Report: Microsoft bans 1 million Xbox Live players
Update (5:50 p.m.): This story has been updated with a statement from Microsoft.
It's oh-so enticing: you find a copy of a brand new game like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 on a pirate site and the temptation to download it is too strong.
Well, that temptation may have cost up to 1 million users of Microsoft's Xbox Live the ability to use that service. According to a report in InformationWeek, Microsoft has banned as many as a million players from Xbox Live for altering their consoles in order to play pirated versions of games.
This week, Activision's new Call of Duty was released, and InformationWeek speculated that because pirated versions of the game appeared on various sharing sites in advance of the release, the game's developer may have exhorted Microsoft to enact the bans.
"Xbox 360 consoles are equipped with digital rights management technologies designed to detect pirated software," InformationWeek wrote, "but some players have successfully 'modded,' or modified, their machines to circumvent DRM protections."
Even if someone has been banned, their Xbox will still play offline games, InformationWeek said. But it's not at all clear if the bans are permanent or if Microsoft will allow those who have been booted from Xbox Live to return at some point down the line.
In a statement Microsoft said its "commitment to combat piracy and support safer and more secure gameplay for the more than 20 million members of the Xbox Live community remains a top priority. All consumers should know that piracy is illegal and modifying their Xbox 360 console violates the Xbox Live terms of use, will void their warranty and result in a ban from Xbox Live. We can assure you that if an Xbox Live member follows the Xbox Live terms of use, purchased a retail copy of Modern Warfare 2 and played the game on an unmodified Xbox 360, no action will be taken."
And on the Xbox support page, Xbox Live Director of Programming Larry Hryb, aka Major Nelson, has addressed some of the circumstances that could lead to a player's being banned.
"Players who find their Gamertags banned from Xbox Live have wound up in that situation due to violations of the Xbox Live Terms of Use," Major Nelson wrote. "The Xbox Live team monitors players for not just cheating, but also for things like threats, racism, profanity, and just being an all around poor sport and ruining the game for others.
"When a Gamertag comes up as violating our policies for online behavior, the person who owns that Gamertag is punished by being banned from the service. Keep in mind, this isn't just a ban on a particular game. This is a ban on the Xbox Live service as a whole, so you won't be able to go online at all during your ban. Initially, you may be banned for a day, a week, or depending on severity, permanently! Kiss that $50 goodbye."
Daniel Terdiman is a staff writer at CNET News covering games, Net culture, and everything in between. E-mail Daniel. 
Now if only they would be as tough on the folks who pirate Windows...
Your logic... is amazing.
Are you for or against illegal piracy of software?
Pirating doesn't always mean they person couldn't afford it. Most pirates, including myself, do it because if there's a choice to pay for it or not, why not get it for free?
Yeah, I know it's illegal... but I don't care. And, for the record, I've never pirated anything like a console game.
I'm thinking they already had the console, then modded it, then pirated the game (the last two? could be in either order, I guess). It simply doesn't work any other way.
If anything, I see someone quickly figuring out, yet again, how to get around xbox live detecting that they have a pirated copy and up to a million modded xboxes being re-modded.
"I'm thinking they already had the console, then modded it, then pirated the game (the last two? could be in either order, I guess). It simply doesn't work any other way."
Okay, I understand that, but I don't understand how that logic would make a person then go out and buy a more expensive PS3 that won't do what the person bought their Xbox for in the first place.
Here's a car analogy- perhaps this will help clarify why the logic you are using doesn't make sense:
A person buys and uses a Chevy pickup to haul hay around their farm. They decide to then modify it with a bigger engine. They now use it to go hot rodding at the drag strip, but are disqualified.
They then give up on the Chevy pickup and buy a BMW to ... haul their hay with?
That's the logic you're presenting here and that's what has people confused.
I thought it was common knowledge that this would happen. Its happened since XBox was first modded.
there are some difficult workarounds; but most guys i know are happy they can't use Live as a trade off.
Are cNET that far behind the times? Or a slow news day?
The latter half is your subjective opinion, so we'll stick with the first bit:
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Our assumptions:
You modded your XBox. You happily pirate games and play those pirated games on said XBox. This activity gets you kicked from XBox Live, so you're pretty much stuck with a console that can no longer go online. You, however, still want to play online.
...anyone have a problem with those basic assumptions? Good, then let's continue.
Your choices:
1) Dump your existing XBox, buy another XBox, then buy the game(s) you had pirated.
2) try to re-mod your XBox to get around the ban (with a indeterminable chance of success).
3) Dump your XBox and buy another console brand entirely (PS3, Wii, whatever).
Sure, there's that whole existing pile o' games issue, but those are likely mostly pirated anyway, correct?
It's not like the logic is impossible... #1 is expensive (especially in this economy), #2 is cheap but uncertain, and #3 means you make a clean break from the XBox and decided to give it a go on another console brand, since you're spending the money anyway (now whether or not you mod/pirate on those consoles is your matter, but remember - in this hypothetical you're certainly not averse to doing so).
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...of course, if you're a blind fanboy who worships all things Microsoft, I guess you would see no other option but to buy another XBox and pay for the game, etc.
My apologies if you became so bewildered by such a simple statement.
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"...you really are and idiot"
Wow... just... wow. I don't know where to begin with that snippet. (read it very carefully... that's not a very good phrase for a typo to sprout up, y'know ;) ).
Neccessity is the mother of invention - and I have seen odder ideas work.
It does prove that, like with Windows, piracy has helped Microsoft more than hurt it. I just hope that they (Microsoft) continue to crack down on people who rip off their intellectual property. Maybe then folks will sit down and actually do a cost/value analysis on Microsoft's products.
Unlike Apple with the iPhone, MS didn't brick the XBoxes. Apple could have simply banned the iPhones from the Apple Store and locked them out of the update cycles but they took a way more aggressive route.
I wonder what people would have said if Microsoft had bricked the modded XBoxes.
I found out about Microsoft's ban on all these Xbox Live Players before I even read the article...there's been a HUGE spike in modded Xbox 360's for sale on Craigslist. :)
However, you can't really blame Microsoft for trying to protect (1) their games from cheaters with rapid-fire, and (2) the content of the game companies. If companies feel like the xbox is easily exploited for piracy, then maybe they'll decide to switch to making games only for the PS3. Who knows.
How many of those banned already had a Live subscription before they pirated Call of Duty? If the answer is "all of them", then that's something like $50m a year. Considering that the division xbox is in barely ekes out a profit as it is, this pile of bans can't be helping things.
As for Windows itself? Back in the day, floppies of Windows 3.1 were flying around rather thick and heavy. This made it easier for users to prefer a pre-install of Windows with their next computer purchase, since they had already become familiar with it by then. Those 'pirates' became paying customers (whether they fully realize it or not).
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"Accept in this case they are ripping off Activision."
Correct. OTOH, Microsoft just dumped $50m/year of income that was being made off of the folks presumed as pirates.
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"However, you can't really blame Microsoft for trying to protect..."
I agree perfectly. It's their property, and their right to do with it as they please.
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"...comparing the Windows business to that of game developer is flawed."
I did no such thing, I promise. :)
There's no doubt that Activision got ripped off (big time). I know a lot of folks that still hang around Gamasutra and make a living off of their skills (modelers, mostly), and I agree - they deserve to be compensated for their efforts.
But, there's that underlying current of XBox modding as well... seems that you're apparently not even allowed to modify your own purchased hardware if you have an XBox.
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@viper396: Get a grip, kid. I'm not the one who shot his company in the foot here.
When did Apple EVER brick iPhones due to piracy? Millions of people have jailbroken iPhone and Apple hasn't done a dang thing to stop it other than simply updating their software.
Not to mention the fact that iPhone are virtually impossible to brick. All it takes is to plug it into iTunes and click restore.
Anti-Apple fanboys making crap up... where did you hear this info from?
And besides, apple has publicly stated it fights JBd and ULd phones for almost precisely the same reason MS is fighting the hacked Xboxes. Only in apple's case, the "cheaters" are a security issue since few of them bother to change the default root password. A JB'd phone doesn't affect the Apple Store, it affects other network and internet users if compromised.
You proudly brag about buiilding and using a Hackintosh, an action that defrauds Apple of $599.00, the minimum price of an Apple system that comes with OS X on it. That is the only legal way to get a full version of the OS. You gladly promote this violation of the Apple EULA.
Now if Apple comes along and decides to enforce that EULA and pulls the activation of all your Apple desktops and products that have that EULA, would you feel that this is justified or not? You are intetionally and willingly violating their EULA with your actions. Would you demand that Apple give back all the money you spent on their products as well?
See, you can't have a double standard here and still try to argue the point. If you strongly believe in your Hackintosh and the defrauding of Apple of $599.00, then you can't really have much to say about Microsoft pulling the accounts for piracy.
Somehow I expect you have some sort of rationlization for your actions and why you can do this, but then most criminals do too.
I just know someone is going to vilify MS about this. They were cheating and hacking games this makes playing online games frustrating and pointless to those who play straight, thus keeping people from enjoying their paid community. They downloaded an unpaid copy of a game that should have set them back 60 bucks, profit from that game goes to development of new games and making sure the programmers don't starve(I do understand that very little profit actually makes its way to the developers and is mostly paid to corporate suits with gold toilets but it still pays their bills and that's this argument. overpaid game companies is another day). They played it on a paid network community before the game was released, I shouldn't have to say this but just to be sure we are clear that is stupid to the Nth degree.
they got what they asked for and MS was more than in their rights to do so. I would have perma-banned each and every one of them gamertag and console.
'course, you yourself can be as pure as the driven snow - but that won't stop your kid from doing something dumb with your console...
ground the kid make their allowance cover costs. Stores in the mall don't care if it was you or your kid that broke something you still have to pay for it.
.... says the person guilty of defrauding Apple of $599.00 by buidling their own Hackintosh in direct violation of Apple's EULA.
Ethics. Some people have them. Some people don't. You've demonstrated which group you fall into.
Understood - but the possibility is still there, no?
it depends on what values you teach your kids.
Probably nothing since the XBox will brick itself with the RROD sometime in the near and not-so-distant future.
So I'm good for at least the "near and not-so-distant future" as I did not mod my console. But I must say, my PS3 has lasted for almost 2 years now so kudos to Sony for building a durable console. And M$ (I got it right this time!) for extending their warranty.
While I would have preferred they didn't go out, I have still been very happy with the service provided which was all accomplished online within 2 minutes and never had to talk to anyone. Emails were immediately forth coming upon receipt, and shipment back to me included accurate tracking. My 3 boys have been very happy with system upgrades and new features as they have been added.
I'm looking forward to Project Natal and will add it to all 3 systems we have now. So if you do happen to have a problem, you can expect outstanding service to fiix it quickly.
oh and fyi the new model xboxes are red ring proof it would seem.
imo, i think ms has done this at the right time of year to ensure maximum hardware/software sales profits over xmas.
Whether they were pirated or not, does this mean those who were banned get a refund for their XBL service? If not, then I think this is bad form on Microsoft's part b/c on one hand they're collecting money and on the other enforcing their TOS. I find it hypocritical for anyone who accepts money for play, then has the right to ban people "they" feel are violating their copyright. You can't have it both ways--if XBL were free, then you couldn't complain that they banned you. however, since it is a paid service, I find this borderline illegal.
Good question.
the users should be happy that they aren't in worse trouble then getting banned and such.
preface, I don't use XBL, he|| I don't even play XBOX anything or PS anything by choice, I own Xbox, PS, and Wii.
TOS states you can be banned if you (insert offending whatever here), you then do (insert offense here) and you get banned (or your console, NOT your XBL account, just your console) and now you want to cry foul???
If you CHOSE to mod your console, you CHOSE to take that risk and now want to point fingers and blame someone else only to justify the blame cause its a big company, this simply holds no merit.
Nada, zip zilch, You play the game you feel the pain.
Penguin of course you wouldnt know, you just spout gibberish.
In summary: You agreed to use xbox live the normal way and paid for it, now that you've violated that agreement, you're not going to get your money back. You should have known this was a possible consequence of your actions.
Simple as that.
Nope. Service agreement says they can revoke access to the paid services at any time without a refund. That's that pesky I Agree button we all click without reading. They can't continue to charge, obviously, but if you lose your 1 year a week in... you're out that 51 weeks.
It's not like anyone didn't know what they were doing. Not a single person who modded thier box thought "hey! Microsoft won't mind if I do this!!!" I have no sympathy.
Now it looks like they are stealing a page from the Apple playbook.
Hint: look at the capped words.
All this talk about modded xbox 360ss being sold on craigslist, PS3 sales going up (***?), and modded xboxs being useless just goes to show how ignorant some of the posters are on this forum.
Apple, on the other hand, is in the nature of bricking electronics that have been modified.
My message to modders? Listen to the world's smallest violin playing for you right now (hear it?).
I also think that a logical consequence for shutting down XBox live users would be to see a switch to the PS3. It is a better system. I never wanted to pay for Xbox live because I thought it was too expensive. So I paid for the PS3. See how it works? You vote with your dollars. If you cheat and steal, you pay eventually. COD MW2 users who can't play online....now you are paying the price for stealing.
If you can't tell the difference you are stupid and should not be in the conversation.
The "particular" copyright infringement that you are talking about is as-plain-as-day stealing. You obtained something that is meant to be sold without paying for it. It doesn't matter if it's a freaking copy of a game or an effing BMW. It is something that is not yours, and you took possession of it without permission from the owner. That in my book is stealing.
I was looking for a good enough reason to buy a ps3 and here it is. Beides it has free online (my acheivement score was useless) free wifi (I lost my network adapter months ago) and its the same price. Plus I want to play that new ico game. Thanks for setting me straight M$ and helping me to see the light. Im ready for anybody who wants to be my first opponent in a free game of madden, and mass effect 2 will kindly be downloaded for 360
Software is not sold, it is licensed. You do not have the right to do whatever you want with it. When you duplicate it and give it away to others (or worse, sell it), you are reducing the revenue of the company that invested millions of dollars in developing the software. In other words, you are stealing their revenue. It's really not much different than you going into GameStop and distracting the clerk while your friends loot the shelves.
So maybe you make yourself feel better by calling it "copyright infringement", but hat's just a fancy word for "stealing". So anyone who does it is a thief.
My DVD drive broke down. Repairing it with Microsoft means sending the console to Texas and paying $100. I found a local guy who replaced the drive for me for $60 and the same day.
Now my console is banned.
End result - I canceled my XBox Live Subscription and my Netflix subscription.
The "copyright infringment is stealing" crowd likes to use car analogies, so here is one.
I buy a car from car maker A. It breaks down. It costs $5000 to repair at a car maker A shop and $3000 at an independent shop. I choose option B and car maker A bans me from the highway.
Your logic is flawed.
In your example, you own the car and paid good money for it. You are also NOT bound by contract to always have your car repaired by Car Maker A (and I think you are smart enough to avoid this car if this kind of contract exist anyways). You then sir have all the right in this world to have it repaired anywhere you like and you are not breaking any contractual obligation.
The banning of consoles from XBox Live, however, is a result of you not following it's terms of use. In order to access the service you have to use an unmodified console and a legit game. Your Xbox will still work just fine, it just won't be able to connect to XBox Live.
If you take your care to an independant repair shop that is not authorized by the OEM to make those repairs, then the OEM has every right to invalidate your warranty. Why? Because the OEM could never be positive those repairs were done correctly and if something happens, it's the OEM that will get sued for it. They are responsible for that product and when you compromise it by going to another shop, then that warranty should be voided.
Apple does it as well. It's just the way you protect your product.
Actually you can take your car to an unauthorized repair shop and the dealer cannot deny a warranty on a car. That directly violates section 102(c) and section 110 of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Even if they write it in their warranty contract, it is still voided by the act as 102(c) prevents these provisions. The only way they can deny the warranty is if they can prove such a repair caused the failure of a warrantied part. Not to say they won?t try, but you?ll likely win in court if it goes that far.
Not that any of that applies here. What can be compared are the rights you have buying electronics vs. a car. I?m not a fan of EULAs because they are filled with lawyer speak and are often snuck in at the final moment. They can pretty much put anything in there, as opposed to a car which has many more restrictions on what a dealer can and cannot do. I don?t agree with pirates, and I pay for all my stuff, but I do think most electronics companies are going a little too far when it comes to hardware. That includes MS, Sony, Apple, and pretty much all the major players.
Better yet... if you're banned, try getting up off the sofa, go outside and get some fresh air. Perhaps it will help clear that cloud of noxious vapor from your head and you will understand why what you did is wrong.
Good on ya, Micro$oft! Concentrate on what you are doing best: MAKING MICE AND KEYBOARDS.
Open source software is a multi-billion dollar business. So giving away things for free can't possibly work.
IfI would of got banned for a true violation I would understand. but the people at xbox won't fill you in 1 bit on why you have received a ban other than " you violtaed the terms of Use" or as I like to say "guitly untill proven innocent, however we aren't going to prove anything'
For those interested go to xbox.com and then into the FORUMS and go down about 6 places to "account suspension" and read some inquiries and the replies these Xbox jerks reply with.
Dude, I don't mean to sound cold-hearted, but... damn they've been busy lately...
You can afford three game consoles but are too cheap to pay for games..... nice! I'm glad you're not on Xbox Live with me.
Well you are welcome to paint it with pink and purple polkadots if you so choose. But that doesn't mean they have to allow you to use the services. They can ban whoever they want. But as I was saying below, ban away...but don't think you won't have to refund my money. If I paid for the system with the explicit purpose of using the online features and you can't prove I modded it, then I want my money back.
As of two days ago according to listings. In my area there were only about 5 XBoxes for sale. Apparently modifying ones XBox is quite popular.
- by ajennice November 11, 2009 1:04 PM PST
- you're right.. but if you get banned should they provide a SPECIFIC reason other than you violated the rules....
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- by famoussasjohn November 13, 2009 10:25 AM PST
- Read the TOS then. It specifically says if your console is modded in any way, and your console will be banned. The generic response on the "Your console has been banned for violating the TOS policy" should be blatant enough. Read through it and you will see why.
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Showing 1 of 5 pages (207 Comments)The fact they can ban someone with no specific reason is absurd. i don't care if I got banned or not, but I'd like to know what I vilated, so I don't make that mistake again. Theiur customer service and tech support states thay can not provide a reason why becasaue of the safety of the users and the xbl commuity.Safety?!?!!? so by telling me why I got banned you're putting someone at risk?? Talk saftey. You get banned at 8:30 and run to target to get a nerw one by 9 and get in a car wreck.. that's safety?
And then they fire the " we don't have the resources to determine why"/ OK microsoft doesn't have "reason" resources, though they have "effect" resources.
It's kind of like going to court for no reason and getting a jail term and not knowing why or not having the judge let you know.. In your mind you think.. heck I've jay walked, sped, ran a red light, drank a beer when I was underage, prnak called a house when I was 6....etc.. which of these (if any) am I being punished for.?
The examples you used are very poor.
You knew exactly what you were getting into when you modded your xbox, the guy that makes the firmware for the xbox's even states "PLAY ON XBL AT YOUR OWN RISK!" good enough warning for you? If you get banned, you get banned, you should obviously know why you were banned if you have a modded xbox.