Are SACD & DVD-Audio already kaput? Are HD DVD & Blu-ray similarly doomed?

Neil Young's latest release is available on DVD-A.

It's safe to say most, I mean like 99 percent, of music buyers don't give a hoot about sound quality. Why else would CD sales continue to plummet and worse than CD quality downloads go up every year?

OK, that's the mainstream, what about the other 1 percent; why have the audiophiles, according to a poll on the Stereophile website, already given up on SACD and DVD-Audio? Before I cite their feedback I'd like to point out that despite the naysayers, the super sound formats are still hanging on. Neil Young's latest release, "Chrome Dreams II" just came out on DVD-A, because he still cares about the sound of his music. You can still buy Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" on SACD, and it really is one of the best sounding remasters of all time. Amazon currently lists 3,436 SACDs and 3,303 DVD-As, so anyone interested in checking out high-rez audio can do so. Audiophile labels like Telarc and Chesky Records are still putting out SACDs all the time.

Ah, but Amazon currently offers just 596 Blu-ray titles and 687 HD DVDs. Gee, I would have thought the tens of millions of people with HDTVs would have gobbled up high-rez discs by the boatload by now. Aren't Blu-ray and HD DVD supposed to be the up and coming video stars?

Ray Charles on this recently released SACD.

(Credit: Telarc)

Back to audio: thirty eight percent of Stereophile's readers believe SACD and DVD-Audio are "dead," and 23% more think the formats are "mortally wounded." Only 3% claim they're "alive and kicking." Wow, that's pretty bleak. But one guy wrote "I own about 900 SACDs. In Japan everything high-quality in Jazz, and/or classical music is issued in DSD/SACD/CD. There are stores exclusively dedicated to the format. DVD-A's pretty much dead." Somebody chimed in with the hope that SACD and DVD-A "May get resurrected via Dolby TrueHD if Blu-Ray and HD-DVD don't kill each other first." And I think another guy hit the nail on the head with, "The market has voted in favor of convenience over quality. Consumers are unwilling to purchase new hardware and make complex new connections for the sake of quality. . . But, as high speed broadband connectivity becomes more commonplace, all digital content will be distributed over the web. All physical media, including HD-DVD and Blu-ray, will become obsolete." Gee, I think, gulp, he's right.

[audio_knob]

While the comments about the availability of high res audio in Japan are somewhat encouraging, I fall into "it was never much more than an audiophile tease" camp. I discuss this in much more detail in my review of the new CD-only player from Bryston.

http://www.audio-ideas.com/canadian/bryston-bcd-1.html

Bring on high res downloads... and soon....

[spiperman]

I agree with the point regarding convenience and the decision not to purchase (and repurchase) the necessary components to keep up. When we had records - the choice was obvious. You could buy the 10.99 version of Dark Side of the Moon or you could buy the 17.99 Telarc version but you used the same turntable (well some of us did) to enjoy the remarkable difference between the two. I would gladly pay a little extra to get the audible difference - but I'm not getting a new iPod AND a new Car audio system, AND a new CD/ROM, AND a new DVD player. There-in lies the difference. Music (and now video) is no longer relegated to the home stereo (or home theater) system. It's a go every where / any time medium. If you want to talk about the market - how many SACD (or DVD-A) based tracks are on iTunes and could I hear the difference using that equipment?

[epitone]

It was because of the format war then, and it's because of the format war now. Four years ago the companies couldn't agree to support a single hi-res audio disc format, and as a result customers were first confused, then disinterested. By the time you could get a reasonably priced dual-format player, the ship had long sailed. And it won't be long before the same thing happens with Blu-Ray/HD-DVD.

Also, I've said it before but it bears repeating, I'm kind of sick of being told that I "don't care about audio quality" just because I'm one of the millions who readily consume music in digital download form. I happen to care very much about audio quality; I just have a different definition of it than you do.

[acardes]

1. SACD? DVDA? Aren't these more convenient (and thus lower-quality, of course) forms of vinyl, the "ONLY" way to listen to music?

2. There are 1/5th HD movies on Amazon than HD albums...isn't that pretty good for HD movies?
- SACD/DVDA have been around for a while longer than HDDVD/BD.
- Doesn't it cost like 100 - 1000x as much to make a big movie? Aren't there a lot more albums than there are movie releases?
- It might be better to compare the actual number of HDDVD/BD sales vs SACD/DVDA instead of selection.

3. I agree that FIOS-like bandwidths will make downloading the way to go. When that happens, I won't feel too bad when my PS3 is obsolete, cause I think it plays video games too.

4. Oh no epitone, you don't care about audio quality! I do. I have a turntable in my car and in my backpack. It sounds awesome.

[flipant2]

I?m not sure it?s about convenience as much as it is the ability to listen to music easily. OK that?s convenience kind of, but it boils down to being able to listen to a wider variety of music now then you could when all music came on plastic. 4+ million songs on Rhapsody for example. Its about the music?

Having said that, what?s keeping us from having both better quality and convenient access to music? SACD and DVD-A on plastic perhaps? In some ways talking about ?formats? is dated as FIOS-bandwidth improves. There are some new sites such as MusicGiants (musicgiants.com) and the AIX records (Itrax.com) that support HD music downloads in lossless formats that you can modify for your music services, no need to buy new hardware. Perhaps that?s a couple steps in the right direction.

[Martiat]

In my opinion, these better audio definition format could easily survive, but perhaps not under a physical form (the compact disc) which obviously implies that you have to upgrade to a new player (which will not be cheap, otherwise, why bother with these formats, the benefit of which cannot be heard on cheap material). But there is a way around. For exmaple, I use to buy HD records to download (from Linn Records, for example), but I do not burn them. Instead I store them in iTunes as such, transfer them to my Apple TV hard disk. Once done, I short-circuit the cheapd D/A converter inside, and rather use the digital optical output, which I connect to my HI-FI preamp.

Maybe, this is the way for the future, and the soound is great

Philippe Martiat, Brussels

[Johnny Mac 7]

I had an interest in SACD/DVD-A at one time but it was short lived. It wasn't because of competing formats that I lost interest but because of 1. at the time I wasn't interested in what was available on these formats (now I might be since the selection is much larger) 2. the stupid connectivity limitations (no digital connection to my receiver only analog) 3. I heard a couple of SACD demos and while they sounded good, without a direct comparison to a regular CD playing the same material no judgement could be made. 4. my hearing isn't what it used to be (maybe that's why my regular CD collection sounds just fine to me) 5. you used to be able to get a DVD player with SACD/DVD-A capability but apparently not the new HD video players. I can't hook up another piece of hardware.

[VOTHSC]

I have about a dozen DVD-A titles but I just orfaned them when I traded in my Acura. The telling sign is only Denon and Yamaha have DVD players that support the SACD/DVD-A formats and they are expensive for just plain DVD players - where are the Bluray/HD-DVD players from these companies? Maybe they feel they've been burned once by format wars.

[rxmangriff]

I have yet to walk into a store, ask if they carry DVD Audio, and have the first person even realize there is such a thing. "Yeah, we have DVDs" "Not video DVDs, audio DVDs!" "???? (puzzled look)" It's really a shame in my opinion. They sound fantastic but, like the other person, I can only listen to them in my Acura but it makes for one really nice road trip.

[AnthonyNYC]

I use to have a SD 55" Toshiba and loved it, then i seen an HD image on a new Vizio LCD and could no longer settle for the vizual quality I use to love, so i upgraded.
Same thing happens when you listen to CD's over scratchy records.
The problem is DVD-A never caught on enough for people to get to hear it and be spoiled like other formats. And I am glad cause so far mp3's still sound good to me, don't let me hear better or I might never be able to enjoy my 4,000 mp3 songs again! :)

[ematcion]

VOTHSC,

Look harder and you'll find that Oppo, Marantz, Onkyo, TEAC/Esoteric, McIntosh, Pioneer Elite, etc. all have universal players in their respective current lines. Starts at $180.00.

[NYCgoalie]

I agree with epitone in his first paragraph.

When CD's came to be, it was one standard format...which made it much easier for people to adopt. When you have competing formats, it creates a bit of chaos. I blame SONY corp for much of this, as they were the one's who created SACD and didn't work with the industry to make it a standard (like not budging on having the audio signal sent to the amps digitally...instead, opting for an analog signal in order to prevent any illegal copying of the content).

The same thing is happening with thier Blu-Ray product. Instead of working with the rest of the industry in creating a standard, they are looking to shove one standard down the throats of the marketplace; hence you have a fight.

This doesn't help anyone involved. Not the consumers, not the artist, not the engineers, not the industry, not even the SONY shareholders. NO ONE WINS IN A FORMAT WAR. If SONY would have worked with the industry instead of fighting them, we'd all have better sounding music around us. Which means Britney's over-processed voice would never have taken hold (again, another potential win we would have had).

[richmaccabe]

I read on another blog that Denon was contemplating a true universal player--HDDVD, blu-ray, DVD Audio, and SACD. I sure hope so. Right now, I have both SACD and DVD-Audio discs, and they sound fantastic in my Denon 3910 universal dvd player.. dvd's look great as well.. but it took so long for that player to be available.. And now the same thing is happening with HD video. exasperating. I wonder if any of the executives running Sony have ever actually been consumers of their own products. Sony is to be hated for never including DVD-Audio compatibility in any of their dvd players. Total disrespect to their customers. Morons. Denon seems to be the only company that has a shadow of a clue, but even yet they still don't offer a 400-disc changer to compete with sony's (imperfect) offerings in that space. If Denon would produce a 400-disc changer/transport that played HD-DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD, and Blu-Ray and would connect to their 4308 receiver via HDMI, it would be a total winner...

[ken_wilsonii]

I would agree that DV-Audio is dead, everyone I have tried sounds flat and offers nothing new to a recording.

I even tried comparing a couple HD-sound discs I picked up, again flat.
Just not enough variation to make a difference.

SACD is the best I have heard yet and in some cases makes an album I have listened to in CD, DV-Dudio and even vinyl totally sound like a new album (kind of a I get it moment with the music and what the artist was actually going for).

On review mistakenly says only 2 manufacturers make universal players
Another reviewer then set it straight

>>Look harder and you'll find that Oppo, Marantz, Onkyo, TEAC/Esoteric, McIntosh, >>Pioneer Elite, etc. all have universal players in their respective current lines. Starts >>at $180.00.

I'm not sure where the Music industry expects sound to go but the only way to improve the sound is move towrds Mutlichannel SACD format. They may end up calling it something else (TrueHD, DTS-HD) or floating about newer words such as lossless, but they still fall short of SACD as a better audio reproduction choice.

I go into Frys' nearby me and the DVD-Audio seems to get smaller every few months, the SACD one remains about the same they continue to stock and order new things for it.

SACD is no where near dead, and I would buy a Blu-ray/SACD capable player if they made them. Oh right, the PS3 does this already does this..so what are they all waiting for?

[ELEMENT005]

Newsflash... Denon makes a Blu ray player! In fact they make 2 Blu Ray players.
Get your Facts straight.

[ping100]

One major blind spot no one's touched upon is the dearth of newer pop releases in either SACD or DVD-A format. Maybe a few more people would convert if Kayne West or Kelly Clarkson or other more relevant artists were released in hi-def formats. Looking over at Amazon, the newest album which had any degree of popularity in the marketplace that was ported into SACD is Norah Jones' "Come Away With Me". That was 2003, kids. 5 years ago. Remastering little-known jazz & folk won't cut it with the majority, if you want to get a real audience. If you want to promote a format, put out big releases people want and prove they want it and need it. Example: iTunes is garbage, but they have current stars on the format. Hi-Def audio needs to "up their game".