due out on devices later this year.

"If your point is we haven't advanced Windows Mobile as fast as we like, I think the answer is that's true...You are going to see that change."

--Robbie Bach, Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices unit president

"My view on these topics is 'talk is cheap'," he said. "The next thing we are going to show people is Windows Mobile 6.5. There's plenty of innovation in the pipeline."

At one point Windows Mobile 7 was expected early this year, but the product has fallen way behind schedule and is now expected some time next year.

Bach, who demonstrated the company's Project Natal motion-sensing technology for a crowd of financial analysts Thursday, said the technology will help the Xbox better appeal to casual gamers and people who don't even think of themselves as gamers. It will also appeal to the hard-core gamer crowd, he said.

"Even the folks who are hard core Halo or Splinter Cell players, they are also going to want to play Natal games," he said.

The company, which first announced that Natal effort at this year's E3 gaming event, has said Natal will be available as an add-on to the Xbox 360 console. However, it hasn't said when it will be available.

"I'm not planning on being any more specific today," he said.

One thing that will be available this fall is the Zune HD, Microsoft's would-be rival to the iPod Touch. Although I had gotten a brief peek at the product in May, I didn't really get to check out the browser. I played with an updated build of the product on Thursday and was pleasantly surprised to see the browser has the kind of pinch zooming that one finds on the iPhone or in Windows 7. On the down side, I didn't see anything to indicate it will have serious gaming abilities.

As part of my chat with Bach, I did a video interview, which I have embedded below.

[gertruded]

This is so wonderful. I am now going to really love all the DRM. It is so great that I will be able to spend more money with Microsoft..<br /><br />I am so happy that all this will be in the best interests of the content owners. I can't wait.

[empirestatebuddy]

I think his argument is that DRM is the problem, because the media companies make more money if we're forced to buy various versions of the same product (i.e. movie, song, tv show). It's the reason I've held off on trying to integrate TV and computer--there's just not a lot of incentive. However, if I could buy an HD movie from the XBox store or iTunes, and also watch it on my computer or phone or media player, then THAT would be awesome.

[sting7k]

Yes because you can do so much with movies and TV shows you get from iTunes and their DRM.

[MaLvaDo39]

iTunes is DRM free already

[Vegaman_Dan]

@MaLvaDo39: <br /> <br />"iTunes is DRM free already " <br /> <br />Some portions are, some are not. That's somewhat the point that the story is making. The idea of being able to play the content on any device, which is a problem currently on most services including, yes, Apple.

[ca5ter]

I dance down the stairs with waving arm pit hairs!

[baconstang]

I think 'ca5ter' has the best idea of dealing with the DRM scourge.

[monkeyfun14]

I love how all the trolls pull up this DRM argument when Zune marketplace elminated drm before iTunes did. Lmfao

[wanorris]

Other than a few songs still under negotiation, the only DRMed music on Zune is on Zune Pass -- the optional ability to subscribe to their whole music library without actually buying the tracks. This is a feature iTunes lacks entirely, so if you don't like it, pretend it doesn't exist. <br /> <br />Personally, I think the ability to buy a song or a digital movie download once and watch it on an XBox, a Zune, a PC, and a Windows Mobile phone would be a huge step -- though it would be an even bigger step if you could substitute in an iPod, an Android phone, a Linux machine, etc. Mix and match is the ideal scenario. Still, it would be a really nice start.

[Boomstickedition]

itunes isn't 100% DRM free, tv shows and movies still have it. It is only the music that has gone drm free.

[aka_tripleB]

@MaLvaDo39 <br />Apple's, like most other music stores', music is DRM-free, but the videos are still a DRM nightmare.

[empirestatebuddy]

I'd definitely like to see more integration between TV and computer. I'm surprised it's taking so long, but I suspect it's because the media companies make so much money on DVD sales. If, suddenly, consumers could download a movie via XBox or Zune store or iTunes, and play it on ALL of their devices, that would probably devastate DVD sales (and their profits). Bach pretty much said as much. <br /> <br />As for XBox, Zune and Windows Mobile... there's a lot of potential there, but Microsoft is generally so slow in getting things to market and integrating its products. I mean, seriously, why has it taken so long to combine the XBox and Zune stores? It's just common sense to me. Consumers like "one-stop shopping," which is one reason iTunes has been so successful--movies, music, tv shows... they're all in one place. <br /> <br />There also needs to be a Zune phone. I've owned a couple of Zunes and, personally, I liked them better than my iPods--the user interface was simply prettier and better. The only reason I abandoned them was because the first incarnation of the Zune 2.0 desktop software was a disaster and not ready for prime-time. I've heard it's improved significantly since then, but I won't even consider going back until my iPods break or die. <br /> <br />Right now, I own a BlackBerry, but would be interested in a WinMobile phone (just because it'd probably sync better with the other MS products I own, like Outlook and Office); however, I prefer to buy products from American companies whenever possible, and most of the WinMobile phones are foreign-owned. (And, yes, I know that BlackBerry is owned by RIM, a Canadian company, but... eh, same difference. Besides, it's not a hard-and-fast rule. Just a preference). I'd be very interested in a Zune phone though--I just hope it also sports a physical keyboard. It's why I chose the BlackBerry over the iPhone.

[Splashes]

There already is a Zune phone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRKIDdIaFyE

[sting7k]

"Microsoft has long talked about a vision in which people can buy content like movies just once, and then watch them on a variety of devices. That vision will finally start to become a reality this fall..."<br /><br />Wow, it's about time Microsoft. What have you guys been doing the past 4 years? Apple has iTunes, iPod/iPhone, and AppleTV. Microsoft has even more...Windows, Zune/WMP, Zune/WinMo Phones, and the Xbox 360 is far more capable than the AppleTV. Microsoft you should be leading this category already. Get on the ball.

[NPGMBR]

Ummmm.....Its not that Microsoft doesn't have competitors to those products i.e.: Zune Marketplace, Zune and Windows Media Center. Microsoft only has to integrate these products to be more successful.

[YankeePoodle]

anything that involves windows media player is a problem because the EU wants some more money to fund during their recession and their usual step would be slap microsoft with another 1billion fine.

[t8]

@ YankeePoodle<br /><br />You are obviously not aware of a law that disallows bundling from a Monopoly in order to gain another monopoly.<br /><br />Normally what happens when you break the law, is you get a fine or some kind of sentence. This is done in order to discourage people from breaking the law.<br /><br />Microsoft just needs to comply in order to stop the fines. Sometimes it is in Microsoft's interest to continue to break the law because it gains them more than what they lose in fines. But the EU has been harsh and Microsoft seems to be complying now. <br /><br />So the EU's strategy seems to be working whereas the US Justice Dept mostly failed when it came to dealing with the convicted monopolist.

[C0mmanderB0nd]

The reason Microsoft is "slower" to react is the politics of Microsoft, there are too many little camps/divisions that don't seem to play well together. <br /> <br />Sure the same Microsoft points are used by the Zune marketplace and the xbox 360 marketplace but it seems like a no brainer these should be one marketplace. Also forcing people to buy points overcomplicates the process but MS politics force these as a de facto standard that clouds both marketplaces. <br /> <br />And for the record I can already watch movies on my TV, computer and phone thanks to "Digital Copy" which I use with iTunes, or I just rip my older DVD's to my PC and can watch them all 3 places as well.

[Random_Walk]

"That vision will finally start to become a reality this fall"<br /><br />Err, I can do that right now (rip DVD, park on media box in living room, park on computer, park on laptop, convert and park on wife's iPod...) <br /><br />Who needs Microsoft (or anyone for that matter) to promise to do that for me at some hazy future time (with a metric shedload of resource-sucking DRM, I suspect)?

[ckurowic]

Good point. The people who really want to do this already do! I use handbrake personally, with an old Mac mini G4 with a 1TB HD as my media server.

[monkeyfun14]

@Random_Walk<br /><br />Microsoft was one of the first to give the option to buy drm free...<br /><br />With Zune Marketplace the only DRM is the subscription if you buy the songs and videos separately its drm free they've been doing this before iTunes.

[Random_Walk]

"Microsoft was one of the first to give the option to buy drm free..." <br /> <br />Prove it. (before you try, google for allofmp3.com, prvide a date for Jobs' open letter to the music industry, et al. ;) ). <br /> <br />"With Zune Marketplace the only DRM" <br /> <br />Google for 'Three Days Three Plays Zune'... is that still in place? How about the fact that you can only use one Zune on one computer, period?

[scbajmr]

@Random_Walk<br /><br /><br />In April, 2007 Apple did announce DRM free music, but only for EMI. They did not go full DRM free however until January of 2009. Here are the press releases:<br /><br /><br />http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2009/01/06itunes.html<br />http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2007/04/02itunes.html<br /><br />in October, 2007 Zune started going MP3. So, technically Apple was first to offer DRM free content, however they did not fully commit to it till this year. Zune has been DRM free on most of their catalog for almost two years. <br /><br />With regards to your other points, the 3 days/plays doesn't add DRM to a file, it's simple a timer on the player. However, you can take that file off and play it normally, provided it's MP3 or some other DRM free format. <br /><br />With regards to your last statement being your can only use one zune per one computer, I think you mean iPods. I can connect my Zune to any computer that has Zune software as well as connect multiple zunes to the same computer. There is no limitations other than I have to connect as a guest on other computers. In Guest mode, I can manually sync my zune to that library as well as copy music from my Zune to that library. There are absolutely no restrictions with regards to the content itself. Next argument?

[monkeyfun14]

@Random_Walk<br /><br />What are you talking about one computer?<br /><br />I have my zune tracks on 3 different systems.

[Random_Walk]

@scbajmr: <br /> <br />Thanks much for proving most of my points (the last bit I didn't know about, though I suspect that DRM is in play there as well, given the "Guest" status). <br /> <br />BTW: "There are absolutely no restrictions with regards to the content itself" <br /> <br />...unless you want to move them all off your Zune and onto a non-zune playing device or app. Then you have the ZunePass DRM kicking in.

[monkeyfun14]

@Random_Walk <br /> <br />I have drm free tracks from Zune Marketplace that I have burned to CD's and on other non zune mp3 players what are you getting at. <br /> <br />Funny that you act like you know what your talking about when yo don't even own one.

[santuccie]

@monkeyfun14:<br /><br /><br /><br />'Funny that you act like you know what your talking about'<br /><br />>>>>He does that a lot. He pretends to know something about security, yet I've had to explain to him two or three times now that Charlie Miller, Dino Dai Zovi, and Nils infiltrated the Mac simply by having their assistants visit an infected Web page (drive-by download). He keeps talking about Charlie Miller sitting right in front of the target machine, plugging in his flashdrive and sudoing (LOL). What kind of contest is that? You can install ANYTHING locally.<br />[CNET editor's note: Personal attack deleted.]

[DrtyDogg]

You can use Zune Pass tracks on 3 computers and 3 zunes, it is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about. <br /> <br />Purchased Zune music are mp3s. Use as you would like. I don't even own a Zune and have bought from the Zune Marketplace load them on my WHS and share them to every computer in the house, that's Windows, Ubuntu and OS X, XBOX, and stream to the Wii, as well as copy to my mp3 players and phones or stream over 3G to my phones. It is nice when you can do what you like with your purchases <br /> <br />Steve Jobs open letter to get fanboys sympathetic doesn't mean squat. Apple had the power to go DRM free before the letter, and it still took them 2 years to get there. Try not to choke on the kool-aid. <br /> <br />As for the rest, see above.

[scbajmr]

@Random_Walk<br /><br />"...unless you want to move them all off your Zune and onto a non-zune playing device or app. Then you have the ZunePass DRM kicking in."<br /><br />How does that apply to what I was talking about? I don't use DRM music, I use MP3 (some of which I have bought from the ZuneStore) and those tracks work just as well on my iPhone as they do on my Zune. And for the record, and DRM'd tracks bought from iTunes locks you into an iPod, so again I don't get what your point is.

[X-C3PO]

My stupid Zune still cannot show the Asian characters, A department without vision what we can expect.

[cosuna]

When will buy once, play anywhere happen?<br /><br />Zune...<br /><br />When will Natal work as expected?<br /><br />Zune...<br /><br />When will businesses running XP upgrade to Windows 7?<br /><br />Zune...<br /><br />When will Bing overtake Google?<br /><br />Zune...<br /><br />I guess Microsoft has found the perfect branding scheme. <br /><br />We, then should expect the following products comming:<br /><br />Windows Server 200...Zune (pronounced two-thou-zune) <br /><br />Windows Mobile 200...Zune. (based on Windows 7 and running on ARM)<br /><br />Visual Studio 200...Zune (with .net framework 360)<br /><br />SQL Server 200...Zune (with Visual Transact-SQL)<br /><br />:-P

[Get_a_life_Leo]

He's right talk is cheap. The problem is that Microsoft has dropped the ball so many times in the integration of devices that who has any confidence that this leviathan of a company has any DNA remaining that could result in a coherent, intelligent and intuitive approach to this problem. The missteps would have bankrupted any normal company. What is left is branding covering a hotch-potch of messy wires and connections under a shiny cover (pretty much describes Windows 7 too.....).<br /><br />If it wasn't for the inertia associated with the installed base, Microsoft would be in deep do-doo.<br /><br />But tell us more about ZuneHD. That bit was semi-interesting.

[ntflavio06]

Well, what can one say when my Microslop is a purely bureaucratic organization that operates more like the government and runs it's business a rubber stamp. Surely Micropost might be a better name for its new posting. They kind of run like a post office...you know, you never know when to expect delivery. But one thing they have kept flawless until know, and it's track record for vaporware. Just keep it coming Ballmer. And personally, I used to hate Gates, but I now love the guy, compared to the baffoon running Microslop...just a used car sales person running technology company...good pick Bill.

[technewsjunkie]

They're playing catch up/Me too. <br /> <br />Yawn.

[CDubber]

Glad to see them scrambling with Windows Mobile now that Apple, Palm and Google have made them completely irrelevant. Classic Microsoft: reactive not proactive. Can't wait to see Windows Mobile 7, which I suspect will look suspiciously like a blend between iPhone and Pre.<br /><br />Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic? Yep.

[dylerl]

Ha this is funny. I have been able to do this on my Iphone, Apple TV, laptop, and almost any device in my home for at least 2 years now. Happy to see Microsoft is still the laggard in the tech industry and that is the exact reason they cannot last like this and are slowly losing massive market share in their main product category now called windows, which is a joke now. These Microsoft people are insane and do not get a thing anymore. Wake up to reality and realize you are about 3 years behind Apple in innovation and there is no way they can catch up at this point. Maybe Microsoft should realize that this has nothing to do with the recession but more to do with the lack of leadership at Microsoft since Bill Gates jumped ship, Steve Ballmer is a joke.

[CrashPad63]

You sir are full if s h i t. Ive had my media center going for 4 years now, that is a Windows box. Apple on the other hand can only wish for this much.

[RMarch]

Oh please. Apple TV is a toy. Windows Media Center has been around since 2004 and is a serious application that can cater to high end home entertainment systems. MS had the MC extenders since 2005. Zune Marketplace will be offering instant on 1080p contnent streaming which can play on the PC / MC Extender / Xbox Dash / Zune. Lets see the lowly Apple TV try that one on for size.

[ballmerisanape]

CrashPad63 ...What??? Ever heard of "Front Row"???<br /><br />I don't have a computer hooked up to a TV yet.. but my 24inch iMac has been sufficient. This is what it can do:<br /><br />Stream my iTunes library to my wireless speakers.. which I can control... from anywhere on my network.. with my iPod. <br /><br />Play the same movies/music on my iPod or computer..and if I had a MacMini+TV set-up.. on my TV. <br /><br />With "Front Row" I can rent or buy movies from the iTunes store, or view any movie that is located on a computer on my network. I can also watch movies full screen from Netflix.<br /><br />Not too bad... but more integration is needed (Apple TV). I'm not sure what Apple TV adds to that though..

[DrtyDogg]

I've heard of front row it came out well after Media Center, and is crippled when you compare the two.

[gprovida]

This is the same Microsoft who dumped Play For Sure [and their partners hardware and online music stores] for their own Zunes. Does the irony seem deep enough here, or do we need to talk about not on MacOS not on Linux when they had the opportunities?

[CrashPad63]

The likes of sansa, or maybe the Enemic Sony? pssh these platforms where going no where. MS is at least running with what they know best. The Zune software is premier in the business, and the hardware is second to none as well.

[professionaladventurer]

Welcome to the party M$, we have bee here all night doing that and we are just about done. Come back to tomorrows party when we have a new theme, but try to not be as late this time and you will have more fun and make more money, maybe you won't have to "rebrand" again.

[anonymuos]

Let's see, what the Zune still lacks compared to the iPod: <br />- Video playlists!! ZOMG <br />- Show song lyrics with autoscroll <br />- Volume normalization and loudness equalization <br />- Text search for music on the device <br />- Adjustible playback speed while maintaining pitch <br />- Multiple quick playlists and sync quick playlists to PC <br />- Use as flash drive/storage <br />- Audio recorder (microphone and line in) and recording FM radio <br />- Podcasts and audiobooks separate from music <br />- Customizable frequency-based equalizer <br />- Delete music from device without PC <br />- Sleep timer, alarm clock, clock, stop watch, calendar, contacts <br />- Skip/fast forward/reverse and changing volume while browsing media <br />- Repeat by single song instead <br />- Shuffle by album <br />- Choose music for picture slideshows <br />- Choice over syncing music, or only video or only pictures etc <br />- FLAC support <br /> <br />Looks like the Zune HD won't be adding anything from this at all. Microsoft, better get a decent music player out before venturing into touch and mobile internet browsing.

[godlyb]

Are you sure that Zune HD doesn't have all of the above?<br /><br />Anyways, who really wants FLAC on a PMP/DAP. . .only people who have practically no music so they can fit it all on.

[mmmmac]

Leviathan, just about right.<br /><br />The real reality distortion field is in Redmond.