Apple sees Windows 7 as an opportunity to sell Macs
Apple seems to be looking forward to the launch of Windows 7 almost as much as Microsoft, but for very different reasons.
(Credit:
Apple)
While Microsoft may see Windows 7 as a way out of the failure of Vista, Apple plans to take advantage of the launch by catering to the customers who are fed up with the Windows user experience and want to make a change.
"Users are really growing tired of Windows and the headaches it brings," said Brian Croll, Apple's vice president of Mac OS X worldwide product marketing. "We've seen this with Vista, XP, and the other Windows operating systems going all the way back."
While Apple clearly believes Mac OS X Snow Leopard is a superior operating system, the company doesn't believe it comes down to a comparison of the latest releases that will make the difference. Apple believes that for a lot of users it is an accumulation of issues.
The latest issue will be the amount of work that Windows XP users have to go through to upgrade to Windows 7. The need to erase the hard drive, install Windows 7, re-install applications, and update everything may be too much for some users to handle.
"We think a lot of folks will look at that as the straw that broke the camels back," Croll said. "People are tired of the headaches with Windows and this is another great excuse for people to check out the Mac."
Apple is also betting that many XP users who will have to upgrade their computers in order to run Windows 7 will instead choose to check out a Mac. But the cost of the new computer isn't the only thing users have to look forward to; there's also the software price tag.
For many consumers, Apple feels it has that covered too, especially with iLife, its suite of applications that includes iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD. iLife is included for free with every Mac.
"That's huge. It's a key part," Croll said. "You have the entire software environment, and you have iLife built-in. Everything you need is right there. With Windows 7 there is a lot of assembly required and even after that, it doesn't compare with what you get in iLife."
Apple declined to say if it was planning any price cuts, TV commercials, or special events at the its retail stores to welcome potential Windows 7 users.
"There's not going to be a lot of change in the Windows world," Croll said. "At the end of the day it's still Windows."
Jim Dalrymple has followed Apple and the Mac industry for the last 15 years, first as part of MacCentral and then in various positions at Macworld. A guitar player for 20 years, Jim also writes about the professional audio market, examining the best ways to write and record songs on a Macintosh with Logic Pro and Pro Tools. Jim is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. 
While Snow Leopard's release was very important, it would be more impactful to release new hardware on or around October 22nd (the Windows 7 retail launch date). It appears that new iMacs and MacBook are imminent. The timing will be interesting.
what headaches have you been experiencing?
can't recall any
I am wondering about the timing. If the news comes out right around the time of Windows 7 then the press will be mostly talking Apple not Windows.
The fact that if Apple does announce new product on the Windows 7 retail launch date would be news itself (just as the tech press has published several articles about Windows launches driving Mac sales).
The Windows 7 retail launch date has been known for a while. Apple typically announces new consumer computing hardware around this time of year, so modifying the actual announcement date would be very simple. There is probably about a monthlong ramp of manufacturing before the actual product is available to ship, so Apple's manufacturing partners are probably cranking out new units right now.
If Apple announces new product on or before Windows 7 retail launch, it will grab a lot of wind from Microsoft's sails in terms of consumer publicity.
As a shareholder of both companies, I would love to see them both succeed, but Apple clearly has a better grasp on consumer marketing than Microsoft. The Windows 7 retail release would have little impact on Microsoft's most important audience: corporate IT managers.
There's currently an issue where, for some reason, after a Snow Leopard update, Mac mail does not send e-mails out. Even after changing SMTP Port settings and login settings to the server's preference it doesn't seem to work until the folks at apple remove mac mail and then put it back in... then it works. It's an issue the only occurs with a Leopard to Snow Leopard upgrade, on certain SMTP servers... some sort of back-end error that they'll eventually patch, but it can cause an annoying and frustrating experience if you're not used to it.
Apple still don't allow you to have a 'file size' column in their spotlight search results which has been giving me headaches since 10.4
Now also the iPhone has been having coma problems and Apple refuses to let people roll back their OS on the phones.
Apple's hay-day was a few years ago but it appears their software (don't get me started on the new iMovie) seems to be on a tight downward slide. Which is a shame because I enjoyed it while Apple provided a good alternative to MS.
The real facts are Windows and OS X have never been closer. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, both are very usable and have all the software you could want.
As far as I see it the only main difference is still virus, attacks and hacks. It's been a dream to run OS X without having to overly worry about these and Windows is still the most vulnerable and hard to clean. Although if Apple keeps up the sloppy programming and keeps gaining market share there will be more attacks on the OS. But it's MS that needs to get Windows up to OS X perceived security levels that will kill Apple, everything else is sugar coating, it sometimes only takes one more virus infection to make an average consumer consider switching to Mac.
As far as I see it the only main difference is still virus, attacks and hacks.
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Try to find a WGA equivalent in OS X, or any "real" operating system for that matter.
Windows XP to 7 will be delete, format, install, install, activate, activate, install, activate, update and so on.
Sure - but that's the point: If you're going to have to disrupt your life and spend money anyway, why not step up and make (in their opinion) a long-term change for the better?
Upgrade: Insert the DVD, press install, wait a few hours, good to go.
Custom Installation: Boot from DVD, press install, wait a few hours, good to go (files will be located in a folder called windows.old)
Easy as pie :D
I switched last year from XP to Mac. I have no use for the Windows I installed at this point; when I upgrade to Snow Leopard I am doing a clean install and removing Win XP all together. Everything I need was already installed except iWork, and that took me all of ten minutes to load, max.
And if I need any of my old files...I can open them! Pages is a far better word processor than Word, and Numbers is at least as good as Excel. And I didn't have a ton of cr@pware, bloatware, and there's a distinct lack of security issues.
Is a Mac for everyone? No. But it works for me, and I like it better than my last three laptops (IBM/Lenovo, HP, and Dell) and expect my Mac to last longer than than the three others combined.
Personally, I use a 4-port one to shift between an old Mac box (pre OS 10) a Windows XP box, and a more modern Mac - all at the same work desk.
I've come to the conclusion that you are bitter that you didn't buy AAPL five years ago.
Instead, you bought MSFT and watched it slightly underperform the S&P 500 whereas AAPL is +1000% versus the S&P 500 over the same period.
I bought both around the same time, but about twice as much AAPL as MSFT, so I'm still way ahead.
The main saving grace with MSFT is dividend yielding 2%, plus the annual gratification of voting against Steve Ballmer on my proxy ballot (I vote to reelect all other board members).
CRAOple sees Windows 7 as an demise of MAC.
Get Scare Mac, get very scare.
hahaha...people out there couldn't stop laughing...just look at the comments
And how`s this.. I`ll continue (like I`ve been doing for the last 7 years) to run my Mac without a firewall active and anti-virus.
I dare you to do that with 7... DARE YOU!
LOL
And how`s this.. I`ll continue (like I`ve been doing for the last 7 years) to run my Mac without a firewall active and anti-virus.
I dare you to do that with 7... DARE YOU!
LOL
Remember your comments the next time you do updates on your MAC. Guess what; they fix bugs and security issues just like ANY other system.
If you also try and convince your father thats he's invulnerable on a MAC; enjoy the first Phishing attack he gets.
Oh..you don't run anti-virus on a MAC??; how will you tell he has a virus or trojan?
And apparently you've forgotten, but Apple's business model is to use software, content, and services to drive sales of its high-margin hardware. They want you to buy new Macs, new iPhones, new iPods, etc.
As someone who owns AAPL stock, I am quite pleased with Apple's ability to increase shareholder value. While the company certainly isn't perfect, I do not have any complaints about their overall business model or the current management's team to execute.
As someone who also owns MSFT stock, I am very disappointed that I cannot say the same things about Microsoft's current management.
What about upgrade path for PowerPC based mac users?"
@shelly--What about it?? That is old news by now. Oh, that's right, you have nothing more nor better to say.
@ckh1272 so is hardware upgrade for vista, what's your point?"
@topgunb2--I was referring to shelly's ignorance of Apple's upgrade path. It was well known, with the release of 10.5, that PowerPC was on borrowed time. So, what exactly were you trying to say?? Where did I say anything about Vista and hardware upgrades? Stick to the subject.
@ckh1272, you're feeding the trolls again. Watch your hand there!"
@Dalkorian--No doubt, but they only get one response from me. Some people just beg for a response!
Why is John Hodgman smiling? Data loss isn't the only Snow Leopard problem:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Why-is-John-Hodgman-smiling-Data-loss-isnt-the-only-Snow-Leopard-problem/1255449896
That's funny!!
This data problem is easily avoidable, and is not a permanent data loss -- only indexes are messed up. Since it is easy to avoid, we can just wait for a fix. Just like I did last year with Microsoft's Windows Home Server data corruption bug, which did result in permanent data loss when encountered. But I never was affected, just as the vast majority of SL users are not affected by this problem. After 8 months MS delivered a fix, and I am sure that Apple will deliver one too. Probalbly much sooner than 8 months from now.
"That's Funny!!" No my friend the jokes on you. What a loser.
Ignoring the reality of the issue doens't make it go away. Apple has issues it needs to deal with. This is the sort of news that hurts Apple's reputation with the public and the consumers.
some time repeat is necessary because most of the the time CRAPple fanboy don't get it.
Great timing Apple !
With the acquistion of Danger LLC, Microsoft acquired all the rewards as well as responsibilities of Danger.
Microsoft is the parent company and it is their responsibility. Danger's operations materially affect Microsoft's bottom line, the number that MSFT shareholders (like me) look at.
There is no absolution for Microsoft concerning the SideKick debacle.
My iPhone 3G(S) keeps losing music tracks when I sync it with my MacBookPro. Itunes keeps changing the libaries on me and I end up with an empty iPhone. I checked with Apple's forums and yeah, this is a known issue that happens in Snow Leopard and the latest release of iTunes.
Don't worry, it's not an issue though. I just have to keep reloading the iTunes library from other sources each time I sync. That's not a problem, right? I mean, what's 3,000 audio tracks to have to resync? Nah, no problem at all.
Glad I have a Mac. It gives me plenty of opportunity to keep reloading my iPhone. :/
According to her videotaped testimony, Windows ate Ellen Feiss' homework.
Although they won't be changing my mind as I already ordered Win7.
"Anyways what else can you expect from an underdog?"
How about a decent ROI?
Over the past five years, Microsoft has actually *slightly* underperformed the S&P 500.
Apple? +1000% vs. the S&P 500 over the same period.
As an owner of stock of both companies, I find Microsoft's current management team to be incompetent in their ability to increase shareholder value.
The Microsoft board of directors should remove the CEO and replace him with someone more effective. My recent proxy ballot reflected this as I voted to reelect every director except for Ballmer.
The PC vs Mac ads don't talk about Apple Macintosh products either, and are set only to attack Windows.
It would be a change if they actually talked about the product itself once in a while.
Everyone I know that has a mac also has a pc. What's the point in having both?
Corporate control of your hardware isn't a "feature" of any real operating system, only the one that controls it's "customers" as if they were subservient slaves.
Can you say "spinning ball"? or
"It just dont work"!
I bet your one of those pathetic fan boys that thinks he's so cool from having mac in his name eh?
Its called force quit. . . even an idiot can figure it out.
The spinning ball comes up in a variety of situations... including when you're trying to force quit an application that has stopped responding.
How do you force quit... the force quit?
;-)
High margin computers for trendy elitists?
Can money buy happiness? Concerning consumer electronics and computers, perhaps it can...
And Android is already giving Jobs an ulcer.
Individual investors like me have very little influence on the share price. Apple is predominantly held by institutional investors and funds.
That said, I have been quite pleased with AAPL performance over the past five years (+1000% versus the S&P 500).
It absolutely stuns me how incredibly lame you are, really. Every time you post, it is for non-constructive, and stupid reasons. Seriously, have you ever used SL before? How exactly is Snow Leopard a "fiasco", as you call it, and how is apple "getting smacked upside the head by win 7"? Please explain, I am sure that many of us with common sense would love to hear.
Nice job Apple.
Means defines the end
"It was an upgrade kid. "
Um, no..... Apple promoted it as a full stand alone new operating system. Note it's also 10.6, not 10.5, hence it's a NEW operating system version.
Now while we all laugh at Apple's attempt to hide the fact, the rest of the tech saavy world realizes and acknowledges that in the end, yes, this was just an OS update / service pack.
Call it what you want, but in the end if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck... then there's a pretty good chance it's an upgrade- err, service pack- damn! I meant duck.
@Perry_Clease:
"It was an upgrade kid. "
Um, no..... Apple promoted it as a full stand alone new operating system. Note it's also 10.6, not 10.5, hence it's a NEW operating system version.
Now while we all laugh at Apple's attempt to hide the fact, the rest of the tech saavy world realizes and acknowledges that in the end, yes, this was just an OS update / service pack.
Call it what you want, but in the end if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck... then there's a pretty good chance it's an upgrade- err, service pack- damn! I meant duck."
@Vegaman_Dan--Please show us anywhere that Apple called 10.6 "standalone". I have been seeing "Refined, not reinvented" since day one, so please enlighten us. If you are just going by the version number, you are indeed misinformed.
Warning - just dont purchase computers from a MUSIC SHOP, yep if it was not for music the appleshow would have die.
This artical tell us a lot about applfites who are now grasping at the last hope... oh well.
without even knowing it, you proved the Windows users argument. If you know cars you would know that Ferrari's require insane amounts of maintenance, they can't be left alone long without needing a mechanic (genius) to make sure they are working well. While Toyota builds one of the most reliable cars on the planet. Toyota makes a better economic purchase than Ferrari. Which explains Windows vs. Mac well. Windows is the Toyota, it works, works everywhere, is compatible with everything and is economically viable. Mac is the Ferrari, yeah, you look flashy but everyone thinks you are a ******, and you paid WAY more money to still drive 70mph on the interstate with the rest of us.
Please, if you know nothing about cars, then don't make dumb analogies.
Source: http://www.science-portal.org/in/71
Ferrari isn't appealing to the same relative customer as Toyota is. The same philosophy does not apply however to Apple.
So please, at least learn cars. If you want a Toyota, you need BSD, if a Honda is fine, then Linux. If you want a Ford, then Mac, (although this Ford only makes Mercury's and Lincoln's). Every os has defects, but Windows is the defect (sadly). MS painted themselves into a corner too many times in windows history, and even a vista-sized compatibility break is not enough to break free...
Why is John Hodgman smiling? Data loss isn't the only Snow Leopard problem:
http://www.betanews.com/article/Why-is-John-Hodgman-smiling-Data-loss-isnt-the-only-Snow-Leopard-problem/1255449896
Besides that you might want to see the feedback of SL on amazon!! BTW SL runs great on Pentum 4, Core 2 Duo and Core i7 w/o any problem and damn snappy!!
What SL run on your PowerPC based Mac?
"what bugs in sl are you talking about."
Go to www.apple.com. Click on support and forums. Read. It's self explanatory.
I've used Snow leopard. It's ok but I'm not a fan of Mac. I like building computers. I've actually used the program and decided I didn't like it. Have you used Windows 7? Do Mac operating systems get better with every new release? Do you think Windows gets better with every release? If not why?
On a side note, The "no viruses" debate gets old. Mac users really must stop using it. Some anti-virus software($50-$100), maybe even some ramm, and not an really an issue anymore. Haven't had a virus on my Window PC in years for that reason. Even buying that stuff, the total cost for parts and software were still not bad. And My linux machine had an even cheaper price and I've had no viruses on it in the past 4 years and didn't pay a dime for software.
There is nothing convenient about throwing away all of your current Windows application software, in order to change to a Mac.
HAHAHAHAHAHAH.........HJAJHAAAHAHAHAHHA............AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHQAHAHHA
sorry apple but wow you missed the boat!
AHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHH
Microsoft? Not so much (slightly underperforming the S&P 500 over the same period).
I expect more from Microsoft than performance equivalent to an S&P 500 index fund. I have been very disappointed with the current executive team.
Stocks are heavily influenced upon public personal of corporate entities. Just because Microsoft doesn't pursue 'glitz' and 'glamour' in the public spotlight doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad company. It just signifies that the company is more conservative with its public relations.
First of all, AAPL is primarily owned by institutional investors and funds, about 72% (versus MSFT 62% ownership by insitutional investors and funds). Thus, MSFT shares would be more affected by public perception.
Secondly, MSFT was superb stock performer up until five years ago. Apple stumbled badly in the late Nineties but has really turned it around.
Third, we recognize that Microsoft's core customers are corporate IT buyers, a relatively non-glitz group. In light of my aforementioned points, MSFT has been a complete disappointment for longtime investors who expected a respectable increase in shareholder value.
The current management team at Microsoft has talked the talk, but apparently can't walk the walk.
Trust me, many of us don't base our investment decisions on 'glitz' or 'glamour.' We look at ROI. I will point out that Microsoft has pretty good financials: gross margins, net, P/E, etc. Still, it's far less than what the market expects.
I will buy Microsoft stock before Apple stock because Microsoft has been within the top 10 in market value for over 10 years now. Long term security my key to investing. Until Apple shows that it can have stability for the long term is the day I would buy.
Get rich quick on Wall Street can lead to a nasty divorce and a lenghty bankruptcy if you're not careful..
If you want to make a quick buck, you will be better off starting your own company selling goods or services than to test your luck on Wall Street.
Oh yeah Microsoft has almost the twice the market value Apple does. Even Google is worth more than Apple and by 27 billion at that. My proof is here: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/18/global-09_The-Global-2000_MktVal.html.
Forgot to point out...In the link I gave you above Microsoft is rank 6th GLOBALLY and Apple is 38th GLOBALLY as of April 8, 2009.
In the same link...Click on profits on the top column and see that Microsoft is rank 8th in profits. 6 of those companies are oil companies, 1 is a conglomarate (GE). IBM is the closest tech company and they sit at 21. I don't see Apple not even the first page when you click on profits.
Don't get me wrong, I buy and use Apple products but I just will not invest in a stock that does not have a proven track record when delivering consistent earnings quarter by quarter for at least a decade.
Your opinion is duly noted. If you are judging your investments by 10+ years, certainly MSFT has a better overall track record than most. We agree to disagree in our investing methods, since I use a five-year timeframe.
Even then, I am willing to sell stock within a shorter timeframe if I am relatively convinced that stock A isn't going anywhere for the next couple of years and stock B is. Conversely, I will dump a stock if I believe the volatility/risk is too high. I recently shed my shares of Baidu at 400. I am okay leaving some money on the table.
Like I've said here before, I own shares of many technology companies and over the past five years (my investment gauging window), MSFT has performed poorly. Not as bad as JAVA, but most other "official competitors" and others (IBM, CSCO, ORCL to name a few) have definitely outperformed MSFT.
It's just a different investment strategy. I look for more aggressive gains in a short window than you.
This is a complete non-issue since the only upgrade candidates are Vista computers. Unlike Mac users that are forced to upgrade to the latest OS X just to continue being able to use iTunes, people use the Windows that a PC came with. If I skipped Vista (which I didn't) the XP computers would be 3-8 years old. It would be time to replace them rather than upgrading.
This is grossly incorrect.
iTunes 9.0.1 requires Mac OS X 10.4.11, QuickTime 7.6 and a G4 or newer processor.
- by tehrani625 October 15, 2009 8:13 PM PDT
- OSX and Windows based computers about about the same when it comes to stability. It takes about the same amount of time to hack Snow Lepered and Vista. They both have good eye candy (osx does it a bit better though). They both have office, and they can both do all the stuff that most people will do with their computers browse the web, porn, some music, word docs and the occasional movie.
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- by shellcodes_coder October 15, 2009 9:21 PM PDT
- Completely agree with you.
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- by cvaldes1831 October 15, 2009 9:44 PM PDT
- Actually, the graphical user desktop interface and the deployment of the mouse on a consumer computing platform both came from Apple. So Windows PCs are more Macs in drag, rather than the other way around.
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- by superswiss October 16, 2009 12:20 AM PDT
- @cvaldes1831. Actually, it came from Xerox. Get your history right. Xerox PARC invented the GUI along with the mouse. Apple "stole" the idea from Xerox. Actually, they did license it fair and square, but they didn't invent it. Over the years both Microsoft and Apple were copying ideas from each other.
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- by therealgeeves October 16, 2009 2:15 AM PDT
- This debate will never end. I suggest you use the machine that feels right for you... If hardware fails you are screwed either way. Backups are important and it is the ease of recovery that counts...
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Showing 1 of 4 pages (227 Comments)I still like Vista/ Win 7/XP better, they are battle hardened, millions of viruses and I have never had any. At least Vista is considerate enough to let me know if I am about to do something stupid, and when I tell it not to it doesn't go down easy ("UAC is off ples turn it back on KTHXBY" I get that every day). But my Gateway laptop and its WD hard drive are a year and a half old and still going strong, my school macbook's toshiba drive gave up after about 4 months, lost all my data and I was out of a laptop for a while.
So I would like to say that mac's are just pc's in drag, and Windows 7 is amazing.
Even though I have not personally used it yet, I hope that Windows 7 is amazing. I'm a MSFT shareholder, plus I use Windows PC at work. I have both personal and professional interest in seeing Microsoft deliver an improvement to the fine Windows XP operating system currently installed on my work PC.