Report: Palm spurned Apple offer on hiring
Two years ago, Palm's then CEO, Ed Colligan, rejected a proposal from Apple chief Steve Jobs to promise not to hire each other's employees, according to Bloomberg News.
According to Thursday's Bloomberg story, which cited unspecified "communications" between the two executives, Colligan in August 2007 said that Jobs' proposal was ill-considered. Jobs was worried about losing key Apple employees to Palm and said "we must do whatever we can to stop this," reported Bloomberg.
"Your proposal that we agree that neither company will hire the other's employees, regardless of the individual's desires, is not only wrong, it is likely illegal," Colligan told Jobs, according to the communications reviewed by Bloomberg.
A number of top figures at Palm once worked at Apple. Two months before the August 2007 communications cited by Bloomberg, Palm had announced that former Apple CFO Fred Anderson would be joining its board of directors and that Jon Rubenstein, who retired as head of Apple's iPod division in 2005, would join as executive chairman of the board.
In June of this year, Palm named Rubenstein as its CEO, replacing Colligan.
In August, former Apple staffer Jeff Zwerner became Palm's brand design chief. Other Apple execs who have jumped ship to Palm in recent months include Senior VP of Product Development Mike Bell and PR head Lynn Fox.
There's no love lost of late between the companies, with the Palm Pre a new up-and-comer for smartphone market share against the Apple iPhone. The two have most recently been squabbling over the Pre's compatibility with iTunes.
The Bloomberg story comes as the Justice Department is reportedly checking into possible hiring collusion among leading technology companies.
Tensions often run high between tech companies over executives moving between potential competitors. Apple last year got into a high-profile scrape with IBM over its hiring of Mark Papermaster from Big Blue.
Lance Whitney wears a few different technology hats--journalist, Web developer, and software trainer. He's a contributing editor for Microsoft TechNet Magazine and writes for other computer publications and Web sites. You can follow Lance on Twitter at @lancewhit. Lance is a member of the CNET Blog Network, and he is not an employee of CNET. 
I am glad he is suffering now for all the suffering and misery he has caused - and I hope the remaining people at apple (though none of them are engineers) have the sense to look for better offers and accept those offers when they see them!
It's not about the sharing of ideas -- it's about fairness to employees. Basically if companies strike these 'non-compete' deals regarding employees, then employees can't make companies 'outbid' each other for their services.
In other words, if you have an employee who's doing an absolutely phenomenal job, you usually have to keep promoting the person, giving them bonuses, pay hikes etc., to retain them. If you have non-compete/no-hire clauses with other companies that are interested in the same skill set, then you don't have to worry about this employee finding a job elsewhere, so you don't have to go out of your way to compensate them fairly for the awesome job they're doing. That's why these kind of deals are illegal.
Wow, your words describe Apple's MO perfectly. Did you realize that when you made the comment?
Just curious.
"That would be wonderful if it applied to all places of work."
>> It does apply to all places of work. Companies can't strike "you can't poach our guys" agreements with each other -- anywhere in the US.
"75% of the American working population is underpaid, and continues to be underpaid so a few individuals can be overpaid."
>> But the 75% stat is dubious to say the least -- never mind that we're lacking a definition for what it means to be underpaid. But more importantly -- that's a completely different topic. The only connection is this -- that salaries rise and fall with demand & supply just like everything else. If your skill set is a commodity, and that commodity is easily and cheaply available, the price of that commodity will be close to it's base price. If your skill set is rare, and difficult to obtain, then there will be competing bids for your skills and you will be able to charge a premium for it. The agreement in question (in the article) would thwart the 'competing bids' part of it.
Further -- even if yo're upset about this 75% of underpaid workers -- the solution is hardly to let the companies screw the remaining 25% (presumably the execs covered by this agreement). That way the companies get to screw everyone -- that's hardly a good solution..
Assuming the 25% are in fact overpaid executive types. Part of the problem isnt' a pool of folks willing to work for less who could do as good if not better job. It's the inablity for the folks doing the hiring to see past the pedigree to the talent.
"that other 25% is screwing the heck out of middle class America right now."
>> Are you referring to CEOs or white-collar workers in general? You're letting biases cloud your judgement here. Just because the Enron CEO screwed over tons of folks doesn't mean all CEOs do that. Same case for execs at any level. You can find rotten eggs in the 75% and you can find gems in the 75%. Same case for the other 25%. Don't let over-generalizations cloud your judgement.
"And the crap about skill sets makes my stomach churn"
>> It shouldn't. If somebody takes school seriously and performs well, studies hard, does well in their SATs, gets into a good college, gets a good education with great grades, does well in their GRE, gets into a great college and gets a masters degree with a thesis, studies harder, does great research, gets a PhD (thereby becoming an expert in their field) -- will you consider a high-school dropout for the sort of job you will consider this candidate for? Will you pay the high-school dropout the same amount? Sure, this is an extreme example, but hopefully you get the point.
"Why should any skill be worth more than another?"
>> Demand and supply. One skill might have high demand and low supply. So companies have to outbid each other to get people with that skill (thereby increasing it's 'worth'). Another skill might have high supply but low demand. So companies can offer minimum wage and still get people to compete for the job.
"What if all garbage collectors decided to quit working? You can bet your bum that skill set would become highly valuable."
>> No - they'll just get fired and people will be hired to replace them. Their skill (garbage collecting) is a commodity skill. Anybody can do it, but you only need a finite number of garbage collectors. So high supply but low demand. Ergo, minimum wage.
"That is the problem with the other 25%... they think they are better."
>> Not at all. They just demand more money because they know how much their skill is worth. They didn't bust their butts in school/college/grad-school/management school/medical school etc. for nothing. They spent the first 20-something years of their lives developing a skill. There is pride to be had in any job.
There's great dignity in earning a living -- whatever your job might be. The demand-and-supply equation isn't prejudiced and has no social / racial / ethnic biases. If CEOs were in low demand, and supply was super-high (like anybody walking by could do the job), then CEOs would be making minimum wage.
@ Renegade Knight
"Part of the problem isnt' a pool of folks willing to work for less who could do as good if not better job. It's the inablity for the folks doing the hiring to see past the pedigree to the talent."
>> True enough -- hiring the right people is a difficult thing, and no hiring system is perfect. But that's why people get fired / not promoted / quit over lack of promotions. You simply have to accept that not everyone you hire will be up to the task you hired them for. You owe them honest assessments, so that they know if/why they are considered to be 'under-performing'. Once they know this, and they have a clear explanation as to what the expectations are, they have clear options as well -- do whatever it takes to meet expectations, or search for another job where you think you can deliver, or try, fail, and get fired. The bottom line is, people should always know where they stand -- the rest is in their own hands. Layoffs are the obvious exception to this.
Amen
Amen
I extolled both virtues and vices for both. How can that be construed as "not thinking outside the Apple box".
Come to think of it... why am I even replying to this obviously inflamed rhetoric?... It has no informational value whatsoever...
Read. Rinse. Repeat...
"Seeing as I neither attacked or disrespected anyone or any company in my post, I will consider this a personal attack by you, and nothing more"
Well, to be truthful, seeing as Renegade Knight neither spoke of you, your name, or even attacked your comment in any way, then your comment here can only be seen and intepreted as a personal attack on Renegade Knight... however it's much more blatant and obvious.
Perhaps RK didn't attack you at all, was simply making a comment and you overreacted?
As for no reply, believe it or not, people have real lives and do not live here 24/7 pouncing on every topic, expecting a response in 30 minutes or less or your next comment is free. :)
Really.... don't take yourself so seriously. You'll sprain an ego or something. :)
And egos are made of self-importance. I can think of a lot more people on this earth that are far more important than I.
And one more thing... how could any of the questions I asked in my reply be interpreted as attacks? I think you might be the one overreacting here.
But it's ok, that seems to be the norm for this site!
: )
My apple Pedigree if you will.
MacBook, iPod, IPod Touch. I did just pick up a MacBook Pro but technically it was for someone else.
My fustration with Apple is forcing it to a"Just work" for a few simple things that they don't seem to support well. like audiobooks, or importing a partial music library in iTunes using filters.
As for you, you inspired my post, but my comment in general is that Apple works well if you think like Apple does. If you think like I do then you get issues trying to load an Audiobook onto an iPod. It's been far easier to install RockBox and make that work.
And I know it's true cause the voices told me so.
PS. I have loaded a few Audiobooks with no issues. what seems to be the problem? And what non-native filters might you be using? I am only asking because no one can expect any operating system to be compatible with all other 3rd party software.
"The sharing of ideas is what drives innovation and creation." yes. the Apple was successful based on the one visit of someone else' Lab. But current environment is different than the good old days. Just tell me how much the large corp pay for the small firm on Patent law suit settlement... Sharing? Dream on.
I am glad he is suffering now for all the suffering and misery he has caused - and I hope the remaining people at apple (though none of them are engineers) have the sense to look for better offers and accept those offers when they see them!
Meanwhile, in the real world, Palm and Apple appear to have locked horns. My guess is that stock options at Apple are a reasonable retention tool compared with whatever Palm may be able to offer although who knows what went on between Jobs and Rubinstein when he announced he was leaving the mothership (they go back to NeXT). I hope Palm survives, but it's no guarantee and tickling the elephant in a telephone booth when you're a mouse might not turn out too well.
Typical fanboy. Thinking is a hindsight.
Total for first 2 months = 300,000 units.
@renGek - You're referring to speculative investing, not the viability of Palm's direction. That the media and analysts went gaga over Pre since CES 2009 doesn't mean that Palm's product plan was a good one; it just means that you timed the market right, and everyone bought into the hype.
Of the people RBS Capital polled, only 45% of Pre owners considered themselves "Very Satisfied", compared to 82% of iPhone 3GS owners. In July, Sprint lost 257,000 total subscribers, but more importantly, 991,000 postpaid customers cut their contracts and moved out or down to pre-paid plans.
Stock analysts from Morgan Joseph downgraded Palm to Sell, last week, after reports that August sales were lower than July's. It's also notable that Ashok Kumar reported last week that Palm CUT Pre production for the rest of the year, to 500,000 units. For those of you keeping track, that's under a million in over 7 months.
Not to mention the creepy looking albino-like woman on another ad.
Palm's advertising is bizarre.
Sprint's advertising is superior, so their Pre ads are worth something.
@perry clease. I haven't seen anything exact, but the consensus has been that Pre sales did not meet predictions by the company or analysts. Some have referred to them as dissapointing sales figures. All of this is based on less than a single quarter's sales so far, which is not a very predicatable indicator. I'm just passing on what I've seen so take it or leave it as you like."
I have seen a range of numbers, none were very high considering the "pre" hype, but to be sure I don't think that Palm has issued an official count so people are just guessing. Sales could pick up with back-to-school shopping and when their app store gets going. I hope that they do well.
"Palm hasn't got a 'pre'-yer. Analyst are revising estimates and stock is/will continue to tank when people realize they are just going to be roadkill under Apple's tank treads. "
Funny thing is, many people had much the same prediction about Apple's iPhone when it came out. I would suggest giving it time before making such a rash judgement without any evidence to back it up yet.
http://www.wi-fiplanet.com/news/article.php/3835136
http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090727/palm-analysts-best-buy-suffering-from-pre-mature-elaboration/
I trust you know how to use google news.
"Pacific Crest analyst James Faucette writes that his checks find that monthly sell-through of the Pre in August is ?trending up slightly sequentially? versus run-rates at the end of July. He contends the improvement reflect better advertising, improved supply and strong word-of-mouth. That said, Faucette adds that further acceleration is going to be requried to meet his August quarter sales estimate of 750,000 units. He maintains his Outperform rating and $17 price target, and still thinks the company?s WebOS and software development team could be more to a potential acquirer - he mentions Nokia and Motorola - than as a stand-alone company."
There has not been a significant exodus in the scheme of Apple Corp. In fact, Rubenstein likely picked a few people who he could persuade to jump. for the same reasons he did. Now in Jonathan Ive left.....
Money helps too, but at these levels of accomplishment, it may be more about the challenge.
It would be a good comparison to see.
A long time ago I worked for a large advertising firm. The average designer's pay was $10 an hour. Barely enough to support a family of 3 let alone have medical insurance, etc. The owners of the firm, none of them artists or with any experience other than crunching numbers, were the ones raking in over $600,000 a year, AFTER overhead and taxes. It took a lot of convincing, but 8 months after I was hired I convinced the other 6 artists to form a co-op and leave the company, which promptly refitted its facilities to a laundry service.
For 3 years the seven of us worked together and expanded our skills, and built a stellar reputation both locally and in other locations around the US. When each artist had built a client list that could support them alone, we each developed our own companies, had dinner and champagne and toasted our success at "bucking the corporate world."
All 7 agencies are still in operation, still successful and still operated by the individuals who started them. Each of us has at least 10-12 designers working for us, but it is the same as our original co-op. Each artist is given credit and 75% of the profit from all work they complete for any client. Those of us who own the agencies collect a modest salary. In the last 2 years, none of us have lost employees to other agencies, we haven't gone bankrupt by paying them so well, and a few of those employees are ready to start their own co-ops.
This is not socialism, this is just a really solid business plan that seems to have taken hold and blossomed. We are now considering offering seminars to teach others how to break out of the grip of rampant, uncontrolled capitalism and earn the wages they deserve for a job well done.
While you have painted a beautiful Utopian picture for your co-op, you bring a lot of questions to bear for someone who actually runs a business and attempts to make a profit from it. My business grossed $2.6 million last year. My gross profits were $1,85,000, however my net profit was just under $104,000. Following your strategy, I would be broke. Not just a little bit broke, but a whole lot broke.
Please, explain to me how you make this co-operative venture work, whilst handing away 75% of your profit. Also, please explain how you can provide any set of fixed expenses in a truly co-operative fashion without the precise number of jobs in any given month or year.
1. This type of business has little overhead. Almost all work is done electronically, including billing and accounting. We have an electric bill, a small water bill for the restrooms and a bill for internet service. We have two HP 5550 dn printers that we share. Each person is required to pay an equal percentage of those minimal expenses. When shared equally, it doesn't amount to much per person.
2. Each of has supplies our own equipment and we pool for software upgrades. Yes, we all use Macs. But because they don't require much maintenance or upgrading within a 5 year period, that is also a minimal expense.
3. Utopia it is not. We have our ups and downs too.
4. We work for a comfortable living, not to see how many cars, homes, yachts and other luxury items we can accumulate.
5. We don't need a precise number of jobs. Each of us specializes in a certain type of design style but we are also proficient in others. In three years we have yet to go through a day in which we did not receive new business.
6. We do not advertise. Our clientele base is built on referral only. This is less likely to attract "scammers" who get you to design something then steal it.
7. We do not manufacture, we do not sell retail products. In other words, our methods are simple. We have a single bank account for expenses, and rotate responsibility for paying them.
8. We do have relatively fixed expenses since we don't vary the equipment, usage time or supplies needed by more than 10% either way in a given quarter.
9. Part of the reason for our success is 100% customer satisfaction. The main reason for that achievement is dedication to the craft, and self-discipline in creativity.
10. Any other questions?
I'm impressed by your story, even more so since you've publically stated you're an IT tech doing sys admin work. I assume all this success at creating the large corporation was before you took your current job?
Your history has become muddled. Which is it- IT tech admin, or owner/creator of an advertisng firm? I somehow doubt you're doing both at once. Could you clear up the situation with a clear and definitive answer of what your actual job is?
Thanks!
Trying to block transfer of employees, for example, is Corporatism, whereas a Capitalist free market system would "block" transfer of employees through competition for services and paying them to stay.
And YES, I have plenty of time to design because our Mac network rarely needs anything but updating, which is usually done in an hour or less.
The business I described is currently expanding again due to the demise of a few "less than professional" agencies in the area. I'll keep you posted.
What I am angry about is not capitalism, it is the self-inflated salaries of pompous jerks who think that three letters after their name entitles them to 400% or more of what their employees earn.
In a few more years, when I am absolutely sure that the model is successful, I might try bribing some of my colleagues into giving free weekend seminars at local universities about how it works.
The number of lost suscribers seems to be because of Pre I suppose right? I think I little objectivity in your reporting will suffice.
1. This is not Palm's first attempt at a smart phone.
2. Palm has had just as much time as Apple to learn from the original iPhone.
Technology doesn't happen in a vacuum. The market is one marketplace. While there will be teething pains on a new product, Palm's satisfaction rating is far lower than the iPhone, and that's despite the claimed superior network for of Spring, the superior pricing of Sprint, and the multi-tasking environment.
Go and start your own company and hire time wasting, lazy, expect something for nothing employees like yourself and see how you feel about it then. All of the statistics here are worthless and made up on the spot unless you cite your source. If someone is getting paid millions, don't hate, congratulate.
Funny how people still manage to make a decent salary and get promoted based on merit, I wonder what they are doing different? Its called talent, hard work and self betterment. If you are the same person as your were yesterday in terms of talent, dedication, and knowledge, then why should you receive a pay rate any different than yesterday's?
God, it's this "gimme-gimme" infantile mindset that enables whole able bodied communities to receive free cash from the taxpayers to just sit on their a$$.
"........ If somebody takes school seriously and performs well, studies hard, does well in their SATs, gets into a good college, gets a good education with great grades, does well in their GRE, gets into a great college ......"
While getting a solid education and being skilled in your craft is extremely important, I wouldn't hang my whole hat on the college degree angle. Most, if not all, of those overseeing the economy when it tanked had at least a degree. Apparently, much more was, (and is), needed.
KUDOS to you shycelticwitch. Your's is an example for all.
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