Mozilla executives address Firefox's challenges

CARLSBAD, Calif.--Although it has managed to grab nearly a quarter of the browser market, Mozilla now finds itself in an unenviable position--competing against Microsoft, Apple, and Google all at the same time.

Speaking at D: All Things Digital on Thursday, Mozilla's Mitchell Baker noted that the company didn't set out with that in mind.

"That's not the business model you are going to pick," Baker said. "It is a daunting space to compete with the three giants of the era."

That said, Baker and fellow Mozilla executive John Lilly said there is still a place for Firefox.

"We've just got to be us," Lilly said. "Mozilla has always been about scratching an itch."

Another challenge, Lilly said, is that people don't perceive the browser as something that changes their Web experience. "Most people just think it's this pane of glass," Lilly said. Three quarters of people use the browser that comes with their computer, he said.

But browsers are important, Lilly maintained.

"We spend more time with our browser than we do in our cars," Lilly said. "The real truth, I spend more time with my browser than I do with my family."

Mozilla's John Lilly and Mitchell Baker (far right) speak with Walt Mossberg on the complexities of the browser business.

(Credit: Ina Fried/CNET)

When describing modern Web browsers, Lilly didn't include Internet Explorer 8, despite agreeing it is better than past versions of the Microsoft browser.

"You can't run complex Web apps well," Lilly said.

Given that, Mossberg asked why IE isn't doomed, then.

"Bundling has certain advantages," Lilly said.

Baker echoed that. "What's easier for Microsoft and Apple is distribution," Baker said.

As for former backer Google now being a competitor, Baker acknowledged it's a challenge.

"It feels complex," she said. "We still actually have a good relationship with Google."

They noted Google is helping Firefox add geolocation features to the browser. "Competing with big companies is not new," Lilly said. "Google is a different kettle of fish," he acknowledged, given its deep understanding of the Web.

Lilly said that Google is focused on offering a clean interface to the Web. "Our point of view is that the browser can do more," he said. "We've got to compete on the merits."

Pressed on whether he would be happier if Google had stayed out of the browser fray, Lilly said: "It would be easier." But, he added that the competition has spurred Mozilla to move faster.

Going for-profit, Baker said, isn't really an option for Mozilla.

"We are only successful because we are different," she said, noting that that is the reason people contribute to Firefox. "Without that we are totally dead."

As for mobile, Lilly noted that the company waited for the environment to change

"How many people before the (Apple) app store had ever installed anything on their phone," he said. "We needed that to change."

Lilly said they also didn't want to scale back the experience.

"We didn't want to do a Firefox mobile," he said. "We wanted to do Firefox."

The company has been working on one and is coming out first for Linux, specifically Nokia's Mimo variant. Next up after that would be Windows Mobile, with Lilly again getting a dig in at Microsoft, saying it didn't have a real browser.

The one place Lilly said Firefox isn't headed right now is Apple's iPhone.

"iPhone is not a hospitable environment for us," he said. "Apple has said no browsers."

[Mr. Dee]

Don't worry Mozilla. I love Microsoft products, but IE 8 is just slow, it loads certain pages fast, but right now most of my web browsing experiences are done in Firefox. Google Chrome is now a welcome part of my experiences on the web too, specifically when working with Google websites or sites that use a lot of javascript and I need them to load fast on a GPRS connection. Gmail loads super fast in Chrome. If Ff improves the javascript performance, I might be able to cut the amount of web browsers I have open down to two. But, I still think Firefox is the best browser out there now where performance is concerned with Chrome coming in second and IE 8 a distant third.

[FutureGuy]

Google is not a "Google is a different kettle of fish", stop setting Google as the default seach engine and Google will consume Lilly and his little company alive.

[monkeyfun14]

"iPhone is not a hospitable environment for us," he said. "Apple has said no browsers."

And no one gets mad at them for this?

[pithenumber]

they are Apple
what do you think
they have things called fanboys[like Applerocks, you know him right?] to defend them if someone ever brings it up

[sanjayb]

I get mad that MS doesn't bundle Firefox with Windows!!

[miaminica]

Mozilla says Microsoft is cramming its browser don't people's throat by bundling with the OS. Isn't Mozilla trying to do the same thing by going to court to get Microsoft to bundle Firefox in its OS, in turn cramming down users throats a browser they don't want?

From my own experience, the biggest threat to Firefox isn't that Microsoft isn't bundling Firefox with Windows. Firefox biggest threat is Google. I tried Firefox and didn't like it. I tried Chrome and now use it as my backup browser (IE8 is my default browser). A lot of Firefox users are waiting for extensions to come to Chrome and they'll switch from Firefox.

[ddhboy]

Well if you think that IE8 is a better browser than Firefox then I'd have to say that you should seriously reconsider.

[pentest]

It is not about bundling, it is about IE being bolted to the OS, which causes countless security issues.

[Zer0Wolf]

@pentest I think that's absolute bull. It's a security issue only for someone who's just sitting on his system with updates disabled. AFAIK MS is one of the leaders in addressing security issues as quickly as possible.
If you think you can keep your system from a security patch and still get away with a security flaw just using Firefox, then you're wrong.
Someone correct me if this isn't so.

[Dalkorian]

Mozilla isn't trying to get M$ to bundle FF with it's OS, they're trying to give the OS customer's a real choice. Using the bundled one with shortcuts everywhere versus remembering to go online and download, then install another browser is the issue they're attempting to address.

And Pentest is right on with the biggest problem with IE. Exploit it and you have exploited parts of the OS. It doesn't take rocket science to figure out that's a bad thing, but it does take someone who isn't high on the M$ kool-aide.

[Seaspray0]

@dalkorian. Not only are OEM's free to preinstall any OS, they are also free to preinstall any browser they desire prior to selling a PC to the end customer. It's not like microsoft is giving you an EULA requiring you to only use IE with windows. This has already been played out with windows media player, and guess what... people did not buy the "N" version. No matter how much you complain ... nobody really cares about it.

btw, respect is earned. If you can't bother to spell microsoft or MS properly, you don't deserve any respect.