Apple sees Windows 7 as an opportunity to sell Macs

Apple seems to be looking forward to the launch of Windows 7 almost as much as Microsoft, but for very different reasons.

(Credit: Apple)

While Microsoft may see Windows 7 as a way out of the failure of Vista, Apple plans to take advantage of the launch by catering to the customers who are fed up with the Windows user experience and want to make a change.

"Users are really growing tired of Windows and the headaches it brings," said Brian Croll, Apple's vice president of Mac OS X worldwide product marketing. "We've seen this with Vista, XP, and the other Windows operating systems going all the way back."

While Apple clearly believes Mac OS X Snow Leopard is a superior operating system, the company doesn't believe it comes down to a comparison of the latest releases that will make the difference. Apple believes that for a lot of users it is an accumulation of issues.

The latest issue will be the amount of work that Windows XP users have to go through to upgrade to Windows 7. The need to erase the hard drive, install Windows 7, re-install applications, and update everything may be too much for some users to handle.

"We think a lot of folks will look at that as the straw that broke the camels back," Croll said. "People are tired of the headaches with Windows and this is another great excuse for people to check out the Mac."

Apple is also betting that many XP users who will have to upgrade their computers in order to run Windows 7 will instead choose to check out a Mac. But the cost of the new computer isn't the only thing users have to look forward to; there's also the software price tag.

For many consumers, Apple feels it has that covered too, especially with iLife, its suite of applications that includes iPhoto, iMovie, GarageBand, iWeb, and iDVD. iLife is included for free with every Mac.

"That's huge. It's a key part," Croll said. "You have the entire software environment, and you have iLife built-in. Everything you need is right there. With Windows 7 there is a lot of assembly required and even after that, it doesn't compare with what you get in iLife."

Apple declined to say if it was planning any price cuts, TV commercials, or special events at the its retail stores to welcome potential Windows 7 users.

"There's not going to be a lot of change in the Windows world," Croll said. "At the end of the day it's still Windows."

[mistasandman]

God knows Snow Leopard turned into a miss opportunity.... Apple really knows how to scrape the bottom of the barrel.

[cvaldes1831]

Apple's business model is to use software, content and services to drive sales of its high-margin hardware.<br /><br />While Snow Leopard's release was very important, it would be more impactful to release new hardware on or around October 22nd (the Windows 7 retail launch date). It appears that new iMacs and MacBook are imminent. The timing will be interesting.

[shellcodes_coder]

snow leopard is the new Vista of Mac, it's already been proven. The only thing it's famous is for giving HEADACHES!!

[cbscowards]

There goes old shelly again, spouting nonsense. How much have you used SL, shelly? What problems have you personally experienced that give you a HEADACHE? Oh that's right, you don't own a Mac.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

@shelly<br />what headaches have you been experiencing?<br />can't recall any

[Perry_Clease]

"It appears that new iMacs and MacBook are imminent. The timing will be interesting."<br /><br />I am wondering about the timing. If the news comes out right around the time of Windows 7 then the press will be mostly talking Apple not Windows.

[cvaldes1831]

"I am wondering about the timing. If the news comes out right around the time of Windows 7 then the press will be mostly talking Apple not Windows."<br /><br />The fact that if Apple does announce new product on the Windows 7 retail launch date would be news itself (just as the tech press has published several articles about Windows launches driving Mac sales).<br /><br />The Windows 7 retail launch date has been known for a while. Apple typically announces new consumer computing hardware around this time of year, so modifying the actual announcement date would be very simple. There is probably about a monthlong ramp of manufacturing before the actual product is available to ship, so Apple's manufacturing partners are probably cranking out new units right now.<br /><br />If Apple announces new product on or before Windows 7 retail launch, it will grab a lot of wind from Microsoft's sails in terms of consumer publicity.<br /><br />As a shareholder of both companies, I would love to see them both succeed, but Apple clearly has a better grasp on consumer marketing than Microsoft. The Windows 7 retail release would have little impact on Microsoft's most important audience: corporate IT managers.

[XiroMisho]

@cbscowards<br /><br />There's currently an issue where, for some reason, after a Snow Leopard update, Mac mail does not send e-mails out. Even after changing SMTP Port settings and login settings to the server's preference it doesn't seem to work until the folks at apple remove mac mail and then put it back in... then it works. It's an issue the only occurs with a Leopard to Snow Leopard upgrade, on certain SMTP servers... some sort of back-end error that they'll eventually patch, but it can cause an annoying and frustrating experience if you're not used to it.

[aMUSICsite]

Well in snow leopard some people are having all their personal data folders deleted when they log into a guest account. That sounds like a headache.<br /><br />Apple still don't allow you to have a 'file size' column in their spotlight search results which has been giving me headaches since 10.4<br /><br />Now also the iPhone has been having coma problems and Apple refuses to let people roll back their OS on the phones.<br /><br />Apple's hay-day was a few years ago but it appears their software (don't get me started on the new iMovie) seems to be on a tight downward slide. Which is a shame because I enjoyed it while Apple provided a good alternative to MS.<br /><br />The real facts are Windows and OS X have never been closer. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, both are very usable and have all the software you could want. <br /><br />As far as I see it the only main difference is still virus, attacks and hacks. It's been a dream to run OS X without having to overly worry about these and Windows is still the most vulnerable and hard to clean. Although if Apple keeps up the sloppy programming and keeps gaining market share there will be more attacks on the OS. But it's MS that needs to get Windows up to OS X perceived security levels that will kill Apple, everything else is sugar coating, it sometimes only takes one more virus infection to make an average consumer consider switching to Mac.

[Dalkorian]

by aMUSICsite October 16, 2009 1:54 AM PDT<br />As far as I see it the only main difference is still virus, attacks and hacks.<br /><br />-------------------------------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Try to find a WGA equivalent in OS X, or any "real" operating system for that matter.

[tonylukac]

I tried a mac with snow leopard for 1 week and went back to windows. Nice that Frys gave me a full refund. After upgrading to sl os x 10.6.1 all browsers--Safari, Firefox, and Opera--would either hang or crash. Not ready for prime time. Other bloggers experienced this problem.

[roryk27]

If they buy a Mac and they are coming from XP, won't they have to do the same thing pretty much. Transfer all of their files, reinstall programs, and buy a retail version of windows. Seems like more work than it needs to be. I guess if they had just gone with Vista they wouldn't need to do all of that.

[cbscowards]

No, when I switched to a Mac last year, I decided to hold off on buying a retail version of Windows. As time went by I realized that I don't need it. I still use Quicken on my old XP box, but everything else is done on my Mac using native apps. Why give the money to MS and bloat up the Mac with a big VM when it's really unnecessary?

[Australian_Photographer]

That's an easy task though. Get a $30 Belkin transfer cable when you get the mac which many stores chuck in free. Set up the mac (about 5 mins), transfer the files using the Belkin wizard (about 30mins) and job done.<br /><br />Windows XP to 7 will be delete, format, install, install, activate, activate, install, activate, update and so on.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

you can always ask a genius to do it all for you

[Random_Walk]

"If they buy a Mac and they are coming from XP, won't they have to do the same thing pretty much"<br /><br />Sure - but that's the point: If you're going to have to disrupt your life and spend money anyway, why not step up and make (in their opinion) a long-term change for the better?

[ipv9]

roryk27, a download of VMWare converter and $59 for VMWare Fusion will allow you to convert you XP installation to a virtual machine and use it using VMWare Fusion. The VMWare Converter+Sun VirtualBox solution would require a bit more work but is absolutely free. As Gold_Storm_Mac pointed out, a Genius would happily move the files for you for free with the purchase of your new Mac.

[mrleonlee]

Installing Windows 7 is easy.<br /><br />Upgrade: Insert the DVD, press install, wait a few hours, good to go.<br />Custom Installation: Boot from DVD, press install, wait a few hours, good to go (files will be located in a folder called windows.old)<br /><br />Easy as pie :D

[drmatthewcrandall9]

**grins**<br /><br />I switched last year from XP to Mac. I have no use for the Windows I installed at this point; when I upgrade to Snow Leopard I am doing a clean install and removing Win XP all together. Everything I need was already installed except iWork, and that took me all of ten minutes to load, max. <br /><br />And if I need any of my old files...I can open them! Pages is a far better word processor than Word, and Numbers is at least as good as Excel. And I didn't have a ton of cr@pware, bloatware, and there's a distinct lack of security issues. <br /><br />Is a Mac for everyone? No. But it works for me, and I like it better than my last three laptops (IBM/Lenovo, HP, and Dell) and expect my Mac to last longer than than the three others combined.

[solitare_pax]

You can always get a KVM switch to share a monitor, USB keyboard, and USB mouse between a two computers - Mac or PC - if you don't want to lose your old XP box while trying out the new Windows 7 or Mac. <br /> <br />Personally, I use a 4-port one to shift between an old Mac box (pre OS 10) a Windows XP box, and a more modern Mac - all at the same work desk.

[artstate]

If a computer is still running XP, my guess is that it's most probably starting to get old (exception would be those with intentional downgrades). Then why force Window 7 on it? just buy a new PC that will already runs windows 7. It will most likely be more enjoyable. Apple is hoping people would buy a whole new computer simply because the upgrade would be "too much of a hassle"; basically asking them to commit to an important purchase. My question is, what's stopping them from buying a highly performant windows 7 pc (less money, same or better performance) instead of a Mac? Transfering the files would then be quite easy from the old computer to the new AND the probability that you can still install and run the same programs is MUCH higher. Basically, i'm just annoyed that they compare upgrading to Windows 7 to buying a new computer. I find their argument to be quite invalid from that point of view. They should just say: At Apple, we believe we offer a better product, and feel that Windows user will realize this and switch to OS X. It's time for friendlier competition. Both companies have made incredible advancements and it's simply ridiculous to see such bias and rudeness from each camp. Apple and Microsoft have depended on each other to bring their companies to this stage and they shouldn't forget that

[shellcodes_coder]

The new Vista OS X Snow Leopard will soon start melting after the release of Windows 7.

[Perry_Clease]

No it won't

[cbscowards]

Double posting the same drivel doesn't make your point any better.

[mistasandman]

It already is...

[shellcodes_coder]

Just wondering how those PowerPC based Mac users will upgrade from Leopard to Snow Leopard...I know some of them and they have been waiting for the release of Windows 7. There you go apple, keep on dreaming!!

[cvaldes1831]

Shelly,<br /><br />I've come to the conclusion that you are bitter that you didn't buy AAPL five years ago.<br /><br />Instead, you bought MSFT and watched it slightly underperform the S&#38;P 500 whereas AAPL is +1000% versus the S&#38;P 500 over the same period.<br /><br />I bought both around the same time, but about twice as much AAPL as MSFT, so I'm still way ahead.<br /><br />The main saving grace with MSFT is dividend yielding 2%, plus the annual gratification of voting against Steve Ballmer on my proxy ballot (I vote to reelect all other board members).

[BingItOn]

Actual article should be <br /> <br />CRAOple sees Windows 7 as an demise of MAC. <br /> <br />Get Scare Mac, get very scare.

[shellcodes_coder]

Just saw this article on tomsharewareguide: http://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-macbook-windows-7-upgrade,8864.html<br /><br />hahaha...people out there couldn't stop laughing...just look at the comments

[ckh1272]

Ah, ole' Shelly and Bing are back to spread the gospel that is name calling and misinformation. Good luck with that.

[stickfu]

Tell you what, let`s find out about February, after a good couple months of that wonderful windows registry rotting what people think of their "7" experience. I`ve just finished a month long eval for my company to see if it`s a viable replacement for XP, result?...TURD!, no sale, we`re continuing to use XP.<br /><br />And how`s this.. I`ll continue (like I`ve been doing for the last 7 years) to run my Mac without a firewall active and anti-virus.<br /><br />I dare you to do that with 7... DARE YOU!<br /><br />LOL

[stickfu]

Tell you what, let`s find out about February, after a good couple months of that wonderful windows registry rotting what people think of their "7" experience. I`ve just finished a month long eval for my company to see if it`s a viable replacement for XP, result?...TURD!, no sale, we`re continuing to use XP.<br /><br />And how`s this.. I`ll continue (like I`ve been doing for the last 7 years) to run my Mac without a firewall active and anti-virus.<br /><br />I dare you to do that with 7... DARE YOU!<br /><br />LOL

[slickuser]

How much Windoze Ultimate Crap Edition ?

[sanenazok]

Do they make looser comments edition? That would work for you.

[slickuser]

boo

[slickuser]

boo

[pentest]

What is a looser comment?

[topgunb2]

read all comments by f***user, you would know

[BingItOn]

CRAPPLe charges $29.99 for SL SP (refinement), out of which $29.98 is for the box.

[Dalkorian]

Pentest, a looser comment would be a comment that wasn't as tight as other comments.

[cbscowards]

I agree that MS has a huge miss with the lack of an XP upgrade. They had to know that millions of people held onto XP with all the Vista bad press. Many businesses skipped Vista as well. What were they thinking? I know that I won't be buying Windows 7 for any of my XP boxes. If it's that much trouble, you might as well spend another $100-200 and get a new PC that will run much faster. Or, as the article says, buy a Mac.

[Australian_Photographer]

Same here, my old Inspiron which I gave to my dad will continue on XP until it breaks. My dad is so sick of the security and updates though that even he, a long time Windows man is thinking of using a Mac.

[bananaphonerules]

@Australian_Photographer <br /> <br />Remember your comments the next time you do updates on your MAC. Guess what; they fix bugs and security issues just like ANY other system. <br /> <br />If you also try and convince your father thats he's invulnerable on a MAC; enjoy the first Phishing attack he gets. <br />Oh..you don't run anti-virus on a MAC??; how will you tell he has a virus or trojan?

[shellcodes_coder]

What about upgrade path for PowerPC based mac users?

[cvaldes1831]

Nah, Apple announced their transition from PPC to x86 four years ago. The writing was on the wall then and Apple historically removes support for legacy hardware rather quickly. Even as Leopard (10.5) shipped Apple did not hide the fact that PPC would not be supported with the next version.<br /><br />And apparently you've forgotten, but Apple's business model is to use software, content, and services to drive sales of its high-margin hardware. They want you to buy new Macs, new iPhones, new iPods, etc.<br /><br />As someone who owns AAPL stock, I am quite pleased with Apple's ability to increase shareholder value. While the company certainly isn't perfect, I do not have any complaints about their overall business model or the current management's team to execute.<br /><br />As someone who also owns MSFT stock, I am very disappointed that I cannot say the same things about Microsoft's current management.

[ckh1272]

"by shellcodes_coder October 15, 2009 9:31 PM PDT<br />What about upgrade path for PowerPC based mac users?"<br /><br />@shelly--What about it?? That is old news by now. Oh, that's right, you have nothing more nor better to say.

[topgunb2]

@ckh1272 so is hardware upgrade for vista, what's your point?

[ckh1272]

"by topgunb2 October 16, 2009 2:13 AM PDT<br />@ckh1272 so is hardware upgrade for vista, what's your point?"<br /><br />@topgunb2--I was referring to shelly's ignorance of Apple's upgrade path. It was well known, with the release of 10.5, that PowerPC was on borrowed time. So, what exactly were you trying to say?? Where did I say anything about Vista and hardware upgrades? Stick to the subject.

[Dalkorian]

@ckh1272, you're feeding the trolls again. Watch your hand there!

[ckh1272]

"by Dalkorian October 16, 2009 11:57 AM PDT<br />@ckh1272, you're feeding the trolls again. Watch your hand there!"<br /><br />@Dalkorian--No doubt, but they only get one response from me. Some people just beg for a response!

[shellcodes_coder]

Besides that new feature of deleting users files for freeing up free space. Here are some of the new innovative features of crap OS X snow leopard: <br /><br />Why is John Hodgman smiling? Data loss isn't the only Snow Leopard problem:<br />http://www.betanews.com/article/Why-is-John-Hodgman-smiling-Data-loss-isnt-the-only-Snow-Leopard-problem/1255449896<br /><br />That's funny!!

[Perry_Clease]

Is this a repeat of your troll from last night on the same subject? Go read the responses to that troll post and then move on.

[cbscowards]

Why is it funny that people are experiencing inconvenience with OS bugs? Do you get pleasure from other's misfortunes? Is that really the kind of person you want to be?<br /><br />This data problem is easily avoidable, and is not a permanent data loss -- only indexes are messed up. Since it is easy to avoid, we can just wait for a fix. Just like I did last year with Microsoft's Windows Home Server data corruption bug, which did result in permanent data loss when encountered. But I never was affected, just as the vast majority of SL users are not affected by this problem. After 8 months MS delivered a fix, and I am sure that Apple will deliver one too. Probalbly much sooner than 8 months from now.

[wimpytx93]

wow you spent all this time writing stupid comments, trying to bash apple at every chance you get. Please do us all a favor and get a life <br />"That's Funny!!" No my friend the jokes on you. What a loser.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Perry_Clease: <br /> <br />Ignoring the reality of the issue doens't make it go away. Apple has issues it needs to deal with. This is the sort of news that hurts Apple's reputation with the public and the consumers.

[BingItOn]

@Perry_Clease <br />some time repeat is necessary because most of the the time CRAPple fanboy don't get it.

[AppleSuxLeo]

And the fiasco called Snow-Jobs Leopard really helped. LOL<br />Great timing Apple !

[Perry_Clease]

How is your Sidekick doing kid?

[shellcodes_coder]

agree with you

[mrleonlee]

Wow, you do realize that Microsoft only purchased Danger. It's not like they started managing user's data themselves. Danger's engineers are at blame and it's time you grow up and realize it.

[cvaldes1831]

@mrleonlee:<br /><br />With the acquistion of Danger LLC, Microsoft acquired all the rewards as well as responsibilities of Danger.<br /><br />Microsoft is the parent company and it is their responsibility. Danger's operations materially affect Microsoft's bottom line, the number that MSFT shareholders (like me) look at.<br /><br />There is no absolution for Microsoft concerning the SideKick debacle.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@PerryClease: <br /> <br />My iPhone 3G(S) keeps losing music tracks when I sync it with my MacBookPro. Itunes keeps changing the libaries on me and I end up with an empty iPhone. I checked with Apple's forums and yeah, this is a known issue that happens in Snow Leopard and the latest release of iTunes. <br /> <br />Don't worry, it's not an issue though. I just have to keep reloading the iTunes library from other sources each time I sync. That's not a problem, right? I mean, what's 3,000 audio tracks to have to resync? Nah, no problem at all. <br /> <br />Glad I have a Mac. It gives me plenty of opportunity to keep reloading my iPhone. :/

[AppleSuxLeo]

Snow-Jobs Leopard ate Ellen Feiss` homework.

[cvaldes1831]

Incorrect.<br /><br />According to her videotaped testimony, Windows ate Ellen Feiss' homework.

[ny2nv]

Instead of slamming Windows in their ads, they should show what a Mac can do. <br />Although they won't be changing my mind as I already ordered Win7.

[shellcodes_coder]

The days of Windows 95 vs Mac is coming again. They know that. That's why they are afraid. Anyways what else can you expect from an underdog?

[cvaldes1831]

shellcodes_coder wrote:<br /><br />"Anyways what else can you expect from an underdog?"<br /><br />How about a decent ROI?<br /><br />Over the past five years, Microsoft has actually *slightly* underperformed the S&#38;P 500.<br /><br />Apple? +1000% vs. the S&#38;P 500 over the same period.<br /><br />As an owner of stock of both companies, I find Microsoft's current management team to be incompetent in their ability to increase shareholder value.<br /><br />The Microsoft board of directors should remove the CEO and replace him with someone more effective. My recent proxy ballot reflected this as I voted to reelect every director except for Ballmer.

[baconstang]

The iPhone ads, and the ads about iLife don't attack Windows. Ads are aimed, the Mac v PC ads are aimed at potential switchers.

[Seaspray0]

@baconstang. Have you noticed how many of those ads have run recently? Almost none. Why? Becuase the complaints have been mounting against apple. The ads are nowhere near the truth, nor has the OS been as good as what apple and the fanboys make it out to be. It doen't just work. It has flaws. It freezes from time to time. It's even lost user data on more than one occasion (you probabaly forgot the issue on copying files accross a network). I know several people who did switch and will be switching back to windows. Shellcodes is right about snow leopard being the new vista. It did a half-ass job of switching to 64 bit and still has lots of unresolved issues. The timing couldn't be better for windows 7. You should be affraid.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@baconstang: <br /> <br />The PC vs Mac ads don't talk about Apple Macintosh products either, and are set only to attack Windows. <br /> <br />It would be a change if they actually talked about the product itself once in a while.

[Dalkorian]

@Seaspray0, dude your credibility isn't waxing when you start defending trolls.

[eltoro2827]

Although I love my iPhone I would never buy a mac. I love my pc and look forward to win7.<br />Everyone I know that has a mac also has a pc. What's the point in having both?

[baconstang]

Good point! Buy a Mac and run both.

[Dalkorian]

Some people just don't like Mac's and that's cool. There are lots of flavors of *nix that will run on the exact same hardware you're about to contaminate with the abomination that is winblows and none of the *nix variants will try to enslave you with any WGA type nonsense.<br /><br />Corporate control of your hardware isn't a "feature" of any real operating system, only the one that controls it's "customers" as if they were subservient slaves.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Walt Goatbeard now says you don`t need a Mac.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

overbloated windows, can you say registry

[DownUnderOz]

@Gold_Storm_Mac <br /> <br />Can you say "spinning ball"? or <br /> <br /> "It just dont work"!

[mrleonlee]

@Gold_Storm_Mac<br /><br />I bet your one of those pathetic fan boys that thinks he's so cool from having mac in his name eh?

[Yelonde]

There is a quick fix to the spinning beachball.<br /><br />Its called force quit. . . even an idiot can figure it out.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Yelande: <br /> <br />The spinning ball comes up in a variety of situations... including when you're trying to force quit an application that has stopped responding. <br /> <br />How do you force quit... the force quit?

[Dalkorian]

@Gold_Storm_Mac, not without vomiting a little in the back of my throat.<br />;-)

[Dalkorian]

I call bull once again Dan (you're building quite a reputation, aren't you). Proof?

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

atleast in os x when i force quit something it actually quits instantly. allowing to restart app fast.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

if only ms shills would use a mac. they would understand. but they are just what they are.

[DownUnderOz]

Yep a bug filled SL mess.

[unknown unknown]

"they would understand. but they are just what they are."<br /><br />High margin computers for trendy elitists?

[cvaldes1831]

Oddly enough, Apple customers always top customer satisfaction surveys: computers, MP3 players, smartphones, whatever.<br /><br />Can money buy happiness? Concerning consumer electronics and computers, perhaps it can...

[Seaspray0]

I did use one exclusively for a month (which is ample time to get very familiar with it). I was not impressed and was very happy to get back to my PC.

[End-User4]

People who like to upgrade and build their computers when they want instead of waiting on Mac to eventually incorporate the hardware into one of their machines? I think I'll will stick with Linux and Microsoft.

[AppleSuxLeo]

Apple is getting smacked upside the head by Win 7 , just like 95 did.<br />And Android is already giving Jobs an ulcer.

[baconstang]

It will be interesting to see Apples numbers on Monday.

[cvaldes1831]

Historically, Apple's guidance is very conservative, so the savvy reader would expect them to outperform. That said, Apple's stock often sags a bit even after a good earnings announcement.<br /><br />Individual investors like me have very little influence on the share price. Apple is predominantly held by institutional investors and funds.<br /><br />That said, I have been quite pleased with AAPL performance over the past five years (+1000% versus the S&#38;P 500).

[Yelonde]

@applesuxleo<br /><br />It absolutely stuns me how incredibly lame you are, really. Every time you post, it is for non-constructive, and stupid reasons. Seriously, have you ever used SL before? How exactly is Snow Leopard a "fiasco", as you call it, and how is apple "getting smacked upside the head by win 7"? Please explain, I am sure that many of us with common sense would love to hear.

[Dalkorian]

@Yelonde, you're feeding one of the most notorious trolls on these boards. Watch your hands!

[anilsudh]

And Windows7 will give you cancer.

[AppleSuxLeo]

A $30 service pack that deletes your data...<br />Nice job Apple.

[Perry_Clease]

It was an upgrade kid.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

snow leopard brought cosmetic changes, new expose, improved stacks and tons of little features (over 90%). new preview, new quicktime X. plus exchange (windows doesn't have built in). plus extremely changed underbelly.

[mrleonlee]

@Perry_Clease<br /><br />Means defines the end

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Perry_Clease: <br /> <br />"It was an upgrade kid. " <br /> <br />Um, no..... Apple promoted it as a full stand alone new operating system. Note it's also 10.6, not 10.5, hence it's a NEW operating system version. <br /> <br />Now while we all laugh at Apple's attempt to hide the fact, the rest of the tech saavy world realizes and acknowledges that in the end, yes, this was just an OS update / service pack. <br /> <br />Call it what you want, but in the end if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck... then there's a pretty good chance it's an upgrade- err, service pack- damn! I meant duck.

[Dalkorian]

Now you're just trying to be funny, aren't you Dan.

[ckh1272]

"by Vegaman_Dan October 16, 2009 10:45 AM PDT<br />@Perry_Clease: <br /><br />"It was an upgrade kid. " <br /><br />Um, no..... Apple promoted it as a full stand alone new operating system. Note it's also 10.6, not 10.5, hence it's a NEW operating system version. <br /><br />Now while we all laugh at Apple's attempt to hide the fact, the rest of the tech saavy world realizes and acknowledges that in the end, yes, this was just an OS update / service pack. <br /><br />Call it what you want, but in the end if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck... then there's a pretty good chance it's an upgrade- err, service pack- damn! I meant duck."<br /><br />@Vegaman_Dan--Please show us anywhere that Apple called 10.6 "standalone". I have been seeing "Refined, not reinvented" since day one, so please enlighten us. If you are just going by the version number, you are indeed misinformed.

[DownUnderOz]

Gee apple needs some rays of help, with only 8% of the computer market after all these years... however, the bug filled Mac OS X Snow Leopard will lower that %, its a dud. <br /> <br />Warning - just dont purchase computers from a MUSIC SHOP, yep if it was not for music the appleshow would have die. <br /> <br />This artical tell us a lot about applfites who are now grasping at the last hope... oh well.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

i guess ferarri needs to be making better cars with its market share. toyota has outclassed them.

[fortyonejb]

@Gold_Storm_Mac<br /><br />without even knowing it, you proved the Windows users argument. If you know cars you would know that Ferrari's require insane amounts of maintenance, they can't be left alone long without needing a mechanic (genius) to make sure they are working well. While Toyota builds one of the most reliable cars on the planet. Toyota makes a better economic purchase than Ferrari. Which explains Windows vs. Mac well. Windows is the Toyota, it works, works everywhere, is compatible with everything and is economically viable. Mac is the Ferrari, yeah, you look flashy but everyone thinks you are a ******, and you paid WAY more money to still drive 70mph on the interstate with the rest of us. <br /><br />Please, if you know nothing about cars, then don't make dumb analogies.

[tehrani625]

Ferarri doesn't want to beat Toyota though, and they don't decide to release a new car whenever Toyota does so that they can downplay the Toyota release.

[jacksoncapper]

8% of the computer market is absolutely huge. That's over 80 million computers sold if you consider there being 1 billion computers as of 2008 according to Forrester Research.<br /><br />Source: http://www.science-portal.org/in/71

[mrleonlee]

@Gold_Storm_Mac<br /><br />Ferrari isn't appealing to the same relative customer as Toyota is. The same philosophy does not apply however to Apple.

[gabeheim]

Alright, fortyonejb, windows is the GM of cars. It runs quite well the day you buy it. Then once you hit 40-50k miles, you start leaking oil, or blow a head gasket (happened to my mother's well-maintained Alero). Windows is no toyota. Well, okay, if you drained the oil to about a quart, ran for about ten minutes, went 90 mph over steel plates and sideswiped the doors against some concrete freeway medians, then your toyota will be like a little more like windows... Then again, my grandma's 81 corolla ran for over a year on three cylinders (my great-uncle, who she thought was the "car guy" couldn't figure out it was a dead spark plug wire), and once we fixed it, it ran smoothly. So, still, no windows, even after you abuse it.<br /><br />So please, at least learn cars. If you want a Toyota, you need BSD, if a Honda is fine, then Linux. If you want a Ford, then Mac, (although this Ford only makes Mercury's and Lincoln's). Every os has defects, but Windows is the defect (sadly). MS painted themselves into a corner too many times in windows history, and even a vista-sized compatibility break is not enough to break free...

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

what bugs in sl are you talking about. windows has bugs too. what will it take for people to realize that macs are generally more stable than windows. of course if you listen to shelly and the other guy, your view may differ.

[shellcodes_coder]

Dude, try 7, it's more stable than that buggy SL. SL isn't buggy, uhhmm: <br />Why is John Hodgman smiling? Data loss isn't the only Snow Leopard problem:<br />http://www.betanews.com/article/Why-is-John-Hodgman-smiling-Data-loss-isnt-the-only-Snow-Leopard-problem/1255449896<br /><br />Besides that you might want to see the feedback of SL on amazon!! BTW SL runs great on Pentum 4, Core 2 Duo and Core i7 w/o any problem and damn snappy!!

[shellcodes_coder]

*BTW 7 runs great on Pentum 4, Core 2 Duo and Core i7 w/o any problem and damn snappy!!<br />What SL run on your PowerPC based Mac?

[shellcodes_coder]

*about

[shellcodes_coder]

*Does

[stickfu]

Nice try 7 is a slow moving TURD, all will be revealed in the coming months, can`t wait for the those Microsoft stores to open, Comedy live! might get a bit dangerous for those gurus working there, hope they get issued kevlar.

[Vegaman_Dan]

@Gold_Storm_Mac: <br /> <br />"what bugs in sl are you talking about." <br /> <br />Go to www.apple.com. Click on support and forums. Read. It's self explanatory.

[BingItOn]

I highkly doubt looking at Gold_Storm_Mac comments, (s)he ever used SL Service pack. It is a mess.

[Gold_Storm_Mac]

running sl right now. have not encountered more than a minor bug in safari. not bad for a new OS.

[End-User4]

@ Gold_Storm_Mac<br />I've used Snow leopard. It's ok but I'm not a fan of Mac. I like building computers. I've actually used the program and decided I didn't like it. Have you used Windows 7? Do Mac operating systems get better with every new release? Do you think Windows gets better with every release? If not why?<br /><br />On a side note, The "no viruses" debate gets old. Mac users really must stop using it. Some anti-virus software($50-$100), maybe even some ramm, and not an really an issue anymore. Haven't had a virus on my Window PC in years for that reason. Even buying that stuff, the total cost for parts and software were still not bad. And My linux machine had an even cheaper price and I've had no viruses on it in the past 4 years and didn't pay a dime for software.

[john55440]

Apple/Mac's window of opportunity was when the media was constantly bashing Vista. With the release of Windows 7, that window of opportunity is closed. Windows 7 is so good, that even Apple Fanboy Walt Mossberg had nice things to say about it. <br /> <br />There is nothing convenient about throwing away all of your current Windows application software, in order to change to a Mac.

[sanenazok]

Exactly - Apple could have benefitted from Vista's bad rep, but that would have meant releasing a reasonably priced system. That may happen someday, when MS releases Windows 10.

[baconstang]

They did. Apples domestic share roughly doubled in the last 4 years.

[shellcodes_coder]

agree with you

[baconstang]

Shelly's very agreeable tonight.

[TinyIoda]

all ive got is... <br /> <br />HAHAHAHAHAHAH.........HJAJHAAAHAHAHAHHA............AAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHQAHAHHA <br /> <br />sorry apple but wow you missed the boat! <br /> <br />AHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAHH

[cvaldes1831]

Again, as a shareholder of both companies, I will point out that Apple has executed very well over the past five years (+1000% vs. the S&#38;P 500).<br /><br />Microsoft? Not so much (slightly underperforming the S&#38;P 500 over the same period).<br /><br />I expect more from Microsoft than performance equivalent to an S&#38;P 500 index fund. I have been very disappointed with the current executive team.

[mrleonlee]

@cvaldes1831<br /><br />Stocks are heavily influenced upon public personal of corporate entities. Just because Microsoft doesn't pursue 'glitz' and 'glamour' in the public spotlight doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad company. It just signifies that the company is more conservative with its public relations.

[cvaldes1831]

Your comment makes no sense. "Public personal"?<br /><br />First of all, AAPL is primarily owned by institutional investors and funds, about 72% (versus MSFT 62% ownership by insitutional investors and funds). Thus, MSFT shares would be more affected by public perception.<br /><br />Secondly, MSFT was superb stock performer up until five years ago. Apple stumbled badly in the late Nineties but has really turned it around.<br /><br />Third, we recognize that Microsoft's core customers are corporate IT buyers, a relatively non-glitz group. In light of my aforementioned points, MSFT has been a complete disappointment for longtime investors who expected a respectable increase in shareholder value.<br /><br />The current management team at Microsoft has talked the talk, but apparently can't walk the walk.<br /><br />Trust me, many of us don't base our investment decisions on 'glitz' or 'glamour.' We look at ROI. I will point out that Microsoft has pretty good financials: gross margins, net, P/E, etc. Still, it's far less than what the market expects.

[1g2j]

@ cvaldes1831 <br /> <br /> I will buy Microsoft stock before Apple stock because Microsoft has been within the top 10 in market value for over 10 years now. Long term security my key to investing. Until Apple shows that it can have stability for the long term is the day I would buy. <br /> <br /> Get rich quick on Wall Street can lead to a nasty divorce and a lenghty bankruptcy if you're not careful.. <br />If you want to make a quick buck, you will be better off starting your own company selling goods or services than to test your luck on Wall Street. <br /> <br /> Oh yeah Microsoft has almost the twice the market value Apple does. Even Google is worth more than Apple and by 27 billion at that. My proof is here: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2009/18/global-09_The-Global-2000_MktVal.html. <br />Forgot to point out...In the link I gave you above Microsoft is rank 6th GLOBALLY and Apple is 38th GLOBALLY as of April 8, 2009. <br /> <br />In the same link...Click on profits on the top column and see that Microsoft is rank 8th in profits. 6 of those companies are oil companies, 1 is a conglomarate (GE). IBM is the closest tech company and they sit at 21. I don't see Apple not even the first page when you click on profits. <br /> <br />Don't get me wrong, I buy and use Apple products but I just will not invest in a stock that does not have a proven track record when delivering consistent earnings quarter by quarter for at least a decade.

[1g2j]

Correction: Apple is on the first page .... #17 from the bottom. I didn't like feel like counting from the top to bottom since they are so far down on the Profits rankings. I've overlooked but caught it too late.

[cvaldes1831]

@1g2j:<br /><br />Your opinion is duly noted. If you are judging your investments by 10+ years, certainly MSFT has a better overall track record than most. We agree to disagree in our investing methods, since I use a five-year timeframe. <br /><br />Even then, I am willing to sell stock within a shorter timeframe if I am relatively convinced that stock A isn't going anywhere for the next couple of years and stock B is. Conversely, I will dump a stock if I believe the volatility/risk is too high. I recently shed my shares of Baidu at 400. I am okay leaving some money on the table.<br /><br />Like I've said here before, I own shares of many technology companies and over the past five years (my investment gauging window), MSFT has performed poorly. Not as bad as JAVA, but most other "official competitors" and others (IBM, CSCO, ORCL to name a few) have definitely outperformed MSFT.<br /><br />It's just a different investment strategy. I look for more aggressive gains in a short window than you.

[sanenazok]

This is what happens when marketing people are allowed to make comments, without thinking them through. Oh yeah it's such a pain to follow an upgrade wizard and transfer settings. Boo whoo. I know, I'll switch over to a completely different platform, instead! That sounds much simpler! Rather than having to reinstall my software, I'll have to re-buy it (if it's available for OS X, which it may not) and install it all over. Oh and my settings won't transfer since it's a completely different system. Thanks Apple!<br /><br />This is a complete non-issue since the only upgrade candidates are Vista computers. Unlike Mac users that are forced to upgrade to the latest OS X just to continue being able to use iTunes, people use the Windows that a PC came with. If I skipped Vista (which I didn't) the XP computers would be 3-8 years old. It would be time to replace them rather than upgrading.

[cvaldes1831]

"Unlike Mac users that are forced to upgrade to the latest OS X just to continue being able to use iTunes..."<br /><br />This is grossly incorrect.<br /><br />iTunes 9.0.1 requires Mac OS X 10.4.11, QuickTime 7.6 and a G4 or newer processor.

[sanenazok]

So I can use the same version of iTunes on Windows XP from 2002, but I can't use it on OS X from earlier than April 2005. Oh yeah, OS X isn't an upgrade mill at all. Same with iWork, nothing before 10.4.11

[tehrani625]

OSX and Windows based computers about about the same when it comes to stability. It takes about the same amount of time to hack Snow Lepered and Vista. They both have good eye candy (osx does it a bit better though). They both have office, and they can both do all the stuff that most people will do with their computers browse the web, porn, some music, word docs and the occasional movie.<br /><br /> I still like Vista/ Win 7/XP better, they are battle hardened, millions of viruses and I have never had any. At least Vista is considerate enough to let me know if I am about to do something stupid, and when I tell it not to it doesn't go down easy ("UAC is off ples turn it back on KTHXBY" I get that every day). But my Gateway laptop and its WD hard drive are a year and a half old and still going strong, my school macbook's toshiba drive gave up after about 4 months, lost all my data and I was out of a laptop for a while.<br /><br /> So I would like to say that mac's are just pc's in drag, and Windows 7 is amazing.

[shellcodes_coder]

Completely agree with you.

[cvaldes1831]

Actually, the graphical user desktop interface and the deployment of the mouse on a consumer computing platform both came from Apple. So Windows PCs are more Macs in drag, rather than the other way around.<br /><br />Even though I have not personally used it yet, I hope that Windows 7 is amazing. I'm a MSFT shareholder, plus I use Windows PC at work. I have both personal and professional interest in seeing Microsoft deliver an improvement to the fine Windows XP operating system currently installed on my work PC.

[superswiss]

@cvaldes1831. Actually, it came from Xerox. Get your history right. Xerox PARC invented the GUI along with the mouse. Apple "stole" the idea from Xerox. Actually, they did license it fair and square, but they didn't invent it. Over the years both Microsoft and Apple were copying ideas from each other.

[therealgeeves]

This debate will never end. I suggest you use the machine that feels right for you... If hardware fails you are screwed either way. Backups are important and it is the ease of recovery that counts...