Microsoft wants to 'rescue' apps for Windows 7

The rule of thumb is that if a program runs in Vista, it will run in Windows 7. Conversely, in general, programs that won't run in Vista also won't work with Windows 7.

Windows 7 bears a resemblance to Vista.

(Credit: ZDNet UK)

At least in a few cases, though, even applications that didn't run in Vista will run in Windows 7. That's because of some work that Microsoft has done to "rescue" certain types of programs that were rendered incompatible by the move to Vista.

"Along with the core tenet of ensuring that any application that worked on Windows Vista also works on Windows 7, we have a stretch goal to 'raise the bar' and make applications work on Windows 7 that never worked on Windows Vista," Microsoft said in a blog posting this week.

So far, Microsoft said, it has managed to take about 30 international applications that were broken in Vista and make them work in Windows 7. Among the "rescued" titles are things like the Spanish-language IKEA Home Kitchen Planner, a German version of QuickTime, and the Arabic program Khalifa Cartoon Characters Creator.

"This means that Windows 7 will have higher application compatibility than Windows Vista," Microsoft said. Microsoft's blog lists a host of non-English applications that have been "rescued." Presumably, it is doing the same with some English programs, though the company did not offer up any names.

Application compatibility has always been a key benchmark for new Windows releases and one of the knocks on Vista was the significant number of software and hardware titles that didn't work at launch.

Windows 7 is seen as having less of an incompatibility issue, in part because of Microsoft's work, but also because it is making less significant changes to things like the driver model and other issues that tend to affect compatibility. The company also took other steps, such as making Windows 7 technically version 6.1 of Windows, in an effort to try to make the software more likely to run with older software.

Still, while most Vista-compatible applications should run fine in Windows 7, Microsoft did note that there are always a class of applications that run very close to the operating system--things like security software--that have to be tweaked for a new version. That will also be the case this time around, Microsoft said.

[The_happy_switcher]

I wonder when they will 'rescue' the end user from their crappy and bloated OS.

[shinji257]

Have you even tried the beta? Windows 7 is far better than Vista has ever been. So much so that even those that were against Vista have tried and liked Windows 7.

[carlg113]

simple answer. if you don't like it don't buy or use it. then again someone with the name apple rocks prob doesn't understand not doing whatever the ceo of their os of choice demands.

[homercles82]

AppleRocks1963 kindly took a few minutes from finger swiping on his iPhone to type up this response on his $3,500 Mac. He even put down his soy latte to to do this! Clearly we need to appreciate his comment!

I was disappointed though. I expected him to make a joke about how Windows7 is Vista SP2 lulz

[Toulinwoek]

You were "rescued" as soon as you stopped using their 'crappy and bloated OS'. Stop blaming them for your woes and move on. Pshhhhhh.

Eat your Apple and shut up.

[ducttape36]

presenting: AppleRocks1963's greatest hits!
featuring such classics as,
"Windows: The Humpty Dumpty of OSs."
"I thought the headline said 'sumo' not kumo and was expecting a picture of Ballmer in a sumo outfit."
"Vista PC: The gift that keeps not giving. Redmond: time to order more lipstick."
"Let me guess, to turn it 'off' you have to press 'start' somewhere, right? lol "
"Yeah if I were Gates I wouldn't want to be reminded every day how much my products suck, too, if I were using an iPhone or ipod."
and unforgetable favorites like
"Time to shut the company down, Billy boy, and give the money back to the shareholders."
and "Welcome to XP, Microsofts OS for the next 91 years 'cause noone's gonna upgrade. lol"

90% of his time and comments are spent on windows announcements. i kind of feel bad for him.

[Ratpack309]

Judging by your SN I might be wasting my time here, but why not I have plenty so:

1) Often the issue is not what Microsoft sticks in their OS that is the issue. It's what HP, Dell, Gateway, etc... bundle in. However, with Vista, I would agree that the OS itself hogged up more memory than anybody could find reason for. With build 7000 of Windows 7, on the other hand, memory consumption is way down on my dekstop (x64), and is strangely close to Ubuntu on my laptop (also x64). Now to be fair it's a fresh install of 7 versus a 2 year install of Ubuntu (which in and of itself is one of the more bloated *nixes), but for a mainstream Microsoft OS to even come close ever is pretty amazing. And let's not forget that this is still in beta.

2) "Bloated" ... ok, you think that it's slow, but compared to what? I haven't seen any benchmarks yet comparing 7 to any OS other than it's predecessors. All of which it has won so far. Once we hit the RC or RTM, maybe we can benchmark it against a *nix machine and a leopard machine, but that wouldn't exactly be a fair or reasonable test in beta.

3) "Crappy" ... Well, your post wasn't substantial enough to garner a reason as to why you might find this OS 'crappy', other than the afformentioned 'bloat', but what I find crappy is automatically assuming the OS is no good because it came from Microsoft. When I get my hands on Snow Leopard, I will gladly try it and give it a fair shake before dismissing it as just another trendy Apple release, but I would have hoped that you were intellegent enough to do the same for MS as well.

[Willie Winkie]

A lot of people (myself included) have taken a shine to the Windows 7 beta. But I wonder if a lot of my (and others) sentiment is based on the fact that anything that is NOT Vista gets an automatic "pass."

[Commander_Spock]

From the famous "lines" in one of those James Bond Movies (007) which goes like this: "WHO NEEDS TO BE RESCUED"!

When you are running IBM's OS/2 like the Russians do "With Love"!

[Renegade Knight]

That remains to be seen. As a Vista Early adopter and Early to be burned on the deal I'm hoping that they do right by us all. If 7 fixes Vitst than 7 should aldo be Vista SP2 and obliterate Vista from the earth.

[traxx09]

I think AppleRocks is a Cnet editor (because they all seem to be a senior editor) just trying to increase the amount of comments on the stories.

[badmojo42]

Lets hear it for AppleRocks1963 everybody!!! the one man Microsoft bashing machine..... How do you find the time?

[The_happy_switcher]

Thank you, I'll be here all week.

[badmojo42]

I don't think you ever leave dude.... sad very sad.... thought all your crAPPLE devices would make you so happy and busy you wouldn't have time to sit on cnet all day waiting for the next Microsoft article to come out so you can bash it.

[Seaspray0]

@applerocks (and only applerocks).

Windows 7 is a superior operating system over osx. Windows 7 is more intuitive and easy to use. osx is bloated with malware and full of holes like swiss cheese. With windows 7, it's easier and faster to get things done. Snow lepoard will be just a makeover of crappy osx... a pig with lipstick.

[Renegade Knight]

Find the time? MicroSoft makes it easy.

[viper396]

Ironically AppleRocks1963 is doing the best job of insuring that many people will never consider switching to a Mac. His truly juvenile, bizarre, trendy/elitist, arrogant attitude turns many people off. He's gotten to the point that even other Mac users are embarrassed to be one.

[Mark_Anderson]

And the truth is Applerocks will be here all week simply because he has nothing else to do.

[Orion Blastar]

AppleRocks1963 is unemployed but gets royalties from Apple for bashing Microsoft products and uprating Apple products on CNet. I heard he earns $1.50 per troll, so you'd better get busy AppleRocks1963 and start posting more AstroTurf trolls.

[touristguy87]

Simple: he probably doesn't have to spend huge amounts of time trying to keep his system running :)

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[sanjayb]

Fortunately any programs I used on XP worked fine in Vista.

[celticbrewer]

I agree. I never had a problem running any program under Vista 32 or even Vista 64. The only thing I don't get with Vista are all the blue screens I used to get with XP.

It's funny that the best examples the article could come up with are crapware (no to mention, one of them is an APPLE product).

[touristguy87]

Unfortunately it cost you $300 just to find that out :)

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[msjonker]

I have to say that I'm not sure I've really ever ran into an app that ran in XP but wouldn't run in Vista. Typically what I've seen is that the installer blocks installation in Vista because it doesn't recognize the OS, which is the developer's own fault.

[Ratpack309]

Which is why this is version 6.1 and not version 7. Hopefully that will help to account for people who don't update their programs quickly enough.

There were a few programs, but the only one that wouldn't work on Vista for me was Partition Magic 8. I think they came out with a new version that works now, but I just switched to Paragon (arguably a better program anyway) and moved on.

[BigGuns149]

I have still encountered some applications on Windows 7 where despite the internal version number of 6.1 the installer blocks installation even though I can't see any obvious problems with the application on Windows 7 after I have changed the reported version to XP or Vista.

[touristguy87]

...right, it's the *developers* fault that you are trying to install an app into the latest version of Windows...and it won't work :) Their fault for even developing for a crappy OS like Windows in the first place :)

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[ducttape36]

faster performance, ability to uninstall ie, and now this? who is this company? im actually excited about a microsoft product and its scaring me!

[Ratpack309]

6 weeks with the beta and I've been recommending a Microsoft product to my friends. I'm not entirely sure, but I'm starting to think they put something in the water.

[MPB]

really my experience was kind of the opposite. I installed Windows 7 on my Mac (via Boot camp) played around with it and haven't touch it since.

[BigGuns149]

I will agree that I find the Windows 7 betas far more promising than the Vista betas, but I still hope they don't rush it to market because there are still some issues that need some work.

[pentest]

MS has a bad habit of adding in a lot of last second bloat between the last RC and going gold.

Hold your enthusiasm until then.

[touristguy87]

Of course you wouldn't even need to worry about being able to uninstall IE, if IE (not to mention Windows itself) was designed in a reasonable way!

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[grsilver]

People always seem to bash the current OS and then praise the old one. Doesn't make sense.

Win 98 users cussed about protected memory and then when XP came - people said how great Win 98 was.

Then when XP was out for awhile they cussed because of security holes and then when Vista came out they swore by XP.

Then when Vista has been out for a few months they complain about drivers and system requirements.

The only difference in this trend is people are really liking Windows 7. Personally, EVERY operating system I've used has it's ups and downs. Nothing is perfect. Just use it and stop complaining.

[Renegade Knight]

Not this Windoze user. I found each generation to be better than the last. I never used ME. Even with Vista I like the interface better than XP. However for the first time I've had to wrestle the OS like a greased pig to make it work right. MicroSoft support left me hanging and when I dumped a spare unused copy on eBay their legal team shot me down in flames. Vista turned me on to OS X, and Linux and against MicroSoft. Now I use their products only when there is nothing else whatsoever that will do the same job. Overall that's fairly easy.

[E McCann]

Honestly? I praise XP as it finally stabilized. I'm happy with it.
Vista, I took a pass on because of higher requirements, driver issues, etc. - it was, to me, a "dot-zero" which I tend to avoid.
Meanwhile, on my other partition, I'm running Windows 7 Beta - and already planning to pick it up, at or near launch, and build a system to take full advantage of it. As it is *now* I'd run it.
As far as prior operating systems?
Win95 - proved to me why they called PnP "Plug and Pray." I had a triple boot system (DOS, OS/2, Win95.) Swapped a modem (14.4 to 28.8.) OS/2 and DOS? Fine. Win95? Spent an hour trying to get my mouse back. Then there were the TCP/IP drops, fixed in a later patch...
Win98 - Was generally happy with.
NT 4 - Same
2k - Didn't run at home, but "it just worked" (generally) at work.
XP - Let the dust settle, picked up, and was generally happy with it.

With none of these, barring the comments about Win95, do I have any experiences that stick in my mind where I complained about the current OS. My only reason for not running vista *now* (other than Win7 coming up and not wanting to spend the money again) is that my current systems "just work" and I dont' tend to like futzing around with them just for the sake of change.

[touristguy87]

...bashing the current OS and praising the old one again, this is not an issue with Linux! Due to its modular construction Linux NEVER "breaks!" It just works! And each new version works even better!

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[spacydog]

I'm curious, does anyone know why exactly those apps didn't work in Vista? And what exactly is Microsoft doing to make them work on Win7? It just makes more sense to me for the app developers to get it "right" and develop their apps correctly for the OS and not the other way around.

[rapier1]

Since these are international apps I'm wondering is its a localization issue.

[touristguy87]

"what apps don't work with the current version" is simply not an issue with Linux!

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[Jonnygthedrummer]

maaybe 7 will be good , cause vista was a disaster, but if 7 came out after XP , an vista never existed,
would ppl still like it as much?

[iff2mastamatt]

I can take that call since I'm on XP right now and I never used Vista!

[Jonnygthedrummer]

@iff2mastamatt have u used 7?

[touristguy87]

The best that you can hope for with Windows is that it will be good.

Why hope that it will be good? Get something that you know is good, and that you know will continue to be so.

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[GEFadmin]

What is Microsoft's current position on requiring PCs to check in once a month, or so, just to make sure that no one has changed their operating system. I don't mind registering with MS when I load the system, I refuse to check in monthly. That is why I am running XP now.

[Jonnygthedrummer]

is that wat vista an 7 does, will they track you?

[contentcreator--2008]

This is just FUD crap. If you never update the OS, you're just worm bait. Doesn't matter what OS that is.

[Jonnygthedrummer]

btw , i never edited my os lol

[Renegade Knight]

Expect it to get worse. I have to call MicroSoft up on the phone to activate my software every time I change out a computer or hard drive. Between upgrades, crashes, and kids I've done more than a few installs. MicroSoft no longer gives me a green light to re-install their software. I have to call. The day will come when they pull the plug on the servers and the ablity to call at all leaving us all with nothing.

OpenOffice goes on every machine now. It just installs. No need to phone in a mother may I.

[Mark_Anderson]

RK , must you continue to spread your unsubstantiated lies here?

Honestly, cut it out.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Renegade Knigtht: In all the years that I've had Vista on my machine, I have never had to call up Microsoft for a reactivation. I've replaced several drives due to upgrades.

What are you doing to your system that is resulting in so many parts replacements and OS reinstalls? The symptoms, based upon your information, point to customer / end user abuse and/or ignorance.

[reya276]

@Vegaman_Dan

See I say your the one spreading the FUD because if you are a home user you sure do have to call them if you change any piece of hardware on your PC it has happened to me as well about 4 times. So please let me know which version of vista where you running, *** you think WGA is? This is the same reason why I dumped windows all together. I pay for an OS with my hard earned money but I have to call them everytime I change a piece of hardware what a load of crap.

[eadeguzman]

ok... Renegade Knight, reya276...

I guess you don't use Mac either... I can't even imagine opening up a Mac and replacing a drive. You guys must be Linux users and "true" Open Source believers...

Regular home or even business users will not have this problem as most people don't tend to upgrade hardware (specifically HDD or network card) every few months.

Calling Microsoft one more time when you upgrade your hardware doesn't sound much of a big deal anyway. Certainly not a reason to abandon an OS altogether. Your posts "sounded" as if it's a common case -- it's not.

The process is there for a reason.

How will Microsoft know if you're just upgrading your machine and not installing it on new computers altogether?

I appreciate you buying it with your hard-earned money... But what you bought was not Windows itself, but the right to use it on one computer.

[rapier1]

I really don't know what RK and Reya are talking about. I've done full swap outs of motherboards, cpus, memory, and video cards at the same time without having to reactivate. I've also swapped hard drives without having to call anyone. This was on a home system. No special licensing.

[touristguy87]

Avoid the registration and validation issue entirely!

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[Jonnygthedrummer]

also my database program , Goldmind didnt work with vista, unless i wanted to pay a bunch to upgrade

[contentcreator--2008]

If you're a developer, it's not like you're going to update version 3 to work with a new ANYTHING when you are already on version 5, what's the point? People are just looking for a free lunch on this --- developers to support something that didn't even exist at the time of the original version. With it's an OS or hardware or whatever, as the new stuff comes along you're going to have to support the development of the code that makes it all keep working together.

[Jonnygthedrummer]

thats true , but windows should let those programs still work in vista

[rakker91]

Jonny, Why should windows still run old programs? Do you try to put 1950's auto parts in your 2008 ford? The expectation that software should be backwards compatible forever is laughable. In fact, if MS hadn't done such a good job at making things backwards compatible, we wouldn't have this discussion.

[odubtaig]

Because we're paying them to and it's possible.

You're also comparing completely unrealistic timescales. this isn't asking MS-DOS 6 compatibility, it's the exact previous O/S. Like trying to fit an engine from a 1950s Beetle into a 1970s one. It can be done.

It's exactly this contempt for the people paying their wages that has people looking for alternatives. Customer = Boss. You want to dictate terms, do it on your own dime.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Odubtaig:

My Mac OS 4.0 apps won't work in OS X on an intel-based system running 10.5. Why is that? I paid for those OS updates and Apple should be required to make every OS version backwards compatible with every application ever created for those earlier versions.

Of course this isn't the case, and your logic completely fails in that Apple cut the cord as well with prior OS's.

[monkeyfun14]

@odub


You do realize the previous os and programs may have been created almost 10 years ago?

[odubtaig]

Vegaman: I'll quote myself as you're either duplicitous or retarded.

"this isn't asking MS-DOS 6 compatibility, it's the exact previous O/S."

Your comparison is a crock.

Now, for whatever reason you brought up Mac OS so let's make a more real comparison.

Apple switches to OS X, introduces an emulation layer so those with OS 9 can effectively run it on top of OS X in the event that they need to run legacy apps.

Later Apple switches marchitecture and provides Rosetta for running those PPC only apps on Intel Macs.

This is an Apples for apples comparison, not the whiny excuse laden garbage you wrote.

Monkeyfun: I don't care how long ago it was created, it's still current, in current use, with software being currently written for it. This isn't an O/S that's only of historical interest like MS-DOS or Win95 (or Mac OS 4).

[touristguy87]

Want free database support combined with excellent performance?

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[touristguy87]

Nice "strawman" argument that Windows shouldn't have to be backwards-compatible with old hardware forever. All we really want is for it to be backwards-compatible with the hardware that we're running right now. Is that too much to ask?

Not with Linux :)
If a Linux driver has been written for it, it will probably work even with the latest version of Linux! If a *Windows* driver has been written for it, chances are that you can use a Linux wrapper around that Windows driver and get it to work in Linux!

How do you like *them* apples?

And what do you think are the odds that a Windows driver will be written for a late-model version of Windows, if there wasn't one available for the previous version? Let your old hardware live a new life with Linux!

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[Mr. Dee]

To AppleRocks1963 with love:

Quote:
"Users still facing software issues while running the most current version of Mac OS X Leopard may take kindly to word that Mac OS X 10.5.7 is moving swiftly through its development cycle.

As was reported at the time, that build arrived with nearly six dozen code corrections, a barebones weight of 440 megabytes, and requests that developers focus their testing efforts on over 20 core components, including AirPort, Mail, graphics drivers, and Time Machine."

Source: www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/06/apple_ready_with_second_beta_of_mac_os_x_juno.html

Think about that 72 patches after patching this one OS with 6 previous point updates already. This one update alone weighs 440 MBs, I am truly sorry for those who haven't patched since 10.5.1, then again, maybe those Macs have already been dumped and replaced by productive Windows based systems.

Quote:
"$200 iTunes Gift Certificates are selling for less than $3 in China now that a group of local hackers has circumvented Apple's algorithm for creating the digital vouchers and built their own gift certificate generators.

According to Outdustry, which describes itself as a music industry consultancy specializing in the Chinese music business, sellers on China's largest consumer-to-consumer online shopping site are marketing these illegitimate vouchers directly to customers."

Source: www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/10/hackers_crack_apples_itunes_gift_card_algorithm.html

Apple OS-X security update 2009-001 (February 12):
CVE-ID: CVE-2009-0009: Impact: Opening a maliciously crafted movie file may lead to an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code execution

CVE-ID: CVE-2009-0020: Impact: Opening a file with a maliciously crafted resource fork may lead to an unexpected application termination or arbitrary code execution

CVE-ID: CVE-2008-5050, CVE-2008-5314: Description: Multiple vulnerabilities exist in ClamAV 0.94, the most serious of which may lead to arbitrary code execution

CVE-ID: CVE-2009-0137: (Safari RSS) Impact: Accessing a maliciously crafted feed: URL may lead to arbitrary code execution
CVE-ID: CVE-2009-0138: Impact: Remote attackers may be able to access Server Manager without valid credentials. Description: An issue in Server Manager's validation of authentication credentials could allow a remote attacker to alter the system configuration

CVE-ID: CVE-2009-0139: Impact: Connecting to a maliciously crafted SMB file system may lead to an unexpected system shutdown or arbitrary code execution with system privileges

(this is not the complete list)

Go focus on fixing your crappy antiquated looking OS that is still living in back to the future 1984 interface paradigms.

[touristguy87]

...sounds to me like someone is jealous of the extensive & free programmer support behind the OS versions of Unix, like the Mac OS and Linux :)

Quoting those numbers will only make you even more jealous as time goes by....it will never end until you break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[punterjoe]

Well, at least they seem to be trying to undo past mistakes. I for one wish them luck - and, believe it or not, I don't mean that sarcastically.

[The_happy_switcher]

Mr. Dee: Let me know when CNET gives you the greenlight to post the 10000 pages of microsoft patches.

[badmojo42]

10000 pages? at say 25 per page, you're saying there are over 250K patches. worst I've seen was 93 and that was for a server 2003 sp1 box that hadn't been updated in almost two years. where do you get this stuff from AppleRocks1963???

[iff2mastamatt]

Silly Apple Fan Boy.

[kojacked]

Lemme answer that: His A$$

[Vegaman_Dan]

10,000 pages? How about you list them all if you already know the total?

Back up your claim with facts and evidence. You'll be able to put everyone in their place and show how superior you are to everybody by doing that.

[Toulinwoek]

I know of people who have used Vista from Day One and have had no problems at all from then until now. My problem is, I also know of a lot of people for whom it was a nightmare (maybe about 30% or so), and as it would have cost me $180 for the version I would have wanted, and since at the time XP was doing all I thought I needed it to do, I simply passed on Vista. It wasn't worth that much cash to take the chance that *maybe* I'd be one of the fortunate ones.

I've been using the beta of Windows 7 and I am so pleased with it that I am seriously thinking of making it my main OS (yeah, I know how risky that is). I didn't realize what XP was lacking until I tried 7. I have heard nothing but good reports from those who have actually been using 7 extensively and I have to say, I am impressed that Microsoft dug down and did what they did with it. I have only had 2 problems; one was a little program that wouldn't install (the installer would just quit), but I didn't really need that program anyway, and my MIDI keyboard (E-MU XBoard61) won't work because the driver for it is unsigned, and apparently, 7 will not allow installation of unsigned drivers. Of course, this isn't Microsoft's fault. I contacted E-MU Systems and they aren't releasing an updated or signed driver...yet.

Anyway, I am satisfied overall with Windows 7, and barring a prohibitive cost, I am sure I'll be upgrading as soon as it's released.

[bdaughtry]

>> I didn't realize what XP was lacking until I tried 7.

Touli, what is XP lacking exactly that Win 7 improves?. I can find no improvements except for the ability to pin an app to the taskbar. That is not worth the pain of an O/S upgrade. Certainly it is not worth buying a new system. Like Vista, it will not run "full screen" apps and it gives the same BS message. So, where's the benefits? The more I use it, the less I like it.

[DrtyDogg]

you can pin an app to the taskbar in xp what "full screen" apps won't run?

[Toulinwoek]

Responsing to badmojo42:

I find Win7 faster (a direct comparison, because I am dual-booting, so both XP and 7 are running on identical hardware. The few apps I use that crashed or froze every now and then haven't done so (yet) in 7. The overall interface is more intuitive and efficient for the way I work (your experience may of course differ in this area). I don't run but maybe two or three full-screen programs and all of them have run perfectly for me, but then I never had a problem with those in XP anyway. Plus, I just like the way Win7 looks and "feels"; it's that unquantifiable thing that just makes me feel more comfortable while working, playing or just middling around. I haven't felt the need to pin an app to the taskbar, so my experience isn't even based on that. I do admit though, that the Start Menu feels a little cramped, but I've just about gotten used to that.

I almost dread having to switch back over to XP, but until E-MU releases signed drivers, I have to use XP for music composition because I can't use my MIDI keyboard in 7. Other than that, XP would be in the drawer by now already. And if you're referring to buying a new computer, I find I won't even have to upgrade any of my current hardware unless I just want to.

To be even more abstract (LOL) XP now feels "noisy" and rough, while Win7 feels "quiet" and smooth. I don't know if that makes any sense or not.

[bdaughtry]

@DrtyDogg: You can pin an app to the Start Menu, but you can not pin an app to the taskbar in XP. Any application that needs to run in 'full screen' video mode will not run on Vista or Win 7. Mine happens to be a point of sale application, but there are lots more as well that Vista and Vista II the sequel puke on.

[DrtyDogg]

Again: you can pin an app to the taskbar in XP. Don't know what specific app you are talking about, but I've yet to encounter that problem, can you get a video? I'd really like to see software puke.

[touristguy87]

"I didn't realize what XP was lacking until I tried 7. "

And you can bet that's still the case with 7, with respect to 8. And 8 with respect to 9 and so on. And the same with your windows apps that "require" xp, or vista, or windows 7, etc etc etc.

It will never end until you break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[wiredchicken]

I have been using the same operating system (XP) for 8-7 years. If Microsoft says it is going to be alot better then Vista, then it needs to be able to run on a computer that ran windows xp!!! I am not going to buy entire new laptop just so I can can upgrade to 7. It should be mandatory that it runs on a 512mb 40gb computer for the minimum requirements!

[B-Ri]

Windows 7, like XP will run on the type of system you describe. It may even run a bit snappier. The problem is that even the much praised XP is not very pleasant with 512mb ram. It runs much better with 1gb. If those are your specs don't upgrade to 7. I never recommend that to people anyway. The computer you bought was designed with a certain version of Windows in mind. It may or may not work as well with future versions. Don't complain about MS making a modern OS when you're the one that doesn't want to upgrade your hardware. If it works with XP keep it. Then when you finally do need a new computer you can find out what you've been missing.

[YoungZeke]

This is what I don't get, if you want to run on some of the oldest hardware around than why update your OS? 512MB of RAM, really? 1GB sticks are less than $10, if your not going to spend $10 on RAM why would you spend any money on an OS? You should be upgrading to take advantage of new hardware. Windows 95 (released in 95) required 4MB of RAM (8MB reccomended) and needed about 60MB of hard disk space . 6 years later Microsoft released XP, were you annoyed that it didn't run on 4MB of RAM? I hope not. Now, what a shock, after 8 years the system requirements have gone up (to a much less degree of change than the previous 6 year seperation) and people complain about resourses. Personally I wouldn't even use a 32 bit OS anymore, whats the point?

[actualtiger]

if your 521MB 40G laptop running XP is doing what you want , then why would bother upgrading to Windows 7.

Rather than pressuring MS to make Seven run on old systems, pressure them to extend the support of XP until 2012. By then you would have gotten 10-11 years use out of your laptop. That's better than you'll get from most cars and you wouldn't have spent a single red cent on maintenance - MS will do a service on your OS every Tuesday for free if you let them.

I ran Adobe CS2 on a 512MB XP box, CS3 made me go to 1G, CS4 made me go to a new XP box with 4G. The old box still runs everything else, eg Office 2000, IE 6 etc. I upgrade Adobe CS because of the productivity improvements that new versions offer to my business. The days of being practically compelled to do hardware upgrades because of a new OS disappeared on Sept 9 2002, that's when XP-SP1 was released. Since then it's been changes to applications, changes to computer usage patterns and consumerism (aka me-too-ism) that's driven hardware sales - not OS changes.

[touristguy87]

"I have been using the same operating system (XP) for 8-7 years. If Microsoft says it is going to be alot better then Vista, then it needs to be able to run on a computer that ran windows xp!!!"

Makes complete sense, and congratulations again for taking the red pill :)
It's not a better OS unless it runs faster and better on the same hardware.
Otherwise you are mainly solving the problems with the old hardware on the old system by getting a new system with a faster CPU and more memory.

But do you believe, this is how MS has "fixed" their OS for the past 15 years? Bogging it down with more features and "patches" to the point where people eventually had no choice but to upgrade their hardware...adn then holding new features for the latest version of their OS!

Break the chain! Try Linux with Suns new vxVirtualBox manager, and run all the old crappy versions of Windows that you want in separate virtual machines. It's all free, you've already paid for all the software that you'll need to do this.

[sythara]

Release something that is a complete pile of crap (Vista) and make sure the whole world hates it. This lowers your standards and expectations from everyone.

Then release something that is 'ok' but not all that great, and people will love you for making such great product.

Stop comparing 7 to Vista. Compare 7 with XP and see how it holds up.

[B-Ri]

They are comparing 7 to Vista because they are similar. 7 to XP isn't really fair...to XP. Vista and 7 are improvements over XP. Are they perfect? No but I wouldn't call Vista a pile of crap either. Though I must say I've only used it since it came out without any issues. This is typical bashing by someone who clearly doesn't like MS. So yes you're cool cause you said Vista sucks but those of us who use it will continue to get things done. Rant over.

[Toulinwoek]

>Compare 7 with XP and see how it holds up.<
I have, and Win7 holds up marvelouslly. Win7 beta versus WinXP SP3...my experience is that there is a noticeable improvement overall without question. I never ran Vista (at least not on my own system), so my opinion and experience are not colored by it at all.

>Release something that is a complete pile of crap...Then release something that is 'ok' but not all that great...<
Of course, I don't think Microsodt actually did that; I think Vista was simply a misstep, nothing more or less. No conspiratory marketing ploy, LOL

[bdaughtry]

Agreed. Win 7 is better than Vista. But, is it better than XP? No, it is not for most people. And, therefore Microsoft is going to be in the same boat next year.......tons of XP users still using XP. They will have the benefit on not having so many angry Vista users however. But, most people will balk at upgrading without a compelling reason to do so.....and thus far, there is not one.

[BrendanK]

>But, most people will balk at upgrading without a compelling reason to do so.....and thus far, there is not one.

Well, there isn't a compelling reason to buy anything new when the old version is working fine, but in this case, one good point is that people who are in the market for something new won't do their shoping with the same misconceptions as with Vista. (Which is actually a prety good software now that they've issed a service pack to fix the release problems, and everyone else has improved their drivers.)

And there are some nice additions compaired to XP. Vista's speech recognition is a big improvement compaired to the one from Office.

[touristguy87]

Better still, compare 7 with Linux and see how it holds up!

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[Methuss]

Yeah. Alcohol 120% is a total no-go on the beta version of Windows 7. Quite a common applicatoin too.

[Lerianis3]

Uh.... all disc mounting softwares won't work with Windows 7 or any other beta version. Daemon Tools: same thing. EVERY SINGLE TIME a new OS comes out..... Microsoft ***** with something ON PURPOSE to break disc mounting software, saying it's "only used by criminals and thieves". Now, they are about 50% right about that... but there's another 50%, like myself, who use disc-mounting for playing their LEGALLY BACKED UP discs.

[viper396]

@Lerianis3. Got any proof that they did it on purpose? Do you really think a bunch of people at Microsoft sat around in a meeting room and said "let's design Windows 7 to purposely break disc mounting software"? That's just stupid.

The OS has changed. Changes mean some things will break, especially anything that hooks directly into the kernel or other low level subsystems that disc mounting and disc emulation software rely upon.

[BrendanK]

Ahem, the last paragraph:

Microsoft did note that there are always a class of applications that run very close to the operating system--things like security software--that have to be tweaked for a new version. That will also be the case this time around, Microsoft said.

[tekwiz4u]

All you nay sayers need to stop the hate and give Windows 7 a shot!! Being negative on an beta OS does not help its progress to evolve. If you want Windows to succeed, help the developers improve on it. They have a forum on the MS site for feedback to make it better. If you WANT to move away from XP, HELP WINDOWS 7 and make it pounce on OSX. Dont you see that they are trying to make it better by improving it capatibility/capabilities? We are coming to 10 years of XP, so we need something new. I know some dont like MS as a company in general, but lets not penalize the OS that we grew up with. Contribute to its success!

[touristguy87]

No, we don't, and neither do you!

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[drbyte]

That's all dandy, but I just hope Windows 7 will address memory usage better than XP does. I have 4gb or ram on xp pro 32bit (only 3gig seen of course) and when enough programs are open (photoshop, dreamweaver, pidgin, skype, firefox), even with a gig and a half of ram are still available to the system, windows won't let any more programs or folders open. Sux. Please get it right in windows 7.

[Lerianis3]

Excuse me? I don't think that is Windows doing that. I think that is the Adobe products blocking things from being opened because they need the memory. I have NEVER heard of Windows XP itself blocking things from getting opened.... never.

[Toulinwoek]

I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, especially if you use the 64-bit version. I don't know if I have ever used that exact combination of apps, though I do have all of them. I have found that typically "heavy" programs sail noticeably smoother in Win7, even running several simultaneously.

[viper396]

it's easy to always blame windows but Windows isn't the cause of your problem. If apps won't open you probable should make an effort investigating which app or driver you have installed thats causing it.

[touristguy87]

"That's all dandy, but I just hope Windows 7 will address memory usage better than XP does. I have 4gb or ram on xp pro 32bit (only 3gig seen of course) and when enough programs are open (photoshop, dreamweaver, pidgin, skype, firefox), even with a gig and a half of ram are still available to the system, windows won't let any more programs or folders open."

This is an old, old old old Windows problem and you are confusing free resources for free memory. Or is it the other way around. First, 32 bit OSes generally will not use memory above 3GB because the upper 1GB is reserved for system address space, that is where i/o cards have their i/o addresses, and Windows like many other OSes will set aside large blocks of ram above 3GB for itself, in managing the hardware. This is why many motherboards don't support 4gb of ram at all, only 3GB or even 2GB. But your problem is more of a problem with free resources not free memory and there are tools to manage this, in Windows, have been around for a long time.

Still I would suggest switching to a 64 bit version of Linux and running XP or whatever in a virtual manager, like suns' xvmVirtual Box. Then you can just pop the drive out and upgrade it later to another system without any worries, when you are ready to cross the 4GB limit. You can run as many instances of Windows as you like in as many virtual machines as your hardware will support.

[drbyte]

Toulinwoek , that's good to hear :-) That's my only real gripe with Windows.

Do a google search and you'll see it's a common occurrence in xp pro with heavy users who have plenty of ram installed. It just stops using ram properly after a certain point, even when there's plenty.

What advantages are their in 64 bit environment?

[bdaughtry]

>> What advantages are their in 64 bit environment?

A whole lot of 32 bit apps that will no longer run.

[contentcreator--2008]

64-bit can use as much memory as you've got. And it's inherently a bit faster due to different instruction set. 32-bit is obsolete for pro use.

64-bit is standard on most computers in stores (ie Best Buy, Circuit City RIP) these days.

[celticbrewer]

"A whole lot of 32 bit apps that will no longer run. "

Really? 95% of my apps on V64 are 32 bit and they're running perfectly. Where did you come up with that "fact"?

[odubtaig]

It's not strictly true that 64Bit has a different instruction set, it has additions but these don't make any difference in speed.

What is does have is the ability to handle double length floats and long ints natively and handle them in one go instead of having to break them up across registers, 64Bit pointers and double the number of xmm registers.

Anything that doesn't take advantage of this might run slower in a 64Bit O/S though. It's dependent on a lot of factors but there is a certain overhead in the upgrade. It's also the case that 32Bit programs will have to run within the 4 Gig limit (PAE isn't considered worth the overhead to circumvent this on a 64Bit system).

[DrtyDogg]

bdaughtry: About the only 32 bit apps I've encoutered that won't run on Vista 64 are ones that are dependant on 32 bit drivers. Hint: If you require a piece of hardware that only offers 32 bit drivers, don't purchase a 64 bit Operating system.

[contentcreator--2008]

@odubtaig

x64 has twice has many integer registers, that is a major difference that is directly responsible for a speed improvement. Net improvement is order of 10%

[touristguy87]

The advantages of a 64-bit environment is that it gives you even more memory to run Windows in a virtual machine!

Break the chain of submission, and go with a real OS like Linux. Use Suns' vxVirtualBox to run whatever version of Windows that you want...as many versions as your hardware can support!

[odubtaig]

Integer registers? I see binary registers and integer or float instructions but no 'integer registers'. No such thing.

That asides, you're right, I'd quite forgotten about those. Can't say I've done a lot of Assembly for EM-64T/X86_64. Still not sure I'd count the ESP and EBP as usable.

But that more or less reinforces my point that it's a lot more to do with the registers than any additions to the instruction set and R8(D)-R15(D) as well as XMM8-XMM15 are just registers. I think once I get back to doing 3D stuff I'd really like to have a go at those extra scalars, just being able to do a matrix multiplication without resorting to the stack would be nice.