Apple to ship Mac OS X Snow Leopard Aug. 28
Apple will ship its newest operating system to customers a little earlier than expected. The company said Monday that Mac OS X Snow Leopard will be available this Friday, August 28.
(Credit:
Apple)
Apple made it clear from the beginning that Snow Leopard was not as much about adding new features as it was about refining the code in the operating system.
For instance, according to Apple, 90 percent of the Mac OS X code has been worked on for the Snow Leopard release. This isn't just application code, it also includes working on the Finder, making it more responsive.
Apple says that Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard is half the size of the previous operating system and frees up to 7GB of drive space once installed. No doubt this has to do with the refinements in the operating system, but Snow Leopard also only supports Macs with an Intel-based processors, not the older PowerPC processors.
As for speed increases in Snow Leopard, Apple said that its Mail application loads messages twice as fast, Time Machine does its initial backup 80 percent faster, and the included 64-bit version of Safari is up to 50 percent faster.
Snow Leopard also supports Exchange Server 2007. This means that you can use Mac OS X Mail, Address Book and iCal out of the box with Exchange.
Mac OS X Snow Leopard will cost $29 as an upgrade for Leopard users. For Mac OS X Tiger users, the Mac Box Set, which includes Mac OS X Snow Leopard, iLife '09 and iWork '09, will cost $169.
Apple had said at its Worldwide Developers Conference in June that Snow Leopard would go on sale in September, though more recently some tech blogs had been bandying about an August 28 date.
Jim Dalrymple has followed Apple and the Mac industry for the last 15 years, first as part of MacCentral and then in various positions at Macworld. Jim also writes about the professional audio market, examining the best ways to record music using a Macintosh. He is a member of the CNET Blog Network and is not an employee of CNET. He currently runs The Loop. You can follow him on Twitter @jdalrymple. 
Install Linux on your overpriced mac, or better yet, buy a much cheaper PC with lots of free software available on sourceforge, and use Firefox. Dump the Mac and save the money.
Oh, they are already here.
"Install Linux on your overpriced mac"
No, no, no and NO!
Why not just use what you think is the best OS? Everyone has their own right to choose. If I want to pay for OS X, then I'll pay for it. I also use linux but their is no argument that OS X is easier to setup and use on a daily basis.
The reason why people buy macs for the OS X operating system is because it is the most stable and efficient operating system on the market! I would rather pay $1000+ over a $300 Windows computer with the same specs...all because of the Operating System.
Leopard is amazing, and Snow Leopard should be a faster, better Leopard...too bad my 12" Powerbook G4 won't get to test drive it.
I just wanted to point out that it's not all about the overpricing of a mac, Apple prices their products based on what they offer. So if you want the much better Unix based platform with better interface and a great multimedia program built right in, plus much better design and ease of use, you would pick the Mac and just go with it's price. Linux hasen't impressed anyone like Leopard (and Snow Leopard) or even Windows.
Mac's just get things done, without hassle. PC's are great for hackers and number crunchers, and those people rarely have any understanding of creativity anyway
That explains why my babied mid-2007 MacBook is on its 3rd HDD and 4th keyboard and seems to be currently ingesting its battery (the casing is swelling and warping). I do like the Mac, but to say it does it all without hassle is simply ridiculous.
It's a good OS, but I'm nearly as fond of Slackware Linux, which I've been using since '95. I haven't used anything later than XP in the Windows world, but I never found much to complain about there, either. Just figure out what they do and how they do it and ANY operating system will very nicely get the job done.
Hardware-wise, I'd suggest that pretty much any manufacturer has its share of gems and dogs. Nobody (and nothing) is perfect. Fanboys suck.
Windows 7 is Microsofts "Hey we F'ed up big time". At least Snow Leopard is breaking new ground. Windows 7 is just getting Microsoft back to the point they were at with Windows XP.
"At least Snow Leopard is breaking new ground"
Breaking what new ground? Didn't apple say that 90% of the coding in SL is just OSX refined? How is that breaking new ground? In fact, what new ground are they breakin gat all?
So yeah, I'd say they are at least advancing their OS, whereas Microsoft is still playing catch up to themselves. Perhaps breaking ground was too strong of an expression
New features suck. I would never buy a new operating system for them. It is all about speed performance and reliability. (While I generally don't like my OS crammed with useless new garbage I must say Time Machine is the best incremental backup software I have used).
I completely agree with you guys. I am glad someone on this site actually understands the enormity of the task Apple undertook, and completed ahead of schedule. I too consider speed to be a great feature. I was just trying to get these Windows trolls to shut it. I guess I should have stood by my convictions more. When Apple rewrites 90% of its code, amazing things happen. When Microsoft attempts the same thing, well I think Vista speaks for itself...
Yes, I do have a MacBook. Pretty much the only reason is because I am an iPhone user, and Mac OS X works a lot better with it than Linux.
And while I find OSX quite elegant and easy to use, I don't find it really any easier. The UIs - from KDE to Vista - have all gotten fairly easy, once you're familiar with how they work.
Your comment Sounds like a whine by an umemplyed American.
Linux is not a main strem product, even when is free and actually a good product, want to get a clue? It isn't ui friendly. We might get arround that
but in general people wouldn't and don't like it.
Get a cheaper pc? Cheaper? I know you meant to say less expensive but that's what they actually are cheaper pc's. They have a cheaper os. Even of some of them do match the built in quality of a mac it will be for a comparable price and still lagg when it comes to os.
Windows 7 looks promising but osx snow leopard deliver and I don't need to hold my breath.
In a sence this sort of mac is cool and winblows is an old personal argument. Fact is that macs are generary better thus their price. Their os is the most stable in the plannet and you could look that up and those my friend, are facts. Btw Steve job I believe only makes $1 per year.....
Be wise
"mac is cool and winblows is an old personal argument." Are you 12? Do you buy something because it is cool, or because it does what you need? If the first option is your way of life, well, good for you. But most people need something that works properly, and does what it needs to do: Be it Windows, Linux or OS X.
"Windows 7 looks promising but osx snow leopard deliver". You probably didn't even try Win 7 nor Snow Leopard, so I don't understand how can you judge something without trying.
"Linux is not a main stream product". Nor is OS X. Most people use Windows, like it or not. Is it better than OS X? I don't know, but that's a fact. From my experience with Windows (from 3.11 to Vista), it as always done what I needed, and it gets better with time. The same with OS X and Linux.
"Their os [OS X] is the most stable in the planet" How do you know that? Did you check every Mac out there? Macs have problems, Windows based PCs have problems.
People use different OSes because that is what they are used to, they do what they need, they are free, etc.
So enjoy your "cool" OS and let others choose what they want.
This comment isn't meant in a negative way, just letting you know.
Before you go rip someone's comment, maybe you should spell check and grammar check your post first. I actually feel less intelligent after reading your posting. Maybe you should spend less time stroking your Mac and spend more time learning proper English."
Because only people who are fluent in English comment here right?? Way to pass judgement on someone you know nothing about. You grammar nazis really need to get a life or get laid for once. Sorry for my bluntness but this kind of non-sense is just getting too stupid for words.
This website is in English. If you aren't fluent in English, don't freaking comment. It's as simple as that. It's not being a grammar nazi to tell someone to shut the f*** up and learn how to communicate.
This website is about technology not the rules of English grammar. If you don't have anything to say about technology, please comment somewhere else (I can point you to some nice boards for post grad English Lit).
Just because someeone mizspellerizes some of his wordz that is not to say you kan't understand hiz meaning. Creative gramarification is an artform.
I posted from my iphone which tends to be a little harder than my mac. And yes i will agree with you guys that grammar makes people sound smarter "sound" and cheaper doesnt not only mean less expensive my "smart friend"
it could mean this Adjective
cheap (comparative cheaper, superlative cheapest)
Positive
cheap
Comparative
cheaper
Superlative
cheapest
1. Low and/or reduced in price.
2. Of poor quality.
3. Of little worth.
4. (slang, of an action or tactic in a game of skill) unfairly powerful.
sorry for my bad grammar.
And please people stop nitpicking grammar to bash someone, this is cnet. and this is the slogan (CNET is the premier destination for tech product reviews, news and price comparisons, free software downloads, daily videos, and podcasts.) see anything on grammar here?????
and yes, im 12 and is a shame that you "grown ups" can't make a better point than me. spell check this.......
Mac OSX is what Linux wants to be when it grows up (whenever that is). Too many cooks in the kitchen if you ask me. I've used Linux since 1998, and still turned off by the Linux GUI (take your pick of one of them). I'll stick with Mac. ... peace.
Mac's can be expensive, but then what isn't... How many clients do I have running Norton Security for $80+ per year and still have no peace when it comes to system security or otherwise. Linux and Mac are about as on par for security as it may come, but Linux is till WAY TOO confusing for the average Joe and people are simply not willing to do much different when it comes to PCs. Actually, that is why most people still use WindBlows...because the work for institutions who get it practically for free and are unwilling to migrate and move to something better.
I'm looking forward to Snow Leopard for a number of reasons...but mostly for it efficiency and house cleaning.
I love hearing about the Snow Leopard update that requires 7gb of less storage for it resources and won't cost me $300 to get all the features (i.e., Windows 7 Ultimate). Ubunto looks promising, but out of my 80 or so clients...not one of them uses Linux and of that group we have 20 Mac users which number is growing every day. Sorry Linux, you have a huge uphill battle against Mac OS and Windows 7.
1. AV is free
2. Mac OS X is just as hole filled as Windows, but people don't target it anywhere other than hacking competitions
3. the UI's of some flavors of Linux are less confusing than windows or OS X
4. agree with Linux having an uphill battle against OS X/Windows
some people (sadly) depend on this OS to host their app$. (final cut, protools, logic audio).
there simply is NO alternative if you want to get paid in a professional environment. it's too fast paced to **** about with alternatives.
i'm not saying that the tools you're listing aren't good - they're probably great for someone running a home studio - or even a small studio business. However, as soon as you're writing for screen, you have to play ball with everyone else. That means Logic, Protools and to a lesser extent Digital Performer.
Macs can run sourceforge programs as well, through X11 (gimp, openoffice, et cetera). Why buy a PC or install Linux? PC's are full of bloated Microsoft software, crapware, and resource hogging malware software. Linux isn't popular because it requires a great deal of user tweaks and isn't geared towards the general computing population.
What this shows is that Apple is being proactive in maintaining their code base, as opposed to Microsoft who programs more and more on top of old code, creating a behemoth operating system that is hardware intensive, requiring more hardware to effectively run than a comparable Mac system.
In the end, your better off with a Mac. It will cost you less headache, money, and time in the long run.
Linux is easier than OS X/Windows if people would give it a chance
No go dude. Sorry. I like Linux too. I run Ubuntu on my PC hardware at home. I run OSX on my primary home computer, and I work strictly with Windows at work. I have many hours on each platform. Linux is just not there yet when it comes to ease of use.
They are getting better though.
Amen
Yeah, whatever.
Nice try. I installed Ubuntu on two separate computers just to try it out. Although it works well for a hobbyist or someone like me who is willing to play around, there is no way on earth that I'm going to ask my wife to use it. If you honestly believe Linux is ready for prime time on the desktop, you are spending too much time with your techie buddies and not enough time with average users.
Win7 ultimate runs fine on a netbook
Linux is easier than OS X/Windows if people would give it a chance"
That is too funny. I tinker around with linux and I like the tweaking options, but its overall ease of use does not compare with OSX or WIndows, not even close.
You're right, though, PCs are full of bloated software, not all of it from Microsoft. Take iTunes for example, that thing is made by Apple comes pre-installed on Macintoshes and uses way more resources than it should. D:
Win7 ultimate runs fine on a netbook
Linux is easier than OS X/Windows if people would give it a chance
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yeah! sure it is! right after you build and compile your own drivers for all of your hardware that's not supported.... oh, and after they figure out how to join a wireless network.
I use Ubuntu at home, it's on an htpc running xbmc... I like it, but I think you're insane if you think it's easier to use than osx or windows. Actually, it's not even using it.... it's getting it to work properly in the first place.
I'll settle for the update since I have Leopard, and I'll stick with my older versions of iLife and iWork for the time. Sure my Mac's up front cost was higher (than a typical PC), but as the years pass the software upgrade cost/s seems lower than the times of buying Win95, Win98, Win-Me, and Win-XP upgrades...
But I could be wrong. I forget how much win95 cost, but I do remember I got it on 13 or 14 floppy discs - couldn't afford both the OS and a CD reader back then.
2 iLife sucks, there are open source alternatives that are far superior on Mac, Windows, and Linux
Your bias is shining really bright. iWork isn't the best, but their keynote app destroys powerpoint. iLife is far too well integrated to be in the same room with all the open source alternatives that you could cobble together. Your credibility is suffering greatly.
Amen
2 things:
First, iWork does not suck. In my opinion, its faster, smarter, and more straightforward than Office. Sure, it lacks the power of Excel, but 90% of the population doesn't need that kind of power. Its great at what it does.
Second, iLife doesn't suck. Just ask the reviews here at Cnet. Its a great suite, and a bargain at $79. And I would love to hear what alternatives are better than iLife. And please, do not tell me that Windows Movie Maker is an alternative to iMovie. Because its not.
Don't hate on Macs just because you are so loyal to Microsoft you can't stand to see them falter.
And since when is iWork comparable to Microsoft Office? Last I checked, it still can't work with industry standard file types *cough Office Open XML* and it lacks features that are present in Office. And before you whine about Microsoft having developed Office Open XML, too bad, they control the office industry, they define the standard. Be grateful it's open to begin with.
Windows Live Movie Maker IS a competitor to iMovie. Both of them are movie editors for the everyday person. Neither is suitable for professional work...go buy Sony Vegas, Adobe Premiere or Final Cut if you're a professional.
As for the rest of us, Movie Maker gets the job done just as well as iMovie does. My cousin, who has an iMac and loves the hell out of it, actually prefers Movie Maker, honestly. iMovie '08 was a joke too, in any case, Apple had to offer a download for an old version for free!
A quote, from a Cnet Review of Windows Live Movie Maker 1.0:
"Compared to Apple's polished, elegant, and feature-packed iMovie, Windows Live Movie Maker is a crude imitator."
So in my book, its no contest. I'll stick with my Mac, while you guys can laud the achievements of Microsoft.
The sad thing about this comment thread is that it is so far off topic from the fact that Apple is releasing Snow Leopard. It got hijacked by trolls, so now people have to come in and clean up the damage of misinformation and personal attacks
Have you seen how easy imovie 09 is to use. windows movie maker cannot compare at all.
It is good to see Windows 7 being out soon and with much great improvements. I'll like competition. I think the competition will motivate both Apple and Microsoft to make better and less expensive OS for end users. For the time being, I like Apple's OS and I think it is the best.
Linux Mint 7, for instance, got my friend (with little to no PC experience at all) up and running in an hour (with a 30 min walkthrough to upgrade his kernel to fix his eeePC's wireless).
In that case the shipped version of Linux Mint 7 did not have ethernet support or wireless support for eeePC, at first it was frustrating. However, they had already fixed the problem (the trouble was updating). Not only was a simple download able to fix the problem, but in the next release of Linux Mint, the problem will be resolved, see?
Ubuntu Jaunty has been a lifesaver on my great Aunt's older machine. She's 70 and doesn't know where her mouse plugs in. Her computer slowed to a mind-numbing crawl because it was running on 256 MB of RAM. I would have had to buy RAM through an online retailer, so instead of decided to install Ubuntu. It worked, and worked well, booting in under a minute (Windows took 10) and rendering web pages in seconds, rather than minutes.
Windows XP would have been fine with more RAM, but Linux was just what she needed.
Before I did the install, I researched and found many people having problems (with Hardy I believe) on low ram systems (like 256 MB). Yet when I installed it worked flawless.
With every release, problems are resolved, the system gets better. That's just how it works.
tl;dr; Try out a flavor of linux on a Virtual Machine or an old computer or something every 6 months or so. Try Linux Mint if you're not to savvy. I think you'll be surprised how much better it is each time. Maybe it won't suit your needs or work perfectly on your specific configuration now, but it'll get there. It's worked great for me every time.
Linux is getting better, no argument here. I also think that Mint 7 is a stellar OS (a great Linux ambassador) have rescued a number of neighbor`s computer`s with it, no one really seams to complain that its not Windows. IMHO OSX is still the best, even though I really enjoy using Linux (Slack, Sabayon, Mint, Redhat and Cent at work) I always find myself going back to Mac, even for shell stuff (7 shells built into terminal). Beyond that both enjoyable experiences.
$29 is the OS X upgrade price, it is not the price of the original operating system. You cannot purchase a standalone version of OS X without buying a computer to go with it. Apple only offers the upgrade media separately. Now we all know you can do the OS install with this upgrade media, but the EULA says you can only do it as an upgrade.
It's a common misconception.
so not true..
http://store.apple.com/us/product/MACBOX-101801?mco=NzgxMDg0MQ
That`s the full install DVD, format your drive if you want, pop this in, follow instructions
Windows Service packs are FREEEEEEEE... i dont care how much Kool aid Apple has given you, theres no denying it.. this is a glorified service pack for 29.00 dollars.
They ripped out the PP bits.. ooh nice.. thanks for giving me back the space you should have given me a choice to not install in the first place.
They enabled full fledged multicore support.. Hahaha.. welcome to 2006-2007.. MS did this in a SP.. for FREEEEE
They claim better performance (which i dont doubt as it was pig slow)... hmm.. MS does this thru SPs .. which are FREEEEE
They added exchange support... ROFLCOPTER ... welcome to 1997.. thats when outlook came out with this feature... "most advanced OS in the world"?! yup... /tardclap
good news is your only spending 29.00 +tax ... thats a bargain compared to what you paid for your overpriced aluminium husk housing you near netbook parts.
@chudq:
$29 is the OS X upgrade price, it is not the price of the original operating system. You cannot purchase a standalone version of OS X without buying a computer to go with it. Apple only offers the upgrade media separately. Now we all know you can do the OS install with this upgrade media, but the EULA says you can only do it as an upgrade.
It's a common misconception."
It is your assumption that is the misconception. I have done plenty of installs with full versions of OS X on multiple systems. You are wrong. There options for a full install.
"Snow Leopard is an upgrade for Leopard users and requires a Mac with an Intel processor."
Is an upgrade for Leopard users. It's an upgrade, not a full version. Read the EULA, read Apple's website. There are no full versions of OS X, because all Macs come with the OS to begin with. Full Windows versions are for those of us who build our own computers.
Read the EULA, it is an upgrade. All copies of OS X are upgrades. All Macs come with an OS to begin with. Just because you can do a clean install of OS X, doesn't mean it's not an upgrade. All OS X installations are upgrades.
Retail copies of Windows are for those of us who buy computers without an OS or build our own, the upgrades are for those who have computers with Windows already. See how that works?
It is true that the price is the upgrade price. However, why do I need to get a "full version" of OS? I have Apple computers and and they come with OS for FREE. I don't need to go through PC way to buy parts and build a Mac computer. That's not the way I want to go. I can say that 100% Mac users will just buy the upgrade version with $29.00 if they have Apple computer or get new Apple computer with additional payment for OS. I understand that it is hard to view this from PC user's view, but I really enjoy the way Apple controls the hardware and OS. It is a way to get rid of so many troubles with crappy hardware and compatibility issues.
When Microsoft releases a smaller OS with less features people boo.
Good for Apple though. This will definately increase the stock price after the quarter sales come in.
Didn't think so.
Amen
Even "pure 64bit" makes no sense on PowerPC G5 64bit processor. There is no advantage of using pure 64bit on PPC 64bit while Intel gets extra registers etc. OpenCL? Did IBM&Motorola contribute a single line to it? Quicktime X? It is still the same quicktime only using x86 based drivers to use GPU features.
IMHO they did nice by not supporting PowerPC and not ripping PPC users who would have no advantage from new kernel.
64bit compiling with single switch on GUI/command line is only possible for "hello World" type applications. The rest requires huge work&testing beyond anyone could imagine.
Especially for x86. If you want to go pure 64bit on x86, you have really lots of things to do. CPU transforms to something else with different capabilities and kind of programming.
Yet another "pay for it" point release.
Windows 95 -> 98 was a "pay for it" *.1 release. (Win 4.0 -> 4.1)
Windows 98 -> ME was a "pay for it" *.9 release. (Win 4.1 -> 4.9)
Windows 2000 -> XP in some cases could be considered a "pay for it" *.1 release. (NT 5.0 -> 5.1)
Windows Vista -> 7 will be a "pay for it" *.1 release. (NT 6.0 -> 6.1)
I guess.
You can call it whatever you want, but it doesn't change the reality of the situation.
Does it really matter though? I'll be paying $29 next week regardless what they call it.
are you that insanely mesmerized that you'd swallow this load from Apple?!
I call bulls**t on re-writing 90% of their code to make it 64bit... OSX already had this crippled feature embedded... Grand Central is the biggest "Snow" job i've ever seen.. I just dont trust Apple anymore as they are chronically lying about their capabilities... wake up you bunch of sheep, they're sheering your winter wool and leaving you in the "Snow".
it is the most advanced operating sytems. most lines of source code and so many technologies. over 1000 projects built in.
It would be the same as a mac user (or troll) posting on a Windows 7 article that "M$ sux" or "MicroSloth" or whatever. Who cares. It's childish. Let's move on.
In other news, I for one think it's great news that Snow Leopard is out this weekend! And for $29! Woo Hoo! Quicker than expected.
by Rolker August 24, 2009 7:22 AM PDT
First of all, there are a lot of PCs that match and surpass the Macs regarding quality, but this is a matter of choice and taste.
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Maybe for gaming but that is about it. For scientific application they fail to match the mac. Especially now with OpenCL. Also, if you price those comparable PCs they are usually more expensive.
Both macs and linux have perl, python integral with their OS. Windows you have ...activeX lol.
29 bucks vs. 300 its just no contest.
Do you research b4 posting your LIES.
sanenazok, I am sure serious developers will be considering to use it, IMHO ffmpeg, VLC teams will be the first consumer grade apps to go. On Pro scene, Adobe will be the first right after Apple using it for their pro line of apps.
I think I wasted enough keystrokes to feed your troll.
perl and python... great .. when did this become about browser technology? now your grasping at straws
29 bucks vs 0.00 because thats what a service pack costs genius
An upgrade copy of Windows Vista Home Premium, which is the standard version that no user should realistically need more than, is also $120ish. Microsoft allows upgrades from XP and Vista. Microsoft also had a special deal so that Windows 7 upgrades were $49. The price "difference" isn't too bad at all, it is very much so a contest.
Personally, I don't think its right to compare the price of Mac OS X to the price of Windows Home Premium. You should be comparing it to Vista Ultimate, which is the most feature rich version. I'm sure this is going to get me flack from the Windows people, but someone had to say it.
I'm not commenting on the Mac vs. PC argument. Its just that comment made my morning
...and I can confirm that Mac guys are bigger and better! Windows boys spend so much time complaining here because no one wants their little noodles.
;-)
Bathroom humor. Wow. You really are getting desparate.
Here's a crazy notion- how about letting the product speak for itself instead of you trying to make excuses? Seriously, it's a great product and it doesn't need you to be there... well, standing at the urinal comparing genetalia.
I thought The_Happy_Switcher came up with a perfect analogy to describe Windows trolls. I for one appreciated it.
I dont see anyone supporting what you wrote.
But... the ******* cries about having no viruses because he has no game. The true bigger and better one just puts on his rubber when he gets turned on. =D
I've never seen anyone use a "just us" special club-type argument... the support forums seem generally receptive of anyone willing to learn and no one yearns for a smaller market share.
...So what is your excuse?
Mac has no real variety ESPECIALLY since it no longer supports the Power PC chip. It's just one type of machine from a solitary company.
If it is something else, if you do this for free, get a life.
- by chriscooksey August 24, 2009 8:45 AM PDT
- It is awesome how everyone turns any apple news into some ridiculous PC vs. Mac all-out war.......Maturity
- Like this Reply to this comment
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- by TCrimson05 August 24, 2009 10:16 AM PDT
- Thank God someone other than me said it. I completely agree.
- Like this
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- by Josh BSN August 25, 2009 12:45 AM PDT
- Yeah, not really sure why I read through all the comments... I guess some of them are funny.
- Like this
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Showing 1 of 3 pages (196 Comments)I own a mac, and a pc. I've owned tons of laptops (I believe my MBP is my eleventh...). I do like the OS, I only dual-boot for gaming. But it hasn't been a clean ride. When my mbp first arrived it had an issue with screen brightness and a high-pitched noise increasing as brightness did. They sent me a new one. On this one I've had the HD replaced and the video card replaced. Not a perfect system, but I like it. There is considerably less hassle OS-wise. Then again, I'm excited for win 7 as well. Snow leopard is already ordered for this one.
I won't buy another mbp until they add HDMI, but I won't be buying a pc in the meantime =)
People that say windows is the best regardless of anything else are ignorant. So are those who say apple is the best. =)