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April 29, 2008 4:00 AM PDT

Critics slam 'GTA IV' without test drive

by Daniel Terdiman
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Many critics started complaining about the violence and sexual content in Rockstar Games' 'Grand Theft Auto IV' before even seeing the game.

(Credit: Rockstar Games)

To many in the video game industry, the two words "Jack" and "Thompson" engender horror and disgust.

Thompson, a self-appointed uber-critic of the industry, has spent the last few years railing away at games he deems too full of sex or violence. Never was he out in more force than during 2005's so-called "Hot Coffee" scandal, in which the monster hit Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was discovered to have hidden, but easily uncoverable, animations that mimicked sexual activity.

In the lead-up to the midnight Tuesday release of Rockstar Games' follow-up game, Grand Theft Auto IV, Thompson was at it again. (See GameSpot's review here: Grand Theft Auto IV (PlayStation 3).)

According to online technology news site Softpedia, Thompson wrote an e-mail to Take-Two Interactive CEO Strauss Zelnick's mother (Take-Two is Rockstar's parent company).

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"Your son last week was reported to have said the following about Grand Theft Auto IV," the letter allegedly began. "'We've already received numerous reviews, and to a one, they are perfect scores. My mom couldn't write better reviews...' Taking your son's thought, I would encourage you either to play this game or have an adroit video gamer play it for you. Some of the latter gamers are on death row, so try to find one out in the civilian population who hasn't killed someone yet."

In an e-mail to CNET News.com Monday, Thompson confirmed that he wrote the letter, but said he sent it to Strauss' attorney and not to his mother.

"I sent it to Strauss' attorney to make the point that if you drag your mother into your porn business pimping," Thompson told me by e-mail, "you had better be prepared for blowback."

There can be little doubt that the release of GTA IV will be one of the biggest events of the year in video games, both from a business and entertainment standpoint--and from the perspective of politicians, organizations, and individuals like Thompson seeking to derail the game due to what they expect to be an overabundance of violence and sex.

For example, California state Sen. Leland Yee (D-San Francisco/San Mateo), recently put out a press release in which he exhorted parents not to buy GTA IV for their kids.

"Unfortunately, the makers of Grand Theft Auto have a history of deceiving the ratings board and the public on the true content of their games," Yee said in the statement.

Indeed, Take-Two and Rockstar got into pretty serious trouble over the "Hot Coffee" scandal because Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas was originally rated "M," meaning 17-year-olds could buy it. After the scandal broke, the publishers were forced to re-rate the game as "AO" for adults only. And in June 2006, Take-Two reached an agreement with the Federal Trade Commission promising to accurately depict the contents of its games.

Last week, the Parents Television Council issued a release demanding that retailers not sell GTA IV or, at least, not make it available to children.

Some say that even the violence in 'GTA IV' comes with an accompanying message: commit the crime, do the time.

(Credit: Rockstar Games)

But after sifting through all these press releases, e-mails, statements, and demands that the world's retailers and parents run screaming from GTA IV, it's striking that none of the people behind these missives has seen the game, and thus couldn't possibly know its full contents.

Part of the problem, said Aaron Muszalski, a visual effects artist formerly with Industrial Light & Magic who teaches at the Academy of Art University in San Francisco, is that critics of games like those in the GTA series pass judgment on a very small sample of the whole game.

"When it was reported that, in earlier GTA games, it was possible to have sex with prostitutes and then beat them to death," Muszalski said, "people who lacked a grasp of 'sandbox' gameplay were likely to have interpreted that news to have meant that to 'win' at GTA, one had to perform such tasks, perhaps even that they were a recurring stage in the gameplay.

"Of course, such a perception is grossly flawed, as anyone who has actually played GTA...will quickly tell you," Muszalski continued. "Many of the aspects of GTA that were most covered in the press were things that, in the actual course of gameplay, many people would never need nor choose to do."

Of course, no one denies that there is sexually suggestive or violent content in GTA and other games. And Rockstar Games didn't help its cause in its slow response to the "Hot Coffee" scandal, nor does it now with its reaction to critics who accuse it of serving up games that are harmful to children.

"We don't have any comment on that," Rockstar spokesman Steve Hahnel told me Monday.

Sen. Clinton takes a bye
But perhaps the more measured approach to the GTA situation evinced even by some of the series' more vocal critics might be a more fair way to go.

For example, Sen. Hillary Clinton, who was one of the loudest members of the anti-GTA: San Andreas coalition in 2005, has decided to sit this round out.

"We are not planning to issue a statement at this point," Clinton spokeswoman Sarah Gegenheimer wrote in an e-mail.

And the National Organization for Women, which, according to the International Game Developers Association took GTA III to task for "encourag(ing) violence toward and the degradation of women (and) glorifies violence and degrades women," has also decided to remain calm. For now.

"We would really like to see the actual game before we comment on it," said Mai Shiozaki, NOW's press secretary. "But it's not like we're going to go out and buy it."

To be sure, there's little doubt that the controversy over the release of GTA IV is music to Rockstar Games' ears, no matter how shrill the criticism from the likes of Thompson, Yee, the Parents Television Council, and others.

Promotional screenshots for 'GTA IV' are dominated by scenes of one character or another wielding guns or being near explosions. But is this game any worse than dozens of other titles that go unnoticed by critics?

(Credit: Rockstar Games)

After all, as they say, any publicity is good publicity.

"It's their leading franchise, and it's the driver of the vast majority of their profits," said Colin Sebastian, a senior video game analyst at Lazard Capital Partners, "and so the game needs to sell very well, and I think it will. It's one of the few blockbuster franchises you can count on, in terms of sequels and follow-ons."

Sebastian said that because of the game's huge existing fan base, plus solid early reviews and the fact that it's coming out initially on two platforms--Xbox and PlayStation 3--he expects GTA IV to live up to or even exceed the sales numbers of its hit predecessors.

Analysts predict that GTA IV could break Halo 3's entertainment industry record of $170 million for first-day sales.

What GTA means to EA's takeover bid
One major component to the GTA saga is the game's role in the ongoing merger discussions between would-be buyer Electronic Arts and Take-Two.

What's clear in that dynamic, especially now that the game is being released, is that its success could impact the amount that EA is willing to pay for Take-Two.

"The expectations for GTA were already justifiably very high," Sebastian said. "EA understood that when they made their bid....Every day that passes, they're (going to be) losing out on GTA revenues, so they're likely to lower their bid over time....But if GTA massively exceeds their expectations, that could be a scenario where EA might have to raise their bid."

None of this, of course, matters to critics like Yee or the Parents Television Council, both of which cited the oft-reported history of violence in GTA as reason behind their statements.

"We've seen a number of clips of the game," said Yee spokesperson Adam Keigwin. "From the clips alone, and based on GTA and Rockstar's history, (Yee) thought it very appropriate to issue a statement urging parents not to purchase the game for their children."

Similarly, Gavin McKiernan, the national grassroots director for the Parents Television Council, said that despite not having seen the game yet, "You can't necessarily wait until the cat's out of the bag...There's a huge (GTA) marketing and release push, and I'm sure this game will sell lots and lots of copies, so you can't wait."

Plus, McKiernan added, "this is a pretty established, known quantity. If there was going to be a significant change in style and tenor, that would be well known."

To which Muszalski might say, "So what?"

"GTA has always been memorable for the degree to which it succeeds at dramatizing the narrative, and contextually supporting the players actions," he said. "This is not crime for crime's sake, as anyone who has really played the game will tell you, but which, sadly, may not be apparent to anyone who has merely had the game presented to them, mid-gameplay."

Daniel Terdiman is a staff writer at CNET News covering games, Net culture, and everything in between. E-mail Daniel.
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Not again!
by McPlot April 29, 2008 5:14 AM PDT
You know, I am sick of parental groups trying to be a parent for me. I will decide if my kids should play the game or not. I actually watch my children and know what games they are playing and what movies they are watching. I am active in my childerns lives.

To slam the game without even seeing or playing it, is stupid. Yes, most likely it will have what they fear it will have. But to what extent? They have no idea. It is like saying a movie is a porn just because it has Ron Jeremy in it. Even though he has done many non-adult movies like Detroit Rock City. (I did not say good movies).
Reply to this comment
Exactly - Not Again
by madman_5117 April 29, 2008 7:35 AM PDT
EA spent millions of dollars on advertising to get the word out about GTA. So they think that media influences people. So one cannot use the argument that "it's only a game". If a 60 second commercial influences, certainly hundreds of hours of violent and sexual gameplay also influences. So I say Not Again! The gaming industry again assaults my family with offensive material. It's time for more creativity instead of just repackaging old material in new technology. The gaming industry is making itself irrelevant.
View all 8 replies
Oh yeah, way to go Dad
by wjcunning April 29, 2008 7:12 PM PDT
Bet you reserve the right to keep guns in the hall closet and pesticides in the pantry.

You need some time in family court, dude.

Grow up, smell the coffee.

This software is not fit for consumption. It's unsafe at any speed.

Columbine, Va Tech.....what's it take to get your attention?
View all 2 replies
Breakdown of Civilization?
by Grim_13 April 29, 2008 10:37 PM PDT
Okay. Let's be reasonable here. I, as a parent, am no different than any of you. Yes, I will always have my concerns for my child, but let's be honest with ourselves.

By flaming this, a video game, are we not showing a bit more deeprooted problem than the imagery of some FANTASY game? Are the hookers on your television screen real? Have you not ever had sex before? Have you, as a parent, ever served in the military? Do you go to church?

Let me explain where I'm going with this.

First off, let me be frank that AS a parent I would not buy this game for my children, nor would I have my child in the room while I played any game at ALL that could be deemed as containing questionable content FOR my child. It's not right that we take the innocence of our children away, absolutely, IN that respect the parents get a point to their credit, absolutely... HOWEVER...

It is NOT up to the gaming industry to determine the strictness, nor the stringency of your parental guidelines and how they are enforced. You wouldn't sit your 5 year old in front of some hardcore porn. Nor would you have them chainsaw your neighbor's dog. If you LET your 5 year old play with a chainsaw, perhaps the problem isn't in the horror movies and adult video games you allow your child to watch but inwardly in the way you parent your child.

Behavioral problems are a part of every day life. They tend to be mentally brought on by some instability physiologically with our offspring OR by emotional trauma rendered by some event that will have happened in their life. It's easy, as a parent, to misjudge the HARM we do to our children by our "well, it couldn't have been MY fault, it was this VIDEO GAME or this MOVIE" attitude that our apathetic masses have taken up as our shield and banner from to hide us from the truth.

Video Games don't cause you to beat hookers and kill people. Nor do they cause our children to.

The physiological, psychological and emotional traumas that instill anger... hatred... aggression... traits that are either INHERITED or TAUGHT at an extremely early age, not by the television (unless you admit you were a bad parent and used the ol' boob tube as a CONSTANT babysitter with lack of real and true sociological bonding and relationship with your child) or by the actions of ourselves.

Now, earlier, I asked a bunch of questions such as "have you ever served in the military" or "do you go to church".

You, as a whole of reasonably and understandably concerned parents, try and SHELTER your children from the inevitable fact that the whole of humanity was ultimately built, as a civilization, on some of the most horrific crimes of lewdness, of lascivity, of violence, of destruction, of the perversion of nature that probably EXISTANCE, itself, has ever seen.

We live in a world where a man can serve his country in Iraq, face the horrors of battle, come home to a hero's welcome only to slaughter his wife and two children because of what he's experienced. We live in a world where if you take the wrong corner in the city you live in you MIGHT run into a prostitute.

You try so hard to mask your children from the fact that every single day we face issues that, in themselves, are far more terrifying than ANY video game can portray.

Every time you walk out your door, there are any number of a hundred-thousand ways you can be maimed, killed, or injured. When you go to work every day, there's a likelihood of about 50% that you will be slammed into by someone who's abusing a substance, be it alchohol, prescription drugs, controlled substances.

Murder happens every day and let me assure you. It's nothing new. Even the members of some Christian coalition would probably either flame me or "pray for my soul" but the fact is that there is just as much blood on the hands of any Christian, Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jew, Athiest, Bhuddist, Taoist, YOU name it... they've got the blood of the innocent on. Their. Hands.

Don't believe me?

It's common World History, really.

In the name of Christianity, The Crusades were fought by THOUSANDS... all for a chunk of land in Israel believed to be sacred. Now, let me assure you that the number of bastard children sired by rape, the amount of priceless artifacts that were ravaged, pillaged, or destroyed is incalculable, the prostitution.

The fact of the matter is this. Humanity is amongst the most horrible and vile and cruel species ever to exist to our knowledge. Anyone who claims that their hands are clean of innocent blood had better take a second look at your family tree. I assure you, by marriage or by blood, your bloodline is very likely to have been guilty of the most attrocious crimes known to man.

The violence, sexual content, bad language, utter carnage depicted graphically, in fantasy, on a television screen pales...PALES.... in comparison the true attrocity that is Mankind as a whole.

I'll tell you what.

Market a game called Grand Theft Auto: Jesus or Grand Theft Auto: The Roman Empire. Grand Theft Auto: Ancient Persia. Grand Theft Auto: The Inquisition, Grand Theft Auto: The Vietnam War... am I getting through to you yet? Violence, Rape, Mutilation, Horrors unimaginable are part of human nature. It is our nature to destroy ourselves. Sad. But true.

All you little housewives, all you little bible thumpers. All you whining, snivelling parents who are so enthralled with blaming the world's problems on a video game or a movie or a musical group, allow yourselves a moment to take a good, long, COLD and hard look in the mirror.

The problem isn't in some pixelized graphic. Its within humanity as a civilization. You're proving it right now by having spent so much time reading this comment. How, you are probably asking yourselves? Because while you're too busy sitting here, ******** about a video game, in the time it took you to WRITE that entry... you could have been out picking up litter. You could have taken your children to the park like I did with mine this afternoon. Hell, I'm writing this now that mine has gone to BED, which I tucked him into.

It takes 5 seconds to hide a video game you might own... or your porn stash... even less time to turn off the television entirely.

Instead, you'd rather take 5-15 minutes out of your lives to write a complaint about a video game.

Talk to your kids. Be more proactive in their lives. DO more with them. Try to learn more about who THEY are instead of trying to shelter them from the truth about the world. To hide behind a lie of fantasy, that our world is some candycoated make believe skip through the tulips, makes you no better than the fantastical avatar on the screen beating up hookers and blowing up mob bosses.

As far as sex goes, sex is everywhere. It is OUR duty, as a parent, to explain this to our kids. So many people have made sex out to be this taboo, unspeakable act that cannot be mentioned. I'm not saying sit down with your three year old and watch hardcore porn with them. I'm saying that sex is a BEAUTIFUL thing. Not only is it a showing of deep emotional affection, but it is ALSO the beginning stages of a brand new life. You people treat it like it's some kind of dirty, foul, disgusting thing but I assure you. Without it. Not one of you would be sitting here right now reading this.

You're so QUICK to descend on anything you fear that you don't realize that you're no different from what it is that you fear.

That I even have to point this OUT to you is a testament to just how truly right I am.

Jane Doe in friggin' suburbia, Oklahoma City, is probably a member of the PTA, Is an outstanding member of her church, walks her french poodle every hour on the hour, has a nice two story house in a cul de sac and is married, has two point five kids and a mortgage. However, what you DON'T know is that Jane Doe is also a dominatrix by evening, probably shoots up heroine, and helps John Doe beat their kids on a regular basis. THEN comes on here, bearing her cross to the world, complaining about how a video game is rotting the minds of her children.

GROW. UP. We are imperfect as a race. The first step to recovering from this is NOT by complaining about it on some internet chatboard. It is by accepting it and trying to BETTER ourselves through proactive means. A complaint is one thing. An proactive action taken out of love for our children by paying more attention to them than our concerns about what content is in some video game that hasn't even come OUT yet.

And to the guy who says he's assaulted by ads for this video game and other offensive material. Ever watched the 10 o'clock news? It's a lot easier to change the channel or turn the television off and play a board game (not to mention more proactive) with your kids than it is to log on to your computer and take the time out of your day, away from your family, to come on here and lodge a complaint from upon your high horse.

Unplug from your computers. Get off your high horses. Try to PHYSICALLY make the world a better place...rather than teaching all of this hate and predjudice in our world.
View all 3 replies
Personally...
by jelloburn April 29, 2008 6:19 AM PDT
... I'm sick of the GTA series, I played it from the first GTA to
GTA III and I no longer see any compelling reason to continue
playing. The originals were fun, but there's only so many car-
jackings and cannonball runs hat you can perform before it just
all starts to feel formulaic.

The games were definitely revolutionary in their open-ended
nature, scope, and willingness to deal with mature subject
matter, but I personally think it is time for this franchise to shut
down. It mainly performs well still because people (mainly
children that shouldn't be playing the games in the first place)
like the shock value. Just like Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh.
Reply to this comment
You forget....
by smokified April 29, 2008 1:31 PM PDT
The games have the most in depth story lines of any game out there.

If you are just running around stealing cars and killing hookers than you are just missing out on 95% of the actual game.

Being that you obviously know very little about the GTA series, your opinion is invalid. Your opinion is also irrelevant as this is a discussion about reviewing something without knowing about it....which you have just done.
View reply
Sometimes you can judge a book by it's cover (or author)
by reidme314 April 29, 2008 6:35 AM PDT
Rock Star's track record is sufficient to judge the content of this game. You don't have to watch a movie by Vivid Video to know what it contains.

Regardless, that's what ratings are for. Slap an M++ on it and let the buyer beware. As a parent I know it's hard to say no to your kid when "all my friends" have it, but then lots of things about parenting are hard. It's up to us to find better things for them to do.
Reply to this comment
Exactly
by amandachuck April 29, 2008 6:39 AM PDT
You don't need to see the game to know that it is going to be
like the other three GTA's, but amped up. Seriously, that is how
this business works. There is no reason to believe that Rock Star
is going to go Teen on this title, so get off your high horse mr.
journalist and stop parsing context.

That said, it's just a game. Market it as AO, and let the chips fall
as they may. Kids are going to get their hands on it no matter
what it's marked. That's the reality we live in.
You say it is a 'bad thing' for them to be doign
by Leria April 29, 2008 11:39 AM PDT
But I do not. In fact, most children who I know who have played GTA games, Doom 3 like games, etc. are LESS violent than other children, not more.

It is simply time to accept that people have violent tendencies and to encourage them to get rid of them in an acceptable way. Playing a video game and taking their frustrations out in that game is one.
Like their Table Tennis Game?
by umcrouc0 April 29, 2008 12:41 PM PDT
I was outraged by the excessive violence and sexuality in Rockstar's Table Tennis release. Couldn't believe that it actually had people playing table tennis in it. Oh the horrors of table tennis violence. Hitting the ball with a racket back and forth over a net with no regard for it's well-being. Have they no shame?
View reply
Europe
by GrandpaN1947 April 29, 2008 7:11 AM PDT
I'm sure it will sell well in Europe where it will be sold without censorship and without government interference. Rock on Euro
Reply to this comment
Japan
by McPlot April 29, 2008 10:12 AM PDT
Yeh, look at Japan. Full nudity on broadcast TV, violance galore everywhere in games, moves, TV, comic books, etc. You can buy teenage grils used underware from vending machines.

Yet.... Their crime rate is a fraction of what it is in the USA... Hummmm....
View reply
What did they think it was going to be?
by thedreaming April 29, 2008 7:13 AM PDT
You would think that after three successful games that the forth game would be what, a farm simulator? Give me a break. It's a big sandbox game where you can do pretty much anything you want and there's a story attached, if you're into that sort of thing, but in the end it's just a game. No one gets hurt, you don't make any actual money and no women are really hurt. Why are people complaining about a game that they haven't even played all the way through yet?!
Reply to this comment
Right
by smokified April 29, 2008 1:36 PM PDT
It is a game. No different than a book or movie.

As a matter of fact this is the first game that I have heard of where some people are screaming OSCAR for the absloutley excellent story line and performance from it's characters.
To little too late
by wilmepe April 29, 2008 7:18 AM PDT
Myself and hundreds of thousands of gamers already have our copies and this will become the best selling game of all time.
Parents who don't supervise what their kids play are the problem. Not the game itself.
Reply to this comment
DO NOT VOTE FOR CLINTON
by oliversolman April 29, 2008 7:19 AM PDT
one more reason not to!
Reply to this comment
Go away.
by psychosmurf April 29, 2008 8:53 AM PDT
You're tired and old.
*sigh*
by PogoWolf April 29, 2008 7:27 AM PDT
I really wish these people would worry more about something important like gas prices, the homeless, the jobless, and REAL crime, then a bunch of pixels.
Reply to this comment
Hear! Hear!
by davidamerland April 29, 2008 7:39 AM PDT
Reason at last!I second that.
Kudos!
by psychosmurf April 29, 2008 8:53 AM PDT
I totally agree with you.
amen
by tremorfireheart April 29, 2008 9:59 AM PDT
with gas prices and energy consumption going up were in for a bit of hurting in the coming years. We do have more important things to worry about.
View reply
Do you know how Giuliania
by b_baggins April 30, 2008 7:23 AM PDT
significantly reduced crime in NYC?

He went after the squeegee guys. See, he understood what you
don't.

Kill the root and the weed dies.
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so you don't like it
by pfletcher April 29, 2008 7:31 AM PDT
don't buy it, and don't let your kids buy it either.

there are plenty more scary things that happen in real life
Reply to this comment
Yeah, and that is where children learn about violence from
by Leria April 29, 2008 11:38 AM PDT
The parents of said children are usually the ones who teach them that violence is acceptable by wailing on each other at every turn, yet they are the SAME ONES who get upset when something like GTAIV comes out.
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Grow up!
by davidamerland April 29, 2008 7:38 AM PDT
First, all this noise is just publicity for GTA IV, second how about campaigning to get guns off the streets and make it illegal to buy one, or is the NRA sponsoring the activities of people like Jack Thompson? Third, it's only a game. Can parents not decide if they should buy it on their own? (It is a possibility that they have been infantilised by the Big Nanny approach to the point that they cannot). Fourth ... looks cool! I'll buy a copy just from the screenshots but the furor behind it clinched it for me.
Reply to this comment
oh no not the NRA
by FireyIce01 April 29, 2008 9:03 PM PDT
Statistically, the guns being used in crimes are bought on the black market. There is a very small percentage of legally bought guns being used for criminal activity, but if you can tell me where I can legally get an MP5 submachine gun in the US... well, then I might be wrong... Til then, I say that our gun laws aren't as much of an issue as our complete negligence in educating 'the populace'
Hypocritical short-sightedness
by dinojr April 29, 2008 7:49 AM PDT
Why's GTA evil when movies have equal amounts of sex and violence? Eastern Promises was chuck full of graphic gangster violence and sexual content and it was nominated for an Oscar! Where was the vilification of that movie?

Nobody's forcing players to fornicate with hookers and then beat them up. Nobody's forcing players to jump through major hoops to activate Hot Coffee. If there's anything wrong here, it's with the player that he/she chooses to do so.

The problem is the perception that video games are shallow meaningless pursuits for children and that they have no artistic, social or other value. We've been through this before with the Beatles' and Elvis' evil rock music and the scourge of comic books. History never fails to repeat itself.

I am an adult and I will buy and play the game and I'm not a death row inmate.
Reply to this comment
so what value do they have?
by xcopy April 29, 2008 10:48 AM PDT
I'm not a gamer. First person shooter, criminal activity games (e.g. GTA), etc. just don't interest me much. I've found lots of other ways to waste time.

Anyway, since I basically feel that (using your words)

"video games are shallow meaningless pursuits for children and that they have no artistic, social or other value"

How would you convince me otherwise? What can you say and what evidence would you provide to show why they aren't shallow meaningless pursuits without value? I honestly believe they are, but here's a chance to educate me and perhaps some others. I'm quite serious and not poking fun at you or trying to start a war; I see no positive value in these violent games now, but perhaps I'm missing something that I don't understand and I'd appreciate learning about other perspectives.
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Right on
by smokified April 29, 2008 1:45 PM PDT
Right, and **** that pencil neck bastard for trying to claim that people who play this game are a bunch of criminals.
Here we go again....
by Zaunto April 29, 2008 7:57 AM PDT
It's stupid for anyone who hasn't even seen or played a video game to comment negatively about it. There are numerous games out there with the same level of violence and sexuality or more. These "Tipper Gore" tactics didn't work with the music industry, it has never worked for the movie industry, and these stuffed shirts have to know that all they are doing is raising the hype level and guaranteeing that the game sells well. At least Clinton has the good sense to shut up about it.
Reply to this comment
What we've been waiting for . . .
by fokkwp April 29, 2008 8:13 AM PDT
. . . some great prep material for Marine recruitment candidates!
Reply to this comment
Really?
by FireyIce01 April 29, 2008 9:14 PM PDT
Are you serious? And in what way does this prepare a marine to run 20 miles in full gear? How does it improve his ability to aim a REAL firearm?

I think that watching all the episodes (movies) of RAMBO and ROCKY would be better prep for a marine than THIS video game.

And while everyone's ******** about GTA... has anybody ever tried No More Heroes? For the WII? Not only does it have only a single goal (to be the best assassin ever!) it is a complete ripoff of the GTA style of play.
Just the facts.
by lifelonglego April 29, 2008 10:30 AM PDT
One fact that people don't realise is that epople who play violent video games are much less likely to go homacidal. Before you start pointing out columbine, you should realise that FBI investigation clearly indicates that the murderes of the columbine incident did not have access to violent material. Disallowance of videogames most likely only causes negative thoughts in the victims of the oppression. In the past years, violence and homacides are decreasing, but violent video games are increasing. I really don't think there is any correlation at all. And I did notice that someone in this discussion mentioned guns. I am going to point out that ill-meaning criminals are not going to obey gun laws. The only thing no gun tolerance is, is a gauranty that the criminals victims will be unarmed and incapable of defending themselves. I don' like Hillory, but I think it was a wise move not to comment or do anything about GTA IV. I will still not vote for her, but I think that it was a good move.
Reply to this comment
Texas
by McPlot April 29, 2008 12:24 PM PDT
Texas has the least restrictive guns laws, and the least amount of gun violence. It is better when the crooks don't know who has a gun or not. And what criminal is going to obey a gun law? Doesn't the word "criminal" describe that person to start with? Look at another stat they do not tell you. Very few crimes involving guns are actually commited by a person who legally owed the gun used.
Mostly wrong
by smokified April 29, 2008 2:00 PM PDT
It is true that families that can afford video game systems are generally a little better off due to better education. Better education generally leads to more intelligent decisions and better values which leads to a better family life and then better children grow up to be more sucessful adults.

You cannot say that video games promote violence just as you cannot say that they help curb the violence.

The real problem is that parents do not take the time to raise their children properly and instead of just fessing up and doing what they need to do, they cast the blam in any direction they can thinking that they are fooling somebody.
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HOT COFFEE
by basraw April 29, 2008 11:01 AM PDT
is this th eone with the hot coffee hack?
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...
by smokified April 29, 2008 2:01 PM PDT
you know about as much as the people complaining about the game.
Glorifying violence? Our military does that!
by Leria April 29, 2008 11:36 AM PDT
Our military already glorifies violence when it says that dropping bombs on innocents from 10,000+ feet in the air is 'just part of a war'.
No, that is part of a WAR CRIME!

If they really want to get rid of violence, we have to start saying that ANY violence done in REAL LIFE for ANY reason is wrong and will not be tolerated.
That means it will not be tolerated by the military, by the police, or by regular civilians.... PERIOD AND DONE WITH.
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Idiot
by smokified April 29, 2008 2:14 PM PDT
you should probably consider suicide if you are that concerned about the world. We would be better off without you.
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Or, simple appreciation.
by ReVeLaTeD April 29, 2008 12:10 PM PDT
GTA has a decent story, sure. But there's more to it than that.

For some, a game is a diversion: something to do when you're bored or otherwise unoccupied. For others it's a career; they play games because that's what they're paid to do. And then there's people like me.

I grew up with games. Simple games like Pac Man didn't do it for me; I needed to have a reason for my playing the game. Even Pac Man has a backstory to it - minimal though it might be. Yearning for this story is the reason I play primarily RPGs all the time - I like to be immersed in what is essentially an interactive book.

Enter GTA. Since San Andreas is the only GTA I ever finished, I'll use it as the example. It had quite possibly the most involving story of any game at the time, beginning to end. The reason I really enjoyed it was the fact that I could in some parts relate to it - it reminded me of where I grew up and how things were. If you can relate and make yourself a part of the action, you appreciate it that much more.

It's easy to look on the surface and say, "oh he runs around with guns and blows stuff up and has sex with hookers and" whatever else, but that's not the core of what the guy does. It's only a small aspect of a larger experience: that being the character development...who he is, why he's doing what he's doing; the overall plot, why you're in the game and what you're intended to do; the scenery, the city and all of its various features; and of course, the dialogue, the meat and bones of any good story.

As has been said, the reason GTA games can't get a break is simple: the media and the general public believe that video games are and always will be only for kids, despite every effort by the game developers to counter that mentality. As long as we continue to assume games as kids-only stuff, we'll never be able to get past this nonsense.

PS - Why bother with an "AO" rating if Adults can't buy it because the stores won't carry it, and the console bigwigs won't allow it to be made?
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Correct
by smokified May 1, 2008 10:11 AM PDT
I agree 100%

People should start thinking about things how they are in general instead of only how the situation applies to them.

If you don't understand video games, maybe gather an understanding, or not, but your oppinions then are invalid.

If you don't like video games, don't play them, that is your choice.

I like video games and I think GTA4 is worth my time and money and I will play it as will MILLIONS of other people who I feel safe knowing are not going to turn into a bunch of criminals.

The people that act out what they see in video games have other more deep rooted problems.
A cartoon that is just as bad
by McPlot April 29, 2008 12:29 PM PDT
I saw a cartoon that had sex, violence, smoking, drinking, and murder! This heinous cartoon was called, Tom & Jerry!
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Don't forget
by smokified May 1, 2008 10:13 AM PDT
About looney toons
Excessive Violence?
by umcrouc0 April 29, 2008 12:32 PM PDT
There's actually very little violence in a GTA game compared to most other games on the market. The amount of time spent doing violent acts in GTA is minimal compared to any FPS. Look at Bioshock for example. You spend the entire game constantly shooting people, electrocuting them, lighting them on fire, etc. And that's a requirement of the game, not something that you do as a choice. GTA has violence in it, but the vast majoirity is done by the player choosing to do so, not as a requirement to finish the game. Giving someone control of their character doesn't mean that they need to go around running people over, it's something the person playing chooses to do. If your kids are given the choice of driving normally or running people down and the choose the latter, I think the problem is with your children, not the game that gave them the option to do so.
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Exactly
by smokified May 2, 2008 10:04 AM PDT
And if they have the choic in real life....oh, wait, they do.....which one are they going to make?

Should we just blow up the planet and give up? I mean how could we actually let people choose for themselves? And holding people accountable? How could we be so unrealistic? Why should anyone have to be responsible for anything? Lets just program robots to think for us and then we can say we have acheived the ultimate level of laziness....
Really?
by smokified April 29, 2008 12:59 PM PDT
First of all, Why do people feel that they are so important that we just need to listen to their opinions even though it is clearly apparent that they really do not know what you are talking about.

I wish this comment could be forced down the throats of all of these ignorant simpletons because people that try to impose their opinions on other people based on complete lack of knowledge **** ME THE **** OFF.

The choice is simple. If you do not like it, Don't play it. If you don't want your kids to play it, try being good parents and monitoring what your children are doing. If you are worried about what they are doing with their friends, be good parents and teach them how to be individuals and choose right from wrong.

The bottom line is that I like the kind of people that complain about these kinds of games just as much as those people like these games that they are complaining about. You don't see me goind around trying to rid the planet of these people as they are attempting to do with these games. I seem to remember a certain historical figure that had that kind of mentality.....oh yeah...Hitler was his name.

******* grow up America. For those of you who are sick of hearing this kind of bleeding heart ******** just as I am, keep fighting, I think the day is near where the "poor me's" are going to get what they have coming to them.
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