Report: Microsoft bans 1 million Xbox Live players

Update (5:50 p.m.): This story has been updated with a statement from Microsoft.

It's oh-so enticing: you find a copy of a brand new game like Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 on a pirate site and the temptation to download it is too strong.

Well, that temptation may have cost up to 1 million users of Microsoft's Xbox Live the ability to use that service. According to a report in InformationWeek, Microsoft has banned as many as a million players from Xbox Live for altering their consoles in order to play pirated versions of games.

This week, Activision's new Call of Duty was released, and InformationWeek speculated that because pirated versions of the game appeared on various sharing sites in advance of the release, the game's developer may have exhorted Microsoft to enact the bans.

"Xbox 360 consoles are equipped with digital rights management technologies designed to detect pirated software," InformationWeek wrote, "but some players have successfully 'modded,' or modified, their machines to circumvent DRM protections."

Even if someone has been banned, their Xbox will still play offline games, InformationWeek said. But it's not at all clear if the bans are permanent or if Microsoft will allow those who have been booted from Xbox Live to return at some point down the line.

In a statement Microsoft said its "commitment to combat piracy and support safer and more secure gameplay for the more than 20 million members of the Xbox Live community remains a top priority. All consumers should know that piracy is illegal and modifying their Xbox 360 console violates the Xbox Live terms of use, will void their warranty and result in a ban from Xbox Live. We can assure you that if an Xbox Live member follows the Xbox Live terms of use, purchased a retail copy of Modern Warfare 2 and played the game on an unmodified Xbox 360, no action will be taken."

And on the Xbox support page, Xbox Live Director of Programming Larry Hryb, aka Major Nelson, has addressed some of the circumstances that could lead to a player's being banned.

"Players who find their Gamertags banned from Xbox Live have wound up in that situation due to violations of the Xbox Live Terms of Use," Major Nelson wrote. "The Xbox Live team monitors players for not just cheating, but also for things like threats, racism, profanity, and just being an all around poor sport and ruining the game for others.

"When a Gamertag comes up as violating our policies for online behavior, the person who owns that Gamertag is punished by being banned from the service. Keep in mind, this isn't just a ban on a particular game. This is a ban on the Xbox Live service as a whole, so you won't be able to go online at all during your ban. Initially, you may be banned for a day, a week, or depending on severity, permanently! Kiss that $50 goodbye."

[Random_Walk]

I'm seeing up to 1 million new PS3 owners in the next few weeks... or at least up to a million modded xboxes going up on Craigslist.<br /><br />Now if only they would be as tough on the folks who pirate Windows...

[Random_Walk]

whoa - bug in teh site. I thought this comment was lost. :)

[Vegaman_Dan]

Why would a person who can't afford to buy a video game, therefore downloads an illegal copy... then cough up hundreds of dollars more to buy a console...... that won't play the game they wanted to play in the first place? <br /> <br />Your logic... is amazing. <br /> <br />Are you for or against illegal piracy of software?

[tmeesseman]

@Vegaman <br /> <br />Pirating doesn't always mean they person couldn't afford it. Most pirates, including myself, do it because if there's a choice to pay for it or not, why not get it for free? <br /> <br />Yeah, I know it's illegal... but I don't care. And, for the record, I've never pirated anything like a console game.

[Random_Walk]

"Why would a person who can't afford to buy a video game, therefore downloads an illegal copy... then cough up hundreds of dollars more to buy a console...... that won't play the game they wanted to play in the first place?"<br /><br />I'm thinking they already had the console, then modded it, then pirated the game (the last two? could be in either order, I guess). It simply doesn't work any other way.

[shinelikeitdoes]

I agree. This is some pretty crackhead style logic.<br /><br />If anything, I see someone quickly figuring out, yet again, how to get around xbox live detecting that they have a pirated copy and up to a million modded xboxes being re-modded.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Random_Walk: <br /> <br />"I'm thinking they already had the console, then modded it, then pirated the game (the last two? could be in either order, I guess). It simply doesn't work any other way." <br /> <br />Okay, I understand that, but I don't understand how that logic would make a person then go out and buy a more expensive PS3 that won't do what the person bought their Xbox for in the first place. <br /> <br />Here's a car analogy- perhaps this will help clarify why the logic you are using doesn't make sense: <br /> <br />A person buys and uses a Chevy pickup to haul hay around their farm. They decide to then modify it with a bigger engine. They now use it to go hot rodding at the drag strip, but are disqualified. <br /> <br />They then give up on the Chevy pickup and buy a BMW to ... haul their hay with? <br /> <br />That's the logic you're presenting here and that's what has people confused.

[bananaphonerules]

@Random_Walk <br /> <br />I thought it was common knowledge that this would happen. Its happened since XBox was first modded. <br />there are some difficult workarounds; but most guys i know are happy they can't use Live as a trade off. <br /> <br />Are cNET that far behind the times? Or a slow news day?

[Random_Walk]

"Okay, I understand that, but I don't understand how that logic would make a person then go out and buy a more expensive PS3 that won't do what the person bought their Xbox for in the first place."<br /><br />The latter half is your subjective opinion, so we'll stick with the first bit:<br />==<br /><br />Our assumptions:<br />You modded your XBox. You happily pirate games and play those pirated games on said XBox. This activity gets you kicked from XBox Live, so you're pretty much stuck with a console that can no longer go online. You, however, still want to play online. <br /><br />...anyone have a problem with those basic assumptions? Good, then let's continue.<br /><br />Your choices:<br />1) Dump your existing XBox, buy another XBox, then buy the game(s) you had pirated.<br />2) try to re-mod your XBox to get around the ban (with a indeterminable chance of success).<br />3) Dump your XBox and buy another console brand entirely (PS3, Wii, whatever).<br /><br />Sure, there's that whole existing pile o' games issue, but those are likely mostly pirated anyway, correct? <br /><br />It's not like the logic is impossible... #1 is expensive (especially in this economy), #2 is cheap but uncertain, and #3 means you make a clean break from the XBox and decided to give it a go on another console brand, since you're spending the money anyway (now whether or not you mod/pirate on those consoles is your matter, but remember - in this hypothetical you're certainly not averse to doing so). <br /><br />==<br /><br />...of course, if you're a blind fanboy who worships all things Microsoft, I guess you would see no other option but to buy another XBox and pay for the game, etc. <br /><br />My apologies if you became so bewildered by such a simple statement.<br /><br />==<br /><br />"...you really are and idiot"<br /><br />Wow... just... wow. I don't know where to begin with that snippet. (read it very carefully... that's not a very good phrase for a typo to sprout up, y'know ;) ).

[kewell82]

Vegaman_Dan your last comment was retarded.

[solitare_pax]

On the other hand, what is there to keep some clever person out there from creating a copy of Microsoft's servers for the Xbox that will be pirate and mod friendly? <br /> <br />Neccessity is the mother of invention - and I have seen odder ideas work.

[Random_Walk]

I see up to a million modded xboxes being dumped on Craigslist, and possibly up to a million new PS3 owners coming in the next few months... <br /><br />It does prove that, like with Windows, piracy has helped Microsoft more than hurt it. I just hope that they (Microsoft) continue to crack down on people who rip off their intellectual property. Maybe then folks will sit down and actually do a cost/value analysis on Microsoft's products.

[ClaBR]

The vast majority of Live subscribers find it worth the cost. Microsoft banned the modded XBoxes because they can cheat on online games and it would be a problem to the other people. The banned consoles can still play games locally and will still be able to run pirated games.<br /><br />Unlike Apple with the iPhone, MS didn't brick the XBoxes. Apple could have simply banned the iPhones from the Apple Store and locked them out of the update cycles but they took a way more aggressive route.<br /><br />I wonder what people would have said if Microsoft had bricked the modded XBoxes.

[robvme]

Accept in this case they are ripping off Activision.

[karpenterskids]

HAHA, Random_Walk...I was coming on here to post almost the same thing!<br /><br />I found out about Microsoft's ban on all these Xbox Live Players before I even read the article...there's been a HUGE spike in modded Xbox 360's for sale on Craigslist. :)<br /><br /><br />However, you can't really blame Microsoft for trying to protect (1) their games from cheaters with rapid-fire, and (2) the content of the game companies. If companies feel like the xbox is easily exploited for piracy, then maybe they'll decide to switch to making games only for the PS3. Who knows.

[unamike]

While piracy may not hurt the Windows business (though your logic for that statement is tough to follow) comparing the Windows business to that of game developer is flawed. These developers generate far less revenue than Microsoft Windows does. Piracy imposes a larger detrimental affect on their business. Continued success of the XBox business depends on success of the game developers. Microsoft pretty much has to do what it can for these guys. The game devs I've met are passionate about their craft. Enough so that they may still build games even if they couldn't get paid for it. It does make it easier on them when they are receiving regular paychecks though.

[kaibelf]

How has piracy helped microsoft in this case? They didn't make the game, so it doesn't exactly help them to have people who ripped off Activision using their network.

[viper396]

You practically live on CNET just looking for any topic for which to troll against Microsoft. So what happen to you to make you so fanatically negative about a company that doesn't know you exist? Did someone at Microsoft shoot your dog or rape your mother? Please tell us it's more then just some trivial reason like you bought a Mac or run a Linux box and now everyone who doesn't is an enemy. We get it, you don't like Windows but it's not your responsibility to impress your opinions on complete strangers with a bunch of rhetorical and irrelevant banter. Is there nothing more important in your life to concern yourself over?

[Random_Walk]

"How has piracy helped microsoft in this case?"<br /><br />How many of those banned already had a Live subscription before they pirated Call of Duty? If the answer is "all of them", then that's something like $50m a year. Considering that the division xbox is in barely ekes out a profit as it is, this pile of bans can't be helping things.<br /><br />As for Windows itself? Back in the day, floppies of Windows 3.1 were flying around rather thick and heavy. This made it easier for users to prefer a pre-install of Windows with their next computer purchase, since they had already become familiar with it by then. Those 'pirates' became paying customers (whether they fully realize it or not). <br /><br />==<br /><br />"Accept in this case they are ripping off Activision."<br /><br />Correct. OTOH, Microsoft just dumped $50m/year of income that was being made off of the folks presumed as pirates.<br /><br />==<br /><br />"However, you can't really blame Microsoft for trying to protect..."<br /><br />I agree perfectly. It's their property, and their right to do with it as they please. <br /><br />==<br /><br />"...comparing the Windows business to that of game developer is flawed."<br /><br />I did no such thing, I promise. :)<br /><br />There's no doubt that Activision got ripped off (big time). I know a lot of folks that still hang around Gamasutra and make a living off of their skills (modelers, mostly), and I agree - they deserve to be compensated for their efforts.<br /><br />But, there's that underlying current of XBox modding as well... seems that you're apparently not even allowed to modify your own purchased hardware if you have an XBox.<br /><br />==<br /><br />@viper396: Get a grip, kid. I'm not the one who shot his company in the foot here.

[tmeesseman]

@ClaBR <br /> <br />When did Apple EVER brick iPhones due to piracy? Millions of people have jailbroken iPhone and Apple hasn't done a dang thing to stop it other than simply updating their software. <br /> <br />Not to mention the fact that iPhone are virtually impossible to brick. All it takes is to plug it into iTunes and click restore. <br /> <br />Anti-Apple fanboys making crap up... where did you hear this info from?

[jumpjetta]

@Clabr... I've had an unlocked iPhone since shortly after you could start doing such a thing with an iPhone 2G. (Needed that to run European SIMs for travel and don't really care about jailbroken apps). Not once yet has my phone been bricked or locked by apple. And I'm using the current firmware. So, maybe you're just here to troll and make crap up about apple products. <br /><br />And besides, apple has publicly stated it fights JBd and ULd phones for almost precisely the same reason MS is fighting the hacked Xboxes. Only in apple's case, the "cheaters" are a security issue since few of them bother to change the default root password. A JB'd phone doesn't affect the Apple Store, it affects other network and internet users if compromised.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Random_Walk: <br /> <br />You proudly brag about buiilding and using a Hackintosh, an action that defrauds Apple of $599.00, the minimum price of an Apple system that comes with OS X on it. That is the only legal way to get a full version of the OS. You gladly promote this violation of the Apple EULA. <br /> <br />Now if Apple comes along and decides to enforce that EULA and pulls the activation of all your Apple desktops and products that have that EULA, would you feel that this is justified or not? You are intetionally and willingly violating their EULA with your actions. Would you demand that Apple give back all the money you spent on their products as well? <br /> <br />See, you can't have a double standard here and still try to argue the point. If you strongly believe in your Hackintosh and the defrauding of Apple of $599.00, then you can't really have much to say about Microsoft pulling the accounts for piracy. <br /> <br />Somehow I expect you have some sort of rationlization for your actions and why you can do this, but then most criminals do too.

[murph17]

MS will ban your Gamertag for bad behavior. But if you are modding/pirating - they ban your CONSOLE not your Gamertag. And you're out at least $199 for a new one.

[cloudmatt]

lesson...DON'T CHEAT, DON'T STEAL, DON'T BE STUPID.<br /><br />I just know someone is going to vilify MS about this. They were cheating and hacking games this makes playing online games frustrating and pointless to those who play straight, thus keeping people from enjoying their paid community. They downloaded an unpaid copy of a game that should have set them back 60 bucks, profit from that game goes to development of new games and making sure the programmers don't starve(I do understand that very little profit actually makes its way to the developers and is mostly paid to corporate suits with gold toilets but it still pays their bills and that's this argument. overpaid game companies is another day). They played it on a paid network community before the game was released, I shouldn't have to say this but just to be sure we are clear that is stupid to the Nth degree.<br /><br />they got what they asked for and MS was more than in their rights to do so. I would have perma-banned each and every one of them gamertag and console.

[Random_Walk]

"lesson...DON'T CHEAT, DON'T STEAL, DON'T BE STUPID."<br /><br />'course, you yourself can be as pure as the driven snow - but that won't stop your kid from doing something dumb with your console...

[cloudmatt]

@random tuche'<br /><br />ground the kid make their allowance cover costs. Stores in the mall don't care if it was you or your kid that broke something you still have to pay for it.

[Vegaman_Dan]

"'course, you yourself can be as pure as the driven snow :" <br /> <br />.... says the person guilty of defrauding Apple of $599.00 by buidling their own Hackintosh in direct violation of Apple's EULA. <br /> <br />Ethics. Some people have them. Some people don't. You've demonstrated which group you fall into.

[Random_Walk]

"ground the kid make their allowance cover costs"<br /><br />Understood - but the possibility is still there, no?

[Bummmmer]

@ random<br />it depends on what values you teach your kids.

[iPhoneUser]

--I wonder what people would have said if Microsoft had bricked the modded XBoxes.<br /><br />Probably nothing since the XBox will brick itself with the RROD sometime in the near and not-so-distant future.

[EdCenter]

Well if it were to RROD in the "near and not-so-distant future", then would the 360 be covered under Microsoft's, erm, I mean Micro$oft's 3-yr warranty? My original Xbox 360 RROD'd after 11 months, and MS, erm, M$ replaced it for me for free! I've since sold it and bought an Xbox 360 Elite and have been playing it for about a year now. <br />So I'm good for at least the "near and not-so-distant future" as I did not mod my console. But I must say, my PS3 has lasted for almost 2 years now so kudos to Sony for building a durable console. And M$ (I got it right this time!) for extending their warranty.

[Vegaman_Dan]

Still on my original 360, years into usage.

[Random_Walk]

Dunno - it would have been an interesting exercise (though they likely didn't brick the consoles because then their channel partners would've been flooded with warranty-work, and after the whole RROD thing, I doubt that Microsoft would want even the slightest hint of bad PR around the XBox hardware).

[Super2online]

I have three Xbox 360 systems. The first lasted a year and half, sent it in, had a refurbished one back in 7 days. 2 months later I bought an Elite for the hearth room. It lasted about a year and had to send it in, 8 days later I got a refurbished one back. A month ago, the first refirbished unit went out and I sent it in, got it back in 6 days. Microsoft has paid for all shipping and included a free month of xbox live on a prepaid card taped to each system. We have never had a problem with the 3rd Elite system we purchased. <br /> <br />While I would have preferred they didn't go out, I have still been very happy with the service provided which was all accomplished online within 2 minutes and never had to talk to anyone. Emails were immediately forth coming upon receipt, and shipment back to me included accurate tracking. My 3 boys have been very happy with system upgrades and new features as they have been added. <br /> <br />I'm looking forward to Project Natal and will add it to all 3 systems we have now. So if you do happen to have a problem, you can expect outstanding service to fiix it quickly.

[woffler]

you can't blame/whine at m$ for banning you, if you mod your console you do so knowing full well you could get it banned. for people who are banned, keep your modded console to play new games offline and buy a real xbox with real games if u dont wanna get banned. <br /><br />oh and fyi the new model xboxes are red ring proof it would seem. <br /><br />imo, i think ms has done this at the right time of year to ensure maximum hardware/software sales profits over xmas.

[biffhenerson]

Good job Microsoft!

[kaibelf]

Good. They deserve to be banned.

[Renegade Knight]

Not really. Some may deserve it. Others not. Modding your Xbox isn't a problem. The piracy and cheating are. You need to be clear on why you are banning and not trap the folks who modded for other reasons or just because they could.

[PtarThanes]

@Renegade Yes, really; modding a 360 *is* a problem. Making any modifications to the Xbox 360 hardware is a violation of Xbox Live's Terms of Use. Any violation of the TOU are subject to a banning.

[Oso_Grande]

I don't know how legal this is, actually.<br /><br />Whether they were pirated or not, does this mean those who were banned get a refund for their XBL service? If not, then I think this is bad form on Microsoft's part b/c on one hand they're collecting money and on the other enforcing their TOS. I find it hypocritical for anyone who accepts money for play, then has the right to ban people "they" feel are violating their copyright. You can't have it both ways--if XBL were free, then you couldn't complain that they banned you. however, since it is a paid service, I find this borderline illegal.

[Random_Walk]

"Whether they were pirated or not, does this mean those who were banned get a refund for their XBL service?"<br /><br />Good question.

[cloudmatt]

you pay a cover charge/member fee to be part of a bar/sportsman club. You then proceed to punch out the bouncer grab a bottle of top shelf and start drinking without the intent to pay. The night ends and you go home. Next day you show up at the same bar and the state trooper politely informs you that your persona non grata and that the private establishment holds the right to deny your access. Are you really going to gripe about the fee you paid for entry not being refunded? In this scenario your lucky your not getting arrested for assault theft robbery etc.<br /><br />the users should be happy that they aren't in worse trouble then getting banned and such.

[blackberryken]

I want a refund for the fuel I bought that I used to speed with in my car. I got a speeding ticket (got caught) and because I used fuel *I* paid for its illegal to give me a ticket?????? <br /> <br />preface, I don't use XBL, he|| I don't even play XBOX anything or PS anything by choice, I own Xbox, PS, and Wii. <br /> <br />TOS states you can be banned if you (insert offending whatever here), you then do (insert offense here) and you get banned (or your console, NOT your XBL account, just your console) and now you want to cry foul??? <br /> <br />If you CHOSE to mod your console, you CHOSE to take that risk and now want to point fingers and blame someone else only to justify the blame cause its a big company, this simply holds no merit.

[CrashPad63]

Whether they were pirated or not, does this mean those who were banned get a refund for their XBL service?" <br />Nada, zip zilch, You play the game you feel the pain. <br />Penguin of course you wouldnt know, you just spout gibberish.

[JabberWockey]

When you sign up for XBL, agree to the terms, and pay, you are agreeing to a contract. That contract states a whole list of actions that will violate the contract, in which you will be not be given your money back. Using the service with a modded Xbox 360 is one of those actions that violates the agreement. <br /> <br />In summary: You agreed to use xbox live the normal way and paid for it, now that you've violated that agreement, you're not going to get your money back. You should have known this was a possible consequence of your actions.

[Vegaman_Dan]

If you violate the rules, you shouldn't get a refund. <br /> <br />Simple as that.

[kaibelf]

When you log into XBL, you agree to a TOS, which clearly doesn't include using their network for illegal means. If you break that deal, the very idea you should expect a refund is laughable.

[Thranx]

"Whether they were pirated or not, does this mean those who were banned get a refund for their XBL service?" <br /> <br />Nope. Service agreement says they can revoke access to the paid services at any time without a refund. That's that pesky I Agree button we all click without reading. They can't continue to charge, obviously, but if you lose your 1 year a week in... you're out that 51 weeks. <br /> <br />It's not like anyone didn't know what they were doing. Not a single person who modded thier box thought "hey! Microsoft won't mind if I do this!!!" I have no sympathy.

[fletchb]

They have the right to ban the person, but NOT keep the money for services NOT rendered. If they do the right thing then fine..otherwise class action lawsuit time.

[solitare_pax]

But I thought you had the freedom and flexibility to do whatever you want with Microsoft's products. No rules required. Until now. <br /> <br />Now it looks like they are stealing a page from the Apple playbook.

[jumpjetta]

That's the funniest (funny as in ironic) comment I've ever heard.

[JabberWockey]

So you've spotted similarities between how electronics manufacturers treat their end users. This behavior is pretty much universal for all ELECTRONIC products. Microsoft SOFTWARE stills stand as being way more customizeable than ELECTRONIC products using Apple's SOFTWARE. Do you see how the industry works now? <br /> <br />Hint: look at the capped words.

[Seaspray0]

@solitare pax. For your own personal use. The xbox live service is not personal use since it involves interaction with others. You didn't think about it enough.

[TheraCaffe]

Yeah, I agree with Seaspray0. Xbox Live is a public service, so you can't just do whatever and interfere with other peoples' service rights. The offenders are only blocked from the Live service; their consoles aren't bricked, they can still do whatever they want with those.

[JabberWockey]

You guys are morons. Microsoft didn't brick the modded Xbox 360s. The modded Xbox 360s. still work. They still play regular games. They still play pirated games. It's just that in order to use Microsofts dedicated Xbox Live servers for online multiplayer play, you need to use an Xbox 360 that has not been modded. <br /> <br />All this talk about modded xbox 360ss being sold on craigslist, PS3 sales going up (***?), and modded xboxs being useless just goes to show how ignorant some of the posters are on this forum. <br /> <br />Apple, on the other hand, is in the nature of bricking electronics that have been modified.

[jscott418]

I think Microsoft did the right thing. Anyone who thinks going to PS3 will be any better? Have we forgotten its Sony who was putting that DRM program on computers with some of their media? People need to realize that copyright is just that. Some people especially younger people seem to think its somehow OK to do this? I am not here to preach. But don't whine when you get caught. You look kind of stupid complaining about being caught doing something that's illegal.

[TheHBK23]

Nice, I wonder how Sony would approach this kind of situation.

[Michichael]

"Eh, it's the developer's problem."

[jengilis]

It is a perfectly logical consequence. I think people should stop making excuses for why they steal software. Oh....I don't make enough money.....oh I am a college student. I admit I had my day when I saw it was easy. I remember the days of Napster. But now I pay for what I want If I think it is too expensive, I don't buy it. I know you could steal it but don't expect to be able to get away with it. People can still play the games offline which means they are lucky that Microsoft hasn't found a way to lock them out of playing completely. Somehow, they must have managed $70 a year for XBOX live, $100 to pay someone to mod their XBOX. A few hundred dollars to have a computer, monitor, DVD/CD burner, $20 to $50 dollars a month to pay for an internet connection (if they don't hack someone else's network.<br /><br />My message to modders? Listen to the world's smallest violin playing for you right now (hear it?).<br /><br />I also think that a logical consequence for shutting down XBox live users would be to see a switch to the PS3. It is a better system. I never wanted to pay for Xbox live because I thought it was too expensive. So I paid for the PS3. See how it works? You vote with your dollars. If you cheat and steal, you pay eventually. COD MW2 users who can't play online....now you are paying the price for stealing.

[pentest]

I think people should stop using the terms "stealing" and "theft" to describe copyright infringement and TOS violations.<br /><br />If you can't tell the difference you are stupid and should not be in the conversation.

[Bummmmer]

@pentest. You sir is the one that is not able to tell the difference.<br /><br />The "particular" copyright infringement that you are talking about is as-plain-as-day stealing. You obtained something that is meant to be sold without paying for it. It doesn't matter if it's a freaking copy of a game or an effing BMW. It is something that is not yours, and you took possession of it without permission from the owner. That in my book is stealing.

[Roklan]

Im happy they banned my system. I will kindly go out a buy a ps3. There are no new "gotta have" exclusive games announced on 360 and all of the games I did play online were multi-platform. Hell I can still download any game I want thats not an online game for my 360 and have a blast. I have to buy a snew ystem and madden anyway, why not try it out on Playstation. <br /> <br />I was looking for a good enough reason to buy a ps3 and here it is. Beides it has free online (my acheivement score was useless) free wifi (I lost my network adapter months ago) and its the same price. Plus I want to play that new ico game. Thanks for setting me straight M$ and helping me to see the light. Im ready for anybody who wants to be my first opponent in a free game of madden, and mass effect 2 will kindly be downloaded for 360

[cbscowards]

If you think there is a difference, then you are the stupid one.<br /><br />Software is not sold, it is licensed. You do not have the right to do whatever you want with it. When you duplicate it and give it away to others (or worse, sell it), you are reducing the revenue of the company that invested millions of dollars in developing the software. In other words, you are stealing their revenue. It's really not much different than you going into GameStop and distracting the clerk while your friends loot the shelves.<br /><br />So maybe you make yourself feel better by calling it "copyright infringement", but hat's just a fancy word for "stealing". So anyone who does it is a thief.

[ezxs]

True story:<br />My DVD drive broke down. Repairing it with Microsoft means sending the console to Texas and paying $100. I found a local guy who replaced the drive for me for $60 and the same day.<br /><br />Now my console is banned.<br /><br />End result - I canceled my XBox Live Subscription and my Netflix subscription.

[alskiontheweb]

...Lesson here...don't mod your console for any purpose whatsoever...not even dodging warranty repair fees.

[pentest]

Lesson here-Don't by anything from Microsoft.<br /><br />The "copyright infringment is stealing" crowd likes to use car analogies, so here is one.<br /><br />I buy a car from car maker A. It breaks down. It costs $5000 to repair at a car maker A shop and $3000 at an independent shop. I choose option B and car maker A bans me from the highway.

[Bummmmer]

@pentest<br />Your logic is flawed.<br /><br />In your example, you own the car and paid good money for it. You are also NOT bound by contract to always have your car repaired by Car Maker A (and I think you are smart enough to avoid this car if this kind of contract exist anyways). You then sir have all the right in this world to have it repaired anywhere you like and you are not breaking any contractual obligation.<br /><br />The banning of consoles from XBox Live, however, is a result of you not following it's terms of use. In order to access the service you have to use an unmodified console and a legit game. Your Xbox will still work just fine, it just won't be able to connect to XBox Live.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Pentest: <br /> <br />If you take your care to an independant repair shop that is not authorized by the OEM to make those repairs, then the OEM has every right to invalidate your warranty. Why? Because the OEM could never be positive those repairs were done correctly and if something happens, it's the OEM that will get sued for it. They are responsible for that product and when you compromise it by going to another shop, then that warranty should be voided. <br /> <br />Apple does it as well. It's just the way you protect your product.

[darkebinary]

@Vegaman_Dan <br /> <br />Actually you can take your car to an unauthorized repair shop and the dealer cannot deny a warranty on a car. That directly violates section 102(c) and section 110 of the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Even if they write it in their warranty contract, it is still voided by the act as 102(c) prevents these provisions. The only way they can deny the warranty is if they can prove such a repair caused the failure of a warrantied part. Not to say they won?t try, but you?ll likely win in court if it goes that far. <br />Not that any of that applies here. What can be compared are the rights you have buying electronics vs. a car. I?m not a fan of EULAs because they are filled with lawyer speak and are often snuck in at the final moment. They can pretty much put anything in there, as opposed to a car which has many more restrictions on what a dealer can and cannot do. I don?t agree with pirates, and I pay for all my stuff, but I do think most electronics companies are going a little too far when it comes to hardware. That includes MS, Sony, Apple, and pretty much all the major players.

[shycelticwitch]

LOL... u bad, u go to corner and stand there. Fercryinoutloud people... (those of you who think this ban is WRONG)... even a 2 year old knows he's going to get in trouble if he takes a cookie without asking. If you break the law, expect to pay the consequences. In this case I applaud MS for cracking down, and I think the ban on these people should only be lifted after they a) prove their game software is all legit or b) pay a fine.<br /><br />Better yet... if you're banned, try getting up off the sofa, go outside and get some fresh air. Perhaps it will help clear that cloud of noxious vapor from your head and you will understand why what you did is wrong.

[Random_Walk]

Agreed. :)

[CylonCheese]

I'm glad they banned them all. Cheating is one reason I haven't played anyone online in quite awhile. I have Xbox Live Gold and use the online content, game demos, Netflix, etc. Playing against cheaters ruined online play for me way too often. Now I only buy games that have good single player campaigns. It's too bad they didn't completely brick their consoles, I wouldn't have an ounce of sympathy for them!

[jtjt145]

Micro$oft on their slow way out of the software business. <br />Good on ya, Micro$oft! Concentrate on what you are doing best: MAKING MICE AND KEYBOARDS.

[kaibelf]

LOL yeah, because giving away free stuff is good business..... christ.

[pentest]

MS doesn't actually make mice and keyboards, which means that aren't good at anything.<br /><br />Open source software is a multi-billion dollar business. So giving away things for free can't possibly work.

[ajennice]

Not everyone banned was banned for modding. I got my ban last week. Don't know why and don't care why. My console was under the Best buy 1 yr replacement plan so I just returned it for a new one. I'll be damned when I got home and turned it on, it asked for a console update and came back 3 minutes later with a ban notification. Never even played a game on it. Honestly had it ( at home) for less than 8 minutes. Called XBOX and got hte run around and tough crap line they feed you. SO... off to best buy again to consult with a regional operations manger (he's driving from 300 miles away to meet with me) and filed a complaint ont he better business bureau site. <br />IfI would of got banned for a true violation I would understand. but the people at xbox won't fill you in 1 bit on why you have received a ban other than " you violtaed the terms of Use" or as I like to say "guitly untill proven innocent, however we aren't going to prove anything' <br /> <br />For those interested go to xbox.com and then into the FORUMS and go down about 6 places to "account suspension" and read some inquiries and the replies these Xbox jerks reply with.

[8301]

My experience with Xbox LIVE is that if Microsoft banned your account, you deserved it. In fact, Microsoft could randomly ban Gamertags, and the vast majority of players would probably still deserve it for a Terms of Use violation or whatever else. I've had enough experiences with loud, profane, and generally obnoxious ten-year-olds to know that most everyone on LIVE could use a good banning, yourself included, I'm sure.

[Random_Walk]

"For those interested go to xbox.com and then into the FORUMS and go down about 6 places to "account suspension" and read some inquiries and the replies these Xbox jerks reply with."<br /><br />Dude, I don't mean to sound cold-hearted, but... damn they've been busy lately...

[zincmann]

Unless Microsoft is actually going to PAY for my console, they cannot tell me how to use it or what I want to do to it. Maybe they will detect me painting it or modifying the case and shut off my DVD Drive because I am doing something it wasn't intended to be done with it. I have one regular Elite Console and one Modded Regular console, neither one I go online and pay for Xbox Live. I would NEVER pay for a service that should be free, i.e. Playstation 3's online service, I also have a PS3, which I play online with because it is free. Am I cheap? No. Its just the fact I cannot stand the cost of game titles, and you're right if I feel they are too expensive I am given the choice to not buy it and I don't. LOL. I have modded Xbox original a Modded Ps2 a Modded original Playstation. Fact of the matter is, I like gaming but will not pay the exorbitant prices they charge for games. And its not even the publishers its the stores that probably in most cases by new releases for $25 each and sell them for $60 a piece.

[CylonCheese]

zincmann....<br /><br />You can afford three game consoles but are too cheap to pay for games..... nice! I'm glad you're not on Xbox Live with me.

[anynamewilldo247]

"Unless Microsoft is actually going to PAY for my console, they cannot tell me how to use it or what I want to do to it" <br /> <br />Well you are welcome to paint it with pink and purple polkadots if you so choose. But that doesn't mean they have to allow you to use the services. They can ban whoever they want. But as I was saying below, ban away...but don't think you won't have to refund my money. If I paid for the system with the explicit purpose of using the online features and you can't prove I modded it, then I want my money back.

[zincmann]

CylonCheese thank god I am not on live with you, I find its filled with a lot of little kids and theres really no policing of the service, might as well be free Playstation Network because aside from the bans when reported kids are free to talk as they wish and sometimes intimidate others. So again Im not cheap I have my reasons...the sooner you learn about keeping the costs of a core system cheap so you buy all the expensive games you will understand business. Printers are sold cheap so you can buy the over priced ink cartridges which I dont, I buy Aftermarket and $ave a ton. I guess I apply the same mentality to everything....i believe the costs are too high, obviously 1 million others (and who knows how many more) believe the same thing.

[stiff_kitten]

Just checked craigslist. Put up today are about 15 modified XBox's for sale. A couple are honest and are admitting their console is banned from XBox Live. There are also about 20 other XBox's that are simply "For Sale" I wonder out of those 30 how many have been modified and are banned; the seller just is forgetting to mention that part. <br /><br />As of two days ago according to listings. In my area there were only about 5 XBoxes for sale. Apparently modifying ones XBox is quite popular.

[ajennice]

you're right.. but if you get banned should they provide a SPECIFIC reason other than you violated the rules.... <br /> <br />The fact they can ban someone with no specific reason is absurd. i don't care if I got banned or not, but I'd like to know what I vilated, so I don't make that mistake again. Theiur customer service and tech support states thay can not provide a reason why becasaue of the safety of the users and the xbl commuity.Safety?!?!!? so by telling me why I got banned you're putting someone at risk?? Talk saftey. You get banned at 8:30 and run to target to get a nerw one by 9 and get in a car wreck.. that's safety? <br />And then they fire the " we don't have the resources to determine why"/ OK microsoft doesn't have "reason" resources, though they have "effect" resources. <br />It's kind of like going to court for no reason and getting a jail term and not knowing why or not having the judge let you know.. In your mind you think.. heck I've jay walked, sped, ran a red light, drank a beer when I was underage, prnak called a house when I was 6....etc.. which of these (if any) am I being punished for.?

[famoussasjohn]

Read the TOS then. It specifically says if your console is modded in any way, and your console will be banned. The generic response on the "Your console has been banned for violating the TOS policy" should be blatant enough. Read through it and you will see why. <br /><br />The examples you used are very poor. <br />You knew exactly what you were getting into when you modded your xbox, the guy that makes the firmware for the xbox's even states "PLAY ON XBL AT YOUR OWN RISK!" good enough warning for you? If you get banned, you get banned, you should obviously know why you were banned if you have a modded xbox.