Rush wants Apple's Time Machine to back up e-mail

Rush Limbaugh provided a little more detail Wednesday on the Mac issues that have been driving him batty (yes, more so) since he upgraded to Leopard.

The bombastic radio host has been a Mac user for years, but on Tuesday he complained on his show about issues with six Macs that he runs on a network, without providing any details. The story made its way around the Mac community to a mixture of curious and hostile responses, and now Limbaugh has outlined his two main beefs.

Rush doesn't like the fact he can't back up his e-mail with Time Machine.

(Credit: Rushlimbaugh.com)

The first one is the Back to my Mac feature introduced with Leopard isn't working on a regular basis. This is supposed to allow you to access files and applications that reside on a Mac running Leopard from any other Leopard Mac. He wouldn't be the first to report problems with Back to my Mac, and Apple has been looking into compatibility issues with third-party routers.

Limbaugh's more puzzling complaint, however, involves Time Machine. Time Machine was considered one of the more compelling reasons to upgrade to Leopard, as it's designed to make backup and restoring files--which few people actually do--a much easier process. Most of the early complaints around Time Machine have involved the inability to use it wirelessly with MacBooks or MacBook Pros unless you buy Apple's Time Capsule product, but that's not what has El Rushbo up in arms.

He's peeved that Time Machine doesn't appear to work with e-mail. "E-mail is everything, and Time Machine will not restore e-mail mailboxes. Restores everything else but that, and ought to restore either a single message or a whole mailbox, and it won't," he wrote on his Web site Wednesday.

However, Limbaugh doesn't get into how he accesses e-mail on his Mac; for example, whether he's reading it off the server or downloading the messages to his Mac. Most people in corporate-style setups read their e-mail off a server, and it's sort of hard to expect a desktop backup system to back up files that aren't actually stored on the desktop.

But if he's downloading e-mail to his desktop, that's another thing. Can he not find the folder where those files are stored? Is there actually some problem with Time Machine's ability to recognize e-mails as data? Who knows.

Apple declined to comment on Limbaugh's issues, and Limbaugh never replied to Wednesday's e-mail for comment on the issue.

[gary85739]

Just say NO!

Apple needs Rush about as much as the NFL did...

[gwailo247]

so what's next

Apple running background checks on their potential customers to make sure their Weltanschaung is in accordance with their own?

Wow, a Mac user has a problem with his computer, and he happens to be a conservative talk show host. So what is it that irks you?

That someone is publicly saying that a Mac is less than 100% perfect?

Or is that a, gasp, conservative is using a Mac? Is that the real problem? That you and he have something in common? Something you identify with a lot?

I admit Macs take a lot of bashing, so this defensive/elitist attitude is an understandable response, but yours and the comments of other people on this board paints a different picture of the Mac community.

Mac commercials seem to emphasize how easy it is to use a Mac, but if you don't know how to use one you're branded an idiot and outcast by the Mac community. How dare someone have issues after upgrading an OS on a network?

[amandachuck]

He's Been in Contact with Upper Level Techs...

And they can't solve the problem, but acknowledge it's a
problem. So it's not as if he's looking to do something that isn't
supposed to be done, or he "can't find a folder" or anything like
that. My guess is he's using mail.app.

I have this same complaint with syncing to .Mac and backup. It
seems it's perfectly willing to keep saving calendar events you
don't want anymore, but it won't transfer messages stored "On
My Mac" in mail.app to other machines. I'm in Tiger, moving to
Leopard, so we'll see if it changes, but that's a very important
feature to me. My saved mail in mail.app should be accessible
on my other machine. It's not. Only mail still in my .mac and
aol mailboxes is shared.

My guess is Rush has the same sort of issues. And it's a failure
on Apple's part.

[mroccasional]

Re. He's Been in Contact with Upper Level Techs...

Tiger does not support Time Machien or Back to my Mac so your
copm;laints are moot.

Sounds like you are using .mac syncing to sync your calendars.
.mac sync has never synced email.

Suggest you Google "POP vs IMAP" to get an understanding of
why your email is not available on different Macs. Use IMAP if
you want access from any computer.

[M C]

How is this "puzzling"?

Because those millions of us who use POP e-mail download the messages to our desktops - and that includes a higher percentage of Mac users, who have grown up with Eudora and then the original mail.app, using POP instead of the server-based mail Outlook/IMAP users do.

But it should work similarly whether the mail is stored on the client Mac or the server Mac - Time Machine should be backing up the folders.

If the server is a PC and they're using IMAP, yes, that's a problem and Time Machine will be zero help there.

But not particularly "puzzling" - just missing information.

[rebert3]

Bewildered People

I'm sure that part of it is that fact that Rush probably has some one else set up his network. I find that often it's because the person or people having the problem are inpatient. If doesn't work immediately than there's a problem.

Like the other comment said it's a matter of where the mail is stored and on what platform. I'm sure that if Rush looked at how his mail is stored and changed it to leaving it on his MAC, he wouldn't have a problem.

[qnet]

And it's the model...

Even if downloaded messages are stored somewhere in the file hierarchy, proper mail integration would allow a user of mail.app (or any other mail client that chose to avail itself of the capability) to roll back the time within the mail client and see what the message stored looked like at that time -- including rescuing deleted messages.

[nate.reeves]

is this really news worthy?

Marketing people - sounds like he's latching onto a pop-icon and telling them how to do their job.. e.g. cool by association. Otherwise, why would this even be on the radio? Is burgerboys tech support woe really news worthy??? Talk about a fart of a story.

I don't listen to his show but I bet he does it a lot with high-value brands...

[twgibson]

Maybe you should listen...

before commenting. Rush has always been a Mac user (at least 15
years that I know of) and when there's something he wants to talk
about concerning them, he does. Whenever he does mention Apple
or his Macs, there is always someone who writes a story about it.
Most of the time when he talks about Macs, it is to praise them. It's
really no different than any of us who use them. We like to talk
about how good they are and try convince people to switch.

[camp88]

Maybe he wants this for the White House

After all, the White House was mysteriously able to misplace and
lose thousands of emails relating to the Gonzo's work as the AG
and international affairs in a few countries in the Middle East, and
Valerie Plame, and . . . etc. Perhaps Rush is simply trying to help
the WH folks uphold the laws that require them to store properly
their correspondence.

That'd be newsworthy, I bet ,if all of a sudden all of those emails
were to reappear thanks to Time Machine.

[video Pal]

Why can't Rush read the help file?

All he needs to do is go to mail preference.
Then to Accounts.
go to the bottom, and the line,
"permanently remove deleted messages when"
An set to never.

Sheesh!

[cima113]

This is news???

Who cares what Rush Limbaugh wants? At least report a news worthy story like how tech could help the Sudanese people in their crisis. I cant believe that you even wasted your own time reporting this. Worse yet.... I cant believe I even bothered to reat the first line!

[cima113]

This is news???

Who cares what Rush Limbaugh wants? At least report a news worthy story like how tech could help the Sudanese people in their crisis. I cant believe that you even wasted your own time reporting this. Worse yet.... I cant believe I even bothered to read the first line!

[macspirit]

Worse yet...

...is that someone...we don't know who...has burdened you with
the task of deciding what is newsworthy for everyone else in the
world. Thanks. I think we can handle that on our own. Because
you don't happen to 'like' someone doesn't determine whether or
not they should be considered newsworthy.

[Lee in San Diego]

Don't store messages in Mail

In Apple Mail select a message you want to keep and save it to
disk, it will be a text file. That file will be backed up by
TimeMachine. You can probably even use Automater to save
files to appropriate folders

Keeping message in a mailbox slows done Mail. I don't use
OutLook, but I assume it would have a similar problem.

Rush, or others, who want to suggest things or report bugs to
Apple can use this form http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html/

[rcrusoe]

My users keep all their mail in mail.app

Some have several GB of saved mail and some have Inboxes that
exceed 1.5 GB and we have no speed problems.

My Macs attach to the server via IMAP (we allow unlimited
storage) and and also store a copy of all messages and
attachments locally (which is mail.app' default configuration).

Scrolling, etc. is fast and Spotlight searches on the largest
accounts only take a couple seconds.

[leamanc--2008]

Bet it's Entourage

I don't see any reason why Time Machine won't backup mailboxes in Mail.app. Restoring an individual message, no, I doubt it does that, but that would be something Apple should blow people away with and implement.

But I bet Rush is using Entourage, with its monolithic database. Time Machine can't rip out a mailbox out of this database and restore it; you'd have to restore your whole e-mail back to the point and time you wanted.

[gomer43]

But it DOES backup email...

...at least on MY machine it does. Maybe I'm special?

I use IMAP and store messages on the server. If I use Time
Machine to go back in time in Mail, I can RESTORE any message I
can SEE in Time Machine at that point. Is Time Machine storing
all my messages from the server? Maybe. I don't know. I just
know that even if I deleted the message, I can SEE it in time
machine and then get it back.

He's probably using Entourage. How lame!

[Riquez-001]

But?!, it does restore emails

Just tried it.
I'm in Mail & I hit "Time Machine", I can zoom back in time in my
mailboxes & see all the messages I had on previous days & restore
them - it couldn't be any easier.

[kelmon]

Life Saver

I'd just like to comment that I've had need to make use of this
function a few times in the past when I've accidentally deleted an
email that I shouldn't have and Time Machine has come to the
rescue. The only thing that bugs me about the implementation is
that the email is restored back into a Time Machine "Recovered
Messages" mailbox rather than the one that it was deleted from.

[mfassett]

huh?

I went into the library and found all my emails... then went into
Time Machine and found them all backed up... this whole thing
doesn't make sense.

[Lee in San Diego]

Hits

Maybe it is all about hits for Rush's website and radio show.

[aardvark69]

not just Time Machine

I was forced to migrate from Mac to 'doze a few years ago and the transition was fairly smooth at the time. I have since used both platforms (with greater share of non-Mac) and was forced to consider options that would smoothly transfer between them. In particular, I abandoned Mail on the Mac in favor of the somewhat clunky version of Thunderbird (someone would have to pay me to use Outlook). The problem is, Thunderbird buries its mail folders in the application folder. I don't know if it's a problem for the Time Machine, but it certainly was a problem in Windows. At one point, I installed a backup application on my laptop. When my other laptop died, I lost the ability to mirror my mail files, but, having checked off the "mail" option in the backup software, I was feel somewhat safe. When the second laptop (HP) crashed irrecoverably (both the hard drive and other hardware--apparently a common problem with dv laptops) after only 18 months of service, I went to restore the files and discovered that "mail" only meant Outlook files. Thunderbird folders were not saved. That meant that I lost between six and nine months of emails (the period between the two crashes--I manually backed up the older laptop before it died). It is not inconceivable that other backup software is plagued by similar problems, especially when there is a preferred mail application on a particular platform (the publisher of the offending backup utility has since been acquired by Microsoft).

[rcrusoe]

Funny, it works for us

Our users use mail.app connected via imap to a CommuniGate Pro
server. And Time Machine has worked as advertised for us.

Perhaps Rush should turn loose of some of his money and pay a
local 12 year old to show him how to use it.

[alegr]

Just say no to pain meds

Rush, it's easy. Meds are killing your brain.

[blatzman]

apple fixed time machine email backup

after your post implying rush limbaugh doesn't understand how email works apple fixed the problem he was having with time machine. an apple employee helped solve the problem and it will no doubt be included in a future leopard update. maybe you should listen to him a little more.

[chuckie242]

if he listened to his own nonsense, he'd be in jail.

[chuckie242]

See this is a popular Google link for this problem... so let me add my fix. I didn't know how to do it for the locally stored email (because it's been downloaded with POP, or pulled off the IMAP server) in the "On My Mac" folders. I figured that just restoring the Mail app from the Time Machine backup, by selecting it in the Applications folder, would work. It didn't.

Apparently, if you're in Mail... and click Time Machine, you'll be able to select the folder and restore it (from within Mail). I got that far, but the restore button was greyed out. Even though I could see the email... that was frustrating.

But here's how I did do it. Anyone familiar with restoring email on a PC will find this pretty normal.

Turns out that each mail folder is stored as "blahblah.mbox" files within the /macHD/users/you/library/Mail folder. Restore that folder to your hard drive.

From within Mail app, select "File, Import" then "Import data from Mail for OSX"... navigate to each .mbox file you just restored. Mail will put them in a new folder. Go to it, and there they are. Move them as you'd like.

[tompanone]

I think Chuckie242 has it right. Some other comments are right if you want to look at mailboxes saved from the same computer that you want to restore. But if you need to restore to a new, different computer the simple restore through the mail program and time machine doesn't work. I believe Rush wants to restore to new computers as I read it. That's what I've been looking for--my ten year old G4 just burned up in smoke and luckily I saved everything on time machine about a week earlier. I've been very busy restoring programs and data ever since I got a new Pro Book.

All I needed to do was the second step of Chuckie's comment--in mail menu click File/Import data from Mail for OSX then a Finder window pops up that lets you search --click time machine under devices, then navigate to Mail folder the way Chuckie says in his comment. Select all the mailboxes you want to restore and Submit. The Import will then appear in the left window of the mail program with all of the messages. (None of the restore is done through the time machine icon on the dock and you do not see the typical time machine "out in space" window. You see a Finder list of the stuff that has been saved)