Microsoft exec: Windows 7 is no service pack

Microsoft is attempting a challenging task with its positioning of Windows 7. The company is trying to make the case that the product won't break things that work with Vista, but at the same time trying to convince users its a worthy upgrade.

Bill Veghte, the senior vice president of the Windows business put it this way in a speech to investors on Wednesday:

Bill Veghte, Microsoft's senior vice president for the Windows Business

(Credit: Microsoft)

"It's a minor release when it comes to incompatibilities," he said, adding that most applications and hardware that worked with Vista should work just fine in Windows 7. At the same time, Veghte tried to make the case that Windows 7 will nonetheless be a significant step forward.

"There are plenty of great things in there that make it much more significant than a service pack," Veghte said. In addition to improving some of the annoyances of past releases, such as slow boot time, Veghte pointed to new features that make it easier to connect to both home and business networks.

"In Windows 7 there's a capability called Direct Access," Veghte said, that allows users to more easily connect to their corporate network. "You no longer have to VPN in," he said.

Windows 7 also adds an improved taskbar for managing multiple windows as well as support for multitouch--assuming one buys a touch-screen computer. But it is clear that one of Microsoft's biggest challenges with Windows 7 will be to convince users that it is an important upgrade.

With Windows 7, Microsoft is adding support for multitouch, demonstrated last month at the WinHEC conference.

(Credit: Ina Fried/CNET News)

One indication of just how neatly Microsoft is trying to thread this needle is the fact that the server unit is saying its version of Windows 7 will be a minor release. The product that had been code-named "Windows 7 Server" is getting the designation Windows Server 2008 R2. The "R2" designation has in the past been used for very minor updates to Microsoft products.

Veghte was asked about things like how many versions of Windows 7 there will be and about pricing, but offered no new detail there. The company released a pre-beta version of Windows 7 for developers at two conferences earlier this year, with a broader beta scheduled for early next year, followed by a release candidate. There are some indications that January may be the timing for the beta.

As for the final release, Microsoft's internal goal has been to get it out next year, although its public target has been for release within three years of Vista's January 2007 mainstream launch. Veghte appeared to give even more wiggle room on Wednesday, though, saying its goal was a release to manufacturing (as opposed to a formal launch) by January 2010.

Note: The dates in the last paragraph were off by a year when I first posted but have since been corrected.

[john55440]

Will Win7s "new improved UAC" be added to Vista, in a future Service Pack?

[ZetaZeta_]

I've always wondered why they don't just add the superbar part of explorer, enchanced UAC, and whatever the else they're doing to 7 to Vista in a Service Pack. I mean, it's just changing around some software.<br />I think the real reason 7 is coming out is to ditch the name "Vista" since that's what M$'s real problem is: PR. Not actual software issues at this point.

[jessiethe3rd]

It's a company and they are trying to make money.

[itaysm]

hmmm. i think the dates got mixed up. Vista was released on January 2007, no? and i guess the goal for RTM of windows 7 is January 2010, not 2009.

[Ina Fried]

Yep. They did. Thanks for spotting. Fixed now. <br />-Ina

[Mr. Dee]

Vista RTMed November 16, 2007. It was available for businesses at the end of November 2006. I think Microsoft is aiming to have Windows 7 ready by October 2009 so OEM's can have it on new PC's by late November '09 for the Christmas holidays. The progress I am seeing in 6801 and the improvements I am seeing in builds demoed at Microsoft conferences especially the latest 695x release shows Microsoft wants to have this ready very early. Too bad it won't make it out before Snow Leopard.

[globalist_agenda]

How many companies use Server 2008 vs. 2003? I haven't seen stats on this. Perhaps the new 2008 R2 designation is meant reassure customers that it's now safe to move off 2003.

[rcrusoe]

Safe to move off S2003? For the vast majority of Windows users there is no reason to ever upgrade the OS, as long as it's still working for you (and supported).<br /><br />Windows is Windows. If 2000 or XP is working for you there is no reason to change. ASAIC Windows 7 is Vista with lipstick, Microsoft's hope of an end run around Vista's failure to launch.

[dwinks]

Server 2008 is VASTLY superior to 2003. Read-only domain controllers, built-in virtualization, modular components, better stability, faster network shares, immensely better network stack, etc etc etc. I am not a fan of MS in any way, but as far as servers go, 2008 is the best. It's fast, stable, and (thanks to Windows 90% market share) compatible.<br /><br />I know of quite a few VERY large companies that switched to 2008 BEFORE it was "officially" released...though mostly on domain controllers.

[SNS5]

In this economy it's difficult to think about upgrading and paying for a new operating system considering we just bought Vista.

[Brian]

Well, that's what you get for buying Vista (you had plenty of time to read the reports online all about it for months prior it it's release).<br /><br />Since I switched to the Mac at the time Vista was released, I am planning on upgrading to Snow Leopard - an important new operating system that is focused on becoming the worlds most stable operating system.<br /><br />And while the economy is on everyone's minds these days, technology is doing very well in this hostile financial climate.

[menehune9]

**sigh** Another option added to "which OS to add" to your new computer purchase. <br /><br />Why is Microsoft so obsessed with the "Build it and they will come" mentality?

[ZetaZeta_]

The problem is that due to the misconceptions surrounding Vista, a lot of people haven't upgraded or are losing faith in Microsoft. Too many mistakes can lead to trouble. What 7 is probably trying to do is be a good release from the getgo (instead of slowly getting better like Vista has) so that people will have a little more faith in Microsoft. They're making 7 so that people don't LOSE that "Build it and they will come" mentality, although in my opinion, a lot of people already have.

[dhavleak]

I don't think MS is obsessed at all with the "build it and they will come" mentality at all. They're just going about their business of always making improvements to their OS, as will every single OS maker. I wouldn't expect Apple to stop working on Snow Leopard because Leopard is "good enough" or Ubuntu to stop working on 9.04 because 8.10 was "good enough" -- the day they do that, they're as good as extinct.

[Renegade Knight]

@ZetaZeta Anymore the most misconceptions I see about Vista are the folks who think that those who think that Vista doesn?t work suffer from misconceptions. <br /> <br />Never have I fought so hard with a version of Windows to make it do what it should. That?s be an OS. When it works I prefer it over XP. However I prefer things that work as they should over things that don?t. It?s as simple as that.

[kelmon]

@dhavleak<br /><br />Well, Apple could cease development of OS X if they decide that the OS is perfect since they derive their revenue mostly from sales of hardware rather than software. I don't think they will since they can use a new OS release as a means to drive new hardware sales but ultimately it is the hardware that is important to Apple rather than the software.

[rajsu123]

Having seen the improvements to the graphics subsystem at the WinHec2007 just those alone are worth upgrading for not just for looks but the ability to get some of your hadware back. <br />Memory Hogs like Windows Aero have been dramatically improved to have 1/3rd the memory footprint And their new Font Rendering brings Windows graphics into the 21st century.

[MSSlayer]

Paying for incompetent programming.<br /><br />Any improvements to reduce the bloat should be free.<br /><br />MS is just fleecing you.

[Me--]

to msslay...: and who says stuff need to be free, an apple fanboy?? if you hate MS, that's fine... at least dont post comments that you pull out of your a$$

[dhavleak]

@MSSlayer<br /><br />1. What bloat?<br /><br />2. What if you didn't purchase Vista in the first place?<br /><br />3. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Stop trolling though.

[Renegade Knight]

Improved Areo. Should that be a Vista Service Pack Fix or merely an update?

[dwinks]

@MSSlayer<br /><br />Perhaps it was "incompetence", but I think it was more likely MS overestimating the willingness of people to actually spend more money on the hardware than they do on software. 99.99% of all "vista is slow" complaints are from people running a $250 OS on a $200 computer.<br /><br />I would prefer them spend time making things "better" rather than wasting it on reducing memory usage. Add some more customize options to explorer, a built-in workspace switcher, etc. People just need to quit being cheap idiots, and spend $40 to upgrade to at least 2gigs of ram, don't make MS spend time coding around this.<br /><br />Not to mention there hasn't been ANY annoucement of pricing or versions, so far all you know, they could improve it and do a "all versions of vista can upgrade to Windows 7 for $100", and make windows 7 modular like server 2008 and only have 1 version, like OS X.<br /><br />$200 for stand-alone, $100 for upgrade, single version. That would pretty much shut up at least half of the apple-fanboys.

[NoImNotKidding]

/sarcasm<br />Oh yeah Apple's got tons of fanboys that would spend several hundred dollars on a LIMITED EDITION *scoff* copy of a POS operating system that has the CEO's signature on it... fools.<br /><br />Oh my gosh! Wait! That was the WinDoze fanboys.<br />/sarcasm<br /><br />Seriously, it doesn't take ad hominem attacks to defend against insipid comments like "Apple sucks" or "MS sucks" -- you just ignore them, knowing that 95% of the readership here will understand those people to be fools. Vista was a turd and everyone in the world knows it. Here's hoping Windows 7 gets MS back to where we SHOULD have been nearly two years ago.<br /><br />Plus, touch support looks NICE!

[irperez]

We will be moving to Server 2008 in a few months... We feel its even safer than 2003.

[yuval08]

For me dual monitor remote desktop does the job for me, when I hear that it comes in Windows 7 I got so excited, I can finally work @ home from my companies workstation more comfortable

[Penguinisto]

Hype... lovely. I'll wait until the public betas start firming up before passing judgment on whether Windows 7 would be worth the upgrade price (in money, hardware usage, time, compatibility, etc), thanks.<br /><br />@menehune9: They have that attitude because it has served them very well in the 1990s. Whether they realize that the environment has changed radically since then is another story.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Penguinisto wrote: <br /> <br />"I'll wait until the public betas start firming up before passing judgment" <br /> <br />Wait, what? When did you start doing this? It's a welcome change for you if it is true. Keeping an open mind will help greatly. Up to this point you have been very quick to pass judgement on products you do not own, use, or plan to use at any later date.

[Penguinisto]

Sorry Dan, but it's always been my habit to wait until the product has some verifiable specs and measurements before passing judgment.<br /><br />...and no amount of hype from a MSFT talking head (or any corp's talking head) will change that.

[CrashPad63]

Penguin why in the world would you care. Youve stated you dont use Windows, dont like it, and can ever see yourself trying it. So what the F### is your opinions worth here? <br />Just shutup, sitdown and dont speak again.

[Penguinisto]

I don't use it at home. I am stuck with using and supporting it @ work, so yeah... I have a lot of interest in how hard or easy life will be once this creature finds itself RTM.<br /><br />Now go back to your table please - the adults are talking here.

[RompStar_420]

My friend just got a new laptop at work, they get new equipment every 3 years. Nice laptop, top of the line business laptop. It was pre-installed with Vista Business, it running after booting in, doing thing more, no browser nothing just idleing, it took up 50% of the RAM, like a GIG+.<br /><br />This is ridicules!!!, it's very slugish and slow, needless to say there was an option to downgrade to XP, but he instead installed the latest version of Ubuntu and then I think he installed VirtualBox and install WIndows through there, for the few times that he will need to use it.<br /><br />All the people at work are switching to Ubuntu, it's freaking great!!!!!!!<br /><br />If Windows 7 is like Vista, then forget it.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Before blaming Windows for slow performance, check to see what utilities and third party add-ons are running that the laptop OEM's are very fond of running on top of the OS for their own special features. <br /> <br />Try a clean install without all the bloat that those same OEM's tag on and you may be quite surprised by the difference.

[YankeePoodle]

That $199 laptop your friend brought for black friday? You get what you pay for.

[wolivere]

Kind of odd that a company with a set refresh cycle, would use a preinstalled image. And, would allow an employee to install what ever he wants on it. Most companies, have prebuilt images of there own, either preloaded for them by the manufacturer. Or reimage at the office. <br /> <br />Now our network team here use to be huge Ubuntu fan's then 8.10 came out. Some went back to 8.04 others went back to XP. Now when I say that, I speak of there home machines not the office systems. <br /> <br />8.10 just sucks

[DrtyDogg]

does that GIG+ of RAM do you any good when not being used?<br /><br />Short answer: NO<br /><br />I really like the pre-fetch built into Vista, 4Gigs of Ram when I need it, but when I'm not directly using it I get a performance boost to launching my most used programs. Win Win, stop complaining.

[gggg sssss]

All the people at work? You, your freind and your mother in her basement? EVERYONE ( well except your freind) knows that vista takes a gig just to play solitaitre. That is why God and Dell sell 3 gb of memory for $50.And if they are buying Vista Buisness, they are running an AD domain. Since when does Ubuntu support AD? Or AD accept a Ubuntu machine? LOL

[jessiethe3rd]

Before you hope on the bash Windows Vista train that seems to go around and around in here think about what resources are being used up by WHAT? If the machine is loaded with OEM software then you are probably going to get a dragged system. If you want to work in Ubuntu that's fine - just don't come in here thinking that because you saw Windows was running slow you think it justifies a massive switch to some linux OS. That's like someone going to test drive a car expecting sporty performance however they end up putting their 500 pound mother in the back seat.

[RompStar_420]

Vista is crap!

[celticbrewer]

whatever dude. Fixing my friend's XP machine last night reminded me how much better Vista is.

[Vegaman_Dan]

As is your comment and will be treated with the respect deserved.

[Renegade Knight]

True enough. Good eye candy. Like a Corvette in a Wax Museum. Looks Good. It stops there. <br /> <br />@celticbrewer. Fixing my Vista intsalls with XP reminds me of 2 things. How much Nicer the Vista interface is, and how much better XP just works. Man I'd love to move on with life, but Vista just keeps getting in the way.

[Mark_Anderson]

Once again, Renegade Knight - as I have asked you to do so in previous topics - please state the specific issues you have with Vista.<br /><br />I'll not hold my breath waiting.

[boe_d]

I find the "vista is crap" self-evident and no need to go into specifics. If someone said to me manure is crap, I don't think I'd say could you give me more details on what you mean by that remark? I've experienced crap and Vista is it.

[Mark_Anderson]

"I find the "vista is crap" self-evident and no need to go into specifics." <br /> <br />I think that says all we need to know about your credibility.

[Dragon_Myr]

If Windows 7 is just a minor release, then there's no sense paying tons of money to get it. You're essentially just buying an OS that can handle multi-touch. For everything Microsoft improves, they normally screw something else up. I know Microsoft says they've fixed up a bunch of stuff, but they have a long way to go. I think I'll wait for Windows 8 or XP 2.

[sanjayb]

If MS charges the same price for Windows 7 as they did for Vista then count me out. That is total robbery.

[ewilen]

'"In Windows 7 there's a capability called Direct Access," Veghte said, that allows users to more easily connect to their corporate network. "You no longer have to VPN in," he said.'<br /><br />Yes, you do. Direct Access is built on IPsec, a VPN technology. This is simply Microsoft's standard obfuscatory approach to marketing, and it's a shame that journalists allow it to pass without critical comment.

[techman21]

VPN by any other name...is still VPN!

[bama3]

Please understand the terms you are using. IPSec is a protocol for establishing secure communication between tow points. it is very different from a VPN. A VPN is a network that is isolated and requires some type of authentication to gain access. <br /> <br />Now from the WinHEC presentations and demo, the solutions is a lot different than today's VPN. The machine appears to always be on the corporate network.

[FellowConspirator]

Yep, it's still a VPN. From the user standpoint, though, they need only login once and it retrieves a key for the VPN login, save it local, and reuses transparently on subsequent connections. In some ways, it's like how the process is handled on the Mac and Linux with their certificate vaults (Keychain or Wallet), but the MS implementation can be a little more transparent to the end-user.<br /><br />In typical MS style, it doesn't behave nicely with non-MS clients and other VPN software. If you've neither of those, however, and already have some PKI in place, you're good to go.

[TheNetAvenger]

Ok, as someone already pointed out, you are confusing terms and try to use that to demonstrate one this is the same as the other. Sadly IPSec and VPN are NOT the same thing. <br /> <br />The real news about this is, you don't even seem to realize or get... <br /> <br />With Direct Access, users won't have to secure to the office servers, and limit all external connectivity 'through' the office servers. When you VPN, you are then using the office network as you are there locally, so even your internet access is directed through the office LAN/WAN. (This topic is actually more complex than just this, but trying to be brief.) <br /> <br />Additionally, the way computers are handled on the office domain are designed around the mobile market that a lot of companies deal with. Today you have users with laptops and dealing with VPN and other issues when they are in and out of the office and remote versus local and also dealing with 'offline' issues and syncing. <br /> <br />So computers are now all treated as remote 'in concept' even when they are at the office or at home logged into a company server, or a low bandwidth dial up, or even offline sitting in a park with no Internet. The domain policies and experience the users get will be consistent no matter WHERE they are. <br /> <br />This is what is important, and more important than just doing away with old VPN practices. <br /> <br />And these are some BIG STEPS...

[inachu]

I would like to have the idea that we would install DOS 6.22 as an application inside of windows 7 or also run Windows for Workgroups as an application without the need for third party virtualization. To be truly backward compatible so that people can upgrade their systems would a god send to all.

[blevdog]

inachu <br />You can do that in a corporate environment through a program called the Microsoft Desktop Optimization Pack (MDOP). Inside this software bundle there are two technologies that accomplish this. App-V for application virtualization and MED-V for Desktop Virtualization. You can check out more of it here: <br />http://www.microsoft.com/windows/enterprise/products/mdop.aspx <br />Hope this helps.

[Dalkorian]

W7 is a marketing ploy to try to get out of the bad press surrounding fista. It's fista sp3 and nothing more, or "mojave sp3" for the less educated fanbois. <br /><br />I wouldn't contaminate my worst enemies computer with this mess. OK, maybe I would on my WORST enemies computer ...

[boe_d]

I was going to pretty much say that Windows 7 is Mojave 2.0! <br /> <br />I agree that Vista is a tragic OS. Not just because it is slow but because Ballmer refuses to admit it - he runs around with his hands over his ears shouting "naah naaah NAAAH, I can't hear you" when there is bad press (when isn't there?) about Vista. <br /> <br />I think everyone at MS is afraid to say anything to the emporer for fear of getting a chair thrown at them so the idiot emporer doesn't know he has no clothes.

[Mark_Anderson]

*Yawn*

[Bytemaster]

I don't know about you, but they better not charge me full price for upgrading Vista to Windows 7. Especially with server being called R2 and the kernal being 6.1. I know they did from 2000 to XP, but that seems to have been a much more significant upgrade.

[dhavleak]

from bytemaster -- "I don't know about you, but they better not charge me full price for upgrading Vista to Windows 7."<br /><br />Dude -- MS has always had a discounted rate for upgrades -- whether it's XP to Vista, ME/98 to XP, 95 to 98, or whatever it might be.

[dwinks]

@dhavleak<br /><br />That may be the case, but often it required a previous installation of windows on the disk, etc. Even though I have owned at least 1 copy of windows for pretty much every version (ME excluded, as 2000pro was obviously so much better), every time I "upgraded" I just forked out a few extra bucks and bought a full (oem usually) version so I wouldn't have to deal with installion hassles.

[dadsgravy]

Windows 7 is going to be there best os since xp. With the features that are supposed to be in it, it's going to make multi tasking, working and general use tons better. After using os x at home and xp at work, windows 7 is going to be a dream come true. XP needs to die. It's old and has out lived it's usefulness. <br /><br />It's just unfortunate that windows 7 is still so far away. I haven't been this excited about Microsoft in years.

[Renegade Knight]

Replace 7 with Vista and you have the same sales pitch that they gave with Vista. <br /> <br />7's selling point is "Ok we fixed Vista" They should fix Vista and restore confidence in it. If they can make 7 work they can make Vista work. If they can't fix Vista, then they can't build 7. <br /> <br />Microsoft needs to start paying attention to simple logical detals like that. ME was the "whoops" did they learn the lesson? Not if they don't fix Vista.

[Renegade Knight]

I forgot to mention. Vista is fixed when I can install it on any of my "Vista Capable" computers with Vista Support from the OEM (Drivers and whatnot) and "It Just Works".

[Mark_Anderson]

So, once again, Renegade Knight, tell us what's wrong specifically with Vista.<br /><br />Or are you just content to remain the king of unspecific generalisations?

[boe_d]

"If they can't fix Vista, then they can't build 7" Lazarus had a much better chance of being raised from the dead - he was only dead for a few days at most. Vista was still born and its stinkin' rotting carcass has been lying around for over a year.

[Mark_Anderson]

Still no answers then, boe? <br /> <br />Why am I not surprised?

[SteamChip]

HURAYY! No need to upgrade to ViStink, Just wait for Windows 7!!!

[jtjt145]

Micro$oft at its best again: ************. The ambivalence shown by M$ top executives as to whether their new O/S is a minor or a major upgrade is telling. Even the version number of this 'new' Windows 7 is ambiguous was proven not logical by online readers backtracking historical Window's kernel version numbers. Well, after the Vista fiasco this may indeed be a hard sell for M$, I for one, can't really see anyone rushing to get it. <br />Never mind, that eventually the new Windows 7 will of course find uptake, because M$ will put the thumbscrews onto the hardware vendors as usual, so that it will be more expensive to buy a piece of hardware installed with a cost-free alternative to Windows. However, it is nice to watch that Micro$oft appears to be in pains of how to sell their new and no doubt EXPENSIVE O/S. Get ready for a major M$ marketing onslaught over the next year, people.<br />And what was that, why we all should have to buy the new O/S: Direct Access for networking, touch-screen capability and couple of aesthetic improvements on the screen? GET REAL! GET LINUX!<br />J R Menzies

[boe_d]

"Even the version number of this 'new' Windows 7 is ambiguous" Well they sure as heck can't call it Vista 2.0 - who would ever buy Vista?

[Fire Balls]

I have seen many companies moving to server 2008 It doesn't break the compatibility's of a 2003 network and it is far more stable then server 2003. Also the interface is user friendly and there are enough new features to make it worth it but not so many changes as to make you rework your network

[boe_d]

I support both Windows 2008 and 2003 (as well as previous versions). I don't find it any more stable than 2003 - perhaps that is because I've NEVER had a 2003 server crash on me but I only support about 50 of them so maybe you have more servers than I do. I find 2008 a perfectly good OS but I don't find it more user friendly - just try to modify your IP address - far too many steps. Where the heck is the up folder in explorer? <br /> <br />I will say though that the remote desktop seems faster for some reason although you essentially have one less session available unless you go to terminal server licensing as they count the console session as an active session! You can mod the registry so you can have 2 people remoting but then the person at the actual server can't access it at the same time.

[dwinks]

@ boe_d<br /><br />Windows key+R -&gt; type ncpa.cpl &#38; hit enter-&gt; right click -&gt; properties -&gt; select ipv4 or ipv6 depending on situation -&gt; edit and save<br /><br />Aside from having the option to choose ipv6 (which xp doesn't have), this is EXACTLY the same process used in XP. Of course, if you are using the mouse to click click click your way there, then yes, Vista takes a few more clicks, but any admin worth their salt should be using keyboard shortcuts anyway.