Apple warns about unsupported players' iTunes integration

Songs from iTunes synced with a Palm Pre.

(Credit: Ina Fried/CNET)

An article that appeared on Apple's support site Tuesday doesn't appear to be directed at any other company in particular--unless you read between the lines.

Titled "iTunes: About unsupported third-party digital media players," the article addresses the claims of "some third parties" that their digital media players are able to sync with iTunes. By "some third parties" they clearly mean "Palm," which has manipulated the new Pre smartphone to sync with Apple's music software. Palm execs showed off the iTunes sync feature at last month's D: All Things Digital conference.

The article reads: "Apple is aware that some third parties claim that their digital media players are able to sync with Apple software. However, Apple does not provide support for, or test for compatibility with, non-Apple digital media players and, because software changes over time, newer versions of Apple's iTunes software may no longer provide syncing functionality with non-Apple digital media players."

That can be taken as a none-too-subtle threat that Apple can break the Pre's iTunes sync capability with a simple iTunes software update any time it wants to.

Apparently Palm's chief investor Roger McNamee didn't see this coming. When he and Palm CEO Jon Rubinstein introduced the feature, he acknowledged that Apple could take legal or technical steps to block the feature, but said, "I find it hard to believe they are going to get bent out of shape."

[Renegade Knight]

That would be like MicroSoft breaking iTunes ability to sync contacts on a PC. Companies don't win when they start pulling the plug on their users. If apple makes iTunes less useful than it is. That doesn't help their cause.

[Brian]

I agree.

Apple is all about profit.

As long as iTunes is more available to the public, that's more iTunes music downloads from the App Store.

[DanRobinson]

Not so.

One reason Windows sucks is because it has to run on every POS out there.

Apple only needs to make sure things work on its own products.

Making sure your own particular POS hardware works with Apple is your problem . . . not their's.

[fleurya]

So ,at what point does this become a legal issue. Isn't this similar do everyone's gripe again MS and IE and soon to be release of Win 7 sans IE?

[nastynewt]

When Apple forces you to do something, it's for your own good. What flavor is your Kool-Aid?

[bsorli]

I'm not expecting anything from Apple legal or changing iTunes. Changing the code to block 3rd parties is simply a waste of Apple's time. Palm is smart enough to make it work without stepping on copyright law and the last thing Apple wants is HUGE sanctions like Microsoft is getting from the European Union....can you say Monopoly!!!

Apple an iTunes have been heading toward regulation issues for years and Palm Pre access simply shows they are willing to work with other providers. Apple, don't cut your nose off to spite your face... Sorli...

[kelmon]

Question: why should Apple be legally compelled to support devices that they do not make in their own software?

[Seaspray0]

@kelmon. Because they fall under the definition of a monopoly for both mp3 players and digital music distribution markets. They have more than 50% marketshare in both. Now go back and read your own comments regarding companies that are monopolies.

[gggg sssss]

RIP apple

[themrwhite]

Apple is the number 1 source of music in any format out of all retail outlets. I say goodbye Palm.

[LaTene_Man]

RIP gggg sssss

[petitbrilliance]

This is why I will never buy a Mac, Apple is just focused on making money through means of proprietary monopoly.

[NathanPiechocki]

Why do you Pre owners even WANT To sync with iTunes? If they want to lose the revenue, I suppose, let them go right ahead. Amazon's MP3 store is better anyway. Apparently Apple's hubris is larger than Roger and Jon had anticipated.
[CNET editor's note: Offensive language deleted.]

[DrtyDogg]

I don't I detested iTunes the first time I tried it in 2003. The only time I fire it up now is to burn a CD when I'm on my Mac. Songbird FTW.

[Mr. Dee]

I remember in January of 2001, iTunes supported MP3 players other than the iPod. In fact the iPod did not come to market until October 2001. This is another example of why supporting Apple will come back to bite you where the sun don't shine and that's why they will remain at a puny 1% of the market. Steve Jobs continue being frustrated, but don't expect a 1.2 billion user base anytime soon.

[ckh1272]

"by Mr. Dee June 16, 2009 7:13 PM PDT
I remember in January of 2001, iTunes supported MP3 players other than the iPod. In fact the iPod did not come to market until October 2001. This is another example of why supporting Apple will come back to bite you where the sun don't shine and that's why they will remain at a puny 1% of the market. Steve Jobs continue being frustrated, but don't expect a 1.2 billion user base anytime soon."

1%??!! That's exactly why you have no idea what you're talking about.

[Paldasan]

@ ckh1272, Mr. Dee

We all know they have a larger market share than 1%, but it also is much less than the 7-10% they have been crowing about over the last year or so. Those much higher figures compare all the apple products (including iphone & ipod) against these desktop/laptop operating systems vista, xp and some linux and unix distros. This conveniently 'i'gnores all the other smartphone operating systems, dual boot systems and non supported legacy operating systems.

[ckh1272]

"by Paldasan June 16, 2009 10:30 PM PDT
@ ckh1272, Mr. Dee

We all know they have a larger market share than 1%, but it also is much less than the 7-10% they have been crowing about over the last year or so. Those much higher figures compare all the apple products (including iphone & ipod) against these desktop/laptop operating systems vista, xp and some linux and unix distros. This conveniently 'i'gnores all the other smartphone operating systems, dual boot systems and non supported legacy operating systems."

@Paldasan-I never mentioned what percentage of users Apple has. My point is that some people relish in spewing out simple non-sense. However, I would like to you see where you get your numbers from. All of these "theories" and "hypothesis" are just conjecture at this point. From the trends I have seen personally, I would guess that it is closer to the 7-10% than most people may realize. At least five of my closer friends switched platforms over the last few years and they are all pretty tech savvy. They just got tired of some of the BS associated with Windows (their statements, not mine).

[LaTene_Man]

Mr. Dee, I think YOU are the one that is frustrated. Why else would you be so belligerent when it comes to Apple?

[Magicland]

Read: "Anything you do to make your hardware work with our software, we'll purposely break in the next update". Apple already does this with the iphone and ipod touch, to ensure that they won't work correctly with 3rd party music syncing applications (source: J. River, programmers of J. River Media Center).

[iBuzz]

iTunes ain't done 'til Palm Pre won't run!

[lusciatti]

I think that is how it will play out!

[kwhsy82]

When RealNetworks tried to play back QuickTime content, Apple went through several iterations of QuickTime to break the compatibility.
I'm not sure that living in a Microsoft-dominated environment is the best of all places, but behavior like this makes me think an Apple-dominated environment would be even less friendly.

[contentcreator--2008]

Duh. Apple is a vertically integrated monopoly, a walled garden. They are their own gate keepers, for better or worse. They can do what they want, but the market gets to vote on it.

[Seaspray0]

unless it's a monopoly.

[shinelikeitdoes]

There is absolutely no reason why Apple *should* support third party hardware. As some of you have pointed out, there are other options - no one is forced to interface with iTunes so whats the big deal?

Sounds to me like "other hardware makers" need to try to be innovative instead of relying on interfacing with someone elses work, then their customers wont get "burnt" by possible future incompatibility.

And If you think Amazons store is better anyway, then why are you complaining at all? Go there and shut up.

[faceless128]

nobody's saying they should support third party hardware, everyone's saying they shoudn't purposefully break compatibility.

apple didn't do anything to support the pre, but they would have to actively work on something to break the compatibility.

i couldn't care less anyway, i use a windows mobile phone (yay tethering!) and a creative zen mp3 player, i would never waste my battery life playing music on my phone with the amount of music i listen to.

[simelane]

I agree, Apple shouldn't do anything purposely to break the compatibility that other media players have with iTunes. That would be just plain mean!

However, keeping in mind that iTunes exists solely so that Apple can sell media players (i.e. it is an extension of their hardware) we should not expect Apple to hold off on evolving this piece of software in order to continue to support new features of various hardware (such as iPhone, Apple TV, iPod, etc.)... and if this result in the compatibility with their competitors hardware breaking... well that'll be just tough because iTunes is not a generic platform for third parties to build upon or use (i.e. it is not an operating system)

[DrtyDogg]

If my pre stopped syncing with iTunes, I'd call Palm, Just as if it stopped syncing with Windows Media Player I'd call Palm. I for one do not want another Media Player on my computer. There is no need, I applaud interoperability and simplicity. I personally don't like iTunes, but to see it work I synced an album to my Pre from it. It worked perfectly fine, and should stay that way.

[petitbrilliance]

@simelane
Actually, iPods exist solely to extend sales on iTunes.

@shinelikeitdoes
Apple does not support third party hardware. Apple has done nothing to make Palm Pre syncing easier. Innovative how? Create another media service JUST for the Palm Pre? That would be stupid. Burnt. Yep, Apple is pretty much burning all its loyal fanboys by pulling this proprietary monopoly stunt. As for switching stores, some people already have large libraries in iTunes. Sheesh, you are not bright are you?

[CyStarkman]

It's probably just the old, don't come calling us when it doesn't work.

Also, the article is using the current "happy carrot", namely Pre to attract readers. There are plenty of 3rd party PMP's that sync with iTunes and this refers to none and all of them at once.

The Troll here is Erica, the article's author.

[NathanPiechocki]

@Everlovin G: Aww, well, that's a little disingenuous. You don't think this is a bad business model for Apple? There is serious competition on multiple platforms (Android and WebOS, to name two) from other music stores. Palm was *building Apple into* the success of the Pre, and if they cut themselves out of it, it may cost them.

@shinelikeitdoes: If CNET news was iTunes, and I were complaining about it in that venue, "Go there and shut up" would be an appropriate response. I think this is the appropriate venue to discuss the possible market ramifications of Apple's saber-rattling, considering that was the substance of the article itself. Do you disagree?

[Mac User Too]

Apple created itunes to support it's media players. iTunes is one of the big reasons the iPod has been so successful. Apple spends money advertising iTunes and it has been a huge (although low-margin) success in its' own right. When Norway threatened to 'force' Apple to make iTunes compatible with other media players, Apple said it would just drop the Norwegian market rather than comply. It just wouldn't be profitable. You kids just don't get it. iTunes isn't some 'gift' from Apple that you get to mold in into whatever service you want it to be. It is good precisely because it is tightly controlled and serves one master: the iPod/iPhone world.

[drewhaege]

Amen my friend. This is exactly why Mac computers are superior over Windows-based. Apple maintains control over the whole process.

[monkeyfun14]

iTunes on Windows isn't exactly what I say screams quality...

[faceless128]

"Apple created itunes to support it's media players."

actually, itunes was out long before the ipod even existed.

in fact, if you wanted to count it before the apple buyout, then it was several years before the ipod.

[randygrenier]

Wow! Some of these Apple users are *really* brainwashed. Apple's success isn't about products--it's about mind control.

[fleurya]

And we should all live under a dictatorship because everything runs better when it's tightly controlled by one man, who surely will never let it all go to his head or make a bad decision.

[shycelticwitch]

@monkeyface14....

First intelligent thing I've seen you post here. Everything else runs like crap in Windows, why should iTunes be different. Even Apple can't fix what's wrong with windows...

"Windows is.... A 32-bit extension to a 16-bit graphical interface, sitting on an 8-bit operating system, originally written for a 4-bit processor by a 2-bit company without ONE BIT of common sense."

[LaTene_Man]

While I think I understand what you were trying to say, could you please put that in an English sentence monkeyfun?

[Seaspray0]

@shycelticwitch. Quality apps do not install other unwanted apps. Malware, such as itunes, does (quicktime and safari). btw, it's been 64 bit for years now. You need to come up with a new slander.

[petitbrilliance]

Then maybe the EU should apank some sense back into Apples arrogant butt. Half of your arguement is false. iTunes preceded iPod. The world would be better if everyone thought like Palm and Microsoft. To come up with a network of compatability, to have companys work together, to avoid the birth of selfish companies like apple.

[NathanPiechocki]

@Mac User Too: Are you saying that isn't profitable for them if I simply use it to purchase music and video from them? If this were simply a warning that they "don't build in support for 3rd party hardware," as was suggested above, then they're most certainly within their rights not to. Were they purposely circumventing 3rd party hardware's ability to interface with them, then they may be forcing thousands of otherwise eager customers to just shop elsewhere. Why is that good?

[alt117]

Apple is certainly within their rights to do what they want with their software, although they don?t treat their own customers with the same respect regarding their hardware.

If you must use itunes on non apple hardware, try www.doubletwist.com.

Better yet, dump itunes and use something else

[fleurya]

"Apple is certainly within their rights to do what they want with their software"

Yeah right, why don't you ask Microsoft about that!

[petitbrilliance]

Apple is selfish. They care nothing about their customers. A year ago I bought a new iPod shuffle. It was nice, until all my iTunes music disappeared and I had no music. I called them with my purchase records, and they say,"I'm sorry, we are not responsible for that." Half a year later, with my shiny new iPod touch. I had the same problem. Calling again, to give them a piece of my mind, they said they could get my songs for redownload. They said, "We might be able to do that for an iPod Touch." Clearly all they care about is money.

[Dan7637]

this is a good thing- that they break the Pre's syncing with itunes

iTunes was meant for ipods and iphones, nothing else plus its their software and they can do what they want plus every itunes user agrees to their TOS

[petitbrilliance]

HOW, is that a good thing? HOW?

[Revelation-23]

If you want to take it that way, sure, this could be a threat.

The timing may indicate a shot aimed at the Pre, but maybe it's just what it is - a warning that it might not work in the future, deliberately or not.

[Dalkorian]

That's how I read it too - more like a legal cover for their backside. "It's nice that you're working with us, but if an update should break what your doing don't come crying to us about it."

Of course it *COULD* be a threat too - after all, they DO want to sell you an iPod or iPhone!

[ikramerica--2008]

Apple should sell licenses.

Right now, Palm is "hacking" copyrighted software. Palm is trying to play it all cool, but they are probably breaking the law in some way.

Apple does not lock up your music. iTunes is simply a way to organize your music and sync it with Apple devices. Your music still exists on your machine (now 100% without DRM), and any other software can be used, and pointed to the iTunes folder, and organize and sync that same music with any third party app.

This is NOT a monopoly nor restrictive.

What Palm is doing is piggybacking on the backs of other people, using their labor, and then using that labor to add a "feature" to it's own product that is in direct competition with the company they are "taking" from.

Palm is the bad guy here. They are the ones who are the "bad actors" in this whole little scuffle.

[fleurya]

Wow, that kool-ade must taste pretty good. Apple has a lot of smart people, and if Palm was breaking any laws I think the lawsuit would have been filed by now.

Not restrictive??? What part of restricting iTunes syncing to Apple products is not restrctive??? You really are naive!

[Synthmeister]

What I think is dumb is that Palm is putting part of their destiny in someone else's hands. That's just stupid. Make your own solution and then make it drop-dead simple to suck the appropriate files from iTunes into your solution.

Palm needs to take control over the Pre's user experience and not leave part of that experience in Apple's hands.

That would be like Apple licensing WinMo for the iPhone. Just dumb.

[kelmon]

Completely agreed - the only way that this works out well is if Palm pays a license to Apple so that the Pre is officially supported within iTunes.

@fleurya

I believe there is a hint that Palm is infringing on the iPod trademark by having the Pre masquerade as one. As is usual with these things, it is best to actually produce the lawsuit once the opposing device as a decent amount of traction and you can sue for larger damages backed up with real sales figures.

It should also be noted that any device is free to sync with the iTunes library using the "iTunes Library.xml" file. Do you honestly expect Apple to support 3rd party devices for free within the application?

[petitbrilliance]

I don't really care for the iTunes sync at all, but frankly it's a good move on Palm's part. It's not illegal at all.
@Synthmeister
Take control of the Pre huh? So you want Palm to make a new music store for their pre? Ridiculous.

[monkeyfun14]

Interesting how the fanboys cry boo hoo when someone works a way around Apples abusive TOS's but as soon as someone does it to MS they support it.

Btw I don't hate the companies I hate the fanboys.

[Vegaman_Dan]

That's because double standards do not apply fo fanboys. :/

[ckh1272]

It's also interesting how MS fanboys read articles and comment on products they have no interest in, yet can't stop b----ing about!!

[kalpana168]

ckh1272 has identified himself as the double standards fanboy that people hates. ;-)

[hhs2112]

I LOVE the fanboys! I simply look for any cnet headline featuring Microsoft, Apple, or Google (or the holy grail of all three!) and then dive in to get my daily dose of absurdity. Opinions presented as facts, lies, FUD, manipulation of statistics, ridiculous comparisons, and outright ignorance rule the day. Students of rational decision making, argumentation, and debate should use these forums as a means to gain concrete examples of what NOT to do in order to be effective.

I wonder if these clowns get as excited over their brand of lawnmower (Toro! No LawnBoy! No Craftsman!!). Let's face it, seeing the world in black and white must really be convenient.

Carry on fangrlz, I need my absurdity fix and I need it now!!!!

[LaTene_Man]

Wait a minute, aren't you, monkeyfun and Vegaman, "fanboys"? Sure look like a pair of fanboys, Microsoft fanboys.

[Seaspray0]

@LaTene_Man. Vegaman Dan is no fanboy.

[DrtyDogg]

@hhs2112: you forgot to add Sony to that list.

[seven7dust]

i just hope they dont break the intergration !
drag and drop is nice
but when you already have a huge music library with playlists , song ratings etc
it's a huge pain !

[fleurya]

that's what Apple is counting on. They hope people will rather buy an iPod then deal with the headache of importing their music to another program.

[Synthmeister]

That's why Palm needs to make it drop-dead simple to suck appropriate iTunes files into their own solution, just like Apple's iCal can suck in Outlook data.

[Groucho6]

No it's not a subtle threat -- it's a clear statement that Palm has to support their feature, not Apple. One of the many reasons Microsoft puts out such crap these days is that they try to support everyone. That takes enormous manpower and costs to try to make sure your software works on all those different pieces of hardware. Apple commits the resources to make sure their software works on their own hardware, and that's all. You want to make yours work with theirs? Knock yourself out, but you better be prepared to keep supporting that functionality when the software is upgraded. That is what they said, period.