Some Vista users say they're getting the Ultimate shaft
Microsoft promised that by purchasing the pricey Ultimate edition of Vista users would get all kinds of extras.
However, for many, those extras turned out to be little more than a few screensavers and a poker game, prompting some significant grousing.
Now, that frustration has turned to anger after Microsoft offered its pre-order program for Windows 7. Through July 11, Microsoft is offering a steep discount for those moving to cheaper versions of Windows 7, but nothing for those who want to stay on Ultimate. Under the terms of Microsoft's discount pre-order program, users can buy an upgrade to Windows 7 Home Premium or Professional at roughly half the list price, but the Ultimate version is offered at the full $219 price.
Among the versions of Windows Vista Ultimate that Microsoft sold was this limited-edition package signed by Bill Gates.
(Credit: Amazon.com)John Dabarno, a purchaser from Montreal, said that Microsoft is alienating exactly the wrong crowd. Dabarno notes that he is the person that friends and family turn to for computer advice. Indeed he has already pre-ordered Windows 7 copies to update his wife's desktop and laptop, but feels stuck on what to do with his Vista Ultimate machine.
"It would just be nice to have someone like Microsoft to say we know we did you wrong, here is a freebie on us, or let the Vista Ultimate users get some type of heavily discounted price on it," Dabarno said. "I think they would gain a lot of respect from all of their users with an offering like this, after Vista."
Lindsey Mundy, a corporate IT pro in Denver said that, as a consumer, she was particularly irked by Microsoft's actions with regard to Vista Ultimate.
"Vista Ultimate owners have already been ripped off once in paying for basically worthless 'Extras,'" she said. Now to rub salt in the wound, MS is leaving them out...for some reason best only known to them, when offering a reasonable upgrade price for Windows 7."
Some are taking the attitude of "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me" and going with the pre-order and just downgrading to Windows 7 Pro or Home Premium. That's doable, but those who go that route will need to do a clean installation of their operating system--a process that involves backing up data and then reinstalling applications.
Among those leaning that way is Steven Wilczynski of Chicago.
"When I bought my PC about 18 months ago it came with a free upgrade to Vista Ultimate," he said in an e-mail. "I don't think it would be worthwhile to spend $219 in October to upgrade to Windows 7 Ultimate."
Others are still trying to figure out what to do.
"I have two copies of Vista Ultimate and I certainly do not want to do a clean install of (Windows) 7 Professional or pay the full price for 7 Ultimate," said Richard Wilbur, who works in clinical research in Clearwater, Fla., and notes he has been loyal to Microsoft since the days of MS-DOS. "They should be giving us the upgrade free considering the broken promises surrounding Vista Ultimate."
For its part, Microsoft isn't being too helpful. While the company hasn't announced any discounts for Vista Ultimate owners, it's not ruling them out either. But users have only until July 11 to take advantage of Microsoft's pre-order discount on Windows 7 Professional or Home Premium.
"This is the first of the offers and there will be more to come, but we can't get into specifics on any of that yet," a Microsoft representative told CNET News.
During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft. E-mail Ina. 
You had the Business feature of domain support, bitlocker, etc, PLUS the features of Home Premium like Windows Media Center. There was NO OTHER WAY to get those things in combination except with Ultimate.
One feature (ultimate extras) would not be what made people pay that much more for the OS.
I didn't get Ultimate for the extras... I got it for what came with it (noted above mostly), and I'll do the same for Win7 (VHD support looks nice).
For people like me, the only reason to upgrade from home premium to ultimate would be to get extras. My Dell Studio doesn't support bit locker. I use my laptop at home, so no need to join a domain.
My office dell desktop doesn't need media center. The only reason to upgrade there would be the bit locker encryption, which again, the computer doesn't support.
I dont see much reason to pay extra for Ultimate.
That strikes me as odd. Bitlocker is part of the OS. It likes a TPM on the computer but you can run it without it (they don't make it obvious to figure out how though).
Poor writing on this article, author should have known, and noted the actual feature differences between Home Premium and Ultimate.
People who don't bother to research a purchase and then whine about it when they find it's not what they thought it was have to right to complain.
There's this AMAZING new thing, called THE INTERNET, where you can find out what the differences are between versions without having to purchase them first. What's the matter, too lazy to go read about it? You bought it for the extras? Maybe you should have read what the extras were before you purchased it. You could have gotten free screen savers, wallpapers and card games from the Internet. Do you buy an expensive sports car just because it has a cup holder?
@Bob Kakis: Go ahead and buy a MAc, it's probably more your speed. You think you'll get a discount from Apple when the new O/S comes out for Macs? Dream on....
I'm even more happy now that I skipped Vista completely. Good decision. My computers are happily running XP Pro, I've had zero problems with them, and there's nothing I want to buy that doesn't work in XP.
I do feel sorry for people who purchased Vista and basically got nothing for their purchase. They got to use a clunky o/s for a couple of years with no real advantage to doing so.
And that would solve what exactly? You're existing windows apps and software certainly won't work. Some of you're hardware peripherals may not work and you'll certainly be paying way more then the cost of a copy of Win7 Ultimate to go to a Mac. You posed an empty threat.
The extras, frankly, sucked. I liked the DreamScene concept (the flaming desktop was a favorite), but it sucked cycles like nothing else, and I had to abandon them. Even the high end quad-core I built last fall didn't run them very well. BitLocker is NOT for everyone; you lose your encryption key, your system's hosed. Period.
Even though the Windows Ultimate Extras were kind of underwhelming, I liked Ultimate, and I find myself in an odd position now. Win7 Pro supports my initial "Domain Join/Media Center" requirement, and I might normally be satisfied to downgrade. Except. I'm a developer/systems guy, and VHD-boot is actually a very cool, useful feature for me. I also plan to upgrade my Small Business Server 2003 to the latest version, which means I might actually have an application for DirectAccess, too.
I don't like the way Microsoft is handling the special offers. I can get a deal on an upgrade to Pro that I could have had if I'd saved a few bucks and bought Vista Business to begin with. Then I have to shell out more to upgrade to Ultimate. Unless they come out with another offer, I'm not happy.
If you were dumb enough to pay for a Crap Sundae just to get the whipped cream and cherry on top of it, that's unfortunately your problem.
(...maybe next time you could just get an OS that doesn't come in various crippled forms?)
"(...maybe next time you could just get an OS that doesn't come in various crippled forms?) "
I'm curious what OS that would be. It's not OS X since you can only legally run that on Macs and not PC's where Apple has most certainly crippled its use. Linux? Perhaps partially, but since there are so many flavors and distros out there that are not compatible with each other and requires a geek to keep them straight, I'm not sure that qualifies either.
Please elaborate on what OS you feel meets the criteria. I'm sure everyone would benefit from your thougts.
Distortion ray in full swing.
There is no Mac sold with a crippled version of OSX compared to other Macs. All retail box OSX packages are upgrades for existing Macs. They are NOT OEM disks nor retail OS disks for computers without an OS. Says so right in step on of the installation guide. You claim to repair Macs so you should know this.
Snow Leopard is clearly being marketed as an upgrade. Discount upgrade for Leopard users, full upgrade price for Tiger or earlier, but an upgrade.
Distortion ray in effect, indeed, good sir!
You took my comments out of context and warped them into a rhombus. :) Please do stay on topic.
I did not mention OS X retail upgrades, you did. Any distortion in effect is purely on your part. Any and all comments regarding it as a result are negated.
OS X is hardlocked to Mac products for support. That is crippled right there. I can get support for Windows regardless what it is installed on. That's just the simple facts. I can get support for Windows on my MacBook if I so wish- but I can't call Apple for support for the OS X installation I did from an OS X retail upgrade disk on my Dell.
The problem with spinnning facts like you have is that you spun so fast as to get yourself dizzy and confused. :)
...ikramerica-2008 is dead-on, while you, dear Dan, are hopelessly drowning in your own attempt at FUD.
Call up 800-MY-APPLE and explain how you installed OS X on Dell hardware and they'll happily assist you in finding the paragraph of the software license that you are violating.
= Crippled.
You can say that again. :) Thanks to bloat Vista's crappy performance I discovered Linux. Haven't used Windows since. MS wont see me buy the same OS over and over again.
I'm curious. Your Vista performed worse than XP? I'm using Vistax64 and it's been much faster than XP. It handles memory much more efficient and is more secure.
As for Linux, I'd love to try it out, but since AutoCAD, 3ds Max, and a host of other applications and games don't work on it, I can't make the switch.
Vista performing better than Xp is a myth !
@goodspeed
If people like linux and enjoy using it how does it matter to you ?
you obviously happy with Windows doesnt mean everyone is
otherwise we wouldn't need a billion dollar support industry to babysit Widows Users !
Not a myth. Vista can certainly out perform XP. Even in 32 bit, I benched a fresh install of XP on my system and a fresh install of Vista shortly after release and nearly all of the varying SiSoft Sandra catagories came back between 3% and 5% faster on Vista. Only one catagory was slower, and sadly I can't remember what it was, but it was about 5% faster on XP.
Vista handles alot of things better than XP, and the 64bit version obviously takes the cake for memory management. It has/had some issues, but in general they were/are centered around poor 3rd party drivers/software. Hardware vendors have no excuse for not having had terrific drivers day one. They were given access to Vista a year prior to release in order to start coding proper drivers.
"Vista performing better than Xp is a myth !"
Cite your examples that can be independantly verified or retract the statement. I'm calling you on this one. Your credibility is at stake here.
"If people like linux and enjoy using it how does it matter to you ?"
Ironic that you do not seem to take the same advice to heart when anyone mentions anything about Microsoft products. It tends to cast all your comments in a rather compromised and biased manner.
XP - 2yr old desktop AMD64/2gb ram
Vista - Brand new Toshiba Satellite - AMD X2 64/ 3gb ram
Benchmark - Fritz 10 benchmark (chess playing/analysis package)
1.0 = 1ghz P3
XP - 7.9
Vista - 3.4
Ubuntu 9.04 (on same laptop via Wine emulation) 4.7
Vista after 8hr of tweaking - 3.9
Fritz 10 benchmark test conditions under position analysis which max's out the CPU. This would be under the exact conditions that I use my systems for. Video performance is Not tested under this benchmark.
Under performance sensitive software Vista is a DOG. Too much bloat interferes with CPU access. I can see DirectX performance being pretty close as DirectX is Microsofts attempt to push most of the OS out of the way for performance reasons.
You can point your performance issues to Toshiba in your case. Try a clean install without all of the excess bloat that Toshiba forces onto you with their customized installation.
Perhaps you didn't see the part where I spent a day cleaning up the Vista machine. All crap ware was removed and all the suggested performance tweaks were applied to the system. Vista had some improvement after cleaning up the system and tweaking it, but not anything near XP performance.
I understand why many feel that Vista works 'just fine' for applications such as email, web browsing and word processing. But under conditions where the application needs every CPU cycle, Vista is a poor choice. That is what I benchmarked. Even running under Linux emulation software I got better performance than Vista.
You asked for examples and I provided them... just because you don't like the answers doesn't mean that they are not valid.
I understand why people defend Vista... it has yet to crash on my laptop, Ubuntu 9.04 has caused 2 kernel panics which I had to remove the battery to reboot. The interface does take getting used to, but then again so does linux or mac. Performance is NOT one of Vista's strengths and even in the promotion of Win7 Microsoft has acknowledged this and has taken steps to improve it. Every article that I have read has stated that Windows 7 is FAR quicker than Vista and says it runs at XP speed.
10 minutes plus the time to install/configure any applications and specialized driver suites such as ATi Catalyst and the like. Add to that re-instating any OS tweaks such as backup schedules, mapped drives, etc that one might need in a given environment. That can easily be several hours of work. Convenient omission. Try again when you have actual facts to bring to the argument. As for me...I'll be hoping that m$ offers a discount on pre-ordering "7" ultimate but if not I'm good with Vista Ultimate until either the price comes down or the next OS comes out.
I have pre-ordered 2 copies of Windows 7 Home Premium for the two Home Premium PCs, but as of this writing I'm going to orphan my Ultimate PC until Microsoft offers an upgrade program for it or no longer provides updates or service packs for it. In other words, because I paid so much for the OS on my Vista Ultimate PC - only after Vista is dead, will I replace the OS.
=======
Here's one for the "way back" machine... If Borland had sold operating systems, would it have been dumb enough to alienate its customer base or is this a Microsoft thing? :-)
That being said... why the heck do you need to upgrade to Windows 7? Unless there is something wrong with your machine/OS or you simply have so many problems with Vista that it is unusable, there is no reason you have to upgrade. This is more about people that simply want the latest and greatest. Just go buy a brand new machine with Windows 7 pre-loaded.
Much of what it does offer is window dressing....excuse the pun. Most of these new enhancemnts come at a cost: they move everything around from where it resided with Vista.
Well, maybe something should be done about this. I know that as long as I have my home folder on a separate partition I can painlessly upgrade my Ubuntu install (or even install a totally different distro!). Windows has some serious catching up to do, the quality of software we are seeing from the open source movement has so far eclipsed what closed source (by the very nature of it) will be capable of.
Two things with this. Firstly, it is not acceptable that an upgrade should "go bad". Secondly, you shouldn't need to be in the computer industry to know about this. Either Microsoft ensures that the upgrade process is done correctly (i.e. results are as good as a clean install) or they should provide simple instructions on how to achieve a clean installation.
@thisnamestoolong
"I know that as long as I have my home folder on a separate partition I can painlessly upgrade my Ubuntu install
(or even install a totally different distro!)"
dumb example. that would work fine for any OS.
You've got no applications in that scenario. You can easily one that depends on a library that your 'totally different distro' doesn't, something even as basic as glibc. If you re-install or recompile everything, you're comparing a full system rebuilt to a Windows in-place upgrade.
Put your Microsoft home folders on a separate drive.
Install your new MS OS, then select your home folders and point them to the drive that you put your old home folders on. Bingo done.
Its not rocket science
It is a good thing to do a full clean out of your house every now and then. Now, you shouldn't necessarily have to, but you tend to collect junk over the years and it gets stored and although you make an effort to store it wisely it wasn't really anyone's fault that you stored it at all - afterall, you needed to keep that awful gift from your aunt for at least a couple years so she thought you liked it. My point here, is that even a person with a clean and tidy house should clean out every now and then too.
Same goes for any OS. I don't care what platform you are using, it is simply good maintanence. Topping up the oil (an upgrade) isn't the same as changing it (full clean install). It isn't just the OS collecting junk it is you, it is the apps, it is everything.
There are strategies to make this easier - like having a junk room that if you just clean that out every year you'll be pretty much ok, do as some suggested here; put your profile (whatever the OS calls it, they all have cute names but we all know what i mean) on a separate partitian. Do not store any data on C: As for the apps, it is good for them to be reinstalled too, just like your weekly clean of the kitchen isn't the same as your spring clean... it may be just one room but it needs a good workover every now and then.
Unless Microsft has given you the source diffs your just repeating marketing material. No one, without the source or decompiling, knows how different Win7 is or if it just a few bolt-ons, a new window manager, and some refactored code.
It certainly doesn't look like the new a model to me. Just some changes to the exterior and better mileage from the '07 model to the '09 model. I run Ultimate x64. I've ran the RC of Win7 and went back. Nothing to see here other than an almost apple os x dock and some marginally better memory management. MS can go on about Win 7 being the new thing but I don't see anything that couldn't be placed in a service pack for Vista. I'll wait for Microsoft's OS revolution, if they can ever pull one off, rather than pay for a service pack evolution and a small one at that.
This is basically poor form on MSs behalf in that they are using an old 'time running out sale' approach to manipulate users into panicking buying a version they don't necessarily want (for whatever reason). They should either give a proportionate discount to all upgrade users (lets face it, these are ppl already using windows, not people who need a fresh copy - some reward for loyalty isn't unreasonable particularly when they are already giving it to some of the users) OR the should be open with a yes/no we will discount ultimate upgrade later.
But that would take scruples, something MS (and most IT companies for that matter) is very lacking.
Yes Yes and Yes I already know how great Ubuntu is too, as a matter of fact many of us IT people agree with you. But in reality it depends not on us, but depends on all those stupid big business slobs to wake up and smell the coffee and realize that Mac and Ubuntu are better and more reliable alternatives and in the long and short run... CHEAPER!!! Trust us, we have been trying to tell them, but they are just to incoherent to wht we are trying to say.
Reality is the ROI more often then not does not add, and that is one of the many reasons they avoid Linux Desktop Distro's like the plaque.
You should check out Fedora 11. It's fast, it's stable, and the price is so right. It comes with free virtualization software, so you can run XP (or Vista for the masochists) inside, for those apps that have no Linux equivalent.
I also have Vista Ultimate, and there's nothing "ultimate" about it. It has been a disappointment since day one.
Windoze is the lesser of the available evils. None of us want anything to do with Apple (worse than Microsoft), and Linux just doesn't run what we use on our computers (it silll needs to do some growing up). Not everyone wants multiple operating systems installed on their computers. Not everyone wants the expense of owning both a Mac and MS operating system and Linux is just Linux.
So the choice is between Crapple, and Windoze...I'll go with Windoze for now....
I can't get more honest than that.
LOL You hit the black dot.
Everyone who bought Vista was screwed anyway!
Personally, I think they are better off reinstalling anyway or even better, voting with their hip pocket and boycotting windows 7 - as a consumer it is about the only protest that a corporation will listen to. You are still free not to purchase it. If your computer works ok now, why bother even with the smaller upgrade costs?
On the other hand, I don't really see what the benefit is of being a Microsoft customer, beyond exposing yourself to unremittingly poor service and a lack of respect.
Imagine if all versions of Windows cost the same price.
Imagine if all versions of Windows actually had the same features
Imagine if an upgrade cost less than a tank of gas.
Imagine if the upgrade was actually an upgrade, rather than an overdue fix of a failed OS that was rejected by-and-large by the vast majority of your corporate customers
Are you forming a picture in your mind yet?
Does it look like a Snow Leopard?
I bet all you Apple owners have velcro on your shoes because you can't tie shoe laces. You all complain about not being able to get a decent windoes install, but it's a pretty simple thing to do. It's best for all of us that you went with an Apple product. Unfortunately, we still have to listen to you whine about your failures to do a simple o/s installation and have it actually work.
BTW: I also use PCLinuxOS on a daily basis, and love it. And I own an iPhone, and I love that too. So I can't really be accused of being anti- anything.
Uhm... Last time I was checking Windows * Advanced/Ulitmate/etc purchasers are precisely the crowd who have no choice but to go on buying Windows Advanced/Ultimate/etc.
What kind of "alienating" they can speak of, as they have no choice?
Thanks Microsoft, for being such a market leader in treating your customers like dirt.
you were dumb to buy Ultimate - if you indeed have it!! My bet is that many people "think" they have Ultimate, when they really just have Home Premium.
Try this instead.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/
If Crapple wants me to try out their o/s they better make it work on ANY PC hardware, and not try to FORCE me to buy their crappy hardware just to get the privledge of having their o/s.
Every one to two years I upgrade my computer, and I can reuse my Windows operating system on my new upgrade. I'm sure not going to buy a complete new computer every one to two years. Talk about a BIG waste of money!
The only people whe regularly replace their computers are people who can't do a simple upgrade themselves. You save a lot of money doing upgrades instead of replacements. The money I've saved is likely in the thousands of dollars by now. Money I would have to have spent if I owned a Crapple.
But honestly, Apple might sell millions of copies if they just sold the OS. I'm sure all the hardware guys would easily provide drivers if the based grew! Switching to Intel should make this a no brainer. Especially since the Mac cloners (illegal or not) have shown everyone it can be done.
They could have easily capitalized on the bad press around Vista, even before the Apple v/s PC ads.
I don't have any issues with the Vista Ultimate edition that I'm using, but I do have a supped up desktop. Wouldn't dream of using Vista on my work PC, not enough juice!
Can you please make a proper argument? Youre just a lonely troll. Go out on a date or something, just please stop your nonsense!
- by Ortaias July 2, 2009 5:52 AM PDT
- It seems to me that Microsoft has has become a bloated company that has lost focus on serving the retail consumer. I think the real focus for Microsoft is serving the corporate customer supported by an MIS staff. Witness the meaningless error message: "Please contact your system administrator". I didn't know that every family (but mine) had their own personal system administrator!
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- by cary1 July 2, 2009 7:31 AM PDT
- I completely agree with you. All the features that Vista Business or Ultimate offers can be offered as add ons (for a price). I still remember when Windows Media Center edition came out, I wanted to get it on my computer, but I would have to purchase a new license instead of just purchasing the media center component to install on XP home. Ditto for Tablet PC version.
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- by carbine68 July 2, 2009 10:59 AM PDT
- Very good point. I tried convince a best buy employee to sell me a computer with out windows vista. He told me i would have to pay extra through the geek squad to down grade it. i was blown away and made my purchase online through a company that actually cares about computer users. And no, I did not buy a Dell, HP, or any of these hacks. I purchased from CLEVO. Fastest laptops in the world. Alienware acutally purchases from this company and resells it as there own.
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- by freddy_ace July 2, 2009 11:48 AM PDT
- Great Points! I agree!
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- by Seaspray0 July 2, 2009 1:05 PM PDT
- 1. Home and professional versions, I can see. I don't care for any more versions than that.
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- by ikramerica--2008 July 2, 2009 1:10 PM PDT
- I agree.
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- by pentest July 6, 2009 11:54 AM PDT
- "The manual is included. Start>Help. Everything you need to know on how to operate the computer is there. Advanced settings can be found on technet.microsoft.com."
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Showing 1 of 7 pages (252 Comments)Anyway, more to the point
1. An operating system should not have multiple versions. Yes - we can have add-ons but the basic operating system itself should include all features necessary to run and back-up your system.
2. You should be able to buy computers WITHOUT the operating system. Yes - our local independent computer store does this but not Best Buy.
3. Every computer sold, with Windows, should come with a Window's CD.
4. Microsoft should provide an operating manual on CD.
I agree with the OS on CD too. I had some situation where I could not install from the OS backup included on hard drive (like installing a new hard drive) and these companies charge $20-30 to send those CDs. Nice way to make money!
Manual should be provided on CD or online. I prefer online since it is updated version.
2. You can. It depends on the OEM.
3. No, on the CD (would require more than one). It should come with a DVD.
4. The manual is included. Start>Help. Everything you need to know on how to operate the computer is there. Advanced settings can be found on technet.microsoft.com.
The add-ons like video editing, DVD creation and photo software, if they cost MS money to develop and they feel they should charge for it, can be extra. But things like security, networking, etc. should be complete and standard on ALL OS versions, and updated on ALL versions.
In essence, this is how OS X is constructed. Though they do include iLife with new computers (as part of the feature set of buying a Mac and the added value of the "tax" they charge), it is not included with the OS upgrade retail boxes. This keeps upgrade prices down, because not everyone wants those products if they are using more advanced products.
MS could learn something from this model. Even if you think Windows is better and that's your choice, I would love to hear an argument for crippling the networking and security features of "home" versions of an OS. Not only does it short change the customer, it perpetuates the idea that home computers don't need security, or that networking is difficult, when if reality, everyone needs security, and networking basics should be easy. MS would sell more Windows copies if home networking and sharing were simpler in all OS versions, as customers would be more willing to add a machine...
Like usual Seaspray misses the point.
People who buy computers are generally technically illiterate. How can they use help when they don't know what they are searching for? That is why retail versions of other OS's come with 3 manuals. A short getting started guide, an in depth book, and tons of help files installed.