June 8, 2009 11:38 AM PDT

Apple: Next Mac OS X unlocks chip power

by Stephen Shankland
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This story was corrected. See below for details.

SAN FRANCISCO--Apple wants Mac OS X to do a better job dealing with the new directions that Moore's Law has taken computer chips.

At its Apple Worldwide Developer Conference here, Bertrand Serlet, senior vice president of software engineering, shed light on technology called Grand Central Dispatch that's designed to make Mac OS X 10.6, called Snow Leopard, take better advantage of multicore processors and graphics processors.

Power play at Apple's WWDC 2009.

(Credit: James Martin/CNET)

Computer chips for years improved in performance through faster clock speeds, but processor engineers ran into problems with chips consuming inordinate amounts of power and producing inordinate amounts of heat. In addition, the faster clock speeds sometimes meant chips just idled faster because memory access speeds couldn't keep up.

The new direction: multicore processors that put multiple processing engines on the same chip. The problem with the approach, though, is that PC software typically had been written to run with one thread of instructions at a time. Multicore processors work best when software does many things at the same time, which is much harder to program.

Grand Central Dispatch is designed to address that problem for software developers, making it easier to program multithreaded software, use operating system services, and tune program executions.

It also improves how Mac manages those threads, Serlet said. For example, when running Apple's Mail app, today's Leopard OS uses about the number of threads when busy as when idle.

"When it's busy, it uses more threads to take advantage of multicores. When idle, all those threads go away, giving back resources to the system," Serlet said. "When you apply that to every application, you get a big win in performance and responsiveness."

Graphics chip power
The new Mac OS X also is designed to support a programming technology called GPGPU--general-purpose graphics processing unit--which lets a graphics chip run some computing jobs in addition to its ordinary job displaying graphics.

To make its GPGPU technology work, Apple uses OpenCL, a C-like programming technology that has the support of graphics chipmakers Nvidia, AMD's ATI, Intel, and others.

Graphics chips aren't good for every sort of computing task, but they are good for mathematical calculations--including they physics calculations often needed in video games that simulate flowing fabrics, bouncing balls, and other real-world actions.

Mac OS X will be available in September with an upgrade price of $29, a big notch less expensive than the $129 price of earlier upgrades.

Apple also is working to support 64-bit x86 processors, now the prevailing standard. One big advantage of 64-bit processors is support for more than 4GB of memory; Serlet also touted faster mathematical processing such as the doubled speed of fast Fourier transforms.

Apple has been gradually making its operating system fully 64-bit. "Snow Leopard is final stage where all the major system applications are written in 64-bit mode," Serlet said.

Correction 6:13 a.m. PDT Tuesday: This story misidentified the speaker. It was Bertrand Serlet, senior vice president of software engineering.

Stephen Shankland writes about a wide range of technology and products, but has a particular focus on browsers and digital photography. He joined CNET News in 1998 and since then also has covered Google, Yahoo, servers, supercomputing, Linux and open-source software, and science. E-mail Stephen, or follow him on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/stshank.
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by BogusBasin June 8, 2009 12:11 PM PDT
What a bunch of garbage. I would much rather have an OS that can unlock the power of viruses. Win7 here I come!
Reply to this comment
by c4s2k3 June 8, 2009 12:17 PM PDT
ROFL! In that case, wait a while. Maybe MS will add similar technology and allow viruses to run even faster. :-)
by BogusBasin June 8, 2009 12:45 PM PDT
Whoo hoo! Win7! Multithreaded virus support built in! Yeah baby!
by Seaspray0 June 8, 2009 12:58 PM PDT
@bogusbasin. No operating system is 100% secure. And before you go jumping on windows 7 as being full of holes, I suggest you check out just how vulnerable osx is now.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-1009_3-10154662-83.html
The Macintosh and base Linux kernel operating systems have dominated the top spots for vulnerabilities by operating system over the past three years
by Mr. Dee June 8, 2009 12:59 PM PDT
Illiterate composition put together by 'BogusBasin'. Everything in Snow Leopard was copied from Windows 7 by Cupertino.
by seven7dust June 8, 2009 1:47 PM PDT
@seaspray
Although I Find Bogusbasin's comments trollish and stupid
Vulnerlabilies and viruses are not the same
plus how of those vulnerabilities are actually exploited on the Mac or Linux ? zero
no OS is perfect but Windows is the only O.S with spyware and viruses problems
by Lerianis3 June 8, 2009 2:19 PM PDT
by seven7dust June 8, 2009 1:47 PM PDT
@seaspray
Although I Find Bogusbasin's comments trollish and stupid
Vulnerlabilies and viruses are not the same
plus how of those vulnerabilities are actually exploited on the Mac or Linux ? zero
no OS is perfect but Windows is the only O.S with spyware and viruses problems.
__________________________________________

That is because they are the OS with nearly 90% of the market. The fact is that if OSX and Linux EVER break 15% of the market for either of them..... you will see people coding viruses and taking advantage of the vulnerabilities in those operating systems.

Also, most of the 'viruses' took advanatage of Windows XP. They CANNOT infect Vista or Windows 7, because there are more protections on those operating system, along with NUMEROUS kernel checks.
Stop automatically assuming that just because an OS is the most attacked, that it is the 'worse' operating system. You have to look at the percentage of people who are concentrating on trying to take apart that OS to get their malware, spyware, etc. on it!

When that is taken into consideration, Windows security history since Windows Vista is MUCH better, and lets face facts: when Windows XP came out.... the internet was not in as much use as it is today. Therefore, Microsoft NEVER thought that they would need 'protections' from viruses, because those were things that up until 2001, we just written 'for fun'.... not to do damage to computers, not to infect computers and steal data, etc.
by Seaspray0 June 8, 2009 2:39 PM PDT
@sevendust. Are they currently exploited? No. But, could they be exploited? Yes. The difference is which operating system the virus write chooses to attack. For now, they are choosing windows to attack. Tomorrow is not yet written. Considering IBM does not like microsoft, they're not going to taint it in microsoft's favor. Go read it and you'll see for yourself which "OS that can unlock the power of viruses" for the last 3 years. So far it hasn't been, but it has the most potential to be.
by kcotham June 8, 2009 3:01 PM PDT
Dee, do you ever get tired of posting garbage? Seriously, do you actually believe any of the dreck you type? No one with a functioning brain would believe anything you say at this point.
by kojacked June 8, 2009 6:33 PM PDT
I guess BogusBasin must have lost his job as a Genius at the Apple Store. That's why he has so much time to troll.
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 9:57 PM PDT
It's so funny when I read an article about Windows and see all the fanboys crying about a single trollish comment. Yet, in an article about OS X, it's a free for all from Windows fanboys attacking anything and everything that isn't Windows.

Strange that anyone who is so heavily against any OS besides their own would "know" so much about anything else.

My knowledge of Windows comes from years of use, it also led me to stop using it. My knowledge of Linux comes from research and from use, that combination has led me to want to keep using it. Doesn't look to me like MS won that battle.
by shycelticwitch June 8, 2009 12:13 PM PDT
As expected, Apple delivers the goods. I think I will keep my stock a while longer.
Reply to this comment
by Lerianis3 June 8, 2009 2:48 PM PDT
WRONG! The only thing that Apple has 'delivered' is overpriced goods. [CNET editors' note: Prohibited content deleted.]
by protagonistic June 8, 2009 4:01 PM PDT
@ Lerianis3

Excuse me? When was the last time you got a Windows upgrade for $29? And it is not Apple that charges about $400 for a full version of its top of the line OS. Remember, "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and remove all doubt"...
by jdemp5 June 8, 2009 4:14 PM PDT
I just priced several dell laptops to the apple laptops and they were the same price(but the memory was slower)
by Gadget70 June 8, 2009 9:07 PM PDT
@Lerianis3

You get what you pay for Lerianis. If you want your $199 crappy windows netbook, then go ahead.
by tcr071 June 8, 2009 9:26 PM PDT
That is because this is a service pack that Apple is calling a complete new release. I find it hilarious that Apple has the balls to call Windows 7 a rehashed version of Vista when there are two or three times more changes between vista and 7 as there are between Leopard and Snow Leopard. Microsoft doesn't charge for service packs, they give them out for free.
by Gadget70 June 8, 2009 9:30 PM PDT
@tcr07

When you ge the OS right the first time, the changes are not that spectacular. Getting exchange support for $29 alone is worth the price. What fantastic new features in Windows 7 are you waiting for? BSOD 2.0?
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 9:59 PM PDT
@Gadget70

Not always true, Linux runs more smoothly with more perks than Windows for a much lower price ($0).
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 10:00 PM PDT
@Gadget70

lol

BSOD 2.0 - let all your friends know your machine just crashed.
by tcr071 June 9, 2009 6:55 AM PDT
"When you get it right the first time there are no need for changes." hahahah. Is that why one of the five or six "new" features in Snow Leopard is a complete ripoff of the Windows 7 aero-peek? Perfect. Only a complete fanboy could ever utter some nonsense like that.

New graphical user interface, new task bar, new wireless networking, new UAC, XP mode, etc, etc, etc. You can count the new features of OS X on your two hands and probably just one hand because all the changes are under the hood and then Apple fanboys want to sit here and call Windows 7 Vista Service Pack 3. Wow the irony. What sounds more like a service pack? A completely redesigned interface and features or tweaks behind the screen to improve performance? Hmm...

Snow Leopard = $29 Service Pack for Leopard.

A feature I'm looking forward to in OS X in Spinning Beachball of Death 2.0
by seven7dust June 9, 2009 10:10 AM PDT
@tcr071
I know you hate Apple love microsft
but c'mon 7 is actually internally named 6.1 isnt it ?
just becasue it uses less ram and sucks less due to fxed bugs doesnt mean it's new
Snow leopard adds exchange support new technolgies like opne CL
and gives you back 6 Gb of space , which SP does that ?
and all this for 29$
compare that to 200$ for Windwos 7
which ever way you guys try to spin this
looks like you guys will be paying your Microsoft tax alright

plus if you havent noticed Apple sents out free updates too
they just dont name them with ridiculous names like service pack
See more comment replies
by myles taylor June 8, 2009 12:15 PM PDT
This is just the direction everything needs to go. Software needs to get better at handling all this stuff.

I'm excited for Snow Leopard.
Reply to this comment
by BogusBasin June 8, 2009 12:22 PM PDT
Are you kidding? Windows gives you so much more power! Power to reload your OS when it starts to slow down over the course of three months. Power to run a defrag manually as if it were a religion. Power to load, and keep virus programs updated daily or else. Power to have your machine turned into a zombie bot for others to collect your credit card data. Power to have your computer come preloaded with bloatware. Power to cut your fingers inside the sharp sheetmetal cases that enable you to pay so much less. We need more power! Who would buy that OSX garbage anyway?
by Lerianis3 June 8, 2009 2:52 PM PDT
BogusBasin, shut up. My OS has worked for YEARS without having to reload it, and that was Windows XP. I, at one time, bought into that BS as well.... but it wasn't true that Windows 'slowed down' after 6 months to a year.

Secondly, OSX doesn't do an automatic defrag, so your point is moot and Windows XP does it on a schedule if you have it set up correctly.

Virus programs? Need I remind you of the virus that was in the 'p2p' download of iWork? Personally, I have NEVER had a virus get on my system and STAY on my system, other than those 'codec' viruses which I was an absolute IDIOT times infinity to install on my machine.

Bloatware? There isn't very much on Windows PC's anymore, the companies have gotten real and realized that we don't want that stuff on our computers.

Sharp sheetmetal cases? Okay, since almost ALL cases are sheetmetal and are sharp, unless you are buying a 'boutique' or 'gamer' case, your point is moot.



[CNET editors' note: Personal attack deleted.]
by kcotham June 8, 2009 3:05 PM PDT
Boys boys, behave!

I've got 25 years of experience with both operating systems and environments. Windows is a piece of trash compared to what Mac OS has become. It's been that way ever since 1984. That's probably too far back for you to remember. Have you Lerianis, ever actually owned a Macintosh? Used one on a regular basis? No, so what gives you the right to make any judgements or have any opinions on something you know absolutely nothing about?
by Gadget70 June 8, 2009 9:17 PM PDT
@kcotham
I totally agree with you kcotham. And Lerianis3, yes windows does slow down over time. It is an absolute piece of trash and needs a fresh install at least every year. In contrast, older mac computers ran faster after upgrading their OS with Leopard. I work on Vista everyday on a pretty good Dell system. My wife has the iMac.which is a far far far better experience. You never see that stupid flashlight lookiing for files in a folder on a Mac (they just instantly show up). Windows thinks it's still cool to show a flashlight waving back and forth while you wait for the files to show up. Maybe Microsoft needs a server farm to render this complex task.
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 10:05 PM PDT
Unfortunately part of what Lerianis3 said is partially right. XP, when maintained vigilantly, won't slow down. I managed to keep an installation of XP running full speed for more than a year and a half with frequent defrags, virus scans, registry cleaning/maintaining and malware scans. Switched the same machine to Ubuntu and now it just doesn't slow down.

But he is partially right, XP doesn't have to if you maintain it. I just prefer to have my computer do what I want instead of having it be so needy all the time.
by karpenterskids June 8, 2009 12:20 PM PDT
I'm the happiest with the $29 price tag.
They'll probably end up selling 5 times as many upgrades as a result, and make a good profit, as well as keeping their customers happy and loyal, which means even more money for them in the future.

Good move, Apple.
Reply to this comment
by BogusBasin June 8, 2009 12:24 PM PDT
Isn't Microsoft their rival in Operating Systems? Isn't Microsoft spending millions to show how much more Apple costs? How much is Vista............I mean Win7? For the cheapest of the 100 different versions? Ouch.
by Seaspray0 June 8, 2009 1:16 PM PDT
@bogusbasin. The $29 upgrade price is really nice. It's alot cheaper than what microsoft charges for an upgrade. But if you intend on making price comparisons on full installations, either give the whole truth or don't bother posting your biased dribble. When purchasing a new computer that comes with windows 7, the price microsoft charges the OEM is roughly $50 for vista home premium and that's what gets passed on to the consumer.
by uclapril76 June 8, 2009 1:34 PM PDT
The $29 pricing only shows how Apple has been ripping off it users $100 for each "upgrade" since the first OS X.
by Lerianis3 June 8, 2009 2:55 PM PDT
[CNET editors' note: Personal attacks deleted.] Windows Vista Home Premium is given to OEM's for 50 dollars. Ultimate is a little more: 90 dollars to an OEM.



Yes, Microsoft DOES overcharge for their 'retail' versions of OS'..... but that's pretty much the mean for every single thing for a PC. I can buy an OEM video card for 50 dollars from Newegg and it has pretty much the same specs as a retail video card that costs 200 dollars in Best Buy.
by oakaleafy June 8, 2009 6:53 PM PDT
Well the fact that the computer cost WAY more than pcs, the cheaper price still doesn't even our the prices because the time you get to the third upgrade, you won't be able to upgrade your computer.
by clamenza June 8, 2009 12:21 PM PDT
I love Apple. Ooooh! Ooooh! i love Apple! Ooooh! Ooooh!
Reply to this comment
by yftzh June 8, 2009 12:33 PM PDT
"Grand Central Dispatch"? or just a fancy name for thread pool?
Thread pool has been around for years on other platforms.
Reply to this comment
by BogusBasin June 8, 2009 12:43 PM PDT
Yeah! You tell them silly Mac people! If you want to brag about new features, brag about finally being able to have access to all the same viruses, pop-ups, adware, spyware, trojans, etc. that us Windows users have had for years! Take that Mac people!
by Gadget70 June 8, 2009 9:21 PM PDT
is this BogusBasin or Stephen Colbert?
by kjm829 June 8, 2009 12:34 PM PDT
I'm thinking the low upgrade cost has something to do with the release today of the new line of computers. It makes people feel more comfortable to purchase a new computer when the new os release date is only a few months away, instead of waiting.
Reply to this comment
by sanjayb June 8, 2009 12:37 PM PDT
The best thing to come out of today's conference was Snow Leopard @ $29 upgrade price. I am really looking forward to upgrading. By October I will have both Win 7 and Snow Leopard running on my MBP. Sweet!!
Reply to this comment
by pcho892 June 8, 2009 12:45 PM PDT
I love how all of these features have been available for a while on any other os, and all apple does is give it a nice name, and people rave about how good it is.
Reply to this comment
by kelmon June 8, 2009 1:53 PM PDT
In about 4-months time we'll find out what the nice names mean in the real world. Of course, concepts like that which Apple is putting into Snow Leopard have generally been around for years. Do not forget that the Mac has been a multi-processor system for many years so this is hardly new territory for the Mac OS. What you are looking at here is optimisations of these concepts and an attempt to make all applications run faster by making better use of the resources available in computers with many cores. It certainly will be very interesting to see how well the OS benchmarks against others.
by seven7dust June 8, 2009 4:57 PM PDT
same way
expose screen corners spotlight search widgets have been available on the mac o.s for years
and now that Microsft added it to Windows it's innovation
by Gadget70 June 8, 2009 9:26 PM PDT
True, these features have existed before. What Apple does is study them, polish them and make them user friendly to the nth degree. Take the new exchange support. Getting your Mac onto Microsoft Exchange sounds worlds easier than doing it in Microsoft's own Vista OS. That I find completely hilarious.
by bburn--2008 June 8, 2009 12:47 PM PDT
Snow Leopard looks sweeet. Apple is doing a good thing: Faster, leaner and modern ;-)
Reply to this comment
by contentcreator--2008 June 8, 2009 12:58 PM PDT
Leaner? Are you talking about the 5GB saved by throwing PowerPC users under the bus? ;-)
by kcotham June 8, 2009 1:42 PM PDT
Is that how they are saving the 6GB? I didn't see anything about that in the release. But it wouldn't surprise me. PowerPC Macs haven't been made for nearly five years. It's sad to see though, I own two. Even if they do, they are probably keeping a build handy. POWER7 and e700 look very promising.
by Seaspray0 June 8, 2009 2:21 PM PDT
Moving to 64 bit is a much needed step as other OS's have already made this step. Apple would be smart to include 32 bit backward compatibility during this transition as most programs still run as 32 bit. I suspect they will. Performance does improve but people will see the biggest difference when it comes to programs using intensive mathematical computations and are written for 64 bit. I would be interested to know which 64 bit archetecture it's going to... x64 or itanium 64. Stephen, can you clarify this?
by kcotham June 8, 2009 3:08 PM PDT
Seaspray,

Mac OS X has been 64 bit for a while now. It's been 32 bit backward compatible for a while now too. They are simply dropping PowerPC support. I don't like this, but you have to move forward and cut the legacy stuff some time. That's Microsoft's problem. They have such a huge install base that still uses legacy tech. Those people would have a haemorrhage is Microsoft suddenly decided to cut the cord on them.
by PPD4195 June 8, 2009 8:47 PM PDT
by kcotham June 8, 2009 3:08 PM PDT
Seaspray,

Mac OS X has been 64 bit for a while now. It's been 32 bit backward compatible for a while now too. They are simply dropping PowerPC support. I don't like this, but you have to move forward and cut the legacy stuff some time. That's Microsoft's problem. They have such a huge install base that still uses legacy tech. Those people would have a haemorrhage is Microsoft suddenly decided to cut the cord on them.
________________________________________________________________

True! MS is like the Democratic party of the US. They've built up so many BS social programs over the years that they're bankrupting the whole country, but if they cut them all the hand-out rejects would hemmorhage come the first of the very next month ;)
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 10:19 PM PDT
@PPD4195

This is a tech blog, not a political blog. Of course, looking like an ass is always good for a laugh but could you at least try and make your comments tech related?
by mnl1121 June 8, 2009 1:17 PM PDT
Bout time Apple. How long were they going to go without prividing this kind of support. Windows has been doing this for years.
Reply to this comment
by Scott5673 June 8, 2009 1:49 PM PDT
Wow, no kidding? And it still can't counteract my Windows install from slowing to a snail's pace after 1 year install.
by kelmon June 8, 2009 1:53 PM PDT
Doing what, prey?
by Lerianis3 June 8, 2009 2:57 PM PDT
by Scott5673 June 8, 2009 1:49 PM PDT
Wow, no kidding? And it still can't counteract my Windows install from slowing to a snail's pace after 1 year install.
_________________________

Bull. The only way that could possibly be happening is if you are not running anti-virus and firewall software and are getting LOADED with viruses because of your own stupidity.
I'll be blunt: I almost NEVER re-install the OS on my PC's, unless I have done something MYSELF to bork them up.
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 10:25 PM PDT
@Lerianis3

My ex roommate ran AVG free, a year later his OS needed a fresh install. I ran Avira AntiVir, a year later mine didn't. Of course, I also ran Malwarebytes Antimalware, SmartDefrag, Advanced Windowscare and a few other apps meant specifically for system cleanup or registry tweaking.

I spent an hour a night running malware scans, cleaning the cache, making sure the registry was right, checking for spyware, making sure no extra apps snuck into the startup menu, etc. I also ran a nightly defrag since that app automatically turned off my PC at the end.

He did what you suggested, ran an antivirus with a firewall provided by the ISP.

In other words, your way doesn't work, keeping Windows (XP or earlier) running for more than a year really does take too much work. So glad I went to Linux.
by freemarket--2008 June 9, 2009 6:41 AM PDT
@Lerianus: Actually, it's having to run the AV and anti-spyware crap that slows it down in the first place. Then there's the bloated and sluggish Office '07 virus.
by uclapril76 June 8, 2009 1:37 PM PDT
Apple should have named it OS X Leopard SP1.
Reply to this comment
by kelmon June 8, 2009 1:58 PM PDT
You didn't pass Marketing 101, did you?
by kcotham June 8, 2009 3:09 PM PDT
Obviously he didn't. What genius at Microsoft thought up the moniker "service pack" in the first place? It sounds like something from IBM circa 1975.
by uclapril76 June 8, 2009 3:17 PM PDT
My point was that Snow Leopard should have been a free update or service pack.
by Yelonde June 8, 2009 3:55 PM PDT
In that case uclapril76, Windows 7 should be free as well.

But, as Microsoft is putting it, they are going to charge more than $100 for it.
by uclapril76 June 8, 2009 5:40 PM PDT
Windows RC1 is free until July 2010 :)

But yes, I agree to an extent that Windows 7 should either be free to Vista users or sold cheap.
by uclapril76 June 8, 2009 1:50 PM PDT
How much is it for non-Leopard users?
Reply to this comment
by pithenumber June 8, 2009 2:43 PM PDT
prolly $99 or $129
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 10:27 PM PDT
For non-Leopard users it will come free with the Apple product of their choice just like Windows comes free with whatever hardware you buy it on. Of course, your Windows install will come with a bunch of crapware to subsidize the price.
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 10:27 PM PDT
By the way, that wasn't meant to sound snarky but it did.
by Uncle Spongehead June 11, 2009 7:43 AM PDT
Upgrade for Tiger users is $169 for Snow Leopard, iWorks, and iLife. It's a package deal. Some will complain about price (especially around here), but I will gladly pay. I didn't upgrade to Leopard, but Snow Leopard is the real deal. Those claiming it is a service pack and should be free have not looked into the details.
by kelmon June 8, 2009 1:58 PM PDT
Well, it looks like there will be some nice updates in the new OS and it'll definitely be worth $29, or whatever that gets converted into when it makes it to Europe. It's certainly nothing earth shattering but at the price I won't complain and it'll keep things nice and fresh whilst delivering functionality that will be genuinely useful to me. Benchmarking this against Leopard will certainly be interesting (well, to me at least).

One thing that would be nice that I haven't seen yet is support for additional languages in the system wide Dictionary. I can't stand the current Dictionary trying to make me spell with dratted American English...
Reply to this comment
by stevicus June 8, 2009 9:27 PM PDT
"I can't stand the current Dictionary trying to make me spell with dratted American English..."

LOL I wonder how much extra HD space is taken up by all those unnecessary "u"s...?

English is hard enough to learn as a second language with few rules and mainly exceptions on top of which there are a number of illogical spellings like "litre" (lee tray?) and "colour". Many in Asia thank the Americans for at least attempting to fix this.

;-)
by Gadget70 June 8, 2009 9:38 PM PDT
Hey now! That comment is a little off centre ;)
by stevicus June 8, 2009 11:36 PM PDT
Maybe the tyres need an alignment
by Motyoj June 9, 2009 9:06 AM PDT
Isn't there a feature when setting up OS X to click on the Union Jack instead of the Stars and Stripes?
by Yelonde June 8, 2009 2:43 PM PDT
Wow. . . $30 for an OS upgrade. I don't think Microsoft can call apple "more expensive" at this point.
Reply to this comment
by Lerianis3 June 8, 2009 3:01 PM PDT
Yeah, they can. For what you are buying in the PC itself, their PC's are still DRAMATICALLY overpriced and I wouldn't touch one if every sinlge Windows PC on the planet was bathed in nuclear waste, pissed on, etc.
by Yelonde June 8, 2009 3:14 PM PDT
@ lerianis3

"I wouldn't touch one if every sinlge Windows PC on the planet was bathed in nuclear waste, pissed on, etc."

So you wouldn't touch a mac if every single windows PC on the planet was bathed in nuclear waste and pissed on? What is wrong with you?

For your information, if Windows PCs were to have comparable hardware and software (imovie, idvd, iweb, iphoto, garage-band), that pc would be substantially more expensive than any mac, you realize this, yes?
by PPD4195 June 8, 2009 8:43 PM PDT
@Yelonde

I am the proud owner of a brand spankin' new MBP...love it. It will take a lot to get me back to any other brand of laptop.

That being said, all the programs you mentioned have similar, very will built counterparts that you can get for free or dang near close to it off the net.

Macboys need to stop using the argument that PC's end up being as expensive as Macs after this, that or the other. They don't. We buy our Macs because they're the most well built, well integrated and well designed machines there are. And they look fantastic.

If you can't afford a Mac...bummer for you. It doesn't make your $972 dollar Dell any better.
by medezark June 9, 2009 3:47 AM PDT
@Yelond -- Wrong!! I can buy a PC with better hardware specs than a Mac, load it with equivalent OS/Freeware software (most of which outperforms and outfeatures the Apple versions) for less than purchasing a new Mac. And that's going through the retail channels. If I buy parts and build from scratch I'd blow the Mac out of the water.
by freemarket--2008 June 9, 2009 6:52 AM PDT
@mdezark: " If I buy parts and build from scratch I'd blow the Mac out of the water."

What an idiotic statement. So, your time and knowledge are worth what? Nothing? Apparently your common sense is lacking.

@PPD4195: If you can't afford a Mac...bummer for you.

Well, you can always get your jollies hanging out on message boards like Lerianis3 pouting and spouting and fuming. It must be fun, he does it so much. If he were paid just $1 per message he could probably afford a new MBP! ;-)
by Yelonde June 9, 2009 2:25 PM PDT
Ok folks, what "free" programs compare to imovie, garageband, iDVD, or iWeb? None whatsoever. The only programs that compare to these ones are ones you pay for. And no, movie maker is NOTHING compared to imovie. Let me give you a load-down.

an $800 PC laptop vs a $1200 macbook.

Add $140 for premiere elements = iMovie
Add $130 for Ravisent = iDVD
Add $70 for Mixcraft = Garageband
Add $200 for Contribute = iWeb

Now, the pc probably only has home premium. Considering that OSX is fully featured, and not limited to "home" versions, lets add windows vista ultimate on top of that for $110

That pc is now worth $1450, $250 more than the macbook that comes with the same hardware, and comparable programs.

And once again, I have never seen any free programs other than picassa for iphoto that even compare to the rest of the iLife suite. Hardwarewise, the PC is cheaper. But, software/hardwarewise, the mac will always be cheaper.
by therealgeeves June 8, 2009 3:26 PM PDT
I bought a new laptop today, 30minutes after they went on sale. weeee!
It runs Windows, + OS X :)
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by js995 June 8, 2009 3:41 PM PDT
This...this is so awesome. I really can't wait until they release SL!
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by June 8, 2009 4:01 PM PDT
I think the argument that Unix and Linux are only more secure because they're used less is a little bit silly. While I agree that there is some credibility to it, you also have to realise that Unix has been running on major targets that are highly prized by hackers for nearly 40 years. Banks, stock exchanges, and major enterprise systems have long used Unix or Unix derivatives for years in the worlds most powerful computing systems. In the latest listing of the worlds top super computers the top ten are all using some variant of Unix. Governments, major universities, and giant corporations have poured billions and billions into security research over time into the Unix platform. So, I believe that Unix systems such as AIX, BSD, and Solaris do have some major security advantages over Windows and it's not because of obscurity. Being based on BSD, OSX can also take advantage of this research. In the past Apple has failed to fix known security issues with OSX even when a fix was readily available, but I do believe that if security started to become a real issue on OSX Apple would quickly bridge the gap. Unix is inherently more secure because of its original design model and because of the amount of research that has surrounded it. Microsoft is catching up, but they've still got a ways to go.
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by wheelie207 June 8, 2009 4:11 PM PDT
BogusBasin, you need to get your facts right. First, windows has problems and windows won't fix the holes until a few months later and linux fixes their holes in less than a week or even a day later, and when it comes to OS X, they don't have virus problems or spyware, malware troubles because they are based on unix. Have you seen or heard any major problems with unix systems.
If OS X has a break through for something new, its a big deal. Another thing is there are lots of mac owners out there.
I haven't seen or heard much good out of windows in years since windows 3.1 ...
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by Gadget70 June 8, 2009 9:43 PM PDT
@wheelie207
BogusBasin got you! He's a Mac dude playing a Windows dude pretending to be a LInux dude.
by C433Z June 8, 2009 4:20 PM PDT
All I can say is that I've been using XP for years with only 'AVG Free' (I repeat, Free) and haven't experienced any problems or slow downs. AVG (on top of being free) runs nicely in the background and I don't notice it.

And don't knock Win7 till ya've tried it, my dad put the RC1 on his old machine and it's really nice!
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by tipoo_ June 8, 2009 5:10 PM PDT
AVG is pretty awesome.
by tm_anon June 8, 2009 10:36 PM PDT
For both of you, scan your machine with Avira AntiVir, notice how many pieces of malware AVG free misses.

As for real life experience to back me up, my ex roommate had a PC running XP with AVG free, mine at the time was running XP with Avira AntiVir. His mysteriously stopped being able to update any virus definitions automatically. One day, while he was off to work, I uninstalled AVG free, installed Avira AntiVir, still couldn't update automatically so I just ran a scan, found 30 pieces of malware.

Now, it could've been a lot worse. It could have had hundreds of pieces of malware instead of the 30. Still, AVG isn't nearly as great as you think it is.
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