Microsoft's Surface pricier than anticipated
Microsoft will give those at next week's Professional Developer Conference a chance to do more than just write software for the Surface. They'll also have the opportunity to buy a developer version of the machine.
The good news is that PDC attendees will get a 10 percent discount. However, the bad news is the machine will set them back $13,500 even with the discount.
Microsoft's Mark Bolger demonstrates the Surface's multitouch user interface.
(Credit: Ina Fried/CNET News.com)The cost for developers is higher because it includes five software developer kit licenses. However, even commercial customers are paying $12,500 for the Surface. That's above the $5,000 to $10,000 initial cost that Microsoft said to expect when it announced the Surface back in May 2007.
"We're not far off from our initial target," Surface computing unit general manager Brad Carpenter said in an interview on Thursday, "but we would like to get the price down. Over time, with economies of scale and (higher sales volume), the prices will go down."
Its price tag was among the reasons that Robbie Bach, Microsoft's entertainment division president, thought about killing the Surface as a commercial product, although it survived with Bill Gates as a strong backer of the effort.
Still, even if they can't afford one, developers will get plenty of face time with the Surface at PDC. There's a session on developing for the Surface as well as three hands-on labs.
As first noted by CNET News, developers at the PDC will be the first to get their hands on a new software developer kit for the Surface. Microsoft had been limiting developer access to a handful of pre-selected partners.
Not all of the 6,000 developers at the show will be able to get the newly-available software developer kit, Carpenter said. Microsoft is capping things at about 1,200, but that should cover at least all those who attend one of the sessions, he said.
Microsoft is also planning a "scavenger hunt" at PDC, where developers can place a special tag on each of the 16 Surface units scattered throughout the show. Even though the number of Surface machines in commercial use is low, Carpenter said that now is the time to get a broader range of developers writing programs for the product.
"We believe the opportunities are endless," Carpenter said. "By reaching out to the developer community at PDC, we want to tap into their innovation, their creativity."
Microsoft also will talk at the show about the overlap between developing for Surface and developing multitouch applications for Windows. Windows 7 will support multitouch gestures, though there will be some divergence between the Windows 7 and Surface implementations.
The developer paths will converge more with Windows Presentation Foundation version 4, "which will be a little after Windows 7," Carpenter said.
During her years at CNET News, Ina Fried has changed beats several times, changed genders once, and covered both of the Pirates of Silicon Valley. These days, most of her attention is focused on Microsoft. E-mail Ina. 
I don't call charging developers $13,500 "reaching out". This platform will never get traction until it becomes affordable for the creative garage developers who are the only ones capable of coming out with something truly innovative and game changing.
The rest of the cost is for pc case and the huge LCD.
I say its a rip off and buy your own lcd and use the Wii kit to turn your lcd into a touch screen
Otherwise folks, like I said before: niche market. Only folks with more money than common sense will bother.
/P
I'm glad you made that distinction clear.
That said, I find it hilarious that it would cost $10k, when I can build a set-up with a large touchscreen that would cost quite a lot less, and not have to shell out for CALs while doing it.
You're trying to change the subject again when you've been caught intentionally spreading misinformation to deceive others. It's blatantly obvious to anyone reading these comments on a regular basis.
Previously you tried comparing Windows Surface to the Apple iPhone. That's right folks, he was comparing a large kiosk system meant for up to four people to use simulataneously to a *cell phone*. And he was serious about it.
Yes, of course it is a niche product. The fact that you keep trying to compare it to unrelated products only makes it even more clear that you will say or do anything possible to spread negative commentary about all things Microsoft with or without any sort of evidence to back them up.
/P
"If you two want to whine about Mac comparisons, go yell at your compatriot up there named "csg7".
SInce you were the one to bring it up, and now you are calling that 'whining', I would have thought you would back up your own words and comments, but you chose not to. You didn't change the subject- I was wrong about that and I apologize. You simply went back on your word instead.
Here's a tip- if you make a crazy statement like comparing an iPhone or PowerMac to a Surface unit....
BACK IT UP.
Don't run away and try to distance yourself from your own comments. You made the comparison, then chastise others for questioning it. A truthful person would have made the comment and then stood by it.
You didn't.
compudoc318: I understand conceptual work fully. I previously worked with an R&D department, and couldn't swing a dead cat in the lab without it bouncing off of something that was bound to be initially expensive, but would cost pennies to produce once a fab was tooled-up to reel them off by thousands/hour.
That said, seriously - the tech to produce the same large touch-friendly surface can be built at home for less than $500, with spare parts (and yes, I am serious). The software is already out there, and costs nothing (you can even get the source code to it). Someone posted their step-by-step screen project online, though admittedly I'd have to hunt it down... it wasn't sexy, but it worked very well.
Now, given all of that, where's the $13k in value in MSFT's project? To be fair, they did have to squeeze it down a bit and not use a projector, which still means there's roughly (IMPO) $10k left over that's unaccounted for.
The fact that its just a $800 Windows Vista PC with Microsoft Touch technology, is insulting to me. Any R & D invested in this has already been recouped through Windows Tablet technology, so for a first time product, it does not have to be so overly expensive.
Microsoft, drop the cost of the Surface to US $800. That is what it is really worth. Stop trying to look for the next big thing by price gouging developers on things that are not gonna make it big. Your belief in over charging for the initial release of products time and time again has backfired: Media Center, Tablet PC are true examples of this. The Surface must not be expensive, it is ridiculous, if I was the government I would give you a big slap on the hand and command you to drop the price immediately. Its even disgusting when you think about it in these rough economic times.
are u an idiot or were u just not looking at the picture and reading the article closely ... god I hate when people get all worked up over something they do not understand I can understand a short statement but not three paragraphs.
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Thanks inick500, that was the funniest thing I've read all day. Please tell me you intended that irony there and it wasn't lost on you, I would feel even better knowing I was laughing with someone instead of at them.
/P
These are all locations that the Surface is targeted for. It is not for a home user and not meant to replace any existing technology. Simply because you cannot see the possibilities doesn't mean that others have such a closed mind.
Oh yeah, no one. Sorry.
"Sure, Dan... like everyone wants to have massive kiosks that you can scribble on with your fingers. :/ "
If you so choose to dabble in fingerpaint methods, I certainly won't belittle you for doing so. Creativity in any medium is a good thing.
I once again strongly advise you to research the sujbect before you gripe about it. You speak from no experience or exposure. You have nothing to base your comments on. Go out and read up on it. Find one in your area and try it out. Get some experience with the interface..
I have never flown to the moon before, but if people used your standard of comprehension of any subject that you apply, then that would make me a master of every Apollo mission.
Really, educate yourself about a subject before you go off on it. Or have an open mind. Either way and you'll come out a winner regardless of what your eventual opinion or decision will be.
Right now with the closed mind filled with hatred and rage against all things Microsoft, you will only be a loser. And that's really quite sad.
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/02/multitouch_table_experime.html
IOW: Folks have already replicated this at home and have begun building them without multi-billion-dollar budgets.
So kindly STHU and sit down.
Can I ask how would you know if this makes sense at a corporate level?
Have you ever been involved in the kiosk business or a business that makes use of kiosks?
I have. They can be significant drivers of revenue if they are used correctly. One of the most difficult aspects of the business is figuring out how to get people to use them, and, once they start to use them, how to keep them using them until the interaction goal is reached. Now, does a device like this make sense for hotel checkout? No. Of course, not. Does it make sense in other areas? Yeah, I think there is some promise depending on how the application is implemented.
"@Dan: http://tinker.it/now/2007/02/28/multitouch-table-experiment/
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2007/02/multitouch_table_experime.html
IOW: Folks have already replicated this at home and have begun building them without multi-billion-dollar budgets.
So kindly STHU and sit down. "
Fantastic. When challenged to back up your comments with facts and evidence, you once again trot out.. what is it? Oh yes, BLOGS. You know, those opinion sites and non-professional (ie non-vetted ) sources. You haven't done anything to explain your comments other than readind someone else's comments and opinion. You haven't had any experience with the subject at all, yet you feel compelled to comment blindly like an ignorant bigot in a room full of books who refuses to even open a bookr because he doesn't like the color of the cover.
You still haven't given your list of parts to PROVE that you can build this for less than $500. Are you going back on your word or are you just going to conveniently 'forget' you made that claim? A lot of people here have seen it already, so you're out of luck trying to make it go away or pretend it never happened.
I called your bluff. It's up to you to put up or shut up, essentially.
I will kindly '****' when you stop telling lies, sir. You have only to stop that. It's not hard, really. Stop making stuff up and you won't have people calling you on it. You bring it all onto yourself.
Everyone else: I'm sorry that you have to see this sort of thing. It shouldn't bother me, but when I see Penguinisto blatantly lying and trying to pretend he's a professional when I know the truth, it just grinds my gears. I prefer to say when the Emperor Penguinisto is wearing no clothes.
and I don't buy that the price will go down due to economy of scale. will they sell millions? (no), thousands? hundreds? or...? anyhow, interesting technology, but for the moment that's all it is, IMO.
\"Well, it's not hard at all to build an analog of one in your garage with less than $500 in parts and tools. "
You're on. I'll take you up on that challenge. I'll look forward to seeing your new Surface machine built by you in your garage. I think you'll find it a bit harder than you think though. You'll need a projection unit that can display the screen size necessary in such a short focal length. You'll also need a high end Pentium running Vista with 16Gb of memory and 8Tb of drive space. You'll need to make sure you have a UPS inside. You'll need a dust free enclosure. You'll need redundant power supplies and hard drives. You'll need a weighted base with mounting to keep the unit stable when in place. You'll need a 1" thick piece of tempered glass cut to shape and the bottom side ground to a prescription surface to match up with the projector unit.
Go right ahead. $500 is your own self imposed limit. You have to do all those things. If you can get the computer hardware alone for that price, you'll be doing good, but... well, you'd have to know what you're talking about first, woudln't you? I support these systems and their hardware requirements.
I'm eager to see your own Surface unit. You WILL be making one, right? You're not just telling a story or making things up, right? You made the claim that it can be done- now it's up to you to back up your own claim and do it.
Everyone else: It's at this point I expect him to toss off some comment to say he didn't make any such claim even though I've quoted it here, or change the subject, or go off on a personal attack- that would fit his pattern. If he actually goes ahead and builds his own- then that's freaking fantastic and would make for an awesome article for a magazine or enthusiasts and I wish him will in that.
You lose: http://tinker.it/now/2007/02/28/multitouch-table-experiment/l
'http://tinker.it/now/2007/02/28/multitouch-table-experiment/l"
First off, your link is wrong. But that's just a typo. I found what you were referring to. It's a pretty neat setup, I'll admit. It isn't Surface though.
1) Wrong size.
2) Wrong format
3) Wrong OS
4) Wrong product
5) Wrong hardware
6) Wrong capacity
7) Wrong features
8) Limited to one person input
9) Wrong, wrong, wrong again, Penguinisto.
I suppose you could compare the two if you believe a Ford Pinto is comparable to a Ferrari in the speed and perfomance tests. Most sane people would laugh at that comparison, but it is what you are trying to suggest. :)
Hey, I have a solar calculator... that's the same as a dual cpu G5 Macintosh, right? It must be if we use your comparison method. :)
So, would you like to try again? You still haven't taken me up on the challenge. Please provide a parts list with prices. It's really the only way you're going to save any face in this. I called your bluff, sirrah. It's up to you to back it up.
Try again. :) If you need help- I have a solar calculatoryou can have.
One problem is that they show too much of the product being used to draw. They should start showing off what it can really do.
I'm pretty sure that if one tried the Surface, ones onlook toward the product would drastically change to the positive side.
Much like the iPhone, the hardware seems neat, but doesn't really come alive until you try it in person.
ive seen mac users only use their new macs for office and itunes....wow technological breakthrough....
Then you've never used one. And I don't mean walked up, clicked a couple icons, sneered and walked away. Use one for a year and you'll never go back.
"ive seen mac users..."
Then the Mac users you've seen don't use their Macs to their full potential. OS X is a FULL Unix implementation. I manage a Windows network with one and spend no time fixing any issues, because they are few. The same can't be said for the Windblow$ systems, like todays Super-Uber-Install-It-Now-Or-Die patch that was released today.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10073951-83.html?tag=mncol;txt
A $13,500.00 70 pound table (Developer cost meaning the retail is hugely more expensive) to do something I can do on my iPhone... Bloody Brilliant.
- by David Turner October 24, 2008 8:05 AM PDT
- This thing is a little more advance then just a touch screen as everyone keeps saying.
- Like this Reply to this comment
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(63 Comments)"Surface is essentially a Windows Vista PC tucked inside a table, topped with a 30-inch reflective surface in a clear acrylic frame. A projector underneath the surface projects an image onto its underside, while five cameras in the machine's housing record reflections of infrared light from human fingertips"
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